a new understanding of today, time and space.

Listen 75, please.

I know You will not. And I would not want to either to express the extent of which You’ve grabbed my attention.
You must be far Younger then I imagined .

Please listen. There is a god who can not physically help us because IT is also a spiritual being.

You must not believe that evolution not coalesced with the body and mind and soul and the spirit as well.

Its just that interaction is cyclical, just as is life. It never stops , ever, it continues for ever in a timeless void of which some have inkling. That is so hard to believe . is as hard as the breaking heart of a child who is told there is no Santa Clause

If people stopped believing in Santa, it would terminate the epoch that commemarated Christianity, which dictates positive feelings of carrying our crosses, that we can all share.

The development of this philosophical tradition is really of inestimable value,
and it’s surfacing out of the nothingness of human consciousness is a miracle really, however interpreted.

You must have had a beautiful mother and maybe a non caring father.and no caring brothers as well.

If you don’t believe in love per se, try believing in mine, toward You, a perfect stranger.

God be with You and atixl around for at.least.one person You could lovr and who may also love You for who You are.

If not, love Yourself as I tried to love , because me too feel such a failed soul, but don’t let the erosion of faith of a.20 year.old. child soul over come that, which is yet to come

Yes I like Nietzsche from the time I was in my twenties and he was.my sole mate.

Cheers.and God bless.

It may be I am way off the mark, but not by much.

The basic question of modernity is sum up with one sentence…

Upon what standard are we to judge the world?

Individual… personal standards or society/collective
standards?

and which personal/individual standards should we choose?
and which society/collective standards should we choose?

We are offered, literally, hundreds of different individual
standards…from Christian to existentialist to scientific to
ancient to modern………

and we are offered dozens of different collective standards,
which is a listing of the various ism’s and ideologies we have
at our disposal… communism, democracy, monarchy, anarchy…
political and economic standards…

and can we mix and match our individual and our collective
standards? yes……

so upon the hundreds of possible standards available to you…
which standards are your standards?

but perhaps the question can be asked differently, what are your values
and then what standards work for the values you decide upon?

the path has always been pick the standards/the different ism’s and ideologies
then pick your values within those standards…… but I say unto you…
pick your values… be it strength or happiness or love or charity or knowledge…
then and only then pick your ism’s and ideologies that match your values……

what values speak to you and then choose the ism/ideologies that match those values…

let the values decide upon your choices, do not let the ism’s and ideologies choose
your values………

so what standards are you going to choose? the question is really what
values are you going to choose and allow that to help you make
your choices……

Kropotkin

I watch Dr. Zhivago the other night… great film…
anyway, there is a point where after Zhivago is taken
by the communist partisans and there is a meeting where
the military people try to allow Zhivago to leave but the
man from the party makes Zhivago stay… his statement
goes something like this…

“we are all to be judge, but not judge by our military records, for
they don’t matter and won’t count, no, we are to be judge politically,
that is the only way we are going to be judge, politically”

which is an interesting point… to judge people only politically means
that the people who get judge are the ones who get judge by the political
people…in other words, the party is the only one who gets to judge…
no other factors are involved… when you judge people based on
the very narrow criteria of what is in you own best interest…

so for example, we Americans decide to judge people based
on money by people with money… it is in those wealthy people
interest to force people to be judge by money because wealthy people
have a lot of money and it is in their best interest to be judge by
something they have a lot of… selfish interest demands you get
people to judge other people based on something you have…
if I have a lot of something, I want the judgement to be about that
something…because I have a lot of it and I will look better being judged…

so the value we judge people is money which fits nicely with actual
wealthy people because they get judge better because they are already
wealthy…

so, what if we were to judge people based on humor… we would judge
people with humor higher then people without…well that suddenly
lowers or demeans wealthy people but raises funny people…and so
funny people rise in status in America and because of that, funny people
want and will continue to allow status to be determined by their
ability to be funny and by no other value…

so, where in my job, the values that are rewarded are punctuality…
we are constantly being reminded to clock in on time, both at the
start of the shift and at lunch and going home…practically every
single day, at the time clock there is a notice about clocking in and out
at the right time…

there is no mention of any values outside of that… the only two
things I can be fired for is stealing and insubordination… and those
are the other two values that are punished or rewarded for that matter…

it is irrelevant or unimportant if we are nice or kind or fair or just or
funny or any other human trait… these traits are not relevant to my job
or to work……. I am not valued for being honest, I can be fired for stealing,
but that that is for stealing from the company… the company actually couldn’t
care less if we steal from the costumers, which we don’t because the checkers
are actually honest… but honesty as a value is not preached or rewarded…

so what values should people have? should people be honest or kind or nice
or punctual or fair or just or mean or boring… or…….

