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Jakob · November 25, 2018, 11:22pm

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PostSubject: Spinoza’s Ethica, translation and interpretation Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:31 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I will start this book study at Part IV: On human bondage, or the power of affections.
For this subject is closest to the focus of philosophy of the 20th/21st century.
Step by step I will translate and offer a short commentary.
When I do not understand a passage I will formulate a question.

Legenda:

Baruch Spinoza
Pallas

DEFINITIONS

I. "As “good” I understand that, of which we know with certainty that it is useful to us.
II. As “evil” [bad, wrong] on the other hand that, of which we know with certainty that it obstructs us, in reach [attain] something good.

Evil is a function of good.
This means, that good and evil are not opposites.

III. Particular things I name “coincidental” [occurrent] in so far as we, discerning only their being, find nothing that necessitates their existence, nor necessarily precludes it.
IV. Those particular things I call “possible”, in so far as we, discerning the causes that must bring them to be, do not know if they are indeed forced to bring them about.

Coincidence and possibility are functions of different degrees of ignorance.

V. As “contradicting affections” I will in the future understand such affections, which pull the man in different directions, even if they are of the same kind, such as lust for splendor and greed, which are both forms of Love. They are not by nature, but by coincidental circumstances contradicting.

Why are lust for splendor and greed contradicting, and if they are, why can the cause of this not be discerned with certainty?

VII. As the “goal”, for the sake of which [the intention wherewith] we do something, I understand the drive.
VIII. As “virtue” [strength/force] and “potential” [power], I understand the same. In other words: Virtue [strength/force] is, in so far as she pertains to the man, mans being or nature itself, in so far as this possesses the potential [the power] to bring things about, which are completely obtainable from the laws of this nature.

A goal is a thing by which virtue and being are understood.

AXIOM

In the world of things there exists no particular thing, which can not be overpowered/surpassed by another thing that is more powerful/stronger.

Every good and evil is overpowered by the existence of the world.

Part of Fortune

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PostSubject: Re: Spinoza’s Ethica, translation and interpretation Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In the world of things there exists no particular thing, which can not be overpowered/surpassed by another thing that is more powerful/stronger.

I don’t quite get your interpretation/commentary of this axiom.

In this axiom Spinoza is indicating that the world is a Heraclitean contest of wills. Because every particular can be overpowered by another particular the universal can only be conceived of as the possible outcome of all possible contestations. Hence the idea of God as a substance with an infinite amount of attributes.

“By God, I mean a being absolutely infinite — that is, a substance consisting in infinite attributes, of which each expresses eternal and infinite essentiality.
Explanation — I say absolutely infinite, not infinite after its kind: for, of a thing infinite only after its kind, infinite attributes may be denied; but that which is absolutely infinite, contains in its essence whatever expresses reality, and involves no negation.”

To conceive of morality in a universal rather than particular sense would then necessitate a conception of the good as a theoretical configuration of these attributes, that is, as a particular organization of wills in which the structure of competing forces proves conducive to some force that is operating at the behest of a human agency. That structure is “reason” for Spinoza. Hence he says:

“Individual things are nothing but modifications of the attributes of God, or modes by which the attributes of God are expressed in a fixed and definite manner.”

“A body is called finite because we always conceive another greater body. So, also, a thought is limited by another thought, but a body is not limited by thought, nor a thought by body.”

When this structure is corrupted and the force which operates for the sake of the human being is oppressed by forces that are “bad,” that are inconducive to him, then we have the development of his “unhappy passions,” like greed, anger, etc. The Heraclitean image of the world as eternally generating and disintegrating fire is necessitated by this axiom, and the proposition of a purely immanent God of infinite attributes is necessary to uphold universal as opposed to merely particular morality.

A sik þau trûðu

Nisus ait, “Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?”

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man’s furious passion become his god?

Virgil.

It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: Spinoza’s Ethica, translation and interpretation Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:17 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pallas wrote:
I will start this book study at Part IV: On human bondage, or the power of affections.
For this subject is closest to the focus of philosophy of the 20th/21st century.
Step by step I will translate and offer a short commentary.
When I do not understand a passage I will formulate a question.

Legenda:

Baruch Spinoza
Pallas

DEFINITIONS

Here I will intersect.

Quote :
I. "As “good” I understand that, of which we know with certainty that it is useful to us.

Fallacy 1 -
“us”; ??? - a tautological definition around “good”. “We are” defined as being the object of “good”. Lol. Baruch you old Jew.

Affirmative as hell, but not philosophic enough for me!

Or… am I walking into seven ditches at once?

Quote :
Quote :
II. As “evil” [bad, wrong] on the other hand that, of which we know with certainty that it obstructs us, in reach [attain] something good.

Well how astute, Pallas. And wrong. Oppositions are functions of one another - qua opposition at least!
Evil is a function of the same thing of which good is a function; namely judgment.

“And he saw that it was good” -
Spinoza acts on faith.

And thus comes to the conclusion, as all come who act on faith, that : “it goes by itself” and “it is necessary precisely the way it is, and my will is implicit in that so it is only correct for me to will the world precisely as it is.”

All good - but the catch is now - what exactly is left of the will?
Reason has eaten it all from the plate of faith.

Lol.
Faith lever had it to begin with - philosophy is not faith based. We don’t “know that we know nothing” - I hate that pedantic nonsense, I hate Socrates - we simply don’t know what we don’t know, and we don’t know to the full extent what we assume - and often what we do know is hidden from us by our society. Hencde, we have friends in books, and in music and in the gods. (the gods are their temples and the toils and tears of their men and women and the blood of their sacrifces, no supernatural element can be divine as nature is god and god does does not have a supergod above him unless he would create one - but he can’t, because nature is not actually a whole and whoever ‘god’ is, he is fully enslaved to his own nature)

Quote :
III. Particular things I name “coincidental” [occurrent] in so far as we, discerning only their being, find nothing that necessitates their existence, nor necessarily precludes it.

Such a thing does not have “self-valuing”. An arbitrary clump of waste.

But few ‘things’ that we can point are as formless and coincidental and unique as well as unnoticed in their appearance as to match this criterion.

Quote :
IV. Those particular things I call “possible”, in so far as we, discerning the causes that must bring them to be, do not know if they are indeed forced to bring them about.

???
The causes we discern that must bring them about dont necessarily need to bring them about?
How then are they discerned?
They aren’t - that is what he was hiding behind the word “possible”.

'there are things, of which I haven’t the faintest clue what they are, and why they are, and when they occur - but all things have their cause, and the Cause of causes is God - this I know!

exactly the same blindsidedness Einstein fell prey to!

Indeed,

“Coincidence and possibility are functions of different degrees of ignorance.”

And to what lies behind this ignorance we must not necessarily, that I see, attribute the presumption “god”… yet “nature” is always accurate.

Therefore god does not equal nature.

Quote :

V. As “contradicting affections” I will in the future understand such affections, which pull the man in different directions, even if they are of the same kind, such as lust for splendor and greed, which are both forms of Love. They are not by nature, but by coincidental circumstances contradicting.

Juxtaposed, as all phenomena are. And all phenomena are “love” and juxtaposed - all are valuing in terms of self-valuing valuing, valuing a self into being.

Contradicting? Only in part. All contradictions form a unity against complexes that appear on the horizon simply because the cohesive power has been enhanced where symmetry-building tension is built .

The ‘lust’ for integrity. “Love”. The will to experience the entire world in the ways of ones own nature.

Thus I question you further Baruch, my fellow Amsterdammer who has gained such renown as being beyond the religious god… and yet now I am beyond you - and I discern that you havent understood your own God…

even though, in the depths of your philosphizing, you did discover a glimmer of his eye!

Dunamis…
But why not simpy call it “the holy spirit” or “Shekina”?
What is the difference after all?

“the unspeakable motivator inside the “thing””

But I have seen that there is no such thing. There is only the very speakable! In fact, speaking itself is always the naming of this very thing.

All this is a development of my initial question:

“Why are lust for splendor and greed contradicting, and if they are, why can the cause of this not be discerned with certainty?”

Quote :

VII. As the “goal”, for the sake of which [the intention wherewith] we do something, I understand the drive.
VIII. As “virtue” [strength/force] and “potential” [power], I understand the same. In other words: Virtue [strength/force] is, in so far as she pertains to the man, mans being or nature itself, in so far as this possesses the potential [the power] to bring things about, which are completely obtainable from the laws of this nature.

A goal is a thing by which virtue and being are understood.

For if it were not for the fixation on nature “itself” and “God”, you might have made Nietzsche unnecessary - but not before going through the bloody process of ripping the laws of mans nature from the spirit that places him in a predetermined whole. After all this is precisely what mans nature can not legislate - his own ‘existential necessity’. There is none. He just happens to exist, and in these terms, he can partake in several processes at once, all of which are ‘wholes’, and none of which are perfect.

Quote :
AXIOM

In the world of things there exists no particular thing, which can not be overpowered/surpassed by another thing that is more powerful/stronger.

Precisely because there is no whole, this does not follow from the nature of man.

It is possible, but not given.
It is possible that there is a supreme signifier, who, even though he is moved by all things around him, is not disturbed in his nature.

“Every good and evil is overpowered by the existence of the world.”

that is just poetry, old Pallas. Very Arcane, I’ll grant you that.

It reminds me of the dream I had, about the digging in the hillside, the city structure with the wooden overpasses where the books were sold by the semi-known old ladies. The sex that was in the air and not going to happen. The intimacy on the other side of the bridge. I remember it now, these weeks. What was that all about? America, I think.

See Baruch, it doesnt matter of a man attempts to grasp all that is, he still only grasps himself. You were just an arrogant little kid of a brilliant race, whose messiah complex, as all bright Jewish boys have it (as Ischa Meyer says!) compelled him to show the world what god was made of. Sheer intellectual power, that is what you impressed the goyim with. But not us! God is bigger than nature, because nature doesnt exist. Things have natures, god doesnt. God spills natures like a geysir spills droplets.

If God exists – but what is existence anyway?

God motivates me - therefore he exists!

Try to refute that, my atheist friends.

Part of Fortune

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PostSubject: Re: Spinoza’s Ethica, translation and interpretation Fri Oct 14, 2016 2:37 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Parodites wrote:
In the world of things there exists no particular thing, which can not be overpowered/surpassed by another thing that is more powerful/stronger.

I don’t quite get your interpretation/commentary of this axiom.

Me neither.

Quote :
In this axiom Spinoza is indicating that the world is a Heraclitean contest of wills. Because every particular can be overpowered by another particular the universal can only be conceived of as the possible outcome of all possible contestations. Hence the idea of God as a substance with an infinite amount of attributes.

“By God, I mean a being absolutely infinite — that is, a substance consisting in infinite attributes, of which each expresses eternal and infinite essentiality.
Explanation — I say absolutely infinite, not infinite after its kind: for, of a thing infinite only after its kind, infinite attributes may be denied; but that which is absolutely infinite, contains in its essence whatever expresses reality, and involves no negation.”

However, the idea that there is a perfect coherence to the world contradicts the idea of Heraclitean flux.

Quote :
To conceive of morality in a universal rather than particular sense would then necessitate a conception of the good as a theoretical configuration of these attributes, that is, as a particular organization of wills in which the structure of competing forces proves conducive to some force that is operating at the behest of a human agency. That structure is “reason” for Spinoza. Hence he says:

“Individual things are nothing but modifications of the attributes of God, or modes by which the attributes of God are expressed in a fixed and definite manner.”

“A body is called finite because we always conceive another greater body. So, also, a thought is limited by another thought, but a body is not limited by thought, nor a thought by body.”

There is very much wrong with this, to begin with the notion of finity and infinity and the distinction between thought and body. He annoyingly presumes that we all conceive of bodies as he does. But he didnt know what was to happen int he 20th century. At least Nietzsche didn’t concern himself with finity and infinity in terms of physics. It’s illogical, the two are the same. Every finite thing is infinite in all the terms that ‘infinity’ allows. Every ‘infinity’ that we address is y our very addressing it infinitely finite. And that, but reversed, is why infinity applies to finite things.

Quote :
When this structure is corrupted and the force which operates for the sake of the human being is oppressed by forces that are “bad,” that are inconducive to him, then we have the development of his “unhappy passions,” like greed, anger, etc. The Heraclitean image of the world as eternally generating and disintegrating fire is necessitated by this axiom, and the proposition of a purely immanent God of infinite attributes is necessary to uphold universal as opposed to merely particular morality.

Which is where it goes wrong, wouldn’t you say?

Part of Fortune
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PostSubject: Re: Spinoza’s Ethica, translation and interpretation Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:36 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
DEFINITIONS

I. "As “good” I understand that, of which we know with certainty that it is useful to us.
II. As “evil” [bad, wrong] on the other hand that, of which we know with certainty that it obstructs us, in reach [attain] something good.

This means, that good and evil are not opposites.

Not many years ago I accepted this thought as a replacement for dualistic thinking regarding ‘things in my life’. Useful/useless (to me).

Jakob · November 25, 2018, 11:26pm

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PostSubject: Ethics of Artifice Sun Oct 25, 2015 9:27 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Woman is naturely, man is godly. Woman only understands godliness, as man only understands naturality. Man ought to strive for better immitation of God, woman ought to strive for better immitation of nature, for as either will never understand what each is imitating, the click that eventually sounds conquest is what counterfeiting what one reflects anyway so as to reflect it better exists for. In the same sense, if women don’t up their standards men will continue to make shitty gods, and if men don’t up their standards women will continue to make shitty nature, unpure reflections. Though purity is unattainable, yet the imitation in seeking accuracy is art.

This is Pezer’s Ethics.

Jakob · November 25, 2018, 11:29pm

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PostSubject: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Morality does a few things, one of which is to create a new plane of significance for things. An easy example is when someone wrongs you somehow (let’s say a boss at work) and you take steps to correct it by talking to HR; now your boss makes some changes and tries to be a little better and might even apologize to you, they might even be sincere in the apology. All fine and good, but none of this is morality.

Morality comes in when you elevate the interaction and its resolution to a meaning and lasting significance beyond the bounds of the interaction and its resolution. You do this by, for example, continuing to feel the affront even after it has been resolved or by continuing to focus on the resolution and the rightfulness of how it was handled in a way that was adequate or not adequate; basically you force the situation and its meaning to linger beyond the situation itself. This is one function of morality. Morality activates certain meanings to new regions where they persist longer than otherwise they would.

This is both falsifying and truthful: it is faslfying because to a certain degree you must ignore the bounds of the interaction in the practical sense and you must also ignore to some degree the resolution. Statements or sentiments like “well they were wrong they should have apologized!” after the fact of the apology are examples of moral clinging that must in some way ignore the fact that the resolution took place. This has obvious psychological use but more importantly the truthful aspect of doing this falsifying of the practical dimension of the interaction/resolution is simply that in terms of the meaning of the interaction/resolution that meaning doesn’t go away, but lasts for eternity in the pure timeless realm of the meaningful as such, as a Fact of significance. When you falsify something its practical dimensions and its resolution you nonetheless do this in order to pay fidelity to the eternal (outside of time) meaningfulness behind the interaction and its resolution.

This moral extension as fidelity to the Eternal of meaning is therefore a certain kind of remembering: one remembers and continues to hold as significant the meaning and fact of something long after that ‘something’ has ended, or even concluded satisfactorily.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
That’s an elegant and highly effective definition.
Beyond that it is practical and itself free of moral judgment, I wouldn’t say it is extremely Nietzschean, as if there is any place where N gets moral and superfluous in meaning it is in defining morality, which is why he then vomits it out, I think. Not his forte.

However I would like to address what, in this practical definition of what morality is, a Nietzschean morality is.

As is said, a morality stretches out the significant of an event beyond itself.
The significance of that event (to the selfvaluing) we may call its moral value.

So what is a moral value that stretches out beyond its own event, in a Nietzschean?

The answer is very convenient and clear: Pride.

As a Nietzschean, I have upheld this morality. When someone adds to my pride, that is ths philosophical pride I am talking about, that person acquires a value that pertains to a greater Value, namely the great signifier of morality, which is the capacity for pride.
Nietzschean pride is possibly the most comprehensive pride so far, as it extends to areas like factuality. A man like say ‘turd ferguson’ as boastful as he is, has no pride, in this sense, as he has no joy in addressing things factually.

When someone negatively addresses my (philosophic) Pride, that person becomes, in my psychological-emotional system, a non-entity. I take massive delight in deconstructing that entity in my mind, and seeing the weaknesses by which it hangs together. I can do this with most persons, but with someone who gives to show that he does not uphold Pride, as I do it, and is even ready to compromise it, this is what automatically begins to happen. His soul begins to disintegrate before my minds eye. If I choose to speak out, this then causes ripples of un-pride across the paradigm, ripples that touch the nerve of Nietzschean pride everywhere.

For as such, as defined as you have it, morality spreads through and lives in the world - when the code is challenged, it becomes active.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:53 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The ‘cause’ of pride in a practical sense is pleasure, albeit a complex, and non homogenous kind.

The impulse first of all of creating pride, is a pleasure.
I am going by the definition of the OP which is the best Ive ever seen, I realize while using it.

The pleasure is created in exacerbating the sentiment about the event, and magnifying it, shaping it as a full form of consciousness - making the feeling (of in/justice) into an Idea. This is the will to power, and perhaps in its gravest, most human sense.

To create a morality in this way, by feeling something, and then allowing the feeling to become an objectifying, magnetizing, ‘shaping’ eternal, this is ruthless.
Most of such power comes as revenge. But it is also a revenge against oneself. As, as one feels very clearly when such a thing is allowed/pushed into being, one surrenders ones own independence to it.

As a child, a boy at least, it is near impossible to not create such morality. I would say that no man grows up without it. Thus, no man is without it. And therefore, it is wise to develop this moral-creating power toward consciousness of nature of the joy behind it; and that brings us to the sensibility of a Nietzschean morality; a moral attitude toward morality - the attitude toward morality being the same as that very morality; ‘recurring affirmation’ ; naked pride in value-creating.

I believe this is closely related to the concept of Evil, as it has existed among humans; a morality that has managed to own up to itself and thus separating from the body of society, ‘Lucifer’ separating from ‘god’, by drawing his entire moralizing nature into itself. This can never happen in a judgmental-rejecting human; that is not integer but conditional self-valuing, it is always psychotic and self-splitting. But in a drawing-in-affirming morality, if self-reference of the morality-creating pleasure/drive happens, the person becomes free to himself. For this state of “I am the way and the light and the truth” I have reserved the term “free will”.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:31 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Interesting connection between these two: pride and morality.

Morality: doing the right thing. As the Wicca say: harm none. I always add: without just cause. Of course we would have to define “just cause”.

Pride comes in different flavors. Some people take pride in doing the wrong thing or totally selfish things at the cost of others.

