Boycott Google

But we have to decide if we are advocating for a government to protect us or are we demonizing government in effort to escape its control?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men

If we’re advocating for a government, maybe it’s not such a great idea to attack the idea of it.

Pearl Harbor was an inside job too right? FDR and Churchill colluded somehow or another in effort to get the US into the war. I guess that cause was more noble than 9/11, but still.

Well the atheists wouldn’t.

No, they would welcome it with open arms! Hillbillies relish good ole fashioned authoritarianism. Being told what to do, telling people want to do, and having an authority to worship is right up their alley… just so long as you don’t expect them to think.

They think the pope is the antichrist; that’s about the only difference.

Is there evidence that Merkel is a liberal? She advocates rightwing taxation.

Angela Dorothea Merkel (/ˈmɜːrkəl/; German: [aŋˈɡeːla ˈmɛʁkl̩];[a] née Kasner, born 17 July 1954) is a German politician serving as Chancellor of Germany since 2005. She served as the leader of the centre-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU) from 2000 to 2018.

Oh my, another nazi LOL!

Merkel was born in Hamburg in then-West Germany and moved to East Germany as an infant when her father, a Lutheran clergyman, received a pastorate in Perleberg.

Well well…

In October 2010, Merkel told a meeting of younger members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party at Potsdam that attempts to build a multicultural society in Germany had “utterly failed”,[75] stating that: “The concept that we are now living side by side and are happy about it” does not work[76] and “we feel attached to the Christian concept of mankind, that is what defines us. Anyone who doesn’t accept that is in the wrong place here.”

Hitler said the same thing.

We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian. en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Religious … olf_Hitler

Yeah but they’ve still made a religion from it and some buddhists believe in souls, reincarnation, heaven, hell, etc. Just like christians are not anything like christ, buddhists are nothing like the buddha.

Atheists are quite different: they don’t do anything religiously, they don’t go to temples, they aren’t concerned with afterlives, and they can’t believe in objective truth.

You have to stop paying attention to labels. That’s rightwing and not progressivism.

LOL that’s funny! I suppose the terrorists conspired to pilot the planes into the towers, but what I meant by conspiracy is that the government orchestrated it or was in on it.

It’s not about believing in conspiracies, but being prone to believe in them or tending to think too many things are conspiracies. Just like any other hallucination.

It’s hard for me to relate here because evolution seems “common sense” to me, and by that I mean “readily apparent to even the dumbest person”. What makes no sense is that some fictional sky fairy poofed all species into existence from nothing.

I can look at a cat skeleton and see eons of honing and refinements that went into making it perfectly adapted for its purpose and in no way does it appear “made”.

Apologists appeal to the “fine-tuning argument” to support creation, but to me the fine-tuning is a result of iterations (evolution). Nothing in nature is a round number; it’s always some oddball number that doesn’t indicate design in any way. 365.25 days in a year. God couldn’t get it perfect? Or did he try to make it look non-designed?

Idk what you’re driving at here. Are you saying morons have a window to the world that smart people don’t have?

All I’m saying is that any group of smart people assembled will always have a higher proportion of liberals than conservatives. Does it mean liberalism is correct? No, but it means conservatives are stupid. Dummies aren’t necessarily conservative, but conservatives are necessarily dumb (ignorant anyway). And I was conservative most of my life (I was raised in it). Indeed, I was ignorant. The internet fixed that since I could perform my own research.

And regarding 9/11, I just don’t know and it’s not anything that I could know and for that reason I’ve always avoided trying to know. I didn’t need it to dislike Bush since the Patriot Act was sufficient. 9/11 wouldn’t surprise me if it was an inside job and it wouldn’t surprise me if it wasn’t.

The architects and engineers say jet fuel is not enough to melt steel. I’ve seen videos showing that it’s not enough. But even that evidence is not enough for me to be sure because maybe there is some variable I’m overlooking. I know from experience that heating steel and letting it cool is sufficient to weaken it. I discovered that as a kid playing with candles. Put steel in a candle flame and it’s pretty much worthless after and there’s no way to fix it (except recarbonating it and quenching).