if you could legislate values, what values would you require people to have?

now it might be that you think that the situation demands certain values…
for example in wartime, the value of love and kindness and charity
are not useful values but hate, anger and violence are values worth having…
during wartime………

regarding people who deal with money… you would want honesty as a value
but not someone who disregards the rules involving money… someone who
casual handles money to the point of losing money…

to judges, you want someone who understand what justice is
and how to apply the law fairly to people… each profession
and each situation requires different values to be applied
the same value cannot work in the different professions or
in different situations………

now think of all the possible values and their are hundreds if not thousands of
possible values, which value would seem to be appropriate to the majority of
situations? so love is a powerful value and justified in a lot of situations but
love is not appropriate in every situation or in every job…think of a value
that would have the widest practical use in situations or in a career…

the one value I can think of that would have the widest application for
situations or job is justice, which I have defined as equality… for justice
applied is really justice applied equally to everyone… justice is equality……
and that is the value I believe fits into the largest number of situations or jobs
we encountered in our daily lives…….

so what value/values do you believe is right or necessary for most situations or jobs?

Kropotkin

I have tried to understand our time period, our modern times
or if you wish, our post modern times…………

as I have thought about and studied and wrote about where
we are right now… a common thread has appeared… that of
meaning… if there is one commonality of life right now, it
involves in our meaning, what does it mean to exist in 2019?

what does it mean to be human right now…

I am old enough to have grown up with the “American dream”…
the goal was to grow up and have a nice house in the suburbs
with a white picket fence and two cars, two kids and a dog and cat…

as a kid, you were expected to work hard to get into a “prime” collage which
then allowed you to get some high paying job in which you worked for 40
years and then you retired and collected an excellent pension living our your
golden years with respect and dignity……….that was the “American dream”……

but from where I sit… this fantasy life of the “American dream” has no meaning,
it has no value… I don’t see the point of working for 40 years to get a crappy
retirement where I must choose between medicine and food…

the Modern world has no meaning… it is as simple as that…….

there is no point to follow the American dream because it leads nowhere,
goes nowhere, has no meaning………

that is what is lacking in this “Modern” age and that is meaning……
the old forms, the old ism’s and ideologies have failed to give our lives
meaning…… go through the old forms… going to an excellent university to
get an education to get a “good” job…………more training to become a worker…
nothing more… that is the “modern” definition of education… training workers…
that education hasn’t shown us how to become better human beings or to become
wiser or to gain knowledge that can actually mean something to us………

no, we are trained to be workers and the media and state “programs”
us to spend our days buying useless trinkets, to become consumers…

there is no point, no meaning to our current existence outside of breeding
more workers and more consumers……….

the modern experience is empty, nihilistic, without any meaning or hope…
and that is what is lacking today…… to have some point, some meaning to
our existence……

I have tried to create some meaning by working out some possibilities for
human beings…….ART is an example of us trying to use ART to create
some possibilities, some meaning in our lives…what other possibilities
exists for us? we reject the modern ideal of living life by being
a worker and consumer……….in fact, we could begin by rejecting
the entire “modern” experience from the university which only goal
is to train high end workers to high school which is to train low end workers…
and we can reject the “Modern” idea that we can find meaning in the
buying an selling of any goods… it is no longer about trying to create
a “comfortable” life with houses and cars and 401K plans……….
those things hide the fact that we live empty lives fuel by
empty lies and empty promises…………

the modern question is simple… how do I find meaning in this modern life?