I think both are Nietzschean concepts though.
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 5:37 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes pride is connected to the self-valuing structures, so if those structures are deranged, damaged, insane or pathological then it is certainly possible for such a person to take pride in otherwise “immoral” acts.

The pride of the immoralist is probably something Nietzsche wrote about somewhere but I can’t recall any specific passages.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
The ‘cause’ of pride in a practical sense is pleasure, albeit a complex, and non homogenous kind.

The impulse first of all of creating pride, is a pleasure.
I am going by the definition of the OP which is the best Ive ever seen, I realize while using it.

The pleasure is created in exacerbating the sentiment about the event, and magnifying it, shaping it as a full form of consciousness - making the feeling (of in/justice) into an Idea. This is the will to power, and perhaps in its gravest, most human sense.

To create a morality in this way, by feeling something, and then allowing the feeling to become an objectifying, magnetizing, ‘shaping’ eternal, this is ruthless.
Most of such power comes as revenge. But it is also a revenge against oneself. As, as one feels very clearly when such a thing is allowed/pushed into being, one surrenders ones own independence to it.

As a child, a boy at least, it is near impossible to not create such morality. I would say that no man grows up without it. Thus, no man is without it. And therefore, it is wise to develop this moral-creating power toward consciousness of nature of the joy behind it; and that brings us to the sensibility of a Nietzschean morality; a moral attitude toward morality - the attitude toward morality being the same as that very morality; ‘recurring affirmation’ ; naked pride in value-creating.

I believe this is closely related to the concept of Evil, as it has existed among humans; a morality that has managed to own up to itself and thus separating from the body of society, ‘Lucifer’ separating from ‘god’, by drawing his entire moralizing nature into itself. This can never happen in a judgmental-rejecting human; that is not integer but conditional self-valuing, it is always psychotic and self-splitting. But in a drawing-in-affirming morality, if self-reference of the morality-creating pleasure/drive happens, the person becomes free to himself. For this state of “I am the way and the light and the truth” I have reserved the term “free will”.

This is fascinating how you already exploded this idea upward and outward. I agree to your observations in both posts, although I have an issue with associating “Evil” in the way you do. I’m familir with the Lucifer-freedom argument, but I don’t agree with it. The reason I don’t agree is because of how this argument is self-referential and closed-circular: freedom as “being free” or defining morality or immorality entirely in terms of freedom doesn’t add anything new to these ideas, it simply acknowledges that a freeing has taken place. Similarly I see this logical problem with the will to power, an empty definitional circularity of defining will to power simply in terms of (more) will to power.

Philosophy isn’t yet at the point of explicating the hard-real depths of meaning from which distinctions like moral/immoral truly come. But we know those depths exist even if we cannot logically specify them, thus it is important to avoid falsely reifying concepts like freedom or will to power in such ways as impose empty circular reasoning that would serve to close us off to those depths.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:13 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I agree. The depths must be even though it will be tricky getting there.
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The other problem with the Lucifer/freedom thing (or with will to power for its own sake) is that this can be used to justify anything at all so long as you convert something into the terms of either “freedom” or “will”. Want to rape puppies or murder babies or cannibalize people or institute a global fascism or become a terrorist or commit genocide or join the KKK or just pick any group or person at all and decide to murder them? Sure Lucifer/freedom and the will to power are nice ready made ideas that can easily support that. Obviously I’m not saying that the idea-constructs Lucifer/freedom or will to power would necessarily move in any ideas those directions-- I am saying that nothing about those two idea-constructs prevents or argue against any of those things, which is that I’m actually making a deeper point about how these idea-constructs, because of their self-closed form, are entirely cut off from the real contents of the individual beings (people, selves, self-valuings, etc.) who would use or make use of those idea-constructs.

Such reified structures of self-closure are simply good when they are good, and bad when they are bad, which is because they are whatever they are depending on the conditions and contents that actually determine any specified instance of them, a specified instance of conditions/contents which incidentally the idea-construct itself cannot even formulate except by blindly converting everything into a term for itself. “Quantum of power” or “quantum of freedom” for example. What is so noble about the idea-construct of Self-Valuing is that it avoids these pitfalls, because self-valuing incorporates references to the depths which outpace a self itself. Converting everything hypothetically into “values” doesn’t falsify in the same way as does doing this with freedom or power. Value both indicates directly where and how it applies qua value-instance as well as leaves open space for what is not able to be correctly indicated like that.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:41 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah we all know which route through the idea N took. He chose the easy way through “the bog” here, because it’s self-contained self-referential and thus easily always defensible in terms of ‘hard form logic’. Doesn’t mean he was right, and in fact he only made it partly through because he stuck to a certain path. If you want to get closer to the true and deeper subjectivity mechanisms behind “morality” you’re going to need to read someone like Hegel. But Nietzsche’s essentially ideological approache here seems to be enough for many people, because really all they are looking for is a purely defensibly-“clear” position (I.e. something that requires no further effort and yields “certainty”).

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:43 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
As Fixed states or implies, Nietzsche abandons his own high naturalizing philosophical project precisely at the threshold of “the moral”. Likely this is because N was stuck in deeply Christian times.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
This is fascinating how you already exploded this idea upward and outward. I agree to your observations in both posts, although I have an issue with associating “Evil” in the way you do. I’m familir with the Lucifer-freedom argument, but I don’t agree with it. The reason I don’t agree is because of how this argument is self-referential and closed-circular: freedom as “being free” or defining morality or immorality entirely in terms of freedom doesn’t add anything new to these ideas, it simply acknowledges that a freeing has taken place. Similarly I see this logical problem with the will to power, an empty definitional circularity of defining will to power simply in terms of (more) will to power.

Philosophy isn’t yet at the point of explicating the hard-real depths of meaning from which distinctions like moral/immoral truly come. But we know those depths exist even if we cannot logically specify them, thus it is important to avoid falsely reifying concepts like freedom or will to power in such ways as impose empty circular reasoning that would serve to close us off to those depths.

I agree that freedom has yet to be invented. What I gave as “Lucifer” is indeed a hollow vessel, that does not add freedom-content. It’s just the affirmative morality vis a vis ones own moral (‘lying’, ‘imagining’) powers, that I just realize is pretty natural to connect to the Lucifer image. But I did not mean to make a qualitative statement.

The word “evil” to me is a weird phenomenon, I dont know what to use it for personally.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:07 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
The other problem with the Lucifer/freedom thing (or with will to power for its own sake) is that this can be used to justify anything at all so long as you convert something into the terms of either “freedom” or “will”. Want to rape puppies or murder babies or cannibalize people or institute a global fascism or become a terrorist or commit genocide or join the KKK or just pick any group or person at all and decide to murder them? Sure Lucifer/freedom and the will to power are nice ready made ideas that can easily support that. Obviously I’m not saying that the idea-constructs Lucifer/freedom or will to power would necessarily move in any ideas those directions-- I am saying that nothing about those two idea-constructs prevents or argue against any of those things, which is that I’m actually making a deeper point about how these idea-constructs, because of their self-closed form, are entirely cut off from the real contents of the individual beings (people, selves, self-valuings, etc.) who would use or make use of those idea-constructs.

Such reified structures of self-closure are simply good when they are good, and bad when they are bad, which is because they are whatever they are depending on the conditions and contents that actually determine any specified instance of them, a specified instance of conditions/contents which incidentally the idea-construct itself cannot even formulate except by blindly converting everything into a term for itself. “Quantum of power” or “quantum of freedom” for example. What is so noble about the idea-construct of Self-Valuing is that it avoids these pitfalls, because self-valuing incorporates references to the depths which outpace a self itself. Converting everything hypothetically into “values” doesn’t falsify in the same way as does doing this with freedom or power. Value both indicates directly where and how it applies qua value-instance as well as leaves open space for what is not able to be correctly indicated like that.

Perhaps as a further analogy, we might speculate that the term/logic “value” as centering/substantiating Power/Freedom into the direct reference to an experiential reality, a perspective, in fact ties “Lucifer”, the unconditioned and hollow “freedom for its own sake”, back to “god”… lol.

I dont know.
Just an intuition of a path opening up.

“God” then of course as a kind of Earth. True Value; no doubt related to sickness/bound-ness, and all its ‘antitheses’ -
“freedom-as-such” is perhaps the ultimate prison. Perhaps with pure freedom, all one can do is break into Value by rape, as one is in fact not tied by/backed by any Value of oneself.

To be valued is obviously not a Luciferian aim; but it is the sole aim of “god”, given by how he publishes about himself… haha… well, all of it has been tossed out and is dirtier than trash - but a way to reappropriate “god” might be simply as a conditioner to freedom/power to concrete and verifiable Value.

I suppose this is the very way in which I address gods, or am addressed by them; as paths into life, from the void created by the modern Ideal Of Freedom (an empty placeholder, around which all effort is regulated and by which ‘name’/‘key’ it is extracted for extraneous purposes) rather toward a center of proper human making, i.e. philosophy, which virtuously regulates effort without then extracting it from the intention that generated the effort.

“God” then is simply what we now will create; a new center of Value, a new recepticle for excess, we first envisioned it as a Totem.
It is a reference to the possibility of Absolute existence within a Relative world.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:36 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Evil is the lack of any rational conscience.
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC wrote:
Perhaps with pure freedom, all one can do is break into Value by rape, as one is in fact not tied by/backed by any Value of oneself.

Pure speculation. Who has pure freedom so that we can be clued in?
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:46 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
There is an absolute within the subjectivity relative content-world/s, but the confusion becomes that this absolute is not absolutely inviolable or given. Logic holds that the absolute is to be the most vulnerable thing in existence.

The fact that morality cannot be perfectly-clearly explicated and often falls victim to weird paradoxes of choice and conflicting or seemingly contingent values-needs is misinterpreted to mean that morality is not “objective”. Morality itself is perfectly objective. It is humans who aspire to that objectivity because human is a being created by morality, not the other way around.

But we must be clear that objective morality and the fragile absolute which pursues it does not mean that this morality is applicable universally across all values-situations, nor that the/an absolute (closely what we call “the self”) should ever be taken as a given. Language matches being, which is problematic since language also helps create that being which then will work to match itself to it.

Nietzsche’s mostly honest concept is the revaluation of all values. This revaluation is always taking place and is already the basis of human being; but again, we don’t know how to say so. And the human world is still far too inhuman.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:06 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
FC wrote:
Perhaps with pure freedom, all one can do is break into Value by rape, as one is in fact not tied by/backed by any Value of oneself.

Pure speculation. Who has pure freedom so that we can be clued in?

Well, I was of course still using it in terms of the Lucifer metaphor.

It is a purely speculative entity; this was Capable’s point. It has no specific quality.
Thence “rape” ; the impersonal partaking in someones (self-)Value.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Myki2 wrote:
Quote :
The fact that morality cannot be perfectly-clearly explicated

In another words you have absolutly no idea what are you talking about !

Morality = Human psychological “chains” , an easy smooth nice and sweet explication that everybody can understand.

Extremely wrong, Myki.

“Explicate” does not mean “explain” like it does in French.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:18 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
There is an absolute within the subjectivity relative content-world/s, but the confusion becomes that this absolute is not absolutely inviolable or given. Logic holds that the absolute is to be the most vulnerable thing in existence.

Yes, it needs to be built; life is an approximation, philosophy is a further approximation. Unfragile life like reptilian life is a consolidated distance from the absolute. Warm blood creeps closer to the absolute.

Quote :
The fact that morality cannot be perfectly-clearly explicated and often falls victim to weird paradoxes of choice and conflicting or seemingly contingent values-needs is misinterpreted to mean that morality is not “objective”. Morality itself is perfectly objective. It is humans who aspire to that objectivity because human is a being created by morality, not the other way around.

But we must be clear that objective morality and the fragile absolute which pursues it does not mean that this morality is applicable universally across all values-situations, nor that the/an absolute (closely what we call “the self”) should ever be taken as a given. Language matches being, which is problematic since language also helps create that being which then will work to match itself to it.

Nietzsche’s mostly honest concept is the revaluation of all values. This revaluation is always taking place and is already the basis of human being; but again, we don’t know how to say so. And the human world is still far too inhuman.

Do not human nature and morality coincide? It is not that one creates the other, but that one is human in as far as one is consumed in a moral process; a narrative, a Life rather than a life-form, as self-valuing. Time included; this is morality’s scheme.
Hence we create objectivity, why boys like science as well as competition; Einstein just won the game that boys play; and he configured the absulute physically as purely fragile, and could not live with this.

“God doesn’t play dice”

“Father, don’t be such a pussy!”

He could not withstand the pure fragility of the truth; his formula is pure flexibility, and has no way of drawing the marble, or human, or tragic, or subsumed lines between the contexts it takes the center of.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:22 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ah, I seem to like this definition of evil: (relatively great) consolidated distance to the Absolute.

Evil thus operates in greater uncertainty, that is to say, license…
but also structurally fails to attain control.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
To me that definition (“definition of evil: (relatively great) consolidated distance to the Absolute”) sounds like a definition of bravery.

Evil is indeed very hard to define clearly. We could go N’s route and claim it doesn’t exist. This has the benefit of needing no further explication or inquiry; the lazy-man route that soon to be banned trolls like Myki prefer.

But I am not convinced there are not deep, penetrating structural differences between what is called evil and mere ignorance, savage disregard of the content-lattice underneath salient acting self-value, or psychopathological madness (critical breakdown of consciousness/reason). In fact let’s work on a hypothesis that taken together these three aspects, individually or together, are what is really meant by the word “evil”.

Freedom for its own sake is clearly abandoned for being unable to speak to contents, except as retroactive justification in the form of historical revisionism. Nietzsche may have liked this. But a only one-way relationship to freedom’s own contents as being qua value represents a grossly distorted form of humanity. The constellation of values-interests is powered by an emergent quality that cannot be reduced to those “self interests” but attains in emergence something greater, a rational-logical capacity that might even be called the birth of philosophy as such.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 2:56 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hi-D wrote:
Evil is the lack of any rational conscience.

The idea that evil is fundamentally a lack is interesting and not something I can dispute yet. But I’m working on the assumption that evil has a more positivistic character as well. I’m also open to the possibility that evil is just a name for a certain kind of collection of values-self-distortions that is of course able to cling to a semblance of self-interest, as any lifeform at all does; even non-living things cling to a semblance of self-interest.

Perhaps evil is rock-(un)consciousness transposed somehow into a human mind-emulation.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:02 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This was very annoying, having to delete all these posts. I was just about to warn him to stay in his thread when he had suddenly infested the place.

I am against the insertion of “rational” into the antithesis of “evil” unless most of nature is rational, which would come down to a James S Saintian definition of reason. Namely that which works so as to survive and thrive; being itself would then be reasonable, and evil a kind of exception to it. This is Biblical.

Evil as a lack is something I wont dispute but I fear it only as a positive accumulation of deranged excess.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:03 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Obviously we cannot discount N’s contribution to properly naturalizing theory here: much of what people call “evil” is just a “bad” with which they happen to not agree, don’t feel comfortable to or do not benefit from personally. But philosophers are in the business of seeking truths, not avoiding them.

We build from N and keep going.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:05 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
We are in agreement on all points you just raised, Fixed.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:05 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Nietzsche’s definition of evil is very simple in fact: that which is too strong.

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:06 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Obviously we cannot discount N’s contribution to properly naturalizing theory here: much of what people call “evil” is just a “bad” with which they happen to not agree, don’t feel comfortable to or do not benefit from personally. But philosophers are in the business of seeking truths, not avoiding them.

We build from N and keep going.

Evilly.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:06 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Nietzsche’s definition of evil is very simple in fact: that which is too strong.

I cannot accept this definition. It is categorically indistinguishable from a definition of Good. I must push to the content-logic, into the depths.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:07 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Beyond good and evil thus means: where the distinction no longer applies.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
N was singularly polemical against (modern) Christianity. I read his comments on good and evil as almost entirely in this light.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:11 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, we must substantiate it.
Evil is however necessarily a part of that which the good builds.

thinking-building involves evil. But it must stay clean of its logics, if these rise from a lack.
But perhaps it needs to purify the notion of it so as for it to be proper cement.
The criminal world serves usually as the specie between the layers and instruments of power, as medium, plasma.

It is not necessarily evil, at all though -

evil is however purely a qualification. Is it not?

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:18 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I see criminality as a working compromise between irreconcilable socio-valuational elements. I know what motivates much crime is simply “lack of self” combined with fear-pressure (peer-pressure), through which a species of compensatory will to power crowns itself.

Everything worthy of the name ‘human self-valuing’ is already in a certain real sense “beyond good and evil”, even Biblical psyches cannot escape that. But this shouldn’t be mistaken for thinking that good and evil don’t exist or still hold no force and substance-meaning over human self-valuing.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:21 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Therefore the obvious consequent insight: much “evil” is not really evil (and much good is not really “good”).

Human self-valuing rides the grooves and tectonic molecularity of irreconcilable situation-dynamics; it does this with grace and style, and joy.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:23 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
N was singularly polemical against (modern) Christianity. I read his comments on good and evil as almost entirely in this light.

Yes, he explicates its genesis as the transition from the Hebrew particularist monotheism to the Christian Universalism;
and he ‘blames’ this on the genius-of-hardness of the Jews and the weakness of the people who became the Church; the eunuchs and such, ‘advisors’.

What happened, for those who haven’t read N, is that tje Jews, when conquered, simply intellectually decided that they had in fact won, but only in the future. This is precisely what creating a morality is; it is the action that is explained in the OP. So then they waited, and voila, some thousands years later, shakalazam - kerrpow. One jew invents banking, the next one invents the atomic bomb, the nation is restored, all’s good in the hood. Morality, It works.
If you know your way around an anvil.

In the meantime, the Christians adopted the Jewish god, had him kill their … son, king, great person, and insurrect himself in themselves - and then all sorts of manners of consequences came to co exist with one another in the soul, that was then built, out of a pure negativity consumed in itself; the god of the other ruling all through killing his son and this being the eternal good; suchly the Roman and the German and the Slav and Celt and Visigoth souls were stirred into what Parodites makes understood as the soul, as it presently lives - of which Nietzsche is an extreme consequence, but not the greatest consequence; what lies beyond Nietzsche is extra-Christian, but the West is entirely Christian, and thus so is the world. N can only be a small preserve of rare plants, on top of a Christian world; or at the heart of it, as its contradiction perhaps, its magnetizing masculine, as the Earth is thereby feminized and fertilized and finally revered as a mother - what bliss this will be for mankind, to simply know the strength of his ground, and what that means to all notions of love that have existed so far - with science, Man has access to an immense love now - but also to an absolute indifference. What separates them - perhaps evil is this very thin line itself…

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:26 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Another important point to examine: a question: Is non-philosophical human self-valuing capable of having upright-accurate intuitions/intimations of “good and evil”? Nietzsche would probably say no. I would say yes. I believe self-valuing as a concept proves the Yes here, by explaining how this is possible (I.e. Traditional pre-VO philosophy does not explain the genesis-cause for philosophy itself). (Although I must excerpt Parodites’ philosophy from that critique.)

