Venture wrote: I have repented, you have not.
How can you know this as a fact?
If you cannot show that, then why should I bother with you when you either lie or are living in your mind reader's fantasy world?
Regards
DL
Moderator: Dan~
Venture wrote: I have repented, you have not.
felix dakat wrote:A Shieldmaiden wrote:A Shieldmaiden wrote:
Greatest wrote:
You ignore that most sages,
including Jesus, had one line for the sheeple and another secret one for the apostles.
Where in the scriptures does it say the above?
Chapter and verse please.
.
Have you learned what Jesus and your bible teaches? I am responding to this question you wrote.
Humour me, show me where in the scriptures including Jesus, "had one line for the sheeple and another secret one for the apostles".
Whenever someone tells you the Bible say this or that and you are not familiar with the verse, the simplest solution is ask to be shown where it is.
So in my ignorance I am asking you to show me. Simple. I don't profess to know the Scriptures that well and I am curious and eager to learn more.
Here's one example:
Mark 4:10-12 New King James Version (NKJV)
But when He [i.e.Jesus] was alone, those around Him with the twelve asked Him about the parable. And He said to them, “To you it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside, all things come in parables, so that
‘Seeing they may see and not perceive,
And hearing they may hear and not understand;
Lest they should turn,
And their sins be forgiven them.’ ”
Greatest I am wrote:bahman wrote:Greatest I am wrote:Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?
The Bible teaches one to start a spiritual journey from the
bottom, i.e. from a stage where he must consider himself as a born sinner and starts his journey upwards from there. One reaches the second stage when he realises that he is the son and God is his father. The final realisation is when he realises that he and the Father are one.
...
It is impossible that man and father become one unless you lose your sense of identity, self-awareness.
I agree.
That is why when Jesus ascended, that happened in his own mind and not in any physical or miraculous way, he took the judgment seat which basically retires God and is Jesus taking full command.
If you do not like thinking in those esoteric allegorical way, think in terms of you finding what Yung and Freud dubbed the Father Complex, --- which is basically you finding the roots of your instincts, and in a sense, since they are given to you genetically by your parents, you become the Father or Mother you find within you.
Regards
DL
bahman wrote:[
It is impossible that man and father become one unless you lose your sense of identity, self-awareness.
Greatest I am wrote:You do not die. Your thinking changes.
That is why it is described as gaining a Christ consciousness or being reborn with a Christ mind.
Joseph Campbell would call it growing into an adult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU
Regards
DL
bahman wrote:Greatest I am wrote:You do not die. Your thinking changes.
That is why it is described as gaining a Christ consciousness or being reborn with a Christ mind.
Joseph Campbell would call it growing into an adult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGx4IlppSgU
Regards
DL
So we become similar?
Gloominary wrote:The Abrahamic religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) are dualistic (not in the Platonic, Gnostic or Cartesian sense), in that they divide existence in two, the uncreated creator, and the created, whereas the Vedic and Sinic religions (Hinduism, Buddhism and Daoism) are (dialectically) monistic.
The creator makes the cosmos, and man in his likeness, but man is still fundamentally distinct from, and inferior to the creator.
I don't know why devotees of eastern philosophy insist on imposing alien concepts onto Judeo-Christian and Islamic thought.
It's tantamount to reverse cultural appropriation.
I don't know, religious studies would be boring if they were all saying basically the same thing. Some religions don't believe in God, or even the soul, like Buddhism. I think the only thing they may all share is that if they don't believe in the supernatural, they at least believe in some higher plane of understanding one can attain.
Venture wrote:Maybe the secret was the first-hand experience of miracles being performed. Otherwise, we take it as parable and metaphor, a consequence of living a life of forgiveness and love.
Greatest tells me I lie or believe in a fake mind reader world. You could have said yes or no, but instead you attacked me personally for claiming you haven't repented. I'm sorry.
They know the mystery because they were there with Him in person. You think it is a deeper parable about an inward becoming of Jesus, that you can become like a God and perform miracles. I have had trouble becoming like Jesus because of my vices of money lust, sexuality obfuscating my relationships, and doing too much or too little of things like drugs, travelling, or eating. You would be lying if you told me you are of a different breed, someone who has no passions for attaining worldly temporary pleasures.