where does one find meaning in the midst of all the lies and empty promises
that we get every day… buy our product and become irresistible to the opposite
sex… buy our product and rocket through to become CEO live large…

the answer, the true answer lies in both us and, and in something outside of us…

we find ourselves in our relationship with others… the DU, we cannot find out
who we are without acting and reacting with others… we simply cannot……

we human beings have qualities… qualities like love and honor and justice
and charity… but we must learn and practice those qualities with others…
we cannot love without another… we cannot be just without others…
we cannot practice charity without others…… to become who we are means
we must, must engage with others…… by myself, I can only get so far with
being human… to reach my full possibilities as human, I need others…
but our current reality, our current ism and ideologies don’t allow us to
engage with other human beings in an honest and open dialogue as to what
it means to be human…… because we must view others has “competition”
for the limited resources that are available and that we need… my co-worker
can take the pay raise I need… so I must treat them as the “competition”
and until we lose that “reality” that others are the “competition”, we
cannot begin the journey to real wisdom……….

it is this idea of a zero sum universe is where we first begin to fail…
we can must reject a universe where we think that one person’s
gain is another person’s loss…… we must rethink of the universe as
a place where it is possible for everyone to gain… if we rethink
what it means to be human…… the goal doesn’t have to be to
make as money as possible regardless of the cost to ourselves or to
others…….no, the goal becomes non economic and more about the
path we must take to become human… for any journey of discovery
is about more then just us, it is about everyone and our relationship we have
with everyone………it is relationships that we must focus on, not losses or gains…
among others things……. the path to being human is a long path…

Kropotkin

and the value of someone like Kant or Nietzsche?

they tried to create meaning in our modern world…

Kant tried to create meaning by making existence about self determination…
the enlightenment ideal of no longer being held hostage by the old
idea’s, the old authorities like the church, the state, the bible, Aristotle…

become free of the old authorities… that was the enlightenment goal
as it was Kan’ts as well… his entire philosophy is about finding meaning
in the world…

and Nietzsche? his idea of the ubermensch and the eternal return both
existed for Nietzsche as part of the meaning of the universe…

Nietzsche idea was to create meaning without any reference to god or
any metaphyiscal idea…how do we find meaning in a secular world?

that was Nietzsche problem and to a great extent, that is also our
problem… how do we find meaning?

so… how do we?

Kropotkin

you don’t mind occasionally a stab of pedantry or comic amusement, but I wholehardly approve of Your comments here and have a very very difficult time with it, the sadly faded 1960’s remind me a quote loosely described a Saturday night in this lost America of the lost soul where everybody everybody feverishly is going somewhere , but really nowhere.
It is the air conditioned nightmare of the ugly American, who’s darkness is at noon, the hottest time in this heart of darkness , where so many gifted took their life, Hart crane coming back, coming back from Cuba the last time, the same cuba which drove Hemingway to madness, and his daughter by consequence, husband of Caresse Crosby expatriate grandson of international banker and black sun publisher , where Ginsburg said all the best minds of our generation driven mad, what else is new ?

We striving and starving expressionist of the 21 st century need more then an occasional bread crumb like the New Deal giving paltry soup kitchen handouts.

Most having the suburban house with 2 kids andn2 cars and looking toward their golden years had it in the sixties so close yet so far, nestling in their most cherished absolute minimalism:

That of the promise of otherwise perfectly legit users of modern versions of absenthe, the coke infused in that well established product, of the acid test of kesey, of Huxley’ s indulgence with magic and the shrooms and the grand vision of even that noble Dylan whose Nobel prize people noblesse oblige the valuables lost therein , thereby.

K. you said a few months ago I’m always welcome here. Well here it goes.

We’ve got soul man, along with the noble savages, those whose blues captured the universal soul, but sold out man. Sold out to the commercial system, big time, the monkees were among the first the pitiful tv show that bought into the American dream.

And what that is? The golden arch like the one at the end of the yellow brick road, promising a very neat and hygienic funeral, with a minimum of inconceniemce and pain to all those who have been unable to settle into the mystical meaning that which is base to the nihilistic posture . as though it is a sort of chronically manifested revival show, in a kind of circus held briefly by the owner of city lights , a light captured only by some who can make s mountaintop into their comfort space.

