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PostSubject: If chaos, then what? Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
We got to a point on the philosopher’s thread on ilp where Sawelios said (paraphrasing) ‘nothing, an infinity of turtles upon turtles, whatever.’
Thus justifying magic, that inscrutable point of inception, also known as superstition.
But the what does matter. Whether it’s an infinity of turtles upon turtles or nothing or what. If you are not prone to superstition at least, it matters very much.
The what is chaos. The greeks knew it, but let’s not attempt to take up the greek conversation. It is chaos, that is obvious.
So the ethics is, um, shit I forgot.
Make the most of it I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:35 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Right, ok. If chaos is inscrutable in its totality, yet it answers the question where does everything come from…
Getting closer. Brb.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:00 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It occurs to me that vo can be called chaos ontology.
Or chaos architecture.
Simply because its premises preclude perfect top down pattern weaving.
don’t mean to interrupt.
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- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:06 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
You sus interrupt.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:07 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
*did.
Hold on.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:18 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Right. The ethics is.
Chaos precludes the possibility of a unifying principle, a single guide. Since one would preclude the whole rest of chaos. And it is inscrutably inmense.
Vo deals with this lack of unity (on the surface, since it does hold the mechanism of vo itself to be The Answer, the unifying principle from which is the totality of everything). But it doesn’t show why. I just have.
The ethics then is to. Goddamnit man. You fucked my whole shit up.
Anyway, the idea of an architecture or ontology of chaos is patently absurd.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:19 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes yes, difference precedes every order. But.
Actually you just described why VO gives architecture of chaos.
I agree with the general principle, but in general, existence precludes the possibility of a unifying underlying principle. At least, if we assume real existence. If there is a unifying principle, all is a simulation and nothing actually exists, so it can’t explain itself so it can’t explain its origins so we get the old god back.
Otherwise, unification can only be done through long effort of will, with is born of what you call chaos and I difference, which is born from self-valuing principle.
VO shows why there is lack of unity, because it precludes a priori unity and yet offers the fundamental theorem about being. So being can’t be fundamentally a unity.
To always have to disagree to agree…
–
You posit “if chaos” and then draw a valid “then” - but only though VO have I been able to establish that chaos is prior to order.
Tell me, how do you explain order from chaos?
How, if Chaos is the premise, does order follow?
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:06 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Unification of what?
I don’t explain order from chaos. This would imply chaos is distinct and separate from something.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:09 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Asking if order can come from chaos is like asking if god can make a rock so heavy he can’t lift it. Just metaphysical games. Semantics only.
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
“Unification of what?”
Of existence.
What the will to power attempts.
To bring all under one signifier.
What VO basically manages.
“I don’t explain order from chaos. This would imply chaos is distinct and separate from something.”
No, rather that you don’t explain order from chaos implies that chaos is separate from everything.
Chaos means void.
If Void is the basic premise, then how does non-void arise from it?
This is why I don’t take Buddhism as an intellectual, but only as a physiological premise.
There is only the relative stillness of the nerves.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
“Asking if order can come from chaos is like asking if god can make a rock so heavy he can’t lift it. Just metaphysical games. Semantics only.”
Haha, but no. It is rather the question what is meant with the pretty word “chaos”.
If not the actual meaning, that is - which is “void”.
Noting can come from void, obviously. So if chaos is the basic premise, then the universe contradicts that premise. Thats cool though. But I prefer such artifices of language in French.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:49 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Its very tedious to have to repeat all the fucking time.
Self-valuing precedes any relative chaos. Chaos, in the empirical light of existence, is either fabricated, or a term for a local, specific absence of recognizable patterns.
Absolute chaos is in direct contradiction with experience. Absolute self-valuing is the point toward which being is an asymptote.
Games so much annoy me.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Me too. For me, chaos is always a relative measure of some either disorder or unpredictability within an existing system. Order and chaos spin each other into existence and work together, it’s just the logic of things. Value logic precedes all this of course.
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:53 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Another way chaos can be perceived is from a lack of control, a weak power.
A weak centre of power means a very limited ability to see order around itself.
Everything is like, overwhelming and shit. Oooh, its so chaotic!
Yeah, imagine Napoleon exclaiming that.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Olol, yeah
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In his case, the weather finally was cause to chaos. It had rained before the battle of Waterloo, making certain tactics or strategy impossible, ridding Napoleon of his control, his self-valuing of the battle. But this simply meant that chaos disappeared from the other side.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Supposedly his extension of capital credit was also removed at a key moment.
But yes, anyone who sees complexity as “chaos” simply isn’t trying hard enough. So I guess that would make such a person merely… chaotic.