And if they placed bombs in the buildings, how did they know where to put them? Or how did the pilots know where to fly the planes into the buildings to coincide with the placement of the bombs to make it all look natural? Nobody could have predicted where the planes would hit and no pilot willing to sacrifice himself would be able to hit the right bullseye. And if the government is so inept that it can’t run a post office or amtrak, then how could it pull off something like that?

Who? Gloom? He’s who they were talking about here:

Furthermore, compared with liberals, individuals who
endorse right-wing ideologies are more fearful and anxious that
out-groups will cause the disintegration of societal moral standards
and traditions (Altemeyer, 1996; Jost et al., 2003; Sibley
& Duckitt, 2008).

scottbarrykaufman.com/wp-conten … 421206.pdf

He should recognize he has that propensity and work to correct it or at least moderate it. Much of what he’s freaking out about is either nothing or inevitable.

And I could be wrong about global warming. My opinion is that I am not, but I’ve been wrong about it before (or maybe I wasn’t and I’m wrong now, idk). The fact that so many agree with global warming makes me wonder if I am missing something. The problem is I don’t know what I don’t know… and that’s what I need to know in order to know.

2 years ago I was a theist. You may even find some early posts of mine on here that contradict what I say now. I change my mind a lot. When the evidence changes, my opinion changes.

I don’t think it’s a matter of missing brain cells, but what part of the brain is exercised. Have you seen those guys with great big arms and chicken legs? Nursing conspiracy theories probably better-equips one to continue nursing conspiracy theories along with other fear-based ideas which probably leads to asymmetric neural growth analogous to the chicken-legged guy at the gym.

At this point I only have three questions for Serendipper.

  1. Roughly what % of the population needs to work to take care of everyone’s needs (food, clothing, shelter, furniture, appliances, medication, phones, some transportation, etcetera).

  2. How did you arrive at this figure?

  3. How do we get from the system we have, to a system where so long as a few people volunteer, everyone’s needs are met?

@Karpel

There’s no doubt in my mind the elite are steeped in conspiracy and the occult.
There’s no doubt in my mind paranormal phenomena are occurring on planet earth.
I don’t claim to know exactly what these phenomena represent, but we can’t expect mainstream academia and media to do anything but discourage us from acknowledging and investigating them, as they’re heavily controlled by the conspirators themselves.

I’ve arrived at the bridge of death lol

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D7hFHfLEyk[/youtube]

If N = amount of work that needs to be done by a human and P = the number of people willing to work, then I’m saying that P will always be greater than N. Of course, by “work” I don’t mean uncompensated work. It’s not like I’m saying people will work for free for the good of society. If fact they’ll probably be paid quite a bit since the poor will be robust consumers instead of economic drags.

N is inversely proportional to technology and technology rises exponentially. If P>N was true in 1974, it’s true today and will only get exponentially more true as time moves on.

In 1930s a farmer could feed 4 people
In 1970s a farmer could feed 73 people
Today a farmer can feed 155 people.
kxrb.com/how-many-people-does-one-farmer-feed/

Not to mention we throw lots of food away and build warehouses to store it rather than mark prices down to sell it. We have 1.4 billion pounds of cheese investors.com/politics/edit … us-cheese/

Anyway, 330,000,000/155 = 2,129,032 farmers. 2,129,032/330,000,000 = 0.65% of the population are farmers. That’s not counting exports or what we destroy to maintain high prices, but a rough estimate just to show how ridiculously small the required number of workers is.

Put the tax structure back like it was in the 50 year span when america was great and then basicincome.org/

If you received $10k UBI, you could sit on your butt all day, maybe talking on ILP, or you could get a job and have that income plus the $10k. And the minimum wage would increase on its own since an increase would be required to motivate people to work, so the job you decided to take would likely pay much more than the options you currently have. The point is: you are not forced to work. You are incentivized, but not forced. This is the only way to be libertarian. And the rich guy giving up some of his pirated loot doesn’t count as a loss of liberty. And yes “pirated” is the right word to describe what’s taken without permission.