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:32 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Another important point to examine: a question: Is non-philosophical human self-valuing capable of having upright-accurate intuitions/intimations of “good and evil”? Nietzsche would probably say no. I would say yes. I believe self-valuing as a concept proves the Yes here, by explaining how this is possible (I.e. Traditional pre-VO philosophy does not explain the genesis-cause for philosophy itself). (Although I must excerpt Parodites’ philosophy from that critique.)

I see it rather as pointing to a need of full particular explication of self-valuing through philosophy and then tier by tier outward through law/art distinction into science and culture - and I see us as having attained such a core of self-valuing proper, that is to say a synthesis of the phenomenon under the cognitive-tectonic Law of self-valuing - the logic qua its legislative potential which must be activated for anything other than aberration to come from any institution.

I believe the law of increase of entropy is logically identical to the law of increase of bureaucracy. They both describe a state where self-valuing is attempted without structural integrity.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 3:35 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thus all institutions so far have been at best tragic.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:27 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Institutions are very weird things.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:33 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Precisely.

That is not necessarily bad.

If we form them in terms of weirdness, they just might work.

Jakob · November 25, 2018, 11:30pm

What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi7vCEQZbU8[/youtube]

Vast Ordering
Fractal

Porous Metaphysical Superstructure
Speculative Cosmos
Chaos 2.0

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thinking about it, I don’t care much for the word/concept of “moral”.

Nietzsche constantly spoke against the morality of his time - what he view as hypocritical Christian morality.

“Beyond good and evil” was a attempt to rise above this corrupt morality.

Perhaps a better concept is “value”? The values of the individual. The will to have the power to live one’s life at a higher, and more free, state.
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:01 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:

Vast Ordering
Fractal

Porous Metaphysical Superstructure
Speculative Cosmos
Chaos 2.0

I like this. Very relaxing and calming in a mental way.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Institutions strip individuality from people, like stripping flesh from bone. Institutions are probably necessary, but what the fuck are they really?

Institution-ism blurs the line between self-life and work-life. “Work life balance” they call it today, usually with a good dose of cynically irony and the half smile you give to a kid who asks about Santa.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Activity creates what will be used by others to support their own passivity. To exist in the furnace of the threshold actively creating new things is different from existing behind the curve to chew up whatever happens to fall to earth from the active mind. This is why good writers make writing look easy-- because it only looks easy to us, the passive ones before their work. To the writer, his own work never “looks easy”.

Institutions attempt to raise passivity to the level of activity. This is “transhumanism” par excellence. It is no surprise or coincidence at all how modern capitalism and business environment wants to become “trans-friendly”. “Trans” is the ethos of the Corporation. Discrete individuals are not allowed to exist within it; only images of individuals are tolerated, and only just barely.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Activity creates what will be used by others to support their own passivity. To exist in the furnace of the threshold actively creating new things is different from existing behind the curve to chew up whatever happens to fall to earth from the active mind. This is why good writers make writing look easy-- because it only looks easy to us, the passive ones before their work. To the writer, his own work never “looks easy”.

Institutions attempt to raise passivity to the level of activity. This is “transhumanism” par excellence. It is no surprise or coincidence at all how modern capitalism and business environment wants to become “trans-friendly”. “Trans” is the ethos of the Corporation. Discrete individuals are not allowed to exist within it; only images of individuals are tolerated, and only just barely.

Technically institution-ism is a “mental illness”, if you talk to peoole with severe schizo you see they almost always have delusions about the government, “the system”, corporations, they can’t handle bureaucracy at all because it affects them to the core; and many of them talk with technical jargon and business-speak quite naturally, and in inappropriate times, as a way of compensating for the deep damage that has been done to them by institutional logic.

There is some small recognition of this kind of damage, called “revictimization through system encounter”. But this awareness exists mostly to help institution-ism become more friendly-seeming and subtle in its deceptions. I can’t see institutions ever truly acknowledging the damage they do to people.

Analytic philosophy is the attempt to institutionalize philosophy, thus academic philosophy naturally becomes highly “analytic”. This is its comfort zone. And there is no “morality” anywhere in any of this – morality is a strictly human, which is to say objective, affair.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:07 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:

Institutions attempt to raise passivity to the level of activity. This is “transhumanism” par excellence. It is no surprise or coincidence at all how modern capitalism and business environment wants to become “trans-friendly”. “Trans” is the ethos of the Corporation. Discrete individuals are not allowed to exist within it; only images of individuals are tolerated, and only just barely.

Hard reality, what?
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:12 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
I can’t see institutions ever truly acknowledging the damage they do to people.

Chuang Tzu said that about institutions in China 2400 years ago. Seems that few listened.
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Institutions strip individuality from people, like stripping flesh from bone. Institutions are probably necessary, but what the fuck are they really?

Institution-ism blurs the line between self-life and work-life. “Work life balance” they call it today, usually with a good dose of cynically irony and the half smile you give to a kid who asks about Santa.

Yes - it is halfheartedness. The first nominal institutions were always populated by eunuchs, it seems. I think a bureaucrat is somehow the equivalent of a eunuch.

However, we can build a non bureaucratic institution- a first perhaps - taking VO as the institutional center-self-valuing and valuing designated parts of our work purely in terms of it, as we’ve been doing quite consciously up here of course, why we made things like the Pentad and the Tower, which emptiness is testament to its functioning, just as the Pentads sporadic action clearly pushes philosophy forth seismically. VO is capable of being an institution (it even brings about institutions entirely dedicated to discrediting it, thereby building interest in it) that serves only to create space for a philosopher to do his own bidding. So that a man like Parodites can be supported by an institution, which means that he commands that institutions standards - as with VO It is simply the highest standard that brings all others under it. It is thus not an empty placeholder but a container of an asymptotically approached absolute; the value of value, the standard of standard - these work ‘magically’ - that is to say as fully potentiating every intent that is addressed at it qua its logic, that is to say, properly. VO commands “standard-as-such”…

shit.

Thats hard.

And that is why I can safely let a Parodites roam the skies above me as I chop the wood for a fire, just as I can let you be a thundercloudscape as I put together an engine, or I can follow Pezers field-directions, or dance with the ultimate discord that Sauwelios creates in peoples hearts, hahaha – that guy. He will always remain unfathomable. He truly lives with the goddesses. This is why he is so utterly undriven to be assertive; is existence itself is an assertion against all things that are around him. Generally it is accepted as a very mild, elevating, soothing, cultivating presence - no one who is in a room with Sauwelios can not like him - and he can not not suffer anyone - but online it is the opposite. He suffers no one, and no one is allowed truly close. Except I, since I have conquered with VO - but it was only when I had accidentally managed to cause him to stray onto his own path into it that I truly believed VO could rule. S understands N as Nietzsche understood himself, I think. I think also this is why he takes all these vast circular roads around the hot core - compare it to Eris’ orbit. The aim is to be both the Sun and the most distant satellite. In astrology, Pluto is assigned to subterranean power (‘control’, ‘minerals’, ‘sex in art’, etc), Eris isnt assigned to much yet beyond being given that name - not unfittingly, as as she entered Aries, long before she was discovered, the age of global wars began - she is not far from entering Taurus now, and I am certain that this will be the time that the Earth will come to fall into actual possession of discrete groups, whoever are the most capable two and a half (meta-)parties, Rulerships, Ideologies, Values by then. (I think this number is the lock - two on equal terms qua quantum of power in their own right, and a third that is needed by both to take from the other what they need. This ‘half’ is the resolution of the idea of the zero, and it is thus also clear which party is gong to represent this middle; this is perhaps the same as this ‘evil’ or ‘courage’ of the consolidated distance from the absolute; the absolute freedom of Arabs as traders, the engine to their religious might, their sheer manners, standards of transaction, the awareness that wealth is in transaction) But possession is a concept that only the Chinese and the English seem to understand effectively in global terms. Why Hong Kong was the ennobling center of cold war economy. In Europe, it is the Austrians and Northern Italians. Switzerland and Germany their antipodes. Switzerland understands possession entirely locally, is the most genius selfvaluing on the planet, the oldest nation of the west and also the only one unconquered. It is host to Nestle and Cern, secret banking, (naturally they just moved to a deeper layer of secrecy when they ‘gave up the secrets’- pruned the tree of wealth to grow much taller) and if there s any nation that knows it will keep forever conquering it is the Swiss. Ive been held by them for some hours on my way through, the way they carry their automatic weapons in their basically lederhosen-uniforms is just too comfortable. They also have the highest heroin addiction rate. You are either filthy rich powerborker or absolutely off the grid. Switzerland is slowly assimilating Europe to itself and using Germany as the plasma. And thats perfectly natural, because it is the center of the continent and they have bloody well earned it with their war record, and back this up with inventions like the Swiss army knife, perhaps the singular Object of this world, precisely in its phallic multifariousness () and sheer applicability. Man is a tool to create tools, said Bergson I believe, or a tool to create tools to create tools… not that I agree, but the Swiss know how to work this definition. I do not admire them. They have no culture and a filthy dialect in all their 4 languages. I admire the Austrians, who are the cultural center of the continent, and somehow merge into the Swiss in the Alps after Innsbruck… I once drove to Italy over Innsbruck and had a steak with berries and whipped cream on a mountainside terrace, and felt for the first time that I had found ‘the good place’ - not as in great exaltation, but as in utterly unto-itself. Happening to be quite high up and amidst brook-veined forest. Then I passed down into Italy!!!

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:14 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:

Vast Ordering
Fractal

Porous Metaphysical Superstructure
Speculative Cosmos
Chaos 2.0

I like this. Very relaxing and calming in a mental way.

I tended to slip into mushroom trips using that record.

This one is deadly clean, different trip altogether. I remember having it on a discman in a trip once (I had decided to be a french king on a walk), in a sandbox I ruined the discman, for which Sauwelios kept ridiculing me, but of which I was simply proud as I had experienced it as the perfect place for an object to come to its end - after having fulfilled the ultimate function to guide me in a trip. I’ve still never heard anyone to match the sheer saturation of their sound-objects. They were rumored to have been synthesizing their sounds on opium.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkyECLbJswM[/youtube]

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:32 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Thinking about it, I don’t care much for the word/concept of “moral”.

Nietzsche constantly spoke against the morality of his time - what he view as hypocritical Christian morality.

“Beyond good and evil” was a attempt to rise above this corrupt morality.

Perhaps a better concept is “value”? The values of the individual. The will to have the power to live one’s life at a higher, and more free, state.

I do find that Parodites and Capable are on to vital fleshed out notions of morality beyond what N took on himself – we must accept that N perished even of how much he took on, his plan was never for himself to carry the entirety of his philosophy; he spent himself fully so as to become a seed. And from this seed I have grown my notion. And Ive upheld the Nietzschean notion and arrived at value ontology through that, so I wont be the one to object to your statement here certainly as coming from a Taoist I suspect a simply truthfulness behind it. Nietzsche once called Buddhism a hygiene. I do experience zen as a mental hygiene. All things are rooted in themselves, and thoughts are things. I do not create thoughts. Well Ive created one thought, value ontology, out of the void.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwYnJZXWZS0[/youtube]

Morality is not created for the individual - its like is a revenge by the individual on the world that did not give him what he asked, and at best it is a decision to make what the world did not provide. Or at worst.

A healthy morality is is a standard to be attained to, rather than to be upheld. That is to say that is functions as an ideal, a form of heroism. And not as a scare of hell and a degenerating influence on the hearts of children.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Capable wrote:
Activity creates what will be used by others to support their own passivity. To exist in the furnace of the threshold actively creating new things is different from existing behind the curve to chew up whatever happens to fall to earth from the active mind. This is why good writers make writing look easy-- because it only looks easy to us, the passive ones before their work. To the writer, his own work never “looks easy”.

Institutions attempt to raise passivity to the level of activity. This is “transhumanism” par excellence. It is no surprise or coincidence at all how modern capitalism and business environment wants to become “trans-friendly”. “Trans” is the ethos of the Corporation. Discrete individuals are not allowed to exist within it; only images of individuals are tolerated, and only just barely.

Technically institution-ism is a “mental illness”, if you talk to peoole with severe schizo you see they almost always have delusions about the government, “the system”, corporations, they can’t handle bureaucracy at all because it affects them to the core; and many of them talk with technical jargon and business-speak quite naturally, and in inappropriate times, as a way of compensating for the deep damage that has been done to them by institutional logic.

This is categorically true to my experience of such people, as well as of my own brushes with that anti-suchness.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bty9ca9vYPE[/youtube]

Quote :
There is some small recognition of this kind of damage, called “revictimization through system encounter”. But this awareness exists mostly to help institution-ism become more friendly-seeming and subtle in its deceptions. I can’t see institutions ever truly acknowledging the damage they do to people.

Analytic philosophy is the attempt to institutionalize philosophy, thus academic philosophy naturally becomes highly “analytic”. This is its comfort zone. And there is no “morality” anywhere in any of this – morality is a strictly human, which is to say objective, affair.

Comfort-zone philosophy, armchair philosophy, institutionalism, bureaucracy, brain damage, lobotomy, Bertrand Russell, etc.
Yes, thank fully brewing up the antidote is such a god damned pleasure.

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Fri Nov 04, 2016 10:58 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:

I do find that Parodites and Capable are on to vital fleshed out notions of morality beyond what N took on himself – we must accept that N perished even of how much he took on, his plan was never for himself to carry the entirety of his philosophy; he spent himself fully so as to become a seed. And from this seed I have grown my notion. And Ive upheld the Nietzschean notion and arrived at value ontology through that, so I wont be the one to object to your statement here certainly as coming from a Taoist I suspect a simply truthfulness behind it. Nietzsche once called Buddhism a hygiene. I do experience zen as a mental hygiene. All things are rooted in themselves, and thoughts are things. I do not create thoughts. Well Ive created one thought, value ontology, out of the void.

Yes, Nietzsche spoke kindly of Buddhism. That actually surprised me but his logic was good.

To my knowledge he never mentioned Taoism but then there were only a couple translations while he was alive and they were only in English.

And I don’t recall Nietzsche ever claiming to be a overman. His desire was to teach us how to become.

Yes, values as opposed to morals. That’s because, from my perspective, values are personal whereas morals are others’ demands upon us.
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 3:19 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable

Quote :
Morality does a few things, one of which is to create a new plane of significance for things. An easy example is when someone wrongs you somehow (let’s say a boss at work) and you take steps to correct it by talking to HR; now your boss makes some changes and tries to be a little better and might even apologize to you, they might even be sincere in the apology. All fine and good, but none of this is morality.

That’s the thing about morality - it can be highly subjective and not necessarily based on what is “real”.
What I would have done in this scenario is to try to speak, to communicate with my boss, to see what the real problem is and try to smooth things over rather than first going over his head to HR. That would have been the “practical” side of morality for me - aiming for mutual understanding.
Things might not be so easily resolved on either side if someone else has to make the decision regarding their business relationship.

Quote :
Morality comes in when you elevate the interaction and its resolution to a meaning and lasting significance beyond the bounds of the interaction and its resolution. You do this by, for example, continuing to feel the affront even after it has been resolved or by continuing to focus on the resolution and the rightfulness of how it was handled in a way that was adequate or not adequate; basically you force the situation and its meaning to linger beyond the situation itself. This is one function of morality. Morality activates certain meanings to new regions where they persist longer than otherwise they would.

Yes, because a third party got involved and so their probably wasn’t so much of a mutual understanding and agreement afterwards.
But I think that it would also be determined by the personalities of the two involved - being able to “let go” and begin fresh.

Quote :

This moral extension as fidelity to the Eternal of meaning is therefore a certain kind of remembering: one remembers and continues to hold as significant the meaning and fact of something long after that ‘something’ has ended, or even concluded satisfactorily.

Some things have wonderful meaning in our lives. Holding onto these things are a part of appreciation and gratitude.
As for the negative side of remembering, we need to learn to be realistic nihilists, to let go of those memories which do not serve us but continue
to go against the grain of our emotions.

Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.

Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."

“If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.”

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Capable wrote:
Institutions strip individuality from people, like stripping flesh from bone. Institutions are probably necessary, but what the fuck are they really?

Institution-ism blurs the line between self-life and work-life. “Work life balance” they call it today, usually with a good dose of cynically irony and the half smile you give to a kid who asks about Santa.

Yes - it is halfheartedness. The first nominal institutions were always populated by eunuchs, it seems. I think a bureaucrat is somehow the equivalent of a eunuch.

However, we can build a non bureaucratic institution- a first perhaps - taking VO as the institutional center-self-valuing and valuing designated parts of our work purely in terms of it, as we’ve been doing quite consciously up here of course, why we made things like the Pentad and the Tower, which emptiness is testament to its functioning, just as the Pentads sporadic action clearly pushes philosophy forth seismically. VO is capable of being an institution (it even brings about institutions entirely dedicated to discrediting it, thereby building interest in it) that serves only to create space for a philosopher to do his own bidding. So that a man like Parodites can be supported by an institution, which means that he commands that institutions standards - as with VO It is simply the highest standard that brings all others under it. It is thus not an empty placeholder but a container of an asymptotically approached absolute; the value of value, the standard of standard - these work ‘magically’ - that is to say as fully potentiating every intent that is addressed at it qua its logic, that is to say, properly. VO commands “standard-as-such”…

shit.

Thats hard.