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:02 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Me too. For me, chaos is always a relative measure of some either disorder or unpredictability within an existing system. Order and chaos spin each other into existence and work together, it’s just the logic of things. Value logic precedes all this of course.
Right, but does this not mean that chaos is a crucial element to order?
I think this is the case.
In the sense that sv-logic is essentially an order, since logic is really an order -
and since it is not top down bot bottom up, in order for this order to exist it must face relative chaos outside of itself, even so as to be able to maintain the order, which after all involves incorporating uncertainties.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:06 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Supposedly his extension of capital credit was also removed at a key moment.
Seems to fit the picture. What is certain is that when the battle was lost the first Rothschild quickly sped to London and announced that Nap had won, crashing the London exchange, from what I understand decimating it - so that Rothschild could buy the whole thing. I think this is the cause to the ongoing resentment against Jewish bankers in England.
Anyway maybe it was Rothschild who financed Nap too then? Seems a nifty plot.
Quote :
But yes, anyone who sees complexity as “chaos” simply isn’t trying hard enough. So I guess that would make such a person merely… chaotic.
Certainly the term chaos is just not cutting it, unless P is willing to narrow it down - which would have to be done in terms of the basic logic we already have.
Maybe chaos can mean the absence of pure absence, and nothing more - leaving the question of presence aside.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:16 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, or he could use his own logic, that would be cool too.
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:17 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What P tends to present as chaotic are invariably windows through which more of the majestic order is revealed.
In this sense his “chaos” is akin to the shamanic, magical valuing type of vision -
that which is unhindered by what it sees - that which sees without interpreting.
Relatively, of course - simply letting reality impact layers far beneath the most eager contexts.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:26 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
That’s why I’ve always thought of Pezer as a tectonic-tactician. I would very much like to see his further elaborations of the sort of logic he sees at work, in chaos or anything else.
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Yes, or he could use his own logic, that would be cool too.
He will always use his own structural integrity and build edifices of logic, consequential things. But VO is unassailable, and I don’t think P disagrees -
I just realize that if WtP is the Hammer, VO is the Anvil.
The ground that gives the hammer its hammer-ness from which swords emerge.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Challenging WtP-VO – will to value (double entendre) – is like words competing with the sentence in which they appear.
Which is what poetry and philosophy both are, that is true.
Not every good line is a sentence.
“go on break it
it aint sacred
its not holy —”
Thrasymachus wrote:
That’s why I’ve always thought of Pezer as a tectonic-tactician.
Fuck thats an excellent term.
He is certainly good at being that.
Quote :
I would very much like to see his further elaborations of the sort of logic he sees at work, in chaos or anything else.
I don’t mean to impede any of it.
But even less I mean to impede my philosophic self-valuing, which is a devouring monster of energy.
If I am anything it is a problem with which the world will have to come to get to grips. An by the world I might mean what Pezer intends with it - he sets the right goals. So I toss mountains in his way to make a path.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
VO is indeed an anvil, as breaking the anvil leads to impotence of the hammer. Because the hammer is power, this can’t be done.
Lets say VO is the hammer and anvil, where the hammer had already been developed by Nietzsche. I needed to make something that the hammer occult destroy to explicate precisely the friction of the WtP with itself.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:12 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
tectonic tactician/fixed cross/capable of demonstration
for example
Pezer would be the Master of Ceremony of this group.
Frankly we’re all very good rappers, the world should know our style.
Nthing is trivial. Thus "Everything, “All” is definitely trivial. What that leaves is a very peculiar moment of the choosing of my own tastes when a magician told a story.
(etc -)
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
That the thing rappers are never alone.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:16 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don’t believe in chaos
I am chaos
they tell me
why don’t I believe in myself they ask
chaos is in the formation of a flower, it is all that collapses in favour of the Great.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:26 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Rap gives an opportunity to bring back the old materials and start from the bottom, the rock where it still meet the grass. It has a kind of pedestrian nature as morality always does before the billions of years - and it uses this, like playing craps against the walls of eternity as I called it - and in this game finds the stone, the eternal dance of an environment of chance, the certainties. Win and lose - these are monumental concepts, the pillars of mercy and severity as they occur in time and define us step by step.
Determining what we wish to win is prior to all this but most of it is implicit in our nativity.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well ok, you want a more concrete definition of chaos. You did what I said not to do, which is continue the greek conversation. Chaos meant void then. Kaoc, the sound of a drop onto a pool. Also why Thales held water to be the what everything is essencially. But the -oc was then deemed too hardcore, so it was softened into oç. It was the sound that determined existence, chaogenetic. Try it! Dyonisoç, Dyonisoç. Etc.