If I offered you $10/hr, you might say “Sounds good from my perspective!”, but I don’t tell you I’m making $50/hr on your labor, then it’s not a fair and informed agreement from which to garner permission to capitalize on your labor. How can you agree how to split a pie when you don’t know how big it is? Does that make sense? I know it makes sense because that used to be the case, and once my workers discovered such then threatened to go on strike because of it. I knew what I was doing was wrong, which is why I had to hide it. I justified it with the capitalist narrative of doing a service by providing jobs, but the jobs were means to rip people off. And that’s the case with most jobs: the point is to put you to work like an animal and capitalize on your labor. Some jobs are opposite and the worker is overcompensated, but most are not a deal that an employee would agree to if they were made aware of the profit that their labor generated.

And the other part of the narrative is that “they were free to do it too!” I told myself that, but no, I was dependent upon having people who didn’t have much expectation out of life because otherwise they would never have agreed to profitable terms. Most of them could only be described as neurological degenerates victim of being born on the wrong side of town. They are the seeds that fell in stony places. There’s probably no fixing them, but we can help the next generation not suffer similar fate.

Nah, science will get bored and seek new puzzles.

Hopefully. But this is dependent on serious social and paradigmatic shifts within the science community, the corporate and government organizations that fund research, and people who are not good at dealing wiht the emotions of being out of control and confused dealing with that.

That’s my best guess also. That not only are people brainwashed to dismiss, but also that active steps are taken to suppress by people who know these things are real.

@Serendipper

You’re delusional.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_of_Adolf_Hitler

Hitler was anti-Christian and at most, a lukewarm theist, if not an atheist.

The vast majority of scholars agree with me, not with you.

The burden of proof is on you.

It’s because I’m even handed and level headed, relative to you, I know there’s wisdom and folly in the left and right, and even more wisdom outside of them, whereas you’re blind to the folly of your side.
You’re deeply polarized, your worldview is overly simplistic, void of any nuance.

No it’s because the left have a childlike belief that human nature doesn’t exist, that we’re born a bank slate, and insofar as it exists, it’s good, and they’re willing to disregard history, evolutionary psychology, and common sense, willing to explain away, excuse and attribute every atrocity man has committed throughout the ages to flawed institutions, misunderstandings and scarcity, in order to maintain this belief (ignorance is bliss).

The left is full of servile, slavish sheep fit for sheering and slaughter, which’s not to say the right is any better, they have their own delusions.

My father, and his friends are genuine Christians.
He’s generous, humble, forgiving, not materialistic and his faith is sincere.
He’s not perfect, but since when did Christianity require its adherents to be as such?
The whole point of the thing is original sin, people are innately flawed, otherwise they
wouldn’t need the free gift of salvation in the first place, they could earn it.
JWs aren’t real Christians, they do everything out of fear, instead of inspiration, they’re religious, not spiritual.

Jesus was referring to religious Jews who were proud, proud like Hitler, who thought they were too good to hang around drunkards, gamblers, prostitutes and thieves.
Jesus was telling them they weren’t any better than those people, worse even because they were hypocrites, whereas the Pharisees and Hitler wanted to marginalize or eradicate those people.

No foster care and the state is.

Religion is to theism what ideology is to atheism.

If most religions, most of the time promoted or turned a blind eye to tyranny, so have most ideologies, most of the time.

There are some exceptions in both camps.

@Serendipper

I don’t want to eradicate anyone, I just want everyone to put in their fair share.

I don’t want to be a slave to the overclass, nor the underclass, feminazis and outgroups.

The process was half-guided, through sexual and social selection, and genes trying to maintain and replicate themselves, and half-unguided, through natural selection, and genetic mutations.

As for freewill, I have mixed thoughts about that, my thinking strongly leans determinism, but there may be room for freewill.

I don’t see it that way, I think it’s more of a libertarian thing to individuate or atomize people, the left must divide everyone into oppressor and oppressed groups, and if they can’t find enough, they’ll exaggerate or manufacture such groups into existence.

even after whites are extinct or a tiny minority in the Americas, which’s their objective, the left will say the Chinese are oppressing the Hindus, or the Hispanics the blacks, it never ends.

@Serendipper

If by right wing we mean corporatism, than yes, it’s right wing, it’s corporatists masquerading as socialists, but if by right wing you mean capitalism, than no, it’s not.
Most political parties who proclaim to be socialists and capitalists are in fact corporatists.