And that is why I can safely let a Parodites roam the skies above me as I chop the wood for a fire, just as I can let you be a thundercloudscape as I put together an engine, or I can follow Pezers field-directions, or dance with the ultimate discord that Sauwelios creates in peoples hearts, hahaha – that guy. He will always remain unfathomable. He truly lives with the goddesses. This is why he is so utterly undriven to be assertive; is existence itself is an assertion against all things that are around him. Generally it is accepted as a very mild, elevating, soothing, cultivating presence - no one who is in a room with Sauwelios can not like him - and he can not not suffer anyone - but online it is the opposite. He suffers no one, and no one is allowed truly close. Except I, since I have conquered with VO - but it was only when I had accidentally managed to cause him to stray onto his own path into it that I truly believed VO could rule. S understands N as Nietzsche understood himself, I think. I think also this is why he takes all these vast circular roads around the hot core - compare it to Eris’ orbit. The aim is to be both the Sun and the most distant satellite. In astrology, Pluto is assigned to subterranean power (‘control’, ‘minerals’, ‘sex in art’, etc), Eris isnt assigned to much yet beyond being given that name - not unfittingly, as as she entered Aries, long before she was discovered, the age of global wars began - she is not far from entering Taurus now, and I am certain that this will be the time that the Earth will come to fall into actual possession of discrete groups, whoever are the most capable two and a half (meta-)parties, Rulerships, Ideologies, Values by then. (I think this number is the lock - two on equal terms qua quantum of power in their own right, and a third that is needed by both to take from the other what they need. This ‘half’ is the resolution of the idea of the zero, and it is thus also clear which party is gong to represent this middle; this is perhaps the same as this ‘evil’ or ‘courage’ of the consolidated distance from the absolute; the absolute freedom of Arabs as traders, the engine to their religious might, their sheer manners, standards of transaction, the awareness that wealth is in transaction) But possession is a concept that only the Chinese and the English seem to understand effectively in global terms. Why Hong Kong was the ennobling center of cold war economy. In Europe, it is the Austrians and Northern Italians. Switzerland and Germany their antipodes. Switzerland understands possession entirely locally, is the most genius selfvaluing on the planet, the oldest nation of the west and also the only one unconquered. It is host to Nestle and Cern, secret banking, (naturally they just moved to a deeper layer of secrecy when they ‘gave up the secrets’- pruned the tree of wealth to grow much taller) and if there s any nation that knows it will keep forever conquering it is the Swiss. Ive been held by them for some hours on my way through, the way they carry their automatic weapons in their basically lederhosen-uniforms is just too comfortable. They also have the highest heroin addiction rate. You are either filthy rich powerborker or absolutely off the grid. Switzerland is slowly assimilating Europe to itself and using Germany as the plasma. And thats perfectly natural, because it is the center of the continent and they have bloody well earned it with their war record, and back this up with inventions like the Swiss army knife, perhaps the singular Object of this world, precisely in its phallic multifariousness () and sheer applicability. Man is a tool to create tools, said Bergson I believe, or a tool to create tools to create tools… not that I agree, but the Swiss know how to work this definition. I do not admire them. They have no culture and a filthy dialect in all their 4 languages. I admire the Austrians, who are the cultural center of the continent, and somehow merge into the Swiss in the Alps after Innsbruck… I once drove to Italy over Innsbruck and had a steak with berries and whipped cream on a mountainside terrace, and felt for the first time that I had found ‘the good place’ - not as in great exaltation, but as in utterly unto-itself. Happening to be quite high up and amidst brook-veined forest. Then I passed down into Italy!!!

I’ve actually been to Innsbruck one time, great place.

I think VO describes why institutions are impossible. All the institutions that presently exist flirt with this impossibility as their repressed reality principle, always trying to overcome this limit and always failing to do so. Institutions must be inhuman qua institution, so the trick is to keep a large gap between the hard logic of the institution-ism and the human beings who staff it. This is one applicatiok I came up with for artificial intelligence, that it can take over much of the functions of staffing institutions for doing the menial work. I think we’re already moving in that direction.

A single cluster of AI minds could operate even the most massive and complex institutions. But this would put a lot of peoole out of work. That’s the contradiction deep in technological capitalism: “work” loses its human-ness and so is eventually to be replaced by non-humans, but by then millions of people are already employed in these heartless systems.

A family or group of friends is how I think of a VO institution. Not really an institution but a natural rank-ordering as human relationships that also mediates power-concerns. In this way your preference for mafia structures in business and politics makes sense. But there are severe detriments however we look at it, whether there is heartless inhuman bureaucracies of institutions or mafia families in charge. Trump is a little bit of return to the mafia-oriented logic, maybe this is what the inhuman institutional behemoth needs right now.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
That’s an elegant and highly effective definition.
Beyond that it is practical and itself free of moral judgment, I wouldn’t say it is extremely Nietzschean, as if there is any place where N gets moral and superfluous in meaning it is in defining morality, which is why he then vomits it out, I think. Not his forte.

However I would like to address what, in this practical definition of what morality is, a Nietzschean morality is.

As is said, a morality stretches out the significant of an event beyond itself.
The significance of that event (to the selfvaluing) we may call its moral value.

So what is a moral value that stretches out beyond its own event, in a Nietzschean?

The answer is very convenient and clear: Pride.

As a Nietzschean, I have upheld this morality. When someone adds to my pride, that is ths philosophical pride I am talking about, that person acquires a value that pertains to a greater Value, namely the great signifier of morality, which is the capacity for pride.
Nietzschean pride is possibly the most comprehensive pride so far, as it extends to areas like factuality. A man like say ‘turd ferguson’ as boastful as he is, has no pride, in this sense, as he has no joy in addressing things factually.

When someone negatively addresses my (philosophic) Pride, that person becomes, in my psychological-emotional system, a non-entity. I take massive delight in deconstructing that entity in my mind, and seeing the weaknesses by which it hangs together. I can do this with most persons, but with someone who gives to show that he does not uphold Pride, as I do it, and is even ready to compromise it, this is what automatically begins to happen. His soul begins to disintegrate before my minds eye. If I choose to speak out, this then causes ripples of un-pride across the paradigm, ripples that touch the nerve of Nietzschean pride everywhere.

For as such, as defined as you have it, morality spreads through and lives in the world - when the code is challenged, it becomes active.

I don’t understand this, FC, though you explained it in your way.
What does pride have to do with morality?
Well, lol, actually in a sense and unfortunately often morality does seem to have a lot to do with pride, we judge what is moral by our by our own bruised egos and not by what is fair, balanced and harmonious. No sense of equanimity.
Morality has to do with one’s sense of right and wrong insofar as human behavior goes and upholding that.
I may be wrong ~~ I’m not really that much of a philosopher lol ~~ but your sense of what pride here seems to translate to me as ego or your own personal sense of identity. Who can take that away from us? Though at times it might be a good thing when our sense of identity is taken away and we can gain a “truer” sense of who we “really” are.
What part does pride play where morality goes being that it has in human history lead to many downfalls ~~ for example Hitler’s sense of pride in Germany and in himself. What destruction did that lead to!!!

But I may be misunderstanding what you’re saying here.

Quote :
when the code is challenged, it becomes active

Does it become challenged out of a sense of pride, because of Pride, or as a result of seeing the necessity of responding for the greater good?
The “greater good” is not usually what is about our own self interest.

Something just seems to be out of tune here. scratch

Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.

Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."

“If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.”

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:12 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Arcturus Descending wrote:
I don’t understand this, FC, though you explained it in your way.
What does pride have to do with morality?
Morality has to do with one’s sense of right and wrong insofar as human behavior goes and upholding that.
I may be wrong ~~ I’m not really that much of a philosopher lol ~~ but your sense of what pride here seems to translate to me as ego or your own personal sense of identity. Who can take that away from us? Though at times it might be a good thing when our sense of identity is taken away and we can gain a “truer” sense of who we “really” are.
What part does pride play where morality goes being that it has in human history lead to many downfalls ~~ for example Hitler’s sense of pride in Germany and in himself. What destruction did that lead to!!!

Are you saying pride is bad? Ive never heard that in my life, that someone thought that.

I know my mother was proud of me when she got me. Im pretty glad she didnt consider that a sin, or compared herself to Hitler, just because she was proud of her baby!!!

What are you thinking? Pride is bad?

There can be no love without pride. Love is always a very powerful form of pride. We are proud both of who we love, and of our love. The ability to love is probably the greatest pride, as well as reason for pride in the cosmos.
Did you not feel pride whenever you were in love, or loved a child or animal? Do you not love yourself when you are proud of a generous thing you did that helped some one to put his life back on track?

What of the Jews that refused to bow to Hitler out of pride? What of Churchill who was too pride to compromise with Hitler?
What of the black slaves that set themselves free, because they were too proud to be chained?

Pride is the essential ingredient to human dignity.
Hitler rose because the English and French were one week from splitting up Germany. They tried to work with reality without considering the phenomenon pride. So they created nazism.

Quote :
Quote :
when the code is challenged, it becomes active

Does it become challenged out of a sense of pride, because of Pride, or as a result of seeing the necessity of responding for the greater good?

How would you define “greater good” if you have nothing to be proud of?

Quote :
The “greater good” is not usually what is about our own self interest.

What? How is the greater good not per definition in ones self interest?

Youve basically defined “good” as “bad” for yourself here, Arc.
Timer to look at yourself. Something is awry.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:35 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:

I’ve actually been to Innsbruck one time, great place.

Nice.
Just now a German song sets in in this breakfast place.

Quote :
I think VO describes why institutions are impossible. All the institutions that presently exist flirt with this impossibility as their repressed reality principle, always trying to overcome this limit and always failing to do so. Institutions must be inhuman qua institution, so the trick is to keep a large gap between the hard logic of the institution-ism and the human beings who staff it. This is one applicatiok I came up with for artificial intelligence, that it can take over much of the functions of staffing institutions for doing the menial work. I think we’re already moving in that direction.

In as far as institutions have existed, I do believe this is all true, and this interestingly frames AI as a possibility of making imperfection work ‘as such’ - I dont know let me think more on this

Id like to know more about AI.

Quote :
A single cluster of AI minds could operate even the most massive and complex institutions. But this would put a lot of peoole out of work. That’s the contradiction deep in technological capitalism: “work” loses its human-ness and so is eventually to be replaced by non-humans, but by then millions of people are already employed in these heartless systems.

Yes but I do think it is better to sit at home than to do the type of bureaucratic work that comes out of the pure excess of institution. That list of symptoms you posted somewhere was pretty fucking accurate.

Quote :
A family or group of friends is how I think of a VO institution. Not really an institution but a natural rank-ordering as human relationships that also mediates power-concerns. In this way your preference for mafia structures in business and politics makes sense. But there are severe detriments however we look at it, whether there is heartless inhuman bureaucracies of institutions or mafia families in charge. Trump is a little bit of return to the mafia-oriented logic, maybe this is what the inhuman institutional behemoth needs right now.

Thanks for reminding me, after I wrote that post yesterday I wanted to add that VO builds an institution that ‘takes on the wings of its most respected members’. Thus, it is the ultimate ‘democracy’, because it is not representative; rather it makes democracy and meritocracy equal.

Whether or not such an institution merits or becomes a base mafia like coercion system, depends I would say entirely on the ‘ingredients’ - the people involved – thus for the US things are looking good in such terms, as well as for the world at large. A philosophic institution had to wait with coming into being, quite logically, until global communication was fleshed out.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Pride and ego are twins. They both are subject to the same faults and strengths.

Or better perhaps, pride is rooted in ego. Ego is noun and pride is verb.

But still, our pride and ego must reflect reality else we are living in illusion and delusion. That would be contra Nietzsche.

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:26 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ego is the lack of pride. It is the lack of power to nurture oneself by benefiting ones environment.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:31 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ego is fear of inner confrontation. Ego is the shell, that rejects experience, and research, and empirical reality, and all powerful things, because it prefers to remain in shallow understanding.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
We will need to agree to disagree on these two concepts.

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 1:03 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
If Im fully philosophical, I must say that I dont even believe that “ego” exists.

I use the word to indicate some stuff but it’s a silly notion to me the way people use it, as if there is a separate I from the I… it’s all just words.

We just are. We self-value. Some people like to be generous and creative, others are pieces of shit, that does not mean that the second group has ‘bigger ego’. It just means they have no values and thus are themselves of no value.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ego does exist, I believe, in a Freudian sense as opposite to superego and id, namely as translating these to each other in s compromise. But I agree that ego is the opposite of pride.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, the Freudian system is pretty elegant and goes a long way in justifying the concept.

I was going to say that if it is the opposite of pride it surely exists… but then - ha. I will shut up now though, as the great Omega rises only when it does.

It’s a word foremost, and it refers to a valuable existent in terms of Freudian analysis.

The word literally means “I”, in that sense it also exists. We can say it, and it will make sense to a Roman.

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:29 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
If Im fully philosophical, I must say that I dont even believe that “ego” exists.

I use the word to indicate some stuff but it’s a silly notion to me the way people use it, as if there is a separate I from the I… it’s all just words.

We just are. We self-value. Some people like to be generous and creative, others are pieces of shit, that does not mean that the second group has ‘bigger ego’. It just means they have no values and thus are themselves of no value.

Now this I can agree with. “Ego” is not a thing - it is a mental concept. It’s really just another way of trying to define an individual.
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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
FC

Quote :
Are you saying pride is bad? Ive never heard that in my life, that someone thought that.

No, I’m not saying that at all. What I am speaking about here is a false kind of pride or vanity which can border on narcissism. I’m speaking about ego, not the kind which adds to our self esteem but to our “false” self, the one which is highly egoistical.
There is a good pride which we we’re capable of feelings/experiencing due to our achievements, et cetera, but when that goes overboard than it transcends the good kind of pride.

Quote :
I know my mother was proud of me when she got me. Im pretty glad she didnt consider that a sin, or compared herself to Hitler, just because she was proud of her baby!!!

lol That’s a bit absurd, don’t you think? I’m sure that based on your achievements, your mother does have a lot to be proud of.
I mentioned Hitler because of the Pride which he bore, the destructive chauvinism - look where it go the world. But we managed to stifle that nazi pig.

Quote :
What are you thinking? Pride is bad?

No, as I said above. Saying pride is bad is like saying “Life is suffering” to me.
It has to be looked on all sides.

Quote :
There can be no love without pride. Love is always a very powerful form of pride. We are proud both of who we love, and of our love. .

So, are you saying that your mother would stop loving you, or anyone who loved you, would stop loving you if they stopped being proud of you?

Quote :
The ability to love is probably the greatest pride, as well as reason for pride in the cosmos

scratch I don’t understand this, FC, but maybe it’s just me. Why do you bring pride into so much?
I would rather use the word gratitude and appreciation. To be able to love someone fills me with both G&A as does to be able to be loved in return.
I’m not the philosopher which you are so maybe in philosophical circles, your above quote could be understood but I don’t get it. Doesn’t mean you’re wrong that I don’t get it.

Quote :
Did you not feel pride whenever you were in love, or loved a child or animal? Do you not love yourself when you are proud of a generous thing you did that helped some one to put his life back on track?

Do me a favor and express for me how this “pride” you’re speaking about is experienced by you?
Again, I felt/feel more gratitude and appreciation.
Do I feel pride in my son and daughter when they’ve achieved things? Yes of course I do - again it’s a deep sense of gratitude and appreciation and respect for them as human beings. But the love I have for them also retains the pride I feel in them even when I realize that they have their limitations.

Quote :
What of the Jews that refused to bow to Hitler out of pride? What of Churchill who was too pride to compromise with Hitler?

I may be wrong but could that be considered to be “pride” or a deeper sense of self, of who they are/were as Jews and their heritage. Okay, perhaps there is pride within that but I am/was still speaking of the pride which is vanity - for instance, the pride which allows men to think of their selves as God because they are philosophers. Isn’t that vanity?

Quote :
What of the black slaves that set themselves free, because they were too proud to be chained?
Same as I said above. A deeper sense of self, who they are/were, despite how they were treated and despite how they were thought of.

Quote :
Pride is the essential ingredient to human dignity.

If you’re using Pride to denote a “real” self respect and a “true” sense of self, then yes, I agree with this.
But everything needs to balance itself out. Like Yeats in my signature said “Balance all, call all to mind” though he was speaking of something a bit different at the time.

Quote :
How would you define “greater good” if you have nothing to be proud of?

Does the greater good depend on “pride” though or as something held to be valued and precious? Can we use the word “pride” in that sense"
I think that the word PRIDE has to be looked at in terms of reality, not just subjective thinking - and also in terms of degrees.

Quote :
The “greater good” is not usually what is about our own self interest.

What? How is the greater good not per definition in ones self interest?

Okay, I’ll grant you that the greater good could also ALLOW for OUR own self interest but that is not always the higher motivation.
A man enlists and goes off to war knowing that he might not come back. He knows that freedom and liberty, fighting evil is the greater/greatest good.
Is his own self-interest paramount in making this decision, FC? No,it isn’t.
There are times when we realize that sacrifices have to be made. It isn’t always in our own self interest BUT it is for the greater good of all.

Quote :
Youve basically defined “good” as “bad” for yourself here, Arc.

No, I haven’t FC. There have to be distinctions made. These kind of discussions are not simply black and white. Didn’t Nietzsche say that things need to be turned inside out and upside down and perhaps in more different ways than that. I just don’t like simple answers that haven’t been looked at.
Everything you say can be seen in another way.

Quote :
Timer to look at yourself. Something is awry.
You put that in because I said that something seems to be out of tune. geek
Believe it or not, I do a lot of introspection. I’m quite aware that at times thins are awry. Are you?
[/quote]

Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.

Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."

“If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.”

Thomas Nagel

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PostSubject: Re: What is morality in the practical (Nietzschean) sense? Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Ego does exist, I believe, in a Freudian sense as opposite to superego and id, namely as translating these to each other in s compromise. But I agree that ego is the opposite of pride.

Ego isn’t the opposite of pride. A false ego is the opposite of a true sense of self-respect, self-identity.
Then of course, there is the conscious self, the ego.

Obviously we have an ego. If we didn’t, it would be difficult for us to survive and to have a sense of self-preservation. Ego is only part of our greater self, you might call it Self. It’s like a facet on a diamond, one facet.
Words need to be clarified and to be dived into.

Quote :
But I agree that ego is the opposite of pride

I believe that what you may have been trying to say is that an egoistical attitude may not be based on a true sense of pride. Usually, the former is based on lower self-esteem that is repressed and not wanted to be looked at.

Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.

Jakob · November 25, 2018, 11:35pm

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PostSubject: The great life Fri Oct 23, 2015 9:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Because none are born a god, the great life is always a large part imprisonment; greatness must stand against something other than great to exist, also within a great human. The battle is a life only if the monster is strong enough, says the philosopher, and goes deeper into the cave as the scientist and the mystic halt. The Greek myth describe what he finds there. And out of this comes a society, so splendorous as the flower of time itself, so that its seedlings fill the web of time and time becomes green, lush, full of world an wonder and here, now, are we reflecting on this in the pearl of a fish eyed orblet of dew, only that, like dew in a field. Or are we the boot that mashes the blades of grass and steps on the ladybug? Or perhaps the lightning holding its breath above in the dense purple clouds? Or the tendon hewn out of marble, from which another orblet rolls into infinity, why have they made our consciousnesses so deep as to be able to think of such trivial things…

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: The great life Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:32 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I am not a god??? Well, I feel and believe I have certain god-like qualities. smile

Parts of all life can be viewed as imprisonment. However, life is how its viewed and few are incarcerated. Confined time is a negative and I choose to see more of freedoms (positives).

The consciousness is like everything… it needs hard work to be able to maximize but it also needs trivial things to rest and amuse itself!

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PostSubject: Re: The great life Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Freedoms could be considered negatives, as they arent necessities, not positive givens.
Many today are changed by their freedom.

A code, a binding word, can be liberating for the action radius.