No. Coming back from the chocolate steppe of Asia, shared by a Catholic priest in his Asian journals , highlights omitting scenes such as:

A new practice of snatching children , one an old woman apprehended in the knick of time, ( and this addressed only to pure heart spiritualist to whine fame and fortune has become as opaque as that through which darkly is still a shemantic option, au-vigour), she tries to snap the baby so that, so that, within her convoluted mind she still, secularized Catholic( where Jesus warned about harming babies),
snatching kids become a commercial enterprise, slitting their bodies open while alive, and removing valuable transplanteable organs , kidneys going for 200M, lungs, livers , you name it, and then retain the nerve of attending holy mass on Sunday.

Probably without confession.

This description for only one purpose, to compare it with the American dream.

The choice is not difficult, albeit extreme.

The 60’s sellout really fortifies the connection between east and western values also approaching another absolute, that consisting within the vagrancies of their one time equivolence of the loss of the soul.

all those things you complain about in that second to last post would not be so augmented if the world was rid of the unproductive and parasitic class… and that’s going to be a long arduous war, comrade pete. but to imagine a world in which we aren’t required to work is preposterous. it is only because of the presence of this parasitic class of people that those who do produce live so miserably, e.g., your having to choose between food and medicine in your retirement. therefore it would be misguided to pass sentence on the whole of life and declare unequivocally that having to work ‘really sucks’. it doesn’t suck, it just sucks at the moment because you’re having to carry the dead weight of the unproductive class.

here’s a sneak-peak at the furture:

anti-dialectics.co.uk/AAA_Socialist_Economy.htm

but like i said, it’s gonna take some time. the parasite class will not go quietly into the night (or the toilet, if you prefer). but we’re experiencing a major shift in the zeitgeist right now, bro. all these democratic forces are slowly dismantling the old system and waking the people out of their slumber. we let the democrats do the dirty work, and when the republicans are finally destroyed, we flush the democrats down the toilet right behind em. then we will finally be rid of that political circus we have been passively watching for centuries.

vow, what an optimist 75, Your minemalization on 30 away from K’s favorite 45!

Dig this:

Those awful Republican usurpers know well how to take hostage of all those supposed middle classes who by now, simple toddler Nuevo Richie millionaires , perfectly right minded folks like Beverly hillbilies , good church going and god fearing folks who the supra wealth know , will go down with them.

But dear ol’ Liz, bless her heart the love and icon of so many, can eternally quoted for saying: " But it’s Really Happening".(Who’s Afraid of Virginia Wolf)

As pre figured estimations go , the numbers make clear the realization that when they go down, we go down with them.

The new era.can be encapsulated in the idea of socialism for the extreme wealth while capitalizing on and for labor.

now look what you’ve done. you’ve inspired me to re-write the ballad of jed clampett.

click here and begin singing:

Come and listen to a story about a man named Jed
the poor motherfucker barely kept his family fed
Then one day he was shootin at some food
And up through the ground come a trump in the nude

naked that is, no clothes on, birthday suit.

Well the first thing you know jed shot the billionaire
the kinfolk said ‘jed take em over there!’
Said the pig pen is the place he oughta be
So they loaded up the trump and they moved him carefully

gently, that is. didn’t drop em, real slow.

Well now its time to say hooray for Jed and all his kin
cause’ mr. trump the piece of shit won’t bother them again
You’re all invited back next week to jed’s community
where you can get a plate of food and medical for free

no cost, that is. fully insured. not outrageously priced.

Y’all come back now, y’hear?


I must say it’s inspirational how you found a place for the Clampetts right nextdoor to your own.

Mr. Drysdale: The people who lived there were my best friends and neighbors for over 20 years. I’m really going to miss them.

Jane Hathaway: It’s a shame they had to file for bankruptcy and had to sell the place.

Mr. Drysdale: I know. I’d hate to think that my phone call to the IRS had anything to do with it.

