On impossibility of God

I don’t think your argument works.

You cannot simply conclude ‘God is an impossibility’ because “you” cannot show God is subjected to time.

In any case, you did not state ‘God is an impossibility’ in what sense?

Note God is a possibility in thought only, i.e. anyone can think ‘God exists’ which can affect them psychologically.
Islamic extremists think God exists, delivers holy texts that command them to kill non-believers to gain favor to enter heaven with eternal life and access to virgins. Other theists are affected psychologically merely based on thinking and believing God exists based on faith and without proofs.

So you must state the specific sense where God is an impossibility or possibility.

Note I have argued;

  1. God is possible within thoughts only.

  2. God is an impossible in the logical sense, God can only be possible within pseudo-rational thoughts.

  3. God is an impossibility to be in the real sense, e.g. within Science and empirical-rational perspective.

I don’t think there are other perspectives to postulate God beside the above? Do you have any?

Nb: Definitely God cannot be impossible because you cannot justify God exists within time.

I can show that God is an impossibility if He has to be subjected to time and cannot be subject to time at the same time.

Isn’t this p and not-p an obvious contradiction, thus an impossibility, i.e.
IF a contradition, obviously an impossibility.

The most effective argument is;
God is an impossibility to be real.

When it is rationalized philosophically God is impossible to be real, then any question of ‘God exists as real’ is moot, i.e. a non-starter.

Thus the only avenue for God to exists is only in thought [mind] and this is driven by a psychological impulses originating from an existential crisis.

This is why non-theistic Buddhism [and other non-theistic secular approaches] focuses on the mind and psychological to deal directly with the specific existential crisis and side-step the never-ending, unresolvable, & certain-potentially-evil-laden issue of God exists.

Yes, the argument is about showing that God is an impossibility to be real.

Yes, “real” is the most realistic qualification.

ALL if not most theists believe God to be real to the extent of sending his messages and commands via messengers and prophets, listening & answering the prayers of believers, created the Universe, etc.

Even pantheists believe God to be real in one sense but is indifferent to the world in another.

It is insignificant and not critical to prove God is an impossibility to be a false, fiction, imagination, and anything else unreal.
Surely no theists would want to believe in a God that is unreal??

Therefore the explicit and implicit qualification for any God [believed by any theist] is that it must be a real God.
As a counter I have proven ‘God is an Impossibility to be Real.’

Since God is an impossibility to be real, the question of a real God is a moot, i.e. a non-starter.

However, one can still think of an unreal God for various reasons, especially for psychological reasons to deal with an inherent existential crisis, where it really works to relieve existential angst subliminally.

My point is, where theists believe in a God they have to understand they believe for its psychological reasons & benefits and they cannot insist such a God is real in a realistic sense.

The already proven dangers of believing ‘the theistic God is real’ is when such a real God is believed to deliver commands to believers to kill non-believers as a divine duty and carry out other evil acts against non-believers.

If God is understood to be only a thought and not real, but only to relieve an inherent unavoidable existential crisis psychologically, then a belief in God will be confined to be personal and private.

Figuring out why God is here is one of those great fissures into the unknown books and outlines of an invisible existence. We have yet to penetrate or unravel why such intelligence exited its old dream trance oblivion, and took over our worldly precipice. Does ultimate control cheapen the imagination? It could, because just having hands over the world may make fiction too weak of a force. If we just go to books, and believe that’s real, does that make it more influential than if you know too much about what’s possible and impossible like God does? And could we even handle knowing everything for that matter? Such ventures may be too extraordinary to capture.

We can do away with the question of God totally when we can understand and psychologically accept ‘God is an impossibility to to real’ as in this thread
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=193474

Think about it?
What has theists at present to lose if they give up their belief in the idea of God?
I do not anticipate anything serious will happen to the world but for the individual theists there would be a very high psychological stake if they were to just give up a belief in God. Theists will feel psychologically shaken if they give up God.

Theists argued the moral foundation of humanity will break down if there are no theistic beliefs.
Nope, all human beings has an inherent faculty of morality and conscience and without theism this potential will unfold spontaneously and expeditiously. Note secular morality has abolish chattel slavery legally while SOME theistic holy texts are still stuck with immutable verses that condone slavery, caste system, etc.

The OP proposition strikes me as literal nonsense of the absolutist variety. God is defined to the satisfaction of the definer who then concludes that his own chosen definition is an impossibility. Wouldn’t intellectual humility rather lead one to consider the possibility that one’s definition is in error?
I’m using the term “nonsense” literally. Why not ask the question: Is there a possible experience which would justify believing in God? From the standpoint of empiricism one could then estimate the probability of such experience. But I don’t see how one can claim with certitude that such experience is impossible.