The burden of choice.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: The great life Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:30 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:

The burden of choice.

But also an opportunity to excel.
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PostSubject: Re: The great life Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:41 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Is choice really a burden? I believe choice is about accepting responsibility. I agree that sometimes it is not pleasant - this is where forgiveness of oneself comes in. We simply make the best decisions that we can at the time and move forward. Hindsight, further learning and growing often show us, our errors. Live and learn (and forgive yourself).

Isn’t the term “burden of choice” like saying life is a burden? I totally revel in life!! No burdens here…

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PostSubject: Highest political ethics Tue Dec 13, 2016 7:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The highest political ethics would be one based on the ground-value of self-determination. Self-determination should be the bedrock principle applied to the individual person, and to the nation itself. So in other words, any derivative values or principles should not be allowed to violate the basic principle-value of the self-determination of individuals and nations.

What would be the political character that develops upon such a political ethics?

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Highest political ethics Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
The highest political ethics would be one based on the ground-value of self-determination. Self-determination should be the bedrock principle applied to the individual person, and to the nation itself. So in other words, any derivative values or principles should not be allowed to violate the basic principle-value of the self-determination of individuals and nations.

What would be the political character that develops upon such a political ethics?

I may not be understanding what you mean here by political ethics and I am not politically inclined but this calls to mind the Nazi regime and the destruction of millions of Jewish lives. The Nazis as a collective and as individuals were self-determined. Where were their ethics when it came to all of those lives even though one can say that they were highly self determined?

On the other hand, the allies joining forces and coming in and defeating the Nazi’s were also highly self-determined in destroying that great evil - and yes, it was a great evil.

scholar.harvard.edu/files/dft/fi … _10-11.pdf

Ethics requires political leaders to avoid harming the innocent,
but it may also obligate them to sacrifice innocent lives for the good of the nation. A
President may be morally obligated to order military action even while foreseeing
that civilians will be killed. (The question of immoral means arises even if the war
itself is just: See JUST WAR THEORY).

Interesting reading.

…

Hmmm… I suppose you meant the phrase in a much more broader scope…

Wouldn’t a humane sense of consciousness and responsibility toward doing the least amount of harm toward the greater good " pawn self-determination"?

Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.

Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."

“If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.”

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Highest political ethics Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
The highest political ethics would be one based on the ground-value of self-determination. Self-determination should be the bedrock principle applied to the individual person, and to the nation itself. So in other words, any derivative values or principles should not be allowed to violate the basic principle-value of the self-determination of individuals and nations.

What would be the political character that develops upon such a political ethics?

Ive been pondering this post for a day.

This morning I decide the best term here is the old one: Constitutionalism

Trumps idea of for every new regulation, eliminating two old ones, appears very wise, with respect to Constitutionalism.

The Constitution appears as having been designed to facilitate selfdetermination on individual, as well as state level.

The 9th Amendment appears the logical center piece of the legislation as a guarantee that the document is used for the purpose it was created for - to minimize unself-determination.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Highest political ethics Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:48 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes I agree, and as the ontic entities condense more around themselves in terms of self-determination we can expect to see an increase in… pride. Self-pride and national pride, in the joy that comes with being and having oneself, which is the basic logic of self-valuing.

The US Constitution was the first of its kind in human history. We should never forget this. Napoleon fucked up France’s chance to be the US of Europe, basically, when their own constitution failed because of him. Perhaps the US and even the world has the restraint of a single man to thank: George Washington, who the Americans people wanted to make a king, and that would have been the end of it, but he said no.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Highest political ethics Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
Yes I agree, and as the ontic entities condense more around themselves in terms of self-determination we can expect to see an increase in… pride. Self-pride and national pride, in the joy that comes with being and having oneself, which is the basic logic of self-valuing.

The US Constitution was the first of its kind in human history. We should never forget this. Napoleon fucked up France’s chance to be the US of Europe, basically, when their own constitution failed because of him. Perhaps the US and even the world has the restraint of a single man to thank: George Washington, who the Americans people wanted to make a king, and that would have been the end of it, but he said no.

Wait, thats fascinating. Did that first constitution before Napoleon did with it what he did, suffice in value-logical terms?

Can you locate the text?

Because right now I think that France needs to become the center of Europe, not morally, but by real necessity, as in there is no other possibility.
Germany cant rule. They keep on dreadfully failing. France is the center of Europe in the sense that it is where everyone goes to feel good, its the most popular country and the oldest, and it used to harbor more than half of the European population. It is stunning, noble to the very tendons of the heart, and it has the will to govern from the sort of lofty withdrawn pride that simply knows the poor will come to it in honest wonder.

France need to start building immense bridges close to the German border. They need to show clearly who is able to build and who is not. Germans have never built anything notable at all. Their country has literally no memorable buildings. Berlin is an architectonic wasteland, but so are all their cities. Frankfurt
has foreign architect from the looks of it but it is nothingness anyway.

One street in any given town of France has more culture to it than Germany as a whole.
The beauty of Germany is its savageness.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Highest political ethics Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:30 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It’s something I remember reading, that the French tried to follow America’s example by drafting their own Constitution, which they did, but ultimately Napoleon basically did what he wanted after he declared himself Emperor. Ours was in 1787, theirs was in 1791 I guess, four years later. I’m no expert on this history, but I am sure there is plenty online to be found… I found this on history-world.org,

“The Downfall of RobespierreFinally the enemies of the Revolution at home and abroad seemed to be suppressed. Only Great Britain and Austria continued the war. The people were tired of the Terror. When Robespierre showed no signs of stopping the bloodshed, the rest of the Convention took matters into their own hands. Danton had predicted: “Robespierre will follow me; I drag down Robespierre.” Robespierre was arrested and sent to the guillotine on July 28, 1794. People then and afterward blamed him for all the horrors of the Reign of Terror, but much of the blame as well as the credit for it belonged to others.More moderate men now governed France. The Convention wrote another constitution–the third since 1789 and the second to be put into operation-- then prepared to dissolve. A mob protested against two thirds of the new assemblies being drawn from the hated Convention. A young artillery officer, Napoleon Bonaparte, protected the new government. He was then practically unknown.The new government, the Directory, proved unable to meet the problems within disorganized France. The glory of foreign victories won under the Directory was due to Bonaparte. On Nov. 9, 1799, he helped overthrow the Directory and replaced it with a Consulate of three members. He was the first consul and actual ruler of France. In 1804 he discarded pretense and called himself “Napoleon I, Emperor of the French.” Liberty was gone. Napoleon himself declared: “Liberty is a necessity felt only by a not very numerous class. It can therefore be restricted with impunity. Equality on the other hand pleases the multitude.” Few events have so powerfully influenced the political and economic development of the modern world as the French Revolution.” –http://history-world.org/french_revolution.htm

Yeah it would be really interesting to read the original French Constitution.

France does seem cool to me. Jim Morrison wanted to be buried there, after all. Père Lachaise would be a good place to visit someday.

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PostSubject: Protean thinking Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Certain concepts are not really concepts at all, but are more like guarantors and signs marking off thus far impenetrable spaces in which, eventually, conception will be able to enter. The good, evil, and freedom are three such “concepts”. They tell us only that far more work is still yet to be attempted.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Protean thinking Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Oh, I think I would have to keep those three as concepts. Subjective concepts at that.

There will be differences between individuals as to what id good, evil and freedom.
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PostSubject: Re: Protean thinking Mon Nov 07, 2016 12:36 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The subjective differences between individuals as to what these three ‘concepts’ mean, is a quite different thing than is the claim I am making here in the OP… namely that these are not really concepts at all, but the guardians of the spaces in which future conception will/must take place.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Protean thinking Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:25 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
The subjective differences between individuals as to what these three ‘concepts’ mean, is a quite different thing than is the claim I am making here in the OP… namely that these are not really concepts at all, but the guardians of the spaces in which future conception will/must take place.

Yeah, I really did read your post. I can’t say that I understood what you were pointing at though.

So let’s add one more to the three you mentioned: Imprisonment.

Now we have “good/evil” and “freedom/imprisonment”.

These are dualistic concepts of the human brain. The two end points of a straight line.

Sure, we could call them guide posts. Choosing good over evil and freedom over imprisonment.
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PostSubject: Re: Protean thinking Sat Nov 12, 2016 6:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
The subjective differences between individuals as to what these three ‘concepts’ mean, is a quite different thing than is the claim I am making here in the OP… namely that these are not really concepts at all, but the guardians of the spaces in which future conception will/must take place.

Do you mean to say that as we change our way of thinking and evolve, they are ideas which will branch out and transform into entirely different concepts?

Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.

Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."

“If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.”

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PostSubject: This Is Ethics Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:10 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Parodites quoted this in an aphorism -
So this is Yeats…

“Be no more a king, but learn the dreaming wisdom that is yours; a king is but a foolish labourer who wastes his blood to be another’s dream.”

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: This Is Ethics Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:13 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Nobility is truly unfairly concentrated in Island cultures.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: This Is Ethics Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:51 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: This Is Ethics Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:53 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Let’s replace the Republican party with the Trumpican party.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: This Is Ethics Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
That would give new meaning to ethics in the practical sense.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: This Is Ethics Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fitting that this is presidency number 45.
the center of the Matrix.

The central conclusion.

My brothers, as much as Trump has the guarantee of my support, I will support the larger cause by working for humanity in the recreation of the democratic party.

‘The best taste is to indulge in ones complete opposite’

This opposite has shifted from what now has become the Self, to the plasmic still-in-formation conundrum of the Left – there is potential now for pure creation - something vast and beautiful can be sown now - a great philosophical enterprise. Trump himself is bipartisan, because he is not petty, but Great. Americas greatness involves both views, Liberal and Conservative - Blue and Red. We wont throw out the baby with the bathwater, we wil actually talk to the democratic party youths, and inspire them to philosophize VO.

There is no try. Do, or do not.
It is already to late for the latter.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: This Is Ethics Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:17 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Might you consider perhaps that the baby should be thrown out with the bathwater?

Birth have been given to an orphan.

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PostSubject: Praxis Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A very useful way of approaching a philosopher is to sample a passage or two of his in isolation from the rest of what he wrote, in order to ascertain a “genetic” level glance at deeper machinery in his thought/system by formulating a metaphor whereby the single passage or two forms an object sufficient to represent the entirety of the spaces occupied and filled out by that larger thought/system. The isolated passage acts as an image representing by a kind of self-metaphor of double and triple meanings the larger body of work and spirit of that philosopher.

Once this image is obtained we can then gradually work out from it in all directions, pushing further into the philosopher’s ideas while using the original image-metaphor as a ground allowing more hierarchical classifications and meta-relations. A complex 3D object forms, as the understanding of this philosopher’s contributions, and can even be set in relation to other similarly complex 3D objects of the works/contributions of other philosophers, and in the very same way and method as the object itself was formed by approaching the single philosopher through his representative passages.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Praxis Thu Nov 17, 2016 10:55 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don’t doubt that this could be a useful procedure. However, I have seen it used for destructive purposes where a couple statements were taken out of context with the intention of discrediting the author. I have seen it happen many times on Nietzsche and a few times o Chuang Tzu (Taoist philosopher).

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PostSubject: Faith Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:01 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Just like a truth told so as to be understood will always be believed, a reality shown to be necessary will always be willed.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Faith Thu Nov 03, 2016 4:10 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Things happen because people will other things to happen.

This is the case, because no one who acts fully accounts for all the actions of the others.

So no action is rational in the long run. It can only be justified in the moment.

Justified actions followed with regularity imprint the will on millennia as on wax.

All unphilosophical actions are partial, and there are no impartial actions, thus philosophy doesn’t act.

Philosopher understands the pieces into motion.

Now the philosopher sees this but the other doesn’t. What is seen from the outside is that the philosopher understands, and as such wills the things as they are.

But the philosopher is animated from within by the very same things as the things that animate him from the outside;
paradox is just one of many axes that need to remain invisible for the wheels of our mind to find grip on them, and the consistency of patterns that we can discern is the same consistency as our discernment, and whether or not they seem separate is due to the lower or higher quality and degree of our valuing integrity.

Philosophic integrity is human gravity and has moons that act.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Faith Thu Nov 03, 2016 11:37 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don’t use the word “faith”. But I do use the word “will”.

Faith is passive; will is active.

I’m not sure what you are pointing to here.

I don’t agree that “… no action is rational …” But it can be argued that the action taken may not have been the best of all choices if all facts and possible ramifications were known.

That’s all I can say for now.
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PostSubject: Re: Faith Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Just like a truth told so as to be understood will always be believed, a reality shown to be necessary will always be willed.

As to the latter, I wonder why? Plain common sense and logic? Survival?

Man and things.-- Why does man not see things? He is himself standing in the way: he conceals things.

from Nietzsche’s Daybreak

How true this is.

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PostSubject: Who should I thank? Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
If you start to thank the entities and traditions that have helped shape you, there is obviously no limit.
But a hierarchy might form under a higest entity to thank.

If you could thank one thing to account for all the experience and consequence of your existence, could there be such a word?

god is invented as such praise, thanks, but it is surely stale to autromatically attribute thanks to that “Him”.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: Who should I thank? Fri Dec 09, 2016 12:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Start with your mom and go from there.
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I thank? Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:49 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Start with your mom and go from there.

That’s nice. I couldn’t really start there though. Rolling Eyes

Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.

Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."

“If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.”

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: Who should I thank? Sat Dec 10, 2016 4:59 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
If you start to thank the entities and traditions that have helped shape you, there is obviously no limit.
But a hierarchy might form under a higest entity to thank.

If you could thank one thing to account for all the experience and consequence of your existence, could there be such a word?

god is invented as such praise, thanks, but it is surely stale to autromatically attribute thanks to that “Him”.

For me, believe it or not, it would probably be the orphanage where I grew up…there but for ITS grace, go I.
It formed and structured me in ways, the good and the bad but still I am in part who I am because of this entity.

But then again…perhaps it might be the positive DNA which flows through me, ALSO enabling me to be who I am, with all of my peculiarities, my sensibilities, my strengths, my sense of wonderment and curiosity, my sticktoitiveness…
How much of that am I alone responsible for and how much comes from the wonderful people who have gone before who in a sense flow within me who I have never met and shall never know or know of?

I can never forget the Universe, like the stars, who were at times such great company and consolation and inspiration for me and nature with everything within it that I can behold or experience within myself.

I have so much to be grateful for…it sometimes amazes me what I think and feel that makes me grateful.

Jakob · November 25, 2018, 11:45pm

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PostSubject: If so - Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I lazily looked up some Hegel quotes to put in a meme of an American Eagle, and hit on this one:

Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.

What would the context be? In any case it is wrong - but only since Schopenhauer and them did the solution to this error thinkable again -
Plato and Hegel are quite similar -
Socrates and his type of dialectic work in the same way - to assume above a metaphysics and reduce all social dynamic of value to that Universal hypothesis - leaving in the end nothing but the dead of Socrates and Athens.

If we can melt Hegel in the oven that he is, then we can also forge a new instrument out of some of the parts - if the oven can generate heat, perhaps if we insert our principles that defy Hegels fatalism-universalism into the Hegelian-Socratic friction (that is what it is, I figure now, pure friction - haste of entropy - beyond the principle of honing, at least to themselves - ) -

well but this is already being done.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If so - Sat Nov 05, 2016 2:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
I lazily looked up some Hegel quotes to put in a meme of an American Eagle, and hit on this one:

Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.

What would the context be? In any case it is wrong - but only since Schopenhauer and them did the solution to this error thinkable again -
Plato and Hegel are quite similar -
Socrates and his type of dialectic work in the same way - to assume above a metaphysics and reduce all social dynamic of value to that Universal hypothesis - leaving in the end nothing but the dead of Socrates and Athens.

If we can melt Hegel in the oven that he is, then we can also forge a new instrument out of some of the parts - if the oven can generate heat, perhaps if we insert our principles that defy Hegels fatalism-universalism into the Hegelian-Socratic friction (that is what it is, I figure now, pure friction - haste of entropy - beyond the principle of honing, at least to themselves - ) -

well but this is already being done.

So are you saying that you disagree with the quote, FC?

Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.

Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."

“If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.”

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PostSubject: Re: If so - Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Arcturus Descending wrote:

So are you saying that you disagree with the quote, FC?

I couldn’t tell either. But I know that Sun Tzu (The Art of War) would totally disagree. Everything we do must be based in principles.
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PostSubject: Re: If so - Sat Nov 05, 2016 7:28 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It’s really important to read Hegel one-liners in their context. That’s why I try to quote him in only paragraphs, at minimum.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: If so - Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

Quote :
Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.

It may give help but then again it may not.

Heraclitus said, "You cannot step into the same river twice, for other waters are continually flowing on.

We pre-suppose that because something generally works for us, for instance, because we have our own code of ethics or way of doing things, it will always work for us.

Amid the pressure of great events though, sometimes our way of thinking and doing, has to go right out the window. Others whose waters are also continually flowing, will also be seeing thing differently and reacting differently due to great pressures - for instance, fighting to stay alive or to keep others alive.

When something is of the greatest importance, there have to be new ways of thinking or acting. Change calls for and invents new changes.

We have to think on our feet and that thinking doesn’t necessarily follow a general principle.
Sometimes we will have to get just as down and dirty. Morality doesn’t necessarily enter in when the rules have changed and sometime greater is in the wings.

Am I wrong?

Each of our lives is a part of the lengthy process of the universe gradually waking up and becoming aware of itself.

Philosophy is the childhood of the intellect, and a culture that tries to skip it will never grow up."

“If I thought that everything I did was determined by my circumstancse and my psychological condition, I would feel trapped.”

Thomas Nagel
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PostSubject: Re: If so - Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:13 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable is right of course, my isolating that line is a bit fallacious. I don’t even have the context, mea culpa.

Let’s assume for a moment some random dude made just this statement, that a general principle isn’t useful when it comes down to solving a real life crisis.

Gravity is a general principle. So is action = -reaction. And these principles serve very well in crisis situations, in fact to not heed these principles is guaranteed to cause crisis situations.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: If so - Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Arcturus Descending wrote:

Quote :
Amid the pressure of great events, a general principle gives no help.

It may give help but then again it may not.

Heraclitus said, "You cannot step into the same river twice, for other waters are continually flowing on.

We pre-suppose that because something generally works for us, for instance, because we have our own code of ethics or way of doing things, it will always work for us.

Amid the pressure of great events though, sometimes our way of thinking and doing, has to go right out the window. Others whose waters are also continually flowing, will also be seeing thing differently and reacting differently due to great pressures - for instance, fighting to stay alive or to keep others alive.

When something is of the greatest importance, there have to be new ways of thinking or acting. Change calls for and invents new changes.

We have to think on our feet and that thinking doesn’t necessarily follow a general principle.
Sometimes we will have to get just as down and dirty. Morality doesn’t necessarily enter in when the rules have changed and sometime greater is in the wings.