For gloomy, lets keep Judeo-Christian traditions separate from the rest, especially Islam. I see Judaism as dualistic at times, and Christianity as a three in one religion. The rest in the west are divergences amongst number, science, and political deception. I'd love to learn more about Buddhism and Tao, but in small doses with my study of Biblical languages, history, and archaeology. The supernatural has been a way to explain away what we don't know, and a higher plane of understanding is attempting to explain the pareto distribution applied to information and knowledge, that only a few will be the smartest and claim wisdom.
A Shieldmaiden wrote:Felix and Greatest
Jesus said, Mark 4:11 “Unto you, it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to them,” the rebellious, the wicked, “that are without, that these things are done in parables. That seeing they might see and not perceive and hearing, they might hear and not understand.”
Why did Jesus use parables?
In Mark 4 verse 11 and 12, Jesus is saying that he is teaching in parables so that the people may understand, to make it as simple as it can be to teach the truth.
The article on Parables in Smith's Bible Dict. explains this very clearly.
The parable differs from the fable (1) in excluding brute and inanimate creatures passing out of the laws of their nature and speaking or acting like men; (2) in its higher ethical significance. It differs from the allegory in that the latter, with its direct personification of ideas or attributes, and the names which designate them, involves really no comparison. The virtues and vices of mankind appear as in a drama, in their own character and costume. The allegory is self-interpreting; the parable demands attention, insight, sometimes an actual explanation. It differs from a proverb in that it must include a similitude of some kind, while the proverb may assert, without a similitude, some wide generalization of experience.--ED.) For some months Jesus taught in the synagogues and on the seashore of Galilee as he had before taught in Jerusalem, and as yet without a parable. But then there came a change. The direct teaching was met with scorn unbelief hardness, and he seemed for a time to abandon it for that which took the form of parables. The worth of parables as instruments of teaching lies in their being at once a test of character and in their presenting each form of character with that which, as a penalty or blessing, is adapted to it. They withdraw the light from those who love darkness. They protect the truth which they enshrine from the mockery of the scoffer. They leave something even with the careless which may be interpreted and understood afterward. They reveal on the other hand, the seekers after truth. These ask the meaning of the parable, and will not rest until the teacher has explained it. In this way the parable did work, found out the fit hearers and led them on. In most of the parables it is possible to trace something like an order.
A Shieldmaiden wrote:Felix and Greatest
Jesus said, Mark 4:11 “Unto you, it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to them,” the rebellious, the wicked, “that are without, that these things are done in parables. That seeing they might see and not perceive and hearing, they might hear and not understand.”
Why did Jesus use parables?
In Mark 4 verse 11 and 12, Jesus is saying that he is teaching in parables so that the people may understand, to make it as simple as it can be to teach the truth.
The article on Parables in Smith's Bible Dict. explains this very clearly.
The parable differs from the fable (1) in excluding brute and inanimate creatures passing out of the laws of their nature and speaking or acting like men; (2) in its higher ethical significance. It differs from the allegory in that the latter, with its direct personification of ideas or attributes, and the names which designate them, involves really no comparison. The virtues and vices of mankind appear as in a drama, in their own character and costume. The allegory is self-interpreting; the parable demands attention, insight, sometimes an actual explanation. It differs from a proverb in that it must include a similitude of some kind, while the proverb may assert, without a similitude, some wide generalization of experience.--ED.) For some months Jesus taught in the synagogues and on the seashore of Galilee as he had before taught in Jerusalem, and as yet without a parable. But then there came a change. The direct teaching was met with scorn unbelief hardness, and he seemed for a time to abandon it for that which took the form of parables. The worth of parables as instruments of teaching lies in their being at once a test of character and in their presenting each form of character with that which, as a penalty or blessing, is adapted to it. They withdraw the light from those who love darkness. They protect the truth which they enshrine from the mockery of the scoffer. They leave something even with the careless which may be interpreted and understood afterward. They reveal on the other hand, the seekers after truth. These ask the meaning of the parable, and will not rest until the teacher has explained it. In this way the parable did work, found out the fit hearers and led them on. In most of the parables it is possible to trace something like an order.
Karpel Tunnel wrote:To me the issue of the parables is moot in the context of was Jesus or is the Bible or is Christianity really Gnostic.
The reason: If we follow GIA then the supernatural does not exist. Fine. But using parables to support this is extremely problematic. The parables are in the NT and the NT has reporting of miracles performed by or undergone by Jesus. They are not presented as parables. They are not parts of someone's speeches, but reported as events meant to be taken literally. If we listen to intepretations of the parables or sayings that seem to support GIA's position - iow treating the NT as an authority on Jesus - then it's authority goes against the dismissal of the supernatural also.