@Serendipper

Just like theists, most atheists submit to the soft tyranny in the 1st world and hard tyranny in the 3rd.

Both Hillbillies and Hippies are too libertarian (in the contemporary Anglo-American sense of the word) to accept hard tyranny, for now.

Protestantism is a fundamentally irreligious spiritual movement.

It allows for religion, but ultimately God/the bible is suppose to be the only spiritual authority over man, not other men.

Protestantism is to the church what libertarianism is to the state.

That’s why Protestantism has fragmented into dozens of major and thousands of minor branches, yet they all consider each other to be protestant, so long as they agree on a few core tenets of Christianity, whereas there’s only one Catholic and one Orthodox Church, and if you don’t adhere to 100% of its doctrines, you’re damned.

Many of them believe the pope is the anti-Christ because he believes he’s an authority, whereas there is no authority between man and God but Jesus in proper Protestantism.

Angela Merkel is mixed, like all heads of state in the west, you can find bits and pieces of theocracy, secularism, corporatism, capitalism, socialism, conservatism, libertarianism, progressivism, nationalism and globalism in her government.

Nazi = national socialist.

It’s degrees, not black/white like you think.

Most atheists want to disarm the people, pay their taxes and vote for heads of state who’re by and large corporatists like Hillary Clinton and Justin Trudeau, and where they are genuinely socialist, they’re pro-outgroup, underclass and women and anti-ingroup, middle class and men.

They don’t need religion, they’re indoctrinated by public education to not challenge the system, or to challenge it in a superficial way, like by dyeing their hair unnatural colors, body piercings and tattoos, or to challenge it in a divisive way, that pits working class, urban, outgroup women against middle class, suburban, ingroup men.

While it’s true many religions, much of the time, taught their followers to support the powers that be 1. so have many ideologies, after their followers believed they had been established 2. that can be a good thing, if the powers that be aren’t that bad, and the immediate alternatives are worse 3. not all religions, all of the time.

You could say Islam began as a rebellion against established powers, for better or worse, and some of Muhammad’s followers instituted proto-socialist and democratic reforms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_socialism

And spirituality and theism apart from religion is neutral regarding established powers, just as atheism is, and many irreligious spiritualists and theists fought against tyranny.

As I’ve said elsewhere, man (some more than others) has a tendency to worship entities, and if he doesn’t get his fix by worshipping God, he often turns to nation, or mankind.
We see this especially on the left, which tends to be more atheist (altho there’re many libertarian atheists, and some new age leftists), but we see it on the right too.
The left has a kind of faith in the goodness as well as in the technological prowess of humanity most religions lack.
The bible talks over and over again about man’s shortcomings.
Now sometimes it is the environment that is to blame, or some supposed evil has gotten an undeservedly bad rap, but not always or necessarily most of the time.

@Serendipper

And yet here we are, it’s nearly 2020, what has Jacque and his project accomplished in the last 50 years?
Can you show me one environmentally friendly, self-sustaining city, or even village? Where so long as 1 10th of 1% of the population voluntarily labors, 100% of the population eats?
Where there’s no need for government, for there’s no competition, all basic necessities are as accessible as air?
Show me one and I will happily join it, but until you do, I’ll remain skeptical such a dream can ever be realized in our lifetime, if ever.
Man can be such a greedy animal, that even if all valuables were as plentiful as air, I’m not sure it’d be enough to quell his competitive drives, tho it’d probably help.

Agreed.

I knew real unemployment was higher, but is it really that high?

I guess if you include children and retirees in ‘people not looking for work’ it is.

We can just make big business improve working conditions, raise wages (and perhaps reduce prices for essential goods) by externally regulating or nationalizing them, we don’t have to raise taxes to make welfare easier to get/pay more, than threaten to go on welfare if big business doesn’t improve working conditions, raise wages and reduce prices.

And if we make welfare easier to get/pay more, than some essential workers (that is, workers who provide everyone with essential goods) will quit, other essential workers won’t quit, and the ones who don’t quit will have to work harder to provide for everyone, which may prompt more of them to quit, until we all starve, but even if they don’t quit, why should they have to work harder, and longer (you may have to raise the workweek)?

Welfare or UBI is more authoritarian, you have to force some to work harder so others don’t have to work at all, in addition to taxing the rich.