Am I wrong?

Well put! I don’t think you are wrong. Your logic made sense!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iodeA7XYsb4[/youtube]

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PostSubject: Honor to Trump’s victory Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Something like 17 hours to go.

This thread is dedicated to joyous celebration of Trump’s win. Images, videos and text welcome.

I’ll start it off.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdqNNTTKkJM[/youtube]

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
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Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

postimg.org/image/57wmeyhl9/

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It’s official.

Neighbors next to me here just put up a huge Trump flag in their yard, right below their American flag. The atmosphere here is excited and relieved. You can feel it on the air.

Tectonic shifts in the existentia. Now a new era begins.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This was some intense address. Every hall of power must have been trembling.
I can feel the air crackling behind your words, that’s good to hear.
Here it is silent as ever.

My connection got interrupted right as he was saying “Every hall of power”. I went outside to walk the free Earth.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:16 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The man had an impressive array of VO esque logics to offer.

Very nice what he said about not imposing but shining. Like gold, perfect selfvaluing, incorruptible.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

I feel exhausted…

a lot of things happened today…

this made me laugh
9gag.com/gag/ao2b84m

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
“A nation exists to serve its citizens.” --President Trump

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
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Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:23 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Trump said it all. And he said it powerfully. It was a declaration of war, though - the rain, it was not a hollow omen, as now the world begins, and the world is fire. We will need the rain, for there will be much ashes, and wet ash is the most fertile substance - CHO -

A different work will be set in motion. Our talking here will no longer suffice - this presidency needs philosophers.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:11 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Tue Jan 31, 2017 10:12 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

Jakob · November 25, 2018, 11:46pm

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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:20 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
New slogan for the anti-Trump protestors:

“Jump For Trump”

off a bridge, a building, whatever.
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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
New slogan for the anti-Trump protestors:

“Jump For Trump”

off a bridge, a building, whatever.

LOL

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
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Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
“MAGA.” --Nietzsche

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Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
LGBT: Let’s Get Behind Trump

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
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Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Honor to Trump’s victory Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
LGBT: Let’s Get Behind Trump

How do you spell relief?

NoAids

2img.net/h/s30.postimg.cc/l71up … G_1099.jpg

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PostSubject: Venezuela Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I’ve been thinking of Pezer lately, and recently I had an online chat with a socialist who claimed Venezuela isn’t “real socialism”… I explained philosophically why Venezuela specifically has failed, and then i explained philosophically why socialism doesn’t work. Of course he had no response but to insult me and play the Chomsky game of demanding I know all the hyper-particular details of every government and economic moment in order to explain why it didn’t work… when I explained why that analytic-empirical (anti-philosophical) Chomsky-ite approach is bullshit, and I demanded he address what I wrote about the nature of socialism as well as Venezuela’s specific problems caused by Chavez and their oil situation (ironically only the “great evil” USA paid full price for their oil) and that how a country with more oil than Saudi Arabia can fuck up so badly, he promptly left.

Anyway, I’m convinced he was a paid subversive shill working the internet for disinformation purposes. I’ve encountered these types before.

I hope Pezer is doing well.

On a related note, this video is what inspired me to share my story of the chat I had. This is really a fantastic video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UJlRRahNzw[/youtube]

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
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Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Venezuela Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:32 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Very good analysis. Let’s get BTL News going and link to Molyneux.

“It is sad there are so many people who have not developed the level of maturity that is necesssey in order to make political choices”.

Absolutely.

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PostSubject: A possible formula Thu Feb 16, 2017 5:23 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Selfvaluing is power to will, will is will to power, power is will to love, love is will to life, life is will to give, bring forth, create-through. And that’s the end of that.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Fri Feb 17, 2017 12:17 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Does love really need to be in there? Love is one of those words with so many connotations.
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:28 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
will to exalt, then -
I mean among other connotations to refer to the idea of creating beyond oneself, and to take pleasure in serving a real cause that includes but exceeds oneself, or at least that part of oneself that one wishes to cultivate - what I call the selfvaluing logic.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:47 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
will to exalt, then -
I mean among other connotations to refer to the idea of creating beyond oneself, and to take pleasure in serving a real cause that includes but exceeds oneself, or at least that part of oneself that one wishes to cultivate - what I call the selfvaluing logic.

Yes, this I can easily work with. I think that a full life includes holding ideals greater than one’s self. If you will, having an ideal you are willing to die for in order to protect or accomplish.
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Very well. I see that ethics is the sort of context where you can best follow what I am saying.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Feb 18, 2017 3:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Very well. I see that ethics is the sort of context where you can best follow what I am saying.

Well done Fixed Cross.
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don’t agree with holding onto a concept that we will “die” for. - That seems a young persons creed. However, having made it to 56, very little in life is worth dying for…if anything.
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Drops_Of_Jupiter wrote:
I don’t agree with holding onto a concept that we will “die” for. - That seems a young persons creed. However, having made it to 56, very little in life is worth dying for…if anything.

Its a great privilege to have such a value as to exalt ones consciousness above ones physical self. Usually we dont have it. Modernity is in a sense mans impotence to value beyond his mortal coil… he does not have the will to sow himself like a seed.

But mans greatness is a seed.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I can’t imagine a worse hell and fate than to have nothing worth dying for.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hmmm… When I was younger, I would have “died” for many of my beliefs. But something happened… I got a business education and grew up.

I used to see only my side of the coin, the “right” side. Now I see multiple sides and angles. Let’s take the controversial topic of abortion. When younger, I knew in my heart that it is wrong. Then I met my best friend. She had an abortion when she was young. She explained her story and I felt her pain and understood. Still, it was “wrong” in my book. Then, I met another friend whose beliefs are “Its a woman’s body and her right to choose.” I don’t know that I agree with that. Seems really out there to me. ---- But I ask, “Who am I to judge??” I’m just a woman. I’ve never been pregnant. I’ve never been faced with the choice to make. How can I judge or stand for or against this???

Most all people in this world are doing the best that they can. Everyone makes choices based upon their experiences. Until I live another’s life, I don’t think I can judge.

I ask, " How can I die for issues that are so complex - and have an individual side to them as well?" An Aerosmith song comes to mind…(changing the lyrics a bit [Livin On the Edge])… “If you can judge a wise woman by her decisions, Based on her individual experiences, Then mister your a wiser person than me!!!”

No dears… I will not be dying for some “cause.” There is “All Sides with Debbie Styers [Ann Fisher].” It is sad that some people cannot see another’s point of view…with love in their heart and understanding in their mind.
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Drops_Of_Jupiter wrote:
Hmmm… When I was younger, I would have “died” for many of my beliefs. But something happened… I got a business education and grew up.

I used to see only my side of the coin, the “right” side. Now I see multiple sides and angles. Let’s take the controversial topic of abortion. When younger, I knew in my heart that it is wrong. Then I met my best friend. She had an abortion when she was young. She explained her story and I felt her pain and understood. Still, it was “wrong” in my book. Then, I met another friend whose beliefs are “Its a woman’s body and her right to choose.” I don’t know that I agree with that. Seems really out there to me. ---- But I ask, “Who am I to judge??” I’m just a woman. I’ve never been pregnant. I’ve never been faced with the choice to make. How can I judge or stand for or against this???

Most all people in this world are doing the best that they can. Everyone makes choices based upon their experiences. Until I live another’s life, I don’t think I can judge.

I ask, " How can I die for issues that are so complex - and have an individual side to them as well?" An Aerosmith song comes to mind…(changing the lyrics a bit [Livin On the Edge])… “If you can judge a wise woman by her decisions, Based on her individual experiences, Then mister your a wiser person than me!!!”

No dears… I will not be dying for some “cause.” There is “All Sides with Debbie Styers [Ann Fisher].” It is sad that some people cannot see another’s point of view…with love in their heart and understanding in their mind.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Hey Babe - I appreciate the crayons [keyboard & forum.]

Did you know what makes humor, funny? LOL!!! It’s the tiny degree of truth in it.

As for the helmet… that is kind of like the old CB Rambo thing that truckers used to use. You know, you can say anything because no one knows who you are (because you are hiding behind a CB mike somewhere). I didn’t pick up the helmet. You have my real name right there. I see no reason to use a helmet. LOL…I reckon I appreciate the gesture though. LOL!
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:55 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Helmets are useful if things are dropping down from above.
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:07 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:15 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Drops_Of_Jupiter wrote:
Hmmm… When I was younger, I would have “died” for many of my beliefs.

““died””?

I imagine a priest on a funeral reading the last sacrament, and then saying here lies DOJ, he wiggles fingers “died” for his country.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:

Seriously, to quote Ray Stevens “Everyone is Beautiful.” Why make fun of some picture of some woman that probably has no clue your even using her picture.
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I think my point was lost on you.

Beauty actually means something. Not everyone or everything is beautiful. As soon as you universalized beauty you destroyed it.

Modern leftist-liberal-PC culture of making everyone feel like a beautiful precious snowflake is fucking stupid.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I think my point was lost on you.

Beauty actually means something. Not everyone or everything is beautiful. As soon as you universalized beauty you destroyed it.

Modern leftist-liberal-PC culture of making everyone feel like a beautiful precious snowflake is fucking stupid.

A person is born with her mother’s and father’s genes. She can only control so much of her physical appearance. Why make her feel less “beautiful” cause her face doesn’t meet your standards of beauty? That is not only cruelty, but it is also unnecessary.

I think its sad when people look for ugliness, instead of seeing the beauty in most all of life!

Do you fear that “universal beauty” will destroy your “special beauty?”
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:44 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Do you even know what beauty is, and means? Do you even believe in the concept of beauty?

It seems not.

You have re-defined beauty as “whatever makes me feel good”. It makes you feel bad to pass judgment on anyone for being “less beautiful”, therefore you have re-defined beauty as “never feeling bad by judging anyone for being less beautiful”. In the process of your aspirations to universal kindness and warm-feeling you have lost sight of reality, it seems.

You are free to go along with your female feeling of never feeling bad for judging anything in a way that might feel bad to someone else, by all means keep it up. But don’t pretend what you’re doing is either philosophy or has anything to do with what beauty really is.

No matter how much the feminish-leftist-liberal-politically correct paradigm doubles down on this approach, it will not change the fact that beauty means something and we are beings that respond to beauty and to what beauty indicates. No amount of warm-feeling liberalism will reverse ugliness and beauty, no matter how much you wish it could.

And of course physical beauty is connected to genes… so what? Does that somehow belie the fact that beauty is beauty? No it doesn’t. Everything has a reason and cause for being what it is, including beauty and ugliness. But again, feel free to pretend that isn’t the case.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:45 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
To me, the great ugliness is the fact that people like you have lost the ability to call ugly ugly, and beauty beauty.

It is profoundly ugly that you can no longer differentiate properly, all because it might not “feel good”, or something.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Beauty means of extraordinary quality that is pleasing to the sight.

You seem to limit sight to the surface…as in skin deep. The woman’s picture doesn’t meet your qualifications as beautiful because you see only her face. - Sadly, this I understand. However, I believe that the motto of …if you can’t practice kindness, then nothing should be said. Can you possibly imagine having your picture being mocked and posted online like this? It is simply hurtful, unkind and cruel. - Ironically, you seem to fancy yourself as a thinker. Yet, you think nothing of being hurtful! To me, that is ugliness.

I see beauty in that woman’s picture because I suspect she as seen it, has been hurt by people like you, yet…most likely goes on to live a somewhat “normal life.” But in truth… we really don’t know the damage those remarks under the woman’s picture has caused her! - Yeah, I can look at reality. I know beauty from ugliness.

— I read somewhere once that when a person lies to protect another’s feelings, it demostrates that the person has a higher IQ than someone who doesn’t, because it takes intelligence to actually consider another’s feelings.

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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:55 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
To me, the great ugliness is the fact that people like you have lost the ability to call ugly ugly, and beauty beauty.

It is profoundly ugly that you can no longer differentiate properly, all because it might not “feel good”, or something.

It doesnt feel good to the ugly, but nothing feels good to them. I mean ugly in the broad sense, like Obonko and Cloggcunt represent.
And this is the goal: to eliminate all good feelings, because some unfortunates don’t have the capacity for them.
That is Socialism in a nutshell: to level with unlimited violence and intrusion all mans feelings to those of the very most miserable miscreants.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:00 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Drops_Of_Jupiter wrote:
Beauty means of extraordinary quality that is pleasing to the sight.

You seem to limit sight to the surface…as in skin deep. The woman’s picture doesn’t meet your qualifications as beautiful because you see only her face. - Sadly, this I understand. However, I believe that the motto of …if you can’t practice kindness, then nothing should be said.

Then you are a slave.

Quote :
Can you possibly imagine having your picture being mocked and posted online like this? It is simply hurtful, unkind and cruel. - Ironically, you seem to fancy yourself as a thinker. Yet, you think nothing of being hurtful! To me, that is ugliness.

Your mind is deformed. It’s very ugly to look at. Cover it up, show some decency, slave.

That that woman is ugly is your judgment by the way, the picture doesn’t say that. its all in your mind.
So not only are you ugly, you are also cruel and mean to that poor woman, and without being able to help yourself.
Your subconsciousness decides that she is ugly and has you interpret the pic like that, and then your consciousness is scared of your judgment and blammes it on T.

Sad.

Quote :
I see beauty in that woman’s picture because I suspect she as seen it, has been hurt by people like you, yet…most likely goes on to live a somewhat “normal life.” But in truth… we really don’t know the damage those remarks under the woman’s picture has caused her! - Yeah, I can look at reality. I know beauty from ugliness.

— I read somewhere once that when a person lies to protect another’s feelings, it demostrates that the person has a higher IQ than someone who doesn’t, because it takes intelligence to actually consider another’s feelings.

Oh you read that, huh?
That’s impressive man.
Now you have your own opinion about IQ. That’s so awesome. Cherish that opinion. It’s super-important, slave.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
To me, the great ugliness is the fact that people like you have lost the ability to call ugly ugly, and beauty beauty.

It is profoundly ugly that you can no longer differentiate properly, all because it might not “feel good”, or something.

It doesnt feel good to the ugly, but nothing feels good to them. I mean ugly in the broad sense, like Obonko and Cloggcunt represent.
And this is the goal: to eliminate all good feelings, because some unfortunates don’t have the capacity for them.
That is Socialism in a nutshell: to level with unlimited violence and intrusion all mans feelings to those of the very most miserable miscreants.

Yeah, that ^

Jakob · November 25, 2018, 11:53pm

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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:06 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote, “And this is the goal: to eliminate all good feelings, because some unfortunates don’t have the capacity for them.
That is Socialism in a nutshell…”

Okay…I understand your furry at me and the need to defend your friend. However, I must ask, “In this furry did you lose your ability to think?”

All people (unless there is some rare or special disease that I don’t know about) feel. They have both good and bad feelings - and a spectrum of feelings. To say “some unfortunates don’t [feel]” shows no thought on your part.

LOL!!! It does show when frustrated your ability to name call comes out [socialist]. LOL!!
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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

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PostSubject: Re: A possible formula Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:21 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

LOL!!! Actually, I did say!! S M I L E LOL!!

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PostSubject: Trump Victory Santions: War for Love Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The ignorance of what Trump is has the form of the conviction that he is against love itself. What this means tis that the disenfranchised anarchists now have only one sanction;l to war for love over hate.

true rage is now employed under the word; Love.
This is good.

Absolute trembling skepsis along the abyss is now practiced in those media, that have lost their grip. This too is good.

The ID has come loose from the Real into the Word - and this word is now ‘Love over Hate’.
Precisely because this is the word, the Id has come loose.
The word-as-such as been revealed: self-valuing. The superego has become the id, which it always was. The monster of energy, no real face, just facets. At the eye of this storm now appears a figure - one question remains: what will come of his hair?

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Trump Victory Santions: War for Love Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Haha yeah you are right… all these raving angry people chanting “Love over hate” is pretty fucking ironic.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Trump Victory Santions: War for Love Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:20 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
They should all go south and be baptized in Georgia… under a weeping willow. Then theyll find the Jesus and his flaming sword.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Trump Victory Santions: War for Love Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:58 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A perfect example of why I don’t talk about the word “love” very often. The word has so many connotations, many of them negative.

Their love sure has been showing lately, hasn’t it?
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PostSubject: Re: Trump Victory Santions: War for Love Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This is a good summary of leftist insanity so far:

truthjustice.net/politics/ra … ent-trump/

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Trump Victory Santions: War for Love Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:00 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sadly that’s pretty close to reality today.

You fuck with my delusions and I will kill you.

Jakob · November 25, 2018, 11:57pm

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PostSubject: Negotiation Techniques Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:23 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EScVpo-1zlw[/youtube]

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Negotiation Techniques Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:44 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Excellent example of your quote!

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PostSubject: Open letter to Google, YouTube, Alphabet, DARPA, CIA Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:01 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Google – read this!

You can be a hero

Stop being the villain

Follow your own motto, “Don’t be evil”

You can make so much more money… helping humanity

Working with truth and not against it

I know you are reading this

Google

YouTube

Alphabet

NSA

DARPA

CIA

We need your help!

Work with us, not against us

The future needs you.

Do the right thing, Google

Be a hero of truth.

I know you can.

The future is yours, and ours

It belongs to truth

It belongs to humanity.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Open letter to Google, YouTube, Alphabet, DARPA, CIA Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:18 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Reading it and acting upon it are two totally different actions.

Last edited by Sisyphus on Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Open letter to Google, YouTube, Alphabet, DARPA, CIA Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:37 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Google – read this!

You can be a hero

Stop being the villain

Follow your own motto, “Don’t be evil”

You can make so much more money… helping humanity

Working with truth and not against it

I know you are reading this

Google

YouTube

Alphabet

NSA

DARPA

CIA

We need your help!

Work with us, not against us

The future needs you.

Do the right thing, Google

Be a hero of truth.

I know you can.

The future is yours, and ours

It belongs to truth

It belongs to humanity.

Shared on Facebook.

Also from Facebook:

i.imgur.com/0PmCSP0.png

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Open letter to Google, YouTube, Alphabet, DARPA, CIA Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:49 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Still searching for the truth, are you? Lots of luck with that one.
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PostSubject: Re: Open letter to Google, YouTube, Alphabet, DARPA, CIA Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Google, you’re on notice:

Until I determine that you have become the champion of truth (humanity) rather than its enemy, I will from this point onward be using DuckDuckGo instead of you.

