Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Forgive my ignorance and pride. I apologize for insulting you and I hope we can learn and help each other, rather than run away from the issues and resort to ad hominem.

I’ve only begun my journey inward, but I still do not agree with your idea of becoming a God. I understand, that following faith, your holiness increases with works. Your salvation is by faith, but the recognition of your goodness is a process of becoming Christlike. I want to become Christlike, but I know I can never be exactly like him or become him which you seem to think you can. Sadhguru had some interesting things to say, and I have experienced first hand the strengthening of Islam and Christianity by the sword. Good deeds don’t give you salvation, faith does, but faith without works will eventually be doubted and works without faith is hollow.

It is common to make claims towards ideology, history, and politics. I’m certain there are still Calvinists who want to rid the world of Arminians. There are Christians who want to rid the world of Muslims, and vice versa. But I have yet to see change on the individual level, of people being more loving and helpful to their communities. I see prices rise and declining self-judgment, a lack of connection to nature and honest intellectual discussion.

Ecumenism is usually ironic, I’ve yet to have a positive experience from someone claiming to be ecumenical. Christianity has the opportunity to become the superior humanity centered religion, but politics and scriptural idolatry risk its purity. Scientists who claim intellectual superiority for their atheism usually have a slave-master morality and some pride, envy, and hatred in their hearts.

Greatest wrote:

My understanding of Hebrews 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV)

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Leave the discourse of the beginning of Christ, (the more you study the scriptures the more in depth it becomes, books could be written on chapters alone) as the ‘perfection’ intended is the full growth of those who are mature in Christian knowledge and there is no need for a foundation to be laid a second time. Repentance is the first lesson of the Gospel and faith is also one of the initial steps in religious knowledge.

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

The doctrine of baptism was the teaching which enabled Christians who are receiving instructions in preparation for a baptism to discriminate between Jewish washings and Christian baptism. The laying on of hands is for ordination, (Numbers) confirmation, (Acts) healings (Mark) and in this order correspond with the system of teaching respecting them in the Acts of the Apostles - Repentance, Faith, Baptism, Confirmation, Resurrection, Judgment. Even the doctrine of the resurrection belonged to Judaism. The last eternal judgment, is that all who do not live the life, lose their inheritance in the kingdom of God along with the hypocrites and incur the same judgment as the unbelievers.

With this the rest of scripture agrees.

This is just someone claiming to be psychic.

As I have pointed out before

Origen had supernatural beliefs himself.

Rabbi Hillel - “Whoever has acquired the words of the Law has acquired the life of the world to come.” not the world now, note.

And you just backed up your position by quoting some people who, at least in the quotes, seem to agree with you.

You don’t respond to my points, but as usual repeat yourself.

Yes, I absolutely acknowledge that some Gnostics and quite a few people from other systems of belief take the Bible as mythical. Great, but the Bible does not present itself this way.

I’ll say it again, for Christians, Jews and Muslims, God is a supernatural being, and he created the cosmos.

And there were plenty of Christian writers in antiquity who took a literal approach to the bible, such as Saint Augustine.

Take another look.

You reach conclusions based on your judgment of past personal experience. What kind of approach do you have to the Bible? You pose your personal approach as understanding and succeeding those in the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim tradition. Don’t insult Augustine with your assumptions. I know this is difficult for you, but the creation of the cosmos limits the power of God. You think that the belief in a being that created the cosmos entails a belief in the supernatural. Tell me what you see in Sagittarius and Virgo this March and get back to me.

As for the others contributing, Baptism and ceremonial supper replaced all old rituals to show respect and faith in Christ. Salvation in faith and not works, although works will show the strength of your faith over time.

There are claims of being psychic in physical healing and then there are psychic claims of spiritual rebirth from those who have not experienced it and so cannot comment on it but will attempt to.

I could quote scripture all day but in this contemporary atheism, there are people who say my quoting of scripture weakens my argument.

I will avoid scripture for the sake of those absent of salvation. Read into it brethren, have fun with the depth.

Greatest thinks that supernatural thinking is impossible. I find this hysterical and he has conflicting premises throughout this thread. Look for it and you will find it, along with repetition and aggression. You can look for the truth yourself or rely on other people.

I have not learned what Jesus and the Bible have taught me, but I will.

Yes. There may be some who have different metaphysics, but the vast majority, including the vast majority of the experts within the Abrahamic religions believe this.

Gloominary wrote:

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, sanctioned by Pope John Paul II, has this to say on the issue of the changing of the Ten Commandments:

The Church, the “pillar and bulwark of the truth,” “has received this solemn command of Christ from the apostles to announce the saving truth.” “To the Church belongs the right always and everywhere to announce moral principles, including those pertaining to the social order.”

