Have you leaned what Jesus and your bible teaches?

Quite the assumption. Why would I fear matter?
That would be stupid seeing as I have to eat to live and like to eat matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.
The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, “Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]”
“If those who attract you say, ‘See, the Kingdom is in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, ‘It is under the earth,’ then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty.”

As you can see from that quote, if we see God’s kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don’t see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL

Quite the assumption. Why would I fear matter?
That would be stupid seeing as I have to eat to live and like to eat matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religions originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.
The Christian reality.
1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

The Gnostic Christian reality.
Gnostic Christian Jesus said, “Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]”
“If those who attract you say, ‘See, the Kingdom is in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, ‘It is under the earth,’ then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty.”

As you can see from that quote, if we see God’s kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don’t see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL

You ignore that most sages, including Jesus, had one line for the sheeple and another secret one for the apostles.

I too like to look at the history of religions as I seek to know how the world ended in preferring the genocidal son murderer over more moral Gods.

To your first sentence. I do not as knowledge is not above morality as they are not on the same graph. Knowledge is either true or not.

Morality is subjective and not objective and cannot be said to be true or not based on some knowledge.

Regards
DL

Could you explain how entropy and the anthropic principle lead to this being the only possible world and the best world. And isn’t the anthropic principle in the realm of supernatural ideas? I mean, it’s teleology.

It is science that recognizes that the time line only flows the one way.

If you deny the conditions that got us to this point in time, then there is nothing I can say.

What is, has to be, given our history.

If your parents had not mated at exactly the time they did, you would not be here.

Regards
DL

Yup. Though entropy doesn’t make this any more true or less obvious. And it has nothing to do with the anthropic principle.

I do not see the conflict between those ideas. I would not think many would have a belief in a multi-verse though as those theories have yet to be proven. Strangely, the math works for both a 9 and 12 dimension models where multiverses and branes would exist.

If this is the only possible world, which it is and must be given our past, then it is obviously the best of all possible world that there can be if we ignore our wish lists for better. Those wishes can only aply to the future and not the past. We can aim for better but must also recognize that we are at our best possible starting point at all points in time.

Yup. Though entropy doesn’t make this any more true or less obvious. And it has nothing to do with the anthropic principle.
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You would be, if you are at all, would be in a completely different time line, and I do think that that fact is rather obvious. Change any one thing in your past and you change all of your history.

Regards
DL

Well, if there is a multiverse than our world, our lives, our experience, is just one possibility amongst an infinite number.

But many do, many because it is way of retaining determinism. Further there is evidence, just not confirmation.

I’m still not seeing the anthropic principle brought in.

Yup. Though entropy doesn’t make this any more true or less obvious. And it has nothing to do with the anthropic principle.
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Sure, but that has nothing to do with entropy or the anthropic principle. It does have to do with determinism or saying that we are affected by changes - so identity type issues or causation.

It doesn’t have anything to do with the 2nd law of thermodynamics - except that I am in this universe and the 2nd law has to do with this universe - or with the anthropic principle.

And nothing in science, so far, justifies value judgments.

Be this the only universe or one of a billion, our lives, our experience, possibilities are still in a huge number.

Correct, and without confirmation, no scientist will say he believes it.

It demonstrates this by showing it is the only possible world. If the only possible world, then it is obviously the best of all possible worlds, unless you can somehow change the history.

See above and think of the arrow of time. If you cannot grasp that in a progression of time, the first second is followed by the second second, etc, I cannot help you.

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It shows that sperm had to be given before you could have been conceived.

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Determinism is what the anthropic principle speaks to. It says that if you throw a ball forward, it will not go backwards.

Regards
DL

1 John 2:15 is addressing the issue of loving anything that is not God, which is the realm of perceivable things, the world. If you put priority into material or the supernatural, you are not of God. God reveals himself in the OT, Jesus, and the work of the Holy Spirit in all of us individually. Not all of the created order and material is evil, similar to humans and our desires being good and evil. Our desires can cause us to put other things before God, redirecting us away from the truth, going in another path that glorifies mysticism and supernatural conjecture, theoretical boasting, that will eventually lead to some really bad things that have probably happened in the past.

As for the Genesis verse, obviously cherry picked, the ground is cursed many times, in Cain’s story too. God was addressing Adam’s choice, which was a worse sin than Eve’s deception, that now they must both labor more in order to survive. God was not saying that because of sin and death, all matter is cursed and corrupted and should be feared. Our perceptions were corrupted, no longer pure.

God’s kingdom is not all around us, more so inside ourselves and in Christ. Our ideas make our reality, but that does not induce moral subjectivity. The Holy Spirit speaks through our vessel. Ever wonder why God is flying on a brain cloak in Michelangelo’s Creation of Adam?

Entropy implies the idea of disorder and order together, which I would be happy to talk more about, but what determines the driving forces is malleable, given our beginning talk of its irrefutability but not determining its causes and effects. I’m not seeing how the anthropic principle is affecting the many-worlds theory and how we are living in the best world, whether or not there is more than one world. The world yesterday is not the world today nor the world tomorrow, and on top of that there is a battle in contemporary quantum theories about what to do with the possibility of a multiplicity of the present.

I see a lot of this theorizing as a dissent from order, an undermining of the importance of morality, and an eventual eroding of most societies before we begin to colonize space.


Greatest I am
wrote:

Can you please quote it, as I am not really sure what you are referring to. Is it the KJV?