Take notice. That’s -1 user for you. Until you change.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Open letter to Google, YouTube, Alphabet, DARPA, CIA Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
hey thats a nice one.

duckduckgo.com/?q=%22value+onto … =he&ia=web

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Open letter to Google, YouTube, Alphabet, DARPA, CIA Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:29 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
After clicking “more results”,

duckduckgo.com/?q=%22value+onto … =he&ia=web

Jakob · November 26, 2018, 12:05am

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PostSubject: Philosophy in present times Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Great stuff:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcEJr8h_yGM[/youtube]

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
“Our choices determine the destiny of the world… You get nailed when you make a stupid decision, because you’re altering the structure of reality, and it’ll snap back and take you out.” --Peterson

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Tue Mar 07, 2017 5:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I like that formulation.
Kinda fits to astrology.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
“Our choices determine the destiny of the world… You get nailed when you make a stupid decision, because you’re altering the structure of reality, and it’ll snap back and take you out.” --Peterson

Well, I like this quote. Very Taoist.
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:41 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Stupid used to mean “mentally slow,” and at one time used to describe a degree of retardation. Today, they don’t even use retardation anymore. I think the PC words for it are mentally challenged.

Looking at the quote from a Charles Darwin view, it seems to make sense. Only the smart and strong survive. But this brings up the question… is there such thing as “dumb luck?”
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:15 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, I think there is such a thing as dump luck. I generally refer to it as good fortune but it’s the same thing. Being in the right place at the right time, planned or unplanned.

If we want to be rained on we must go to where it is raining.

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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:38 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This starts getting interesting around 18 minutes, and seems to fall to shit around an hour or so. I stopped listening at an hour 20 min.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9eKURpdFM8[/youtube]

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Wed Mar 08, 2017 2:42 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
If one of us had been in that conversation things wouldn’t have devolved like that. What is lacking is a proper philosophical context, to avoid pointless categorical disagreements and to unite the scientific will properly under the ‘psychological’ truth that is, as you hear in that conversation above, struggling from both sides to break free, but can’t quite do so.

This “‘psychological’ truth” is, of course, self-valuing and the daemonic.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy

Last edited by Thrasymachus on Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:28 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Possible better continuation:

Harris: You can’t deny that the weaponizing of smallpox would represent a truth.

Peterson: Yes absolutely, there is a truth, or a set of facts, that is required to be understood and actualized in order to be able to weaponize smallpox. But what I am saying is that there are greater and lesser facts, greater and less truths.

Harris: Ok, so if I am understanding you here, you are saying that facts are facts, and that the totality of all fact might be called “truth”. But in addition, that within that domain of all facts, “truth”, there are greater and lesser facts, which corresponds to a greater or lesser degree of truth.

Peterson: Yes, absolutely. What I saying is that, and I agree with you about what you said just there that the totality of all facts is what “truth itself” means, in the broadest sense, or perhaps in the most scientific sense, but in addition to understanding this we also need to be able to look at particular ranges within this totality and realize that certain facts, or certain collections of facts, rank higher or lower based on a certain standard.

Harris: And what standard would that be? Because so far you have seemed to be saying that Darwinian selection and survival is the most fundamental standard.

Peterson: Well what I really mean to get at, is that when I said “reality is that which selects” what this really means is that certain truths, or facts if you like, are more significant, have more meaning and more reality based on how comprehensive they are; based on how many other facts they subsume under themselves, and based on the significance and far-reaching consequences that usher from those facts. Part of this significance and broader totality of consequences includes whether or not we will survive. So survivalism is indeed nested inside your sort of realism, or materialist realism, but there is also a larger category here: that even given the let’s call it scientific or empirical fact that survival and Darwinianism is nested inside of a larger realism, realism itself is also nested inside of a larger metaphysical space that we might call the universe of meaning, in which certain truths or facts acquire substance and potency, meaning and significance, based on the degree to which those truths lead to something. If the invention of weaponized smallpox leads to the annihilation of humanity then it is indeed correct to say that the weaponizing of smallpox was indeed true, and based on facts that made such a task possible, however we can’t stop there, we need to go a step further and say that this truth failed to rank higher than other truths which could have allowed for the persistence and expansion into actuality of even more truths, including in this case of course our own survival.

Harris: So you are claiming that even realism is nested inside of, what seems to be, its own rank-ordering and with respect to a certain kind of “metaphysical” significance?

Peterson: Well yes, but to be even more accurate, we need to isolate facts and truths and see how fundamental they are, which means we need to do a phenomenological reduction here on par with Husserl and try to eidetically identify the root of a fact, to find its necessity, and to see on what that fact depends and to what other facts it is linked.

Harris: Ok I think I am starting to see your perspective here, and I don’t think I necessarily disagree. To me, materialist realism is quite close to Hussal’s own phenomenological project, because while on the one hand we can always say that a fact is a fact and regardless whether or not any living beings are around to comprehend that fact, this fact itself, of knowing this, of stating that ‘a fact is a fact regardless…’, is itself also just another fact within the larger totality of facts.

Peterson: Exactly. And what is so interesting is that facts are infinite for this very reason, that not only do you have an individual fact like “such and such technological process in molecular biology will yield weaponized smallpox”, for example, but you also have to say that it is a fact that “such and such…”, basically you need to say that, of any fact at all, it is also a fact that that fact is the case. And then you open up a whole other universe of facts, derivative or meta-facts, which are facts about facts. This is why I was invoking Nietzsche earlier, because Nietzsche points out, correctly I think, that some facts are “just facts” while other facts are facts about facts, meta-facts if you will… and if we follow a kind of Platonic metaphysical example here, or Husserl even, we find that there are also facts about the fact which are about a fact, and all the way up and up, without end. Nietzsche was interested in climbing the ladder as high as he could, to identify the most summative and therefore fundamental of all facts. And if that is the project we and philosophy and science ought to be pursuing, then we must abandon so-called individual or merely self-sufficient facts, like whatever it takes to create weaponized smallpox for instance, as occupying a lower rung in the totality of all facts.

Harris: I like how you express this idea, and it seems we now agree that a fact is a fact regardless of its utility value to us or to anything else. Even if smallpox were to be synthesized in this way and ends up killing all humans, it is nonetheless a incontrovertible fact that such-and-such a process of producing that smallpox was indeed true. But now you’re bringing in a larger concern, and claiming that even though this is true, there are larger or more comprehensive truths, and that these latter are even more important. I find that interesting, because of my own interest in morality.

Peterson: This gets at the concept of self-valuing, which is also a fact. Self-valuing is the idea that all beings, whether we call them alive or not, exist in a way that they are self-valuing, namely that they hold themselves as the standard for their activities and interactions. So a human being values itself by acting and interacting in certain ways that implicitly, necessarily, hold that human being itself, as precisely what it is, even if it doesnt know what that is, as the core standard of measure and of value. Because if a human being did not do this then it would quite simply perish almost immediately. And this self-valuing logic also holds for any thing whatsoever, even fish and rocks and hydrogen atoms.

Harris: Then you are invoking Nietzsche here and attempting to condition realism to a larger moral principle, which to me seems somewhat similar to the notion of the will to power, which is also a survivalist notion.

Peterson: Yes and no. Survival is indeed necessary, but for one thing it is not sufficient, and for another thing it is not comprehensive. Survival does not encompass all that a being is, and indeed surviving is more like a secondary side-effect of that which a thing is. Darwin recognizes this when he realizes that selection is fundamentally driven by the contingent environmental conditions to which a living thing is subject. But it goes even deeper than that, because regardless of those contingent environmental conditions and contexts it is always the case that any being, whether or not it survives, was attempting to act and interact in such a way where it held what it is as a standard for those actions and interactions. A fish values water more than air, and a fish that attempts to value air over water will die. A rock values the distribution of force across its molecular bonds in such a way that maintains the integrity of the rock as structure, and when it is unable to distribute force in that way, for example if the force is just too strong for those chemical bonds, then the rock breaks apart, or melts, or whatever.

Harris: Now you have identified a subtle distinction here between living and nonliving things, because the rock is either able or unable to self-value, as you say, but a fish or a human seems to be able to make a kind of choice regarding its activities and interactions, and could possibly error in that choice even if the environment doesn’t create too great a force upon it, such as was the case with the rock that shattered or melted.

Peterson: Exactly right. This is also a Nietzschean or Platonic observation, because living things rank higher on the continuum of being, on the standard-order of “power” or of what is meaningful. Namely that living things have access to a whole new category of facts which stuff like rocks have no access to. The rock has no choice but to be a direct consequent of whatever its environment throws at it, although even despite this it is still the case that the rock is valuing itself, namely that that which the rock is, a certain molecular composite of chemical bonds and structures with certain physical properties for example, is going to act and interact with the imposing environmental forces in a predeterminate way, and that way is precisely that way which maximizes the chance of the rock remaining what it is, but within the bounds of what is possible for the rock to do. A rock has no option to, say, shift its angle to deflect an incoming force, because a rock has no muscular structure to move itself, no bone structure against which to generate kinetic force in its muscles to create such movements, and no sensory apparatus and corresponding neurological systems to integrate incoming data from the environment to determine that it should move itself like that. But a fish or a human does have those systems, which means the fish and the human have access to a whole new realm of reality. And this access gives them an increased range of possible values, although somewhat ironically it doesn’t mean that the fish or the human will survive longer than the rock will survive, in fact often it is the exact opposite.

Harris: So maybe living things are more contingent and fragile precisely because they have this newfound capacity for understanding their environment and changing their behavior accordingly?

Peterson: Well a living thing, ok any thing that has the subtle and highly complex inner structure able to for example possess eyes, a brain, muscles and bones, is necessarily going to be far more molecularly complex than is a rock, because the living thing needs to have all the lesser biological structures in place to even have eyes, muscles, etc. That involves DNA, and so many other things too. So it isn’t that the fish or the human is necessarily less survivable than is a rock merely because the fish and human have greater access to truth, rather there is a correlative element here that isn’t directly causal: namely, being able to have that greater access entails that a being is far more complex and conditional in its own ‘materiality’, to use your term, and therefore will have a lot more requirements that go along with maintaining and sustaining that materiality. But I think this goes hand in hand, and in a way evolution can be thought of as the process by which beings become so much more complex and conditional that they are required to “survive” in new and more demanding and precise ways than other things which are not as complex and conditional. A human has far more precise requirements to continue existing than for example does a rock, or does a hydrogen atom to use an even more extreme example.

Harris: I find this all quite fascinating. We seem to have combined our respective positions on “what is truth” into a larger purview, where not only is Darwinian selection nested inside realism, and realism is also nested inside a kind of selection principle too, but that this bi-conditional or dual structure is itself nested inside an even larger space, the space of the rank-ordering of truths with respect to a common principle of logic the you call self-valuing.

Peterson: I think this is the case. So we are both correct here. Morally speaking, we are realists that are always striving for a higher and more comprehensive picture of reality, so that means we both become more survivable and more exposed to new dangers, but all that is secondary; what is primary is that, the very fact that we are “always striving for a higher and more comprehensive picture of reality” is itself actually just a secondary expression of a more primary fact, namely that we are climbing further up the ladder of being.

Harris: So a proper philosophy would take all of this into account, and assign proper places to facts, and would always seek the larger purview of facts not only because that is going to make us have a greater change of survival, because sometimes it will also expose us to new dangers like the possibility of weaponizing a synthetic smallpox virus, but simply because that is exactly what it means for us to be us. Self-valuing requires that we keep pushing upward in this manner, expanding the sphere of our survivability and our mortality. This seems to explain how morality is so contentious and difficult to universalize, because every moral step, if your theory is correct, would be a step that both increases the moral “good” while also in the same way increasing the moral “bad”, and morality itself is the attempt to reconcile these together.

Peterson: Yes, to reconcile them together but in a very special way: in a way that not only includes and incorporates both the good and the bad, and not only implicitly or explicitly organizes goods and bads relative to each other and relative to contingent environmental factors, but also in a way that corresponds to the very climb into the universal itself, our continuing subsumption of lesser facts to greater facts. And further, what I was saying before about rank-ordering certain facts within the totality of all facts, the standard by which this is done is not merely with regard to that totality or to the climb or fall within it, but is actually necessarily grounded in that being which is actually doing the rank-ordering. Because this brings being back to itself, in Heidegger’s sense of man as “that being for which its own being is an issue”, we see that any being capable of attaining this high space within the totality of facts, within truth, is going to still be self-valuing, and therefore will rank-order not only with respect to the facts and fact-ranges at its perception and disposal and the various ‘objective’ thresholds and comprehensivities of those facts or ranges, but more importantly or at least as importantly it is going to be doing this rank-ordering still based on what that being itself is, its own values and requirements for existing.

Haris: Damn, now you have blown my mind completely. I need to rethink everything. We should work together and change the course of philosophy!

Peterson: Yes I think we ought to do that, and we can do it.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Someone once said something like, you should not expect different results if you continue doing the exact same thing over and over again.

I stopped getting married after three failed attempts.

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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:03 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Goddammit but I just fucking love this guy. Peterson I mean. Edit: Mil0 is great too.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6b_pWJkrhSg[/youtube]

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Goddammit but I just fucking love this guy. Peterson I mean. Edit: Mil0 is great too.

Fantastic.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:46 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
He explains exactly why I want Milo as press secretary.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:41 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
He explains exactly why I want Milo as press secretary.

He would undoubtedly be the best press secretary in history.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:43 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
When someone like Peterson already exists and has millions of interested followers, you realize that someone like Zizek is already 100% irrelevant.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Philosophy in present times Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:50 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
'Zek (kek) had value in bringing up a new vigor for theoretical psychology. But he never was a psychologist himself, he is rather autistic in fact - as it appears. He does not learn about human realities very well. Rather a matrix exists in his mind through which he wrings humanity and comes up with interesting sounding sentences, which spark thought in an intelligent human encountering this style for the first time.

Peterson is actually a kind of Socrates. I mean that in a good way.

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PostSubject: turns of phrase Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:43 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
“We should not be afraid of movement or competence; it is required to make necessary turns.”

Runeclaim

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: turns of phrase Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:34 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I dislike fear and do my best to throw it a side. However, fear is not something that is a should or should not. It is an emotion, a feeling. The Runeclaim quote says, “We should not be afraid.” The quote would be better to have started with, “Don’t be afraid…”

Please don’t tell people how they “should” feel.
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PostSubject: Re: turns of phrase Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah, fear is a favorite concept of mine.

It is an instinct. It helps us while we are in our life learning phase. But at some point I think we should have acquired enough knowledge of life so that we can throw away most, if not all, of our fears. Understanding replaces most fears. Understanding inspires respect and this respect can replace fear.
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PostSubject: Re: turns of phrase Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:03 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Yeah, fear is a favorite concept of mine.

It is an instinct. It helps us while we are in our life learning phase. But at some point I think we should have acquired enough knowledge of life so that we can throw away most, if not all, of our fears. Understanding replaces most fears. Understanding inspires respect and this respect can replace fear.

Sadly, most of us find a comfort zone and never re-test the boundaries…

I think fear needs to be felt every now and again to ensure “we are being all we can be.”
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PostSubject: Re: turns of phrase Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:04 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Drops_Of_Jupiter wrote:

Sadly, most of us find a comfort zone and never re-test the boundaries…

I think fear needs to be felt every now and again to ensure “we are being all we can be.”

True that. Now in old age I have my comfort zones. But I have said before, we each should test our capabilities and capacities now and then just to see if anything has changed.
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PostSubject: Re: turns of phrase Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:53 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Yeah, fear is a favorite concept of mine.

It is an instinct. It helps us while we are in our life learning phase. But at some point I think we should have acquired enough knowledge of life so that we can throw away most, if not all, of our fears. Understanding replaces most fears. Understanding inspires respect and this respect can replace fear.

Fear is a hormonal means of greasing the organism to respond to certain situations naturally. In a society like ours it impedes more often than it serves. And yet to release all fears is irrational, as there are many unknown unknowns that we may have to be alert for when they arrive into the sphere of knowns.

Vigilance. That is the aspect of what once was fear in apes, that we men must maintain. But make no mistake, vigilance is a daughter of fear, and certainly no stranger.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: turns of phrase Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:18 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

[quote=“Fixed Cross”]
Sisyphus wrote:

Fear is a hormonal means of greasing the organism to respond to certain situations naturally. In a society like ours it impedes more often than it serves. And yet to release all fears is irrational, as there are many unknown unknowns that we may have to be alert for when they arrive into the sphere of knowns.

Vigilance. That is the aspect of what once was fear in apes, that we men must maintain. But make no mistake, vigilance is a daughter of fear, and certainly no stranger.

No serious problem with your first paragraph. However, your “release all fears” is questionable. Are we releasing (ignoring) our fears or are we replacing our fears with knowledge, understanding and respect? I prefer the latter.

But I do agree, if we must remain vigilant there is obviously something we fear that we must remain vigilant for. But really, we don’t need to fear the lion anymore. Not many of them roaming around free. But there are a lot of stupid people.
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PostSubject: Re: turns of phrase Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
return man 3 hacked Fear can convert into power.

Last edited by Thismare89 on Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: turns of phrase Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:33 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thismare89 wrote:
Fear can convert into power.

But generally that power will be used irrationally.
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PostSubject: Re: turns of phrase Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thismare89 wrote:
Fear can convert into power.

How?

Jakob · November 26, 2018, 12:10am

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PostSubject: Joy in Truth Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Die Wahrheit zu sagen, wenn die Unwahrheit herrscht, ist mit so viel Vergnügen gemischt, dass der Mensch ihretwegen das Exil, ja noch Schlimmeres erwählt.

“To speak the truth, when the lie rules, is mixed with so much joy, that the person will for its sake choose exile or even worse.”

Nietzsche, notebooks, fall 1876

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: Joy in Truth Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I stopped telling lies a long time ago. I couldn’t remember which lies I had told which people so I just said “to hell with it” and started telling the truth. Some people didn’t like it and wanted me to return to lying. I refused.

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PostSubject: Critique my concerns about Trump Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

Trump made a statement indicating he is aware of Hilary’s connection to missing children in Haiti, these children being taken by the thousands for the sex trade, m.youtube.com/watch?v=KMJoNl2RHIU this is related to Pizzagate of course, and some of it may be untrue or baseless conspiracy thinking but I’ve looked into it as much as I can stand to do, and it seems quite possibly true. Indeed Trump is making a joke here, seems to be joking about her involvement in this.
which brings me to my second point that Trump has made seriously fucked up sexual comments about his daughter, in more that one occasion. It’s hard to fathom a father even being capable of saying those things about his daughter, especially when she was still a child. Which leads me to my third point,
Trump visited Epstein’s pedo-sex mansion and flew on his sex plane “Lolita Express”. Old interviews with Trump show he was good friends with Epstein, but after the sex scandals broke Trump distanced himself from him. Trump’s lawyer even claimed they had no connection, which according to previous interviews was a blatant lie.
this is all connected into the following: Trump did not call out Bill Clinton for visiting Epstein’s pedo-sex mansion (Bill Clinton went there over 20 known times), and more importantly the leftist media who would stop at nothing to attack Trump personally and demean his character, never once mentioned his known connection to Epstein. Why is this? Most likely because it’s not just Trump but so many powerful politicians that are connected into that.
Trump’s current wife (actually his fourth wife) slipped in an interview and alluded to the fact that she was a prostitute when they met. I can’t find the clip right now but I’ve seen it.
leaving that stuff behind for a moment, Trump knows the Clintons and has been quite friendly with them. It’s very hard to imagine that he is really this obstinate, independent person not beholden to anyone but himself and really a true political outsider, although yes that is possible. But what I see is also possible and perhaps more likely is that Trump is friendly with the Clintons and others in positions of political power, and he basically just knew what to say and how to act to "be a politician himself. He has plenty of acting experience, he knows how to play a crowd and what to say to win the favor of his crowd. And back when I first disliked Trump I catalogued times when he blatantly lied, even knowing full well that the previous things he had said (about which he was now lying) were on video for anyone to see.
Trump is not following through on repealing Obamacare. This is very important, Obamacare is perhaps the worst piece of legislation signed by Obama except for maybe the NDAA which establishes an Orwellian Ministry of Truth, making the government responsible for determining which statements in the media and public published discourse are true or untrue, and sanctioning the development of propaganda to that end.