But this obviously is not the chaos Nietzsche, for example, refered to. It is simply its genetic precursor.
Chaos is, as traceable from that very genetic line, that which everything is.
Let’s take it from the search for the grandest, most all determining, all encompassing, all being real thing. Famously pursued by catholics and philosophers. Is it God? But this would imply a unity of some sort. Everything can’t be God and God remain a distinct thing. As you say, all knowledge must be rooted in experiencie. Can any such unity be drawn from experience?
Nietzsche and Kierkegaard both stumbled on this. The lack of unity.
The only term, and one which understanding requires only the barest intellectual honesty, that encompasses everything, absolutely everything, from order to what mathematicians call chaos or entropy, to punk horses, to what can’t quite be put into words yet or ever or really anything at all and everything, including void, truths that contradict void, truths, absoluteness, the impossibility of absoluteness, sadness, blorgorg, infinity, an infinite etc. is chaos.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:26 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
And even that elemental Greek pool, kaoc, is only void un like a genetic almost mystical place, a transition between chaos and Gods and Stuff, not because chaos requires one, or there necessarily is one. Just because chaos includes it un its inscrutable infinity.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:49 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thats profoundly clarifying.
Yes then, chaos includes order, chaos is simply that which is but isn’t subjected yet.
Lol, that explains my behaviour as FC.
Still this stresses self valuing logic principle as the architect of, for with and by or at least through chaos.
But maybe thats like saying the engine is the architect of the distance. One bridge too far.
VO needs wheels. Chaos can be its wheels.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Because VO is an order that destroys all previous orders of its… order.
Thus, it must have a kind of ally, something it doesn’t destroy, to navigate itself, to self-valuing.
The self valuing logic is the dancing star born amid the chaos -
chaos is that which has no laws, so that lawlessnesses can exist and set their own laws, so that things can exist.
Chaos is the inverse of the grass growing through the rock, or tarmac. I don’t know what that means, I just missed the metaphor.
But now see why chaos is a birth ground, even though not to itself, as it is simply the intermediary of being and the next instance of being; it is the collective unconscious will, the monster of energy that must seclude itself from itself in many compartmentalized chambers called entities; self-valuing is the escape of chaos from itself, which it fortunately never even intended to be, as that would be its death.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I believe that ‘void’ is only meaningful in relation to something which is absent. Thus there must be “some thing” already, thus absolute void-as-such, in a universal or a priori sense, makes no sense. I see this also applying to chaos.
I will give a brief overview of my argument for the meaninglessness if non-existence, or rather for the fact that something has always existed and it makes no sense to speak of a time at which there was nothing anywhere;
-
Principle of Sufficient Reason (it makes no sense, not even potentially or in imagination, to speak about something existing or occurring for literally no reason; you can always ask of everything “why did it occur? Why is it what it is, rather than something else?)
-
something exists right now (this cannot logically or sanely be denied)
-
ergo, given 1 and 2, something has always existed
-
ergo, given 3, it makes no sense to posit or speak about a time or original state of “void” wherein nothing existed anywhere, ever, at all.
—-
Therefore, in my view anyway, something has always existed and this is an absolutely fundamental and undeniable Fact. So given this fact, to speak of void is to speak of a specific absence of something which already exists or which already existed. Void just means “hey this existing thing isn’t happening to be here anymore”.
As for chaos, I’ve stated how I define this. I don’t believe in an absolute chaos because that would imply an absolute lack (void) of order, which would make no sense. For any thing to exist or to be the case, it must have some sort of ordered-ness to it. Order simply means relations between, structure, being-ness; without such things, no thing could exist, since this is basically just describing what it means to exist anyway.
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:59 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pezer wrote:
And even that elemental Greek pool, kaoc, is only void un like a genetic almost mystical place, a transition between chaos and Gods and Stuff, not because chaos requires one, or there necessarily is one. Just because chaos includes it un its inscrutable infinity.
I like this.
Yeah this oq- it sounds Arabic.
Khalaq
Certain relatively chaotic beings.
tarmoq
roq.
Oq = death
to update suihelios
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:13 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I believe that ‘void’ is only meaningful in relation to something which is absent. Thus there must be “some thing” already, thus absolute void-as-such, in a universal or a priori sense, makes no sense. I see this also applying to chaos.
Absolutely. So the Zen Void, it makes sense then that it is attained, to simply something contemplated; a true void of awareness (which first took me several hours of energizing, yoga and then meditation to attain, which I did every day for six months) is attained through recognizing all things and aligning them all on precisely the same wavelength. Then, the brain relaxes to about a tenth of its normal effort in a sort of sigh, and can be silent in absolute bliss for hours. Just nothing except use empty roaming of objectless release of endorphins and what not.