“God’s kingdom is not all around us, more so inside ourselves and in Christ.”

Is where God is not his kingdom and is God not said to be Omni-present?

Regards
DL

Seriously!!

If you are that inept and ill informed, you might want to stay away from me. I do not suffer incompetence and lack of thinking well. So reply carefully if you choose to do so.

That aside, here is the easy to find verse.

biblehub.com/genesis/3-22.htm

Regards
DL

Omnipresence is not our perception of material reality.

True, but it is something that some sages might see. I am not sure.

They say basically, “If you can’t see God in all, you can’t see God at all.” -Anon

Regards
DL

Seeing and knowing are different, for the incorporeal especially. God is in all things because he is all things, all the time. But our perceptions are limited and come along with categorical inconsistencies and emotions. Our perception is inferior to God because we are not omnipresent.

You assume that God is a supernatural omnipresent being on faith without facts so how in hell can I argue against your delusional thinking?

That aside, my quote says see, which is the corporeal and matter. We cannot see incorporeal or what is not of matter so what makes you believe there is such a state of being?

Regards
DL

Greatest wrote:

Chuckle… Socrates used the very same teaching method. Rather than merely giving his pupils the answer to a particular problem, he would ask them questions that forced them to analyze the situation and learn each subject more thoroughly.

It is not His plan that sinners shall live forever. This is demonstrated by the fact that after Adam’s sin he was separated from the tree of life which perpetuated life.

“And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of Us, (here you have an inference of the trinity), to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.” Genesis 3:22, 23.

Though we were made in His image, we certainly do not possess the attributes of God. God is all powerful, He’s everywhere, and knows all things. Humans are neither omniscient, omnipresent, or omnipotent, God is self-existent and eternal, whereas man is not.

Greatest wrote:

You ignore that most sages,[b]

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Where in the scriptures does it say the above?

Chapter and verse please.

This is not in line with the teaching of Scripture.

Revelation 22:18-19 A dire warning is given to anyone who adds to the prophecies in this book or takes away anything from them.

You’re starting to throw stones while living in a glass house.

Faith is a mode of thinking. How do you deal with randomness and disaster? How do you deal with the abyss of things we don’t know?

You worry yourself over the corporeal. You’ve called yourself a Gnostic Christian but show little knowledge of Aeons and the hierarchies of the divine, while denying the incommunicable traits of the one true God who is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent.

We can see the laws of the incorporeal coming into the corporeal realm. We cannot know what we do not know about the incorporeal which affects the corporeal. We do not even know all that is corporeal, but some arrogant people like to think they do, especially in the scientific community and more radical religious denominations. I can have doubt for progress, but not about the Trinity and God. My delusion is not dogma, and without accepting some delusion in my current thinking, I cannot fix in the future what I may have been uneducated about in the past. You have no room for delusion in your world, the greatest form of delusion. You have summed up a system which causes you to reason and try to gain the high ground against others when everyone else sees through your lack of sound framework. No peace within yourself, an illusion of it.

Shieldmaden probably communicates it in more familiar terms for you.

We can know some communicable traits of God, (e.g. spiritual, invisible, omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient) but most are recognized in rational and faithful way than an immediately empirical way. Only when we get to the moral attributes of God, (goodness, love, justice, wrath, jealousy, pity, holiness, and righteousness) do all of us start taking issue because we all have sin and death waiting, there is an inner battle between Satan and the Holy Spirit to reason away how God can have all of these attributes that can be conflicting to a human understanding, how science and reason can be used for good and evil. Gen.3:22 demonstrates the necessity of being cast out of the garden, the pure pregnant state which humans originated, because now that we had knowledge of good and evil (a sense of morality that bound us to sin and death), we would lust for eternal life out of either wanting to return to the original state absent of death, or a will Satan planted to pervert and destroy God’s creation further. Ironically, the eternal life idea would be closer to binding ourselves to hell forever rather than transcending to an incorporeal bliss forever (as the eternal state wouldn’t be blissful, but equally good and evil. You can keep looking for your philosopher’s stone and fountain of youth if you choose though, after all, the mind can make a heaven of hell and a hell of heaven. Attempting to understand and be like God, to claim individual divinity above or equal to the most high, is the same thing Lucifer did, yet so many people think its all hokey pokey supernatural non-sense and can’t take a hint.

God is not comprehensible because he is what we are not, and then more. You want ‘facts’ for the logically improvable and incomprehensible. You want a tidy system that has no room for delusion, curiosity, growth, change, and a bigger picture. Although the Christian Bible can be proved, for the most part, historically and morally, it is not falsifiable the same way I’m sure many atheists wish it was.

Given the contemporary plague of sPirITual nEw agE eSoterIC anti-Christians, you might make a better living being their mascot rather than arguing with me.

I assume you assume that I assume.

Circular reasoning can be self-defeating or self-attesting, self-destructive or foundational.

You say you live cup half full, I say your cup is cracked and tattered.

Have you learned what the Bible teaches? Have you learned what Jesus teaches? I have my doubts towards your logic, almost as much as towards my own, in which case I run out of time and respect for what you have to say when it boils down to insults and lack of effort on your side.

Let me digress, with an equally insulting polemic, you are a liar and an esoteric shill. I’m quite sure you skipped over Leviticus and most of John. If you are that inept and ill informed, you should stay away from educating any children and trying to influence the world until you have embraced a gentler approach to the rich plethora of worldviews all humans have something to contribute to.