According to Roman Catholicism, moral issues are dictated by the Ten Commandments—but not the Ten Commandments as found in the Bible.
Rome’s Ten Commandments are defined by Augustine, the Catholic Church father:

The division and numbering of the Commandments have varied in the course of history. The present catechism follows the division of the Commandments established by St. Augustine, which has become traditional in the Catholic Church.

What an amazing confession!

The Ten Commandments defined by Augustine, rather than defined by Scripture, form the basis for Catholic morality.

Are you saying that in the act of creating the cosmos God got weaker? Or are you saying that to say that God created the cosmos is to posit a weaker God than the real God?

Do you believe God did not create the universe?

It doesn’t entail any particular belief in the supernatural - beyond that of believing in a transcendent being (at least in Christianity) who can do pretty much anything and is not bound by material laws. Bringing up astrology is to bring in something that is not relevant.

Supernatural is a term plagued with all sorts of metaphysical problems, but in terms of the Greatests position, and his use of supernatural, of course God, as posited in the Bible is supernatural.

But then you say this…

And I wonder if I am misunderstanding you.

I do not recall any such claim.
Please get the quote to dispel my notion of that being a lie.

Regards
DL

I tend to have to repeat to the more -----

How can or do you justify saying that the bible does not show itself as a myth, when it begins with a talking serpent and donkey, and seven headed thingamabob? :-k

Regards
DL

youtube.com/watch?v=RmD9ZWDUsNY

If the supernatural were real, then you would have to see a matrix or Mandelbrot set universe and that puts God over God over God, — endlessly. That is a Gnostic Christian theme. An argument really against the supernatural. It followed the ancient intelligentsia just as it does today.

Care to tell us what revelation turned God from an abstract for you and into a reality? When did you have your vision and apotheosis?

Regards
DL

Interesting.

It may not matter given the, what, 3 other sets of big 10 that are in the bible and likely a rendition from the Book of the Dead.

That aside. Catholic morality shoes a root of inquisitions and a dislike for freedom of religion and that puts their moral position as way below the secular.

Regards
DL

Greatest wrote:

Not quite sure what you mean. Can you explain this in more detail?

Simple. There are more than 2, I think 3, sets of commandments in scriptures. Since the originating myth of the Jewish holy books is known to be from Sumer and Egypt, it follows that the ten commandments are a rendering of the commandments in The Book of the dead. None are the same and the O.T. Jewish set is a real ball breaker. No I no longer have a link to it so you will have to confirm these facts for yourself.

Regards
DL

I had only read the Tibetan Book of the Dead. There is much discussion in my house regarding comments on this subject here on the Forum and it has taught me not to become complacent.

There are two laws.

The Law of Ten Commandments, and

The Ceremonial Law.

On Mount Sinai, Moses received both the law of God and a precise set of instructions for the sacrificial system and these were to form the basis of the religious ceremonies of the Israelites.

  1. God wrote the Ten Commandments

And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God (Exodus 31:18).

The two tables of stone were placed inside the Ark of the Covenant.

  1. Moses wrote the ceremonial law, or book of the law

This law of types and ceremonies was written by Moses in the book of the law

And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee (Deuteronomy 31:24-26)

and this was placed beside the Ark.

These two sets of laws, the one moral and the other ceremonial, were entirely different and served different purposes.

“The whole trend of the Book of the Dead is thaumaturgic, as its purpose is to guard the dead against the dangers they have to face in reaching the other world. As in most mythologies, the dead Egyptian had to encounter malignant spirits and was threatened by many dangers before reaching his haven of rest”.
Enclyopedia.com

That is paganism.

@Venture

You base yours on the Kool-Aid you’ve been drinking.

I interpret it literally, unless it explicitly tells me not to interpret a specific part literally.

From antiquity to modernity, from theologians to laymen, the Abrahamic tradition has had an overwhelmingly supernatural interpretation of the bible.

While Augustine didn’t interpret everything in the bible literally, he believed his God El created the cosmos and intervenes in man’s affairs.

No, saying he didn’t limits him.

I see groups of stars some people feel compelled to superimpose terrestrial figures and anthropocentric meaning on.

Right, exactly.

I’m an agnostic.

I’m participating in this thread to talk about what I think the bible teaches, not what I think about what I think the bible teaches.

Just because belief in the supernatural might be irrational, doesn’t mean the bible isn’t a book about the supernatural, it is.