This it is simply neurological emptiness of tensions. It has no bearing on any ontological realities. It is the mind which ceases to identify with its thoughts and withdraws in the suspense of disbelief, or the suspense of discernment, not because there is nothing but because there is more than enough, so it doesn’t matter whats what, and only in that carelessness before pure being, therein enjoying itself for its simple hearth, is this rapturous bliss of which angels are made to be enjoyed in a sensible, constant manner.
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I will give a brief overview of my argument for the meaninglessness if non-existence, or rather for the fact that something has always existed and it makes no sense to speak of a time at which there was nothing anywhere;
-
Principle of Sufficient Reason (it makes no sense, not even potentially or in imagination, to speak about something existing or occurring for literally no reason; you can always ask of everything “why did it occur? Why is it what it is, rather than something else?)
-
something exists right now (this cannot logically or sanely be denied)
-
ergo, given 1 and 2, something has always existed
-
ergo, given 3, it makes no sense to posit or speak about a time or original state of “void” wherein nothing existed anywhere, ever, at all.
Or, time is a possibility, and possibility has always existed - apparently. There are many ways to satisfy this question - but the one that finally satisfied me was “nothing has no power to enforce itself”.
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Therefore, in my view anyway, something has always existed and this is an absolutely fundamental and undeniable Fact. So given this fact, to speak of void is to speak of a specific absence of something which already exists or which already existed. Void just means “hey this existing thing isn’t happening to be here anymore”.
As for chaos, I’ve stated how I define this. I don’t believe in an absolute chaos because that would imply an absolute lack (void) of order, which would make no sense. For any thing to exist or to be the case, it must have some sort of ordered-ness to it. Order simply means relations between, structure, being-ness; without such things, no thing could exist, since this is basically just describing what it means to exist anyway.
Chaos go me now means the basic ground of all tectonic differentiation; the medium generated by self valuing principle through having multiple instances of itself, which is basically what self-valuings encounter when they are perpetuating themselves; it is as if it is the abyss between principle and manifestation.
Daath, in qabaliq order, would correspond to chaos.
One can only know chaos by traversing it, because to know it not-traversingly is not to exist.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:19 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
But it could be that as chaos, one traverses the rest of being and leaves fertile chaos in ones wake.
(ᚢ — Digging downward-forward. Ploughing through life and leaving fertile chaos and upheaval as a trail. Mammoth strength. Marching barbarian army. The synchronized heartbeats of a million soldiers. Drums in the deep.) (Uruz is the abyss from which the primordial waters of Laguz flow - Billian lore)
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What follows is that chaos means power.
To be considered chaotic means to not be controlled.
But since there is nothing that doesn’t consist of WtP, if it isn’t controlled it means it must be self-governed.
Throughout written history this has been the case, the apparitions of power dreams, the structures not known that can’t even be registered as proper structures, and yet don’t fail to conquer;
chaos is being as it comes in.
Humanity is chaos-resistance.
And all life is human in this way.
Chaos can be known, but only like light can be seen.
You can see where it just struck.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Power is a tolerance of chaos, and chaos is a tolerance of power.
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well it was a nice try anyway.
We may have better luck next time!
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I was going to announce that reply, but I figured Id let you have it.
But yeah, Im still irritated by how predictable you become when you see disobedience.
I tend to understand peoples intuitions better than they do, and thats not appreciated.
I guess Ill have to grant you time to incorporate this all into your language.
Nice setup, anyway.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Your chaos is still god. “Is it god?” no, god is dead.
It is the earth in which god was assimilated
You still fundamentally underestimate the depth of the principle, and the abyss that it represents.
Chaos is the result of necessity.
Chaos is not arbitrarily there, it has a character.
Existence isn’t bland faceless pasta. Necessity has a countenance.
Look to the left.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The God recognizes your offering.
Wik wrote:
Chaos theory
Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focusing on the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. ‘Chaos’ is an interdisciplinary theory stating that within the apparent randomness of chaotic complex systems, there are underlying patterns, constant feedback loops, repetition, self-similarity, fractals, self-organization, and reliance on programming at the initial point known as sensitive dependence on initial conditions
So VO is actually recognizably and paradigmatically the mathematical axiom of chaos.
I didn’t even realize how well it fits into the tradition of chaos-theory, how perfectly it completes it.
This solves the presentation problem. VO is axiomatic chaos theory.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:09 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
ACT
" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "
- Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pezer, you genius pathfinder.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:19 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Presently existing Chaos Theory can be defined as behavioural chaos theory.