Greatest I am wrote:Venture wrote:Maybe the secret was the first-hand experience of miracles being performed. Otherwise, we take it as parable and metaphor, a consequence of living a life of forgiveness and love.
Greatest tells me I lie or believe in a fake mind reader world. You could have said yes or no, but instead you attacked me personally for claiming you haven't repented. I'm sorry.
They know the mystery because they were there with Him in person. You think it is a deeper parable about an inward becoming of Jesus, that you can become like a God and perform miracles. I have had trouble becoming like Jesus because of my vices of money lust, sexuality obfuscating my relationships, and doing too much or too little of things like drugs, travelling, or eating. You would be lying if you told me you are of a different breed, someone who has no passions for attaining worldly temporary pleasures.
For gloomy, lets keep Judeo-Christian traditions separate from the rest, especially Islam. I see Judaism as dualistic at times, and Christianity as a three in one religion. The rest in the west are divergences amongst number, science, and political deception. I'd love to learn more about Buddhism and Tao, but in small doses with my study of Biblical languages, history, and archaeology. The supernatural has been a way to explain away what we don't know, and a higher plane of understanding is attempting to explain the pareto distribution applied to information and knowledge, that only a few will be the smartest and claim wisdom.
I do not differentiate as you suggest and just look at both ideologies.
Both Christianity and Islam, slave holding ideologies, have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds and continue with their immoral ways in spite of secular law showing them the moral ways.
Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.
Gnostic Christians did in the past, and I am proudly continuing that tradition and honest irrefutable evaluation based on morality.
https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/theft-values/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk
Humanity centered religions, good? Yes. Esoteric ecumenist Gnostic Christianity being the best of these.
Supernaturally based religions, evil? Yes. Islam and Christianity being the worst of these.
"that you can become like a God and perform miracles."
Eh. No. I am not a brain dead theist.
Regards
DL
I think Jesus used parables because scriptures say that to perfect ones wisdom, one had to get away from Christian dogma and look elsewhere.
Hebrews 6 King James Version;
1. Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. Jesus would call Christianity and Islam abominations.
Greatest I am wrote:Karpel Tunnel wrote:To me the issue of the parables is moot in the context of was Jesus or is the Bible or is Christianity really Gnostic.
The reason: If we follow GIA then the supernatural does not exist. Fine. But using parables to support this is extremely problematic. The parables are in the NT and the NT has reporting of miracles performed by or undergone by Jesus. They are not presented as parables. They are not parts of someone's speeches, but reported as events meant to be taken literally. If we listen to intepretations of the parables or sayings that seem to support GIA's position - iow treating the NT as an authority on Jesus - then it's authority goes against the dismissal of the supernatural also.
On the literal reading of myths, I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.
https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2
Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html
Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."
Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.
"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."
Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia ... =PLCBF574D
Regards
DL
Gloominary wrote:And there were plenty of Christian writers in antiquity who took a literal approach to the bible, such as Saint Augustine.
Yes. There may be some who have different metaphysics, but the vast majority, including the vast majority of the experts within the Abrahamic religions believe this.Gloominary wrote:I'll say it again, for Christians, Jews and Muslims, God is a supernatural being, and he created the cosmos.
And there were plenty of Christian writers in antiquity who took a literal approach to the bible, such as Saint Augustine.
Are you saying that in the act of creating the cosmos God got weaker? Or are you saying that to say that God created the cosmos is to posit a weaker God than the real God?Venture wrote:Gloominary wrote:And there were plenty of Christian writers in antiquity who took a literal approach to the bible, such as Saint Augustine.
Take another look.
You reach conclusions based on your judgment of past personal experience. What kind of approach do you have to the Bible? You pose your personal approach as understanding and succeeding those in the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim tradition. Don't insult Augustine with your assumptions. I know this is difficult for you, but the creation of the cosmos limits the power of God.
It doesn't entail any particular belief in the supernatural - beyond that of believing in a transcendent being (at least in Christianity) who can do pretty much anything and is not bound by material laws. Bringing up astrology is to bring in something that is not relevant.You think that the belief in a being that created the cosmos entails a belief in the supernatural. Tell me what you see in Sagittarius and Virgo this March and get back to me.
And I wonder if I am misunderstanding you.Greatest thinks that supernatural thinking is impossible. I find this hysterical and he has conflicting premises throughout this thread. Look for it and you will find it, along with repetition and aggression. You can look for the truth yourself or rely on other people.
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