If that were true, the rich would voluntarily share most of their riches with the poor.

Why would businesses reduce wages if it meant people couldn’t afford to consume their goods? And if wages and prices drop equally, than what’s the problem?
People will have less money, but goods will cost less too, so they’ll still be able to afford them. Why would wages drop more than prices?

And again, we can always reduce the workweek so prices and wages remain about the same, and everyone works.

Nonsense.

We set wages now.

No, I’m a proponent of national democratic socialism, not communist dictatorship.

@Serendipper

I remember a socialist once told me that in the middle ages 99% of people had to farm so 100% of people could eat, and that now, thanks to advances in automation and energy production, only 1% of people had to farm so 100% of people could eat.

However, what he overlooked was, people specialize more now than they did then, which’s also contributed to our increased productivity.
Sure, way back then 99% of people had to farm, but 99% of people also had to make their own soap, clothes, etcetera, everyone had to do almost everything for themselves and their families.
So now, only 1% of the population has to farm (not to mention distribute and prepare our food), but that 1% that farms doesn’t make our soap, another 1% has to do that, but that 1% that makes our soap doesn’t make our clothes, another 1% has to do that, and so on.

So while advances in production would have made our lives easier, if it weren’t for capitalists failing to increase wages, I think our productivity has been grossly exaggerated by some radical socialists and communists in order to make it seem like only 1% of the population has to work.
No many, if not most of the people that work now, still have to work, and everyone that can should share in that work.

When necessary, I think the scientific community can often be herded by the deep state in the same way all of us and our institutions are herded: just throw money in the direction you want them to go in.
Give money to the so called ‘debunkers’ and ‘skeptics’ (misnomers, in truth they’re denialists) to publicly reprimand, ridicule, shame and slander dissidents.
Give money to academic admin to cut off their funds or expel them.
If you can’t buy someone, buy someone else who can ruin their life.

So you concede that the atheist hitler went to great lengths to pretend to be christian for the purpose of committing atrocity. Well that’s even worse because it displays just how necessary religion is.

How do you know that? Did you take an exhaustive poll?

And the burden of admitting you’re wrong is on you.

I grew up christian, but I grew out of it just recently. I was indoctrinated conservative capitalist by dad, then was an employer and small business owner myself where I practiced it, then changed my mind thanks to the internet enabling me to research. Now you tell me I’m blind to the folly of my side, I’m polarized, and my worldview is simplistic?

The sheep are on the right.

Rightwing / Leftwing
Religion / nonreligion
Authoritarianism / Democracy
Claims of knowing absolute truth (objectivism) / Relativism
Consolidations of power and wealth / Dispersal of power and wealth.

I’ll concede there are some goofy leftists who disregard evidence to advance a worldview that seems virtuous, but that ethos doesn’t encapsulate the party.

I was christian for at least 20 years and was on my way to becoming a preacher. When I was 20, I filled 2 church pews with my friends.

Me too. The only difference since getting away from the faith is that I no longer try to be good because it’s right, but because it’s sensible. Having integrity just made me hate people who didn’t have it. I went on about that a year ago here viewtopic.php?f=1&t=193887&p=2698622#p2695431

Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Right, it’s the idea that you are a defect. The church institutionalized guilt.

No he damned them to hell and they crucified him for it.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X-ZdkW9rt4[/youtube]

Jesus divides people into good and bad, sheep and goats, wheat and tares. The wheat goes into the barn and the tares into the oven. When you start thinking this way, you’re equipped to commit atrocities in the name of good.

Hitler didn’t like the homosexuality and sexual immorality that the jews brought to germany. Germany was a homosexual paradise before Hitler came along.

Keep in mind that Jesus wasn’t even real. His words have been added to. Like the story of the woman caught in adultery where Jesus said “let he who is without sin cast he first stone.” That was added late, which means someone just made it up because it was how they wanted to portray him. And the scribes didn’t give a shit about accuracy; they just wrote whatever, and no one could read anyway, so it didn’t matter.

King James tried to hammer it all together, but that was 1600 years after the facts.

Jesus was just another in a long list of anthropomorphized sun gods.

Growth is measured by the extent to which one has outgrown their childhood indoctrination.