Its mathematics are simulations.
Axiomatic chaos theory is the proper integrating and explicating algebra, gives what in geometry is a system of axes and the zero at its heart, except that it isn’t a zero but a self-valuing reference frame.
The curvature of the mapping of the progression of connecting self-valuing is the fractal.
I saw the basic implication a while ago;
“Gravity is subtle local derivative of the sort of value transaction constants offered as the motions of the planets with respect to one another with respect to their star with respect to its galactic center, with respect to what lies beyond into the vast ordering fractal Omega.” [Clockwork Blue]
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Science is cruel.
The ontological tyranny can not be broken.
It can merely be seen for what it is, and cultivated.
All of the ground is turning green
and Johnny is working on a big machine
ain’t much left for the working man to sing
(Uncle Walt’s Band, Getaway)
Thats what the episode ends with anyway.
For chaos theory, Silicon Valley is a good show.
Chaos is overwhelming odds which is why existence is heroic.
Daemonism usurps the chaotic to spit it out again, a whirling snake through lesser chains of probability, the kundalini eats chaos and breathes health into the realm.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
How to get from chaos to health is in circles.
Time becomes a flower anyway, so why not work with it.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:18 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
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Logic is the will to predict. Without it, nothing can live. We observe regularities, and note these and include them into a system of other already discovered regularities. This has allowed us to conclude so many things that we know even less than we did when we knew nothing, because we have been caged inside our regularities and predictions and all the as yet unclassified rages among us unseen, and causes havoc and the end of our world. Affectance-Storms, nuclear fallout from broken self valuings, splinters of the anentropic shells blasting through our world as it stumbles.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:59 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Chaos arises because of insufficient valuing, some of which is necessary and some of which isn’t.
There could be no chaos without an underlying and overlying order. Self-valuing is always inadequate to itself, to a degree, and has issues relating to other self-valuings; that is all chaos is. Complexity in both order and error and the necessities and contingencies of these.
Idealizing or metaphysicizing chaos is dumb, and will never justify anything like nihilism or apathy.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Im going to disregard the notion of chaos outside what it means in chaos-theory, which is basically waiting for VO to make sense out of it.
What chaos is in chaos theory is not a metaphysical entity as Pezer seems to envision it, some great All, but simply … self-valuing.
Let me explain. In chaos theory, the source of the chaotic behaviour of any kind of progression/form/environment is seen to be the initial state of that form; and the initial state is the reference frame in terms of which the environment is valued so as to amount to this particular progressing shape.
So what you get is an environment consisting of innumerable such initial states, all valuing each other in terms of he’s initial states, and this turns to reality, which indeed is highly fractalized.
I didn’t quite know yet how to approach VO to develop a mathematics out of it, that problem is now solved.
— indeed, the whole crux of this all is that synthetic self-valuing isn’t sufficient to itself. The field of excess this asymmetry produces through what could be simplified as friction, is “the world” which is fractalized, and “chaotic” in that sense.
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:27 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Right, basically there are numerous different tectonic layers of valuings-goings-on that are forced by proximity to interact with one another but which actually individually operate by totally different continent principles and patterns, so that chaos appears in the middle, rhizomes of earth. That’s world, nature. Then as you say, these all try to value each other to themselves producing exponentially more chaos but also reconciliations into meta orders.
Regardless of all that, there is no Chaos God, there is no metaphysic here, other than order, logic as such; SV. Logic is THE fundamental. Period.
Chaos is just a bastard stepchild of logic. And even buried inside every SV since as I said, it’s always going to be self-inadequate and self-inexpressible to some degree. That’s also why when we use philosophy to refine ourselves toward minimizing those two conditions of limit, the chaos in our world greatly declines.
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I’ll take a look at that math later.
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:31 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Meta tektoniks of inter-layer replications and rhizomatic proliferations daemonically bent through the eye of SV.
Dude, fuck chaos. Life is little more than making chaos one’s own biatch.
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Vikings know how to tame chaos.
Eat and drink like Ragnar, I say …”they said I’m the first of a species they call a real motjerfucker”.
I am the Alpha and the Omegle — order. Orderzzz
Logik , teh truthz. Yea I’m so fucking sick of bullshit. Over it. Done. So deal.
Mind ain’t no mystery son.
“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N
“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: If chaos, then what? Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Gotta agree with all that.
Chaos by itself is definitely not a true concept.
It only becomes conceptual with chaos-theory which ironically is a mathematics of increasing order, orders so intertwined and sensitive that they appear unpredictable.
They are so causally responsive that they even look chaotic.
Chaos as the summum of increasing order.