It is the conflict in the definitions which give rise to an impossibility.

Which definition is wrong? What is your definition of God?

Experience? Any supernatural evil being can claim that s/he is God. What is the truth?

I didn’t say that experience of supernatural beings is impossible.

As I stated above, I am going by the OP. There I understand you to define God in terms of simplicity and non-subjection to time.

And how do you KNOW with certitude that what you experience is NOT God?

If our sense of what is a paradox holds at all levels and all possibilities. Once we would have said that being a wave or a particle were mutually exclusive states of being. That something could not both act as a wave and as a particle at the same time. Deduction eliminated this possibility. Yet, now it seems to be the case.

Particles in superposition both exist and do not exist. They sort of exist in potential. Again, deduction might have said this was not possible, but now it is pretty much accepted in physics models.

Our deductions are always dependent on our metaphysics. What seems obvious may not be.

God is defined as love and justice too. This make this is against simplicity of God unless you show that love and justice are similar.

I asked “what is the truth?”.

I don’t think that we could call a quantum particle as simple.

If every element in the universe came from the singularity of the big bang, why can’t Love & Justice come from the simplicity that is God? Alternatively, apart from the fact that the simplicity of God is part of the traditional orthodox definition, why must God be simple?
On your question, “what is the truth?”, from the probability that we don’t know the answer with certitude, it doesn’t follow that there isn’t one or that such cannot be experienced.

Because Love and Justice are different yet each being God.

Here there is an argument in favor of that: saintaquinas.com/article5.html

Yes, we cannot know.

Then nothing is simple. The word has no meaning.

Or perhaps some complicted things do not move towards more complexity or simplicity. CAn you demonstrate that this must be the case.

Sure, knowing more. The Abrahamic religions have God as the perfect unevolving something. Perhaps they are wrong. Perhaps God evolves.

You mean because humans use inexact terms in language there could not possibly be a God where it would be useful to use those terms?

Are you saying, for example, you would never refer to another person as both just and loving because they cannot be both all the time? Are you saying something does not exist because our words are not perfect?

So if people start saying contradictory things about you will that make you no longer having existed?

It seems to me all you are demonstrating is some the problems of describing things. Still, even the inexact descriptions of things can be useful, and even convey core truths.

That’s true for a lot of things we know exist.

If you are loving you want to treat those you love justly.

Because by eternity we mean that God has existed in infinite past. Creation apparently is not eternal, it has a age. Therefore God has to wait eternity to create.
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We don’t know if creation is eternal or not. It could be eternal forward in time. What if God is not bound by time? What if we are trying to describe things above our pay grade. Like a dog licking the reviever of a phone upon hearing his owners voice through it. He’s right, it is his owner speaking. But he is not completely right.

It seems to me many of the issues you raise have the same problems when describing things we know are real. Like the personality of someone we love. Perception. The external world. Time. We try to explain these things and we get into imperfections and problems. Language and perception are problematic. I will never adequately be able to put my wife into words. Yet, she exists. And in many ways I do know her and my descriptions are helpful. Perhaps her mother knows her also, b ut her descriptions are not useful. They confuse others when those people meet my wife or do not help them understand her reactions and motives. Her mother has poorer descritpions, but mine are not perfect, they are just useful and in some core way correct. Even if one went through them carefully one would find contradictions and confusions.

It seems to me your critique works well as a general indictment of language, but it is a poor approach to disproving God or even discproving that some people have useful ways of describing, thinking about and relating to God.

And also there is a heavy use of the Abrahamic God.

No, a thing which has only a property/definition can exist.

True. That is the case too.

This is all exhaustive options.

Do you know the name of God who is evolving?

Yes.

No. They cannot be both in the same time.

No.

What is your definition of God?

No, nothing is wrong with the logic and language. It is about a contradiction.
P1) A is B & A is C
P2) B=/=C
C ) A cannot exist.

There is problem if there are at least two definitions which are contrary. Sorry for not being accurate.

Yes. But Love is not Justice.

Creation cannot be eternal. There is an argument against that.

A timeless God cannot create. There is an argument against that too.

Perhaps, the same way that an electron is a particle and a wave.

Right, it includes the statement: “The properties usually attributed to God such as omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence do not contradict the teaching of simplicity because each property is a different way of looking at the infinite active being of God from a limited perspective.” The same could be true of love and justice.

Then we agree that we cannot know. And, since we cannot know, it follows that you do not know if God is an impossibility or not.