I understand both your post, Meno and 75, but to be
honest, I suspect we are different places along the path…

I am closer to the end of the road and both of you are somewhere
in the young adult path…

in a roundabout way, I am asking the question, did or does or will my life
have meaning?

our understanding of the meaning of our lives is profoundly different given
the political and/or economic systems in place during our lives… my life
would have had a different meaning if I had lived during the Roman times or
during the middle ages. The different political and economic systems create
different meanings in our lives, but that is not the only meaning we might or will have…

I exist as a human being living in 2019 and I can do no other…
so what does that mean? and that is the question…

I share certain traits with all other life… I am transitory…
life is transitory… the cells/atoms in my body have been around
since the big bang and will continue to exists to the end of time…
all the while those atoms will become part of all manner of things,
from dogs to cats to birds to grass to fish in the sea…

when we die, we begin to decompose, in that decomposition, the atoms
begin their transition to some other matter………. and so goes the chain
of life…….and I ask, how does the transitory nature of life answer the question,
the question of the meaning of life?

Kropotkin

If you won’t sing it then I will, meno. Somebody’s gotta do it.

vocaroo.com/i/s1X3cIP2XFrL

Glad for You beating me to the punch bowl, but deservedly of believing in numbers means anything, take a look at my Trump takes the stage narrative
#74047, hey can You figure ? Plus 400 views . whaaat?

If it’s changed you’re too late.
But really it stands out almost demonically.

time .11:10 pm PST

It’s just changed by one. (If You follow numbers)


and I ask, how does the transitory nature of life answer the question,
the question of the meaning of life?

Kropotkin

Best approximation in the time allotted. Or, by reversing the flow, and see if time shortens as it travels backward (looking back), as it appears to shorten moving forward.

And if it doesent, why not, and can You change that, without loosing Your sense, mind, relationships.

Don’t recommend it to every/any 1.

But, seriously, life is not only recaptured as a film, but it can be run slower, and back wards as well. Without actually demonstrating that, because the simulation will become overtly actual, try it metaphorically, so as not to appear as though individual frames and actions within form backward and obvious looking movements. That may give an inkling, and verify a lot of thinkers , first and foremost Heidegger , Heraclitus and Parmenedies before him, unwittingly skipping Husserl and don’t yet ask me why.

first of all that’s one of those existentialist party slogans that’s responsible for getting philosophers all fucked up in the head and up all night. ‘does my life have meaning’ isn’t even a real question. what do you mean ‘does your life have meaning’? are you asking a specific question about some aspect of your life? you gotta narrow that question down some or every philosopher in a ten block radius that hears it will go nuts with it and you won’t get a sensible answer from any of em.

well we got three possibilities. eternal life in some magical realm, total annihilation, or… and this one’s my favorite… a repetition of everything over and over and over again. now there’s no plausible evidence for the first option, a shit load of plausible evidence for the second option, and a little plausible evidence for the third option. the good news is, with the elimination of the first option, there’s no way you can lose. so, if it’s curtains after you die, you’d not be around to know it and therefore wouldn’t be able to suffer it. and if there’s some kind of repetition, you get to do the whole thing again, which means you’d get to talk to me again, and that alone is enough to justify a life.

but you have be ready for total oblivion. you gotta think long and hard about your death and get your head right, because it just might be a one-shot deal, peter.

meanwhile, old people should spend the last half of their life putting all their energy into their family, especially their children (if they have any). you want to try to live vicariously through them, stay close to them (unless you hate em), involve yourself in everything they do, and give your elder wisdom as guidance. you want to say things like ‘no, fuck no, are you retarded, don’t do that! i did that once and let me tell you… it did not work out,’ and ‘yes, that’s a smart choice, and here’s why: [insert wisdom].’

old people have a very high rank in the family, or should, and with that comes great responsibility as well as privilege. but really, at your age you’re supposed to enjoy yourself. what about hobbies? got any hobbies?

As noted our modern ism’s and ideologies such as communism
and capitalism and Catholicism, all exist outside of our control…
we are victims of each in the fact we have no choice in the
grand movement of those ism’s… in communism, we exist
within the grand sweep of history in which we can only watch
as historical materialism, which is a broad force of history
works out our personal and collective fate, all of which is outside
of our personal ability to control……. individually, we are victims
of these broad forces, not having any means to control or change these
forces… the same exists for capitalism, whereas our individual fate
is determined by that “invisible hand” of broad market forces that we
have no control over… victims once again of forces outside of our control
or any ability to change…….but there are other forces outside of our control
in which we have no control over or any ability to change… we have modern
technology… do you have any control over all these new technologies?
who among us actually understand how our cars work or how the computer
works? Not that many…these modern forces of technology exists
outside of our control and our ability to change…just like those ism’s
and ideologies of capitalism and communism…do you have any control
or ability to change anything that exists in our “modern” world? no, not really…
the political system has been bought and sold as our individual congressmen
and senators have been bought by big money and big business like big pharma
and the Cock brothers and the NRA… do you have any say or influence given
the money now flowing into politics? no, of course not……
so once again we see the average person having no control over or
any ability to change our political or economic or social structure of
the modern world…….

modern man is competently powerless to control any aspect of their lives…
we are victims of our “modern” world which has taken away any chance we
have to change, affect, direct or move people or events in the modern world……

Now how can I personally have any meaning when I have zero control over
any aspect of my life? I cannot change or control any part of my economic,
political or social life……… life is what happens to me… not what I do to life…
the technology already exists to put me out of a job… we can easily have
stores with no need for cashiers or baggers… the only thing saving me is
the fact I shall have already retired or died before the new technology
destroys an entire industry…and I have absolutely no control over this…
it will happen regardless of how I approve or disapprove or even feel about it…
it is not a question of if, it is a question of when will my job of being a cashier disappears…

and this is the modern world writ small… events outside of my control and my
ability to affect will completely change my life and not for the better…

the large, grand scale forces that are beyond my control changing and dominating
my life without any input from me… it will just happen and there isn’t a dam
thing I can do about it……… and that is in essence, modern life… forces changing
and impacting us without any input or response from us… it will just happen and
we can only respond to it………….and that response will be pretty meaningless because
no one will be able to hear it in the midst and confusion of all that white noise
of society…

so, once again, I ask, how do I find meaning in this modern age?

those broad and all encompassing forces of our modern times,
in the midst of all those forces, how do I find meaning?

forces I have no control over and forces I cannot affect……

and we engage with these broad forces we have no control over
by wondering if someone has a “hobby”? such a irrelevant question…
given the how unimportant our lives have become in this modern world…
can we have any meaning in the broad forces like the “invisible hand of god”
that dominate capitalism or the “historical materialism” that dominates
communism or the plan that god has for all of us to lead us to the final days
of judgment… we are irrelevant in the midst of forces we have no say over
and we cannot control…… in the midst of that irrelevancy, how can I find meaning?

I would have better luck trying to stop the earth from circling the sun then
finding some relevancy in our modern world…….

is Voltaire right? should we just be content with taking care of our own garden
and leave the business of life to outside forces we have no say over and no
control over? is withdrawing into ourselves an answer? we see millions of
our fellow human beings have already taken that course…
anyone who says, a pox on both houses has already withdrawn into
themselves, into their own garden……

and in our modern, secular world, I don’t see how we can find meaning in
such impersonal forces like religion or god…………

so, what is left? do we retreat into ourselves, into our fixation on
celebrity news or our passion into our own personal field of hobbies
or sports or TV or drugs or booze? so many have left the field of
battle, left the outside world for small personal goals… which is
why millions fail to vote every election… they have given up trying to
change or influence or having a say in matters that dominate their lives…
the impersonal forces of capitalism and bought and sold politicians
have millions of people abandoning life and retiring their own
personal garden…

and once again I ask, how do I find meaning in the midst of all this?

Kropotkin

in addition to the above, I left/forget about other forces we
have no control over, evolution, physics, biological, astronomic… forces
of which we have no say over and no ability to control… we cannot control
the natural forces of physics or biology or astronomy… we cannot change
what evolution has done to us and we cannot change what is happening in
the stars and we cannot change the forces of physics…… these are just
another brick in the wall in terms of forces that we have no say over
and we cannot control…….we cannot control gravity or space or time
and we have no say or control over………

now combine these forces with all the other forces I mentioned in the last post……

and once again, how do I meaning given all the forces in the universe that I
have no control over and have no say over?

Kropotkin