Obamacare is 20,000 pages of regulations, and massive unfunded liabilities to “care for people” at government expense; not only this but it also is a massive payout to insurance companies, a violation of the first amendment by mandating everyone purchase a product (health insurance), and basically hands over healthcare services to crony monopoly control.

If Trump were for real he would be rejecting the neocons like Ryan and others pushing their own “Obamacare Lite” which basically capitulates to the principle of the ACA, and will only make it worse by leaving in place massive liabilities while undercutting the funding streams for them. They are voting on Thursday on this Ryancare bil, and I hope it fails hard. But it is telling that Trump is actually championing it and trying to get other Republicans on board.

Anyway these are my concerns so far. I hope I am wrong about all of them. Please critique them, because I am hoping they can be somehow discredited as critiques. I want to think Trump is legit too, but I am having my doubts.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Critique my concerns about Trump Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:50 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
In addition, Trump’s budget is basically debt-neutral, because all of his cuts are compensated by increases to the military.

Both Obama and Trump each ran on being anti-establishment and critical of foreign wars, yet both of them seriously increased military spending… at least that is what Trump wants to do, if his budget passes.

The current situation:

^ Would an anti-war candidate really be adding to that?

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Critique my concerns about Trump Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:19 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah its looking dirty.

It’s gonna get fucking messy if he allows for this bill.

On the sex issues, I dont want to say too much, dont want this site to get traction on account of that shit, thats the worst - but it looks like everyone has something really bad over everyone elses head. We can do the game theory math based on this and conclude that all fighting will stay indirect, as direct attacks would result in jailtime for big players, which would result injailtime for other big players.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: Critique my concerns about Trump Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I also do not want BTL to get bogged down like that either. Trump represents something positive, even if he himself is somehow compromised in some ways, his movement is still a Sign. But you’re right about the healthcare bill, Trump could easily be a 1-term president if he doesn’t back off this and find real solutions. Fuck the establishment, that is the sentiment that got him elected, and rightly so.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Critique my concerns about Trump Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:34 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It’s not even the negativity, it’s also the search terms and all that, it’s all so nasty, that world of the sexually depraved.
It should not surprise us that a thick slimy layer of it pervades the entire establishment, and certainly Trumps overt “lewdness” should be mightily uncomfortable for any of the more serious deviants. Likely he has some blackmail boxes as life insurance.

I’m glad to hear you say Trump stands for something positive- he still does - and his victory is definitely positive, but I hope he does not turn out to be just ‘the lesser evil’, rather than an actual good president.

Regardless though, change has set in. If Trump doesn’t push through, we’ll be guaranteed another couple of years of upheaval, and eventually the extortion system is going to tumble.

Sometimes I think the white house just has some kind of electrical signal running through it that makes drones out of people.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: Critique my concerns about Trump Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:42 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
He should have permanently relocated to Trump Tower. Fuck the White House.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Critique my concerns about Trump Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
He should have permanently relocated to Trump Tower. Fuck the White House.

Maybe he still will. If enough threats and intruders come in it would be easy to justify it.
The protests he’ll get around Trump Tower would be like the pious circling that odd black cube in Mecca.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: Critique my concerns about Trump Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:05 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fuck mecca too.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Critique my concerns about Trump Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:42 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It was not meant as a compliment.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: Critique my concerns about Trump Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:11 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Haha yeah, it would be impossible to compliment something like that. That’s why apparently it only inspires mindless prostration.

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PostSubject: Ode to the Real Women Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6rBK0BqL2w[/youtube]

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Ode to the Real Women Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:29 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
She almost smiles a couple of times, but otherwise looks pretty bored throughout. Haha, gvd damn.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnHbZAB_U-Q[/youtube]

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Ode to the Real Women Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:40 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Ode to the Real Women Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:42 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppO5HwJjPEM[/youtube]

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Ode to the Real Women Tue Mar 28, 2017 2:42 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Ibanez makes good guitars. I should know, I have one.

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PostSubject: What is academia? Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:24 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Academia is joy-taking in the abandonment of mind.

But as it turns out, a mind is needed for joy to exist.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is academia? Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I practice empty-minded meditation.

This is beyond joy and sorrow.

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PostSubject: Re: What is academia? Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:32 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don’t believe in “emptying” the mind. But I’ve done those meditations myself, years ago.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is academia? Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:16 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I don’t believe in “emptying” the mind. But I’ve done those meditations myself, years ago.

I don’t force it. Sometimes it happens and sometimes it doesn’t.
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PostSubject: Re: What is academia? Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:34 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I look the minds eye in its eye and it breaks into silence.
But it is within thunder.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is academia? Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:39 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Academia is just breeding.

The Greek notion of an education in different disciplines was simply a way to learn discipline. These fields were means, not ends.
Academia in these early days was a means to hone men out of beasts.

Perhaps one day, when Pezer is back, some shit can be re infused with a vigor that is long lost. But for now let the fever rage until it breaks. Memes are the only language to approach the absurdity.

Memes and cold chicken.

Jakob · November 26, 2018, 12:15am

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: What is academia? Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
I look the minds eye in its eye and it breaks into silence.
But it is within thunder.

Yes, the monkey mind is what it is. Hard to tame that beast. But in reality it is only the mind stating that there is still unfinished business.

The less importance we place on our unfinished business the quieter the thunder becomes.

Or. the sooner we can finish our unfinished business the quieter the thunder becomes.

To sleep without dreams and awake without worry. This is a mind at peace.
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PostSubject: Re: What is academia? Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:43 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Academia is just breeding.

The Greek notion of an education in different disciplines was simply a way to learn discipline. These fields were means, not ends.
Academia in these early days was a means to hone men out of beasts.

I wish I had had a good education when I was young. I quit school in the 10th grade to join the Army. That was my best available option.

But I feel I have done pretty well after having awakened to the importance of having a varied base of knowledge.

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PostSubject: Re: What is academia? Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3nAmULix0[/youtube]

^ “I was brainwashed by public schools.”

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PostSubject: Good versus bad Rhetoric Sat May 06, 2017 3:34 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A nice article with a sound thesis.

aeon.co/essays/what-is-the-diff … l-rhetoric

Quote :
Athens’ downfall provides us with a cautionary tale in our own era. While it would be wrong to reject a persuasive speech simply because the speaker fails to belong to our preferred political party, it would be equally wrong to think that we should accept every speech that strikes us as persuasive. Adolf Hitler’s Nuremberg Rallies of the 1920s and ’30s were highly effective propaganda tools in consolidating power for the Nazi Party and influencing the views of the German people, but the wider effects of his ability to fabricate a redeemed Germany were devastating for the country. The principle here is simple: good rhetoric is not reducible to persuasive rhetoric. Persuasion might often be the goal of the rhetorician, but if rhetoric is to serve some civic good, it must serve the people on whom it operates. Plato was the first to observe that persuasion cannot in fact be the proper end of rhetoric, since it is an open question how it serves the interests of an audience to have their views influenced by a persuasive speech.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Good versus bad Rhetoric Sat May 06, 2017 4:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Very true, I would say. It is good to be persuasive, persuasiveness as such is a virtue, but that does not mean that that which is persuaded for is always good, nor that it is always good to be persuaded.

Likewise we can say that unpersuasiveness is not necessarily a vice, because it is not always bad to be unpersuasive. For example, if someone has very bad ideas then it is in their and everyone else’s best interest that this person not be very persuasive.

Persuasiveness is just the way in which arguments are formulated to produce agreement and/or understanding in others. Rhetoric as an early form of marketing.

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PostSubject: Blue pillers Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:53 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
What do blue pillers like typical libs, SJWs, academics, “moderates”, Christian conservatives, actually fight for?

They are fighting for the right to keep believing what authority tells them. They are fighting to be able to never take responsibility for their own beliefs, emotions, thoughts, and for their own lives.

It really is that simple.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Blue pillers Mon Apr 17, 2017 6:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Socialism and communism (socialism is just communism-lite) are literally the end of the idea of self-responsibility. These “people” would all vote for any politician who promised them free weekly food stamps and opiates. That is their model of “the good life”.

Fuck Bernie Sanders too, that self-righteous fucking brain dead thieving retard.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Blue pillers Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
These motherfuckers aren’t even human.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: Blue pillers Mon Apr 17, 2017 11:42 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
These motherfuckers aren’t even human.
Well said.

And yes, they are socialists but don’t you dare tough their money.

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PostSubject: Re: Blue pillers Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Sisyphus wrote:
Thrasymachus wrote:
These motherfuckers aren’t even human.
Well said.

And yes, they are socialists but don’t you dare tough their money.

Lol.

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PostSubject: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:17 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods. v
Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods. v
vPhilosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods. v
Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods. v
Philosophers are Gods.
Philosophers are Gods.

Philosophers are Gods. Philosophers are Gods.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy

Last edited by Capable on Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:20 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
H.
H.H.
H.
H.
H.H.H.H.H.

H.H.
H.
H.H.

H.H.H.H.H.

H.H.H.H.
H.
H.
H.
vH.H.H.H.H.H.
H.H.
H.
H.H.

Looking to turn my piss into wine.

Killing me just the same.

And I feel this coming over like a storm again.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
A cross is not a cross, it is a rising star.

Star

Rise

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 10:31 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Etc. Etc.
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vv
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“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:38 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Begging for your fatass dirty dollar.
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(ding ding dong dong bee beep)

(la la tee daa da le laa)

Begging for your fatass dirty dollar.
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vv
Begging for your fatass dirty dollar.Begging for your fatass dirty dollar.Begging for your fatass dirty dollar.
Begging for your fatass dirty dollar.Begging for your fatass dirty dollar.

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“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:39 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
God should fuck himself so He feels what it feels like. To be fucked, I mean.

“Creation” . Ok then

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:50 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Lie cheat and steal.

No one is inno

cent.

RAH

(Undertow)

(Riff riff)

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:53 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
But I’m breathing so I guess I’m still alive

Even is signs seem to tell me otherwise

Do unto others what has been done to you
My lamb and martyr

For

One

Sweet

Moment

I am

Home …

Do unto me now
What has been done to me

Even if signs seem to tell me otherwise

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 11:57 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:00 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Why can’t we be sober? --Socrates (or Tool)

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:06 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
But my soul must be iron
Because my fear is naked

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:17 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Why don’t you watch where you’re wandering
Why don’t you watch where you’re stumbling

I mean, Jesus fucking Christ on a cracker

You’re still stumbling

No one even invited you in

Suffocate

No one

Told you
To

Come

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:03 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 1:10 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:04 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fun fact: If you’re wearing headphones, people will leave you alone, even if you’re not listening to anything.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fun fact #2: Game of Thrones sucks.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:09 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fun fact #3: tigers are cool.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:10 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fun fact #4: wearing a red clown nose through airport security, with no explanation at all, is hilarious.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:13 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fun fact #5: Black Widow says love is for children, but actually Black Widow is for children.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 4:01 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fun fact #6: A woman’s soul simply stops at a certain point.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:57 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 6:59 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
If a woman’s soul stops at a certain point, this means it is bordered by something… hard reality contact.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Tue Nov 01, 2016 9:01 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Capable wrote:
If a woman’s soul stops at a certain point, this means it is bordered by something… hard reality contact.

Man.

Jakob · November 26, 2018, 12:16am

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Pezerocles wrote:

Freedom is to completely take ownership. There is no altar of excess:
excess is what we do with OUR property. What we decide to do is not
determined by what is available to us, it is determined by what we own:
excess exists only after we have made something ours, after a whatever
has been subjected by the process of valuing from self value. Do I go left?
Do I go right? This question does not exist for freedom except as a tickle.
Something being disposed of is something owned and freedom in action.
The deep darkness is not god, it is fundamentally ours. God can be owned
too! So… Ownership is freedom.

Jakob · November 26, 2018, 12:30am

Message
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PostSubject: The end of thinking Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:05 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Modern technology especially TV and the internet have caused a regression in thinking for most people. Smart phones made it worse. We enjoyed a brief window of time where more people were interested in thinking, maybe 10% or so of all people in the west, but that ended between the late 1990s and 2010. Thinking requires free time without distractions, and that isn’t possible anymore since people are endlessly distracted by their technology.

So 10% has become 1%, probably less. Not only that but life has become such a burden of work and debt that people need the distractions even more now, and have even less free time. So basically no one thinks anymore, except us.

Oh well. RIP humanity.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:55 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well, I think I still think.

And apparently you had no one to cause you to think so you thought on your own. Self-inspired thought. You done good.

But yes, so many people believe they have so much to do that they just don’t have time to be thinking. They let the Media do it for they. Sponges?

Would you believe it? I don’t even own a cell phone.

But then, I don’t, very often, sit around thinking about things I have no control over.

It’s actually pretty nice living alone in my old age.

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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:20 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Right, age is only feared by those who have nothing more to do, to think, to become… imagine being a “finished” being at 19. Lol.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:48 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Right, age is only feared by those who have nothing more to do, to think, to become… imagine being a “finished” being at 19. Lol.

That would be sad. At 19 I was on my way to Germany for my first tour of duty there. Just beginning a life of wonderment.

Nietzsche told us to live beyond good and evil. I suggest we can live beyond death. (The death of the fear of dying.)
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:56 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Anyone who is afraid of dying is simply not really living. But I can understand sadness over dying, having to lose others we care about. Fear of pain is also rational or at least mostly unavoidable… but fear of dying, to me that makes no sense at all.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:45 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Anyone who is afraid of dying is simply not really living. But I can understand sadness over dying, having to lose others we care about. Fear of pain is also rational or at least mostly unavoidable… but fear of dying, to me that makes no sense at all.

Fears will always hold us back from doing what we naturally want to do in life. They are limiters we have allowed our fears to place upon us.

I can’t say I have a fear of pain but I sure don’t like pain. I prefer pleasure.

The pain of losing those we care about was spoken to very well by the Buddha. He spoke to the importance of not forming permanent attachments with others as well as to things. And in Daoism we speak of the constant changing of the Ten Thousand Things - the coming and going of material things, including people. Basically, the importance of acknowledging the natural processes of the universe.

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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:35 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I don’t believe in artificial “detachment” from meaning.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:24 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
I don’t believe in artificial “detachment” from meaning.

Great perspective. Chuang Tzu would have enjoyed hearing that, I think.

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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Not sure where to post this, so I will just post it here. Pretty funny.

Stranger: what do you think of Trumps transgender ban?
You: I am undecided so far. I can see how it makes sense, but I haven’t studied the issue enough yet.
Stranger: its discriminatory
You: True, but everything is discriminatory, it is just a question of whether that is rational or not
Stranger: theres nothing wrong with trans people in the military, they are like you or i
You: I don’t know that, because who knows if ‘transgender’ is really a mental health issue or not? It seems like it probably is. Mentally ill people are not allowed into the military. Also, Trump consulted with his top military people and I am sure they are aware of any issues or problems associated with transgenders in the military.
Stranger: who cares your gender! trans people are people too, you just hate them cause you dontknow them
You: Who cares about gender? Well these “trans” people sure seem to care about it, a lot more than the rest of us. Also there is no such thing as “transgender”, there are only two genders and you cannot change them because this is your chromosomes. But you can definitely alter your gender expression.
Stranger: fuck you, bigot
You: Haha.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:38 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
That conversation didn’t go well, did it?

The military has been screwed up every since the draft was ended. That’s the early 1970s.

They have had to constantly lower prerequisites in order to get the units’ positions filled.

Won’t be long they will be allowing chimps to enlist.
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:46 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, chimps and droids, cybernetically enhanced chimps - with six genders, fifteen phalli, seventeen vaginal orifices and no ears or noses, to strategically upset the enemy into a bout of disgusted laughter to the end of having them all choke in their vomit…

it is highly advanced strategy man.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:55 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Yes, chimps and droids, cybernetically enhanced chimps - with six genders, fifteen phalli, seventeen vaginal orifices and no ears or noses, to strategically upset the enemy into a bout of disgusted laughter to the end of having them all choke in their vomit…

it is highly advanced strategy man.

Well, you went a bit further that I did but I can relate to what you said.

I mean, governments do have to have someone or some thing to do their killing for them.

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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:13 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Cybernetic multigenders. I should get the patent.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:52 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Cybernetic multigenders. I should get the patent.

You would become the wealthy man on the planet.
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sat Jul 29, 2017 12:01 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
“He spoke to the importance of not forming permanent attachments with others as well as to things.”

Fucking, what’s the point of any of this then.

A sik þau trûðu

Nisus ait, “Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?”

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man’s furious passion become his god?

Virgil.

It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Parodites wrote:
“He spoke to the importance of not forming permanent attachments with others as well as to things.”

Fucking, what’s the point of any of this then.

All we ever have are our attachments to others, and to ‘things’.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:21 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
I didn’t leave my house or interact with another human for literally a decade, the only thing I got from the no attachment thing was a lot of free time, which allowed me to get a lot done I guess. But there is no wisdom in it.

What is love if it isn’t a permanent attachment. Maybe there was wisdom in my refusal of attachment, maybe I was wiser once but, if love makes you unwise, “wisdom requires moderation, as does everything else.”

A sik þau trûðu

Nisus ait, “Dine hunc ardorem mentibus addunt,
Euryale, an sua cuique deus fit dira cupido?”

Have the gods set this ruling passion in my heart,
or does each man’s furious passion become his god?

Virgil.

It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must
from time to time be present.-- Antonin Artaud
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:51 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yeah, the whole Eastern religious thing of “no attachments” is just a cop out, an excuse to allow the mind and heart to die a quiet death. Return to the nothingness from which you came. Entropy of thanatos.

Basically it is lazy philosophizing. The concept of nirvana is the same, you try to get rid of your desires and attachments in order to achieve… what? Some sort of ideal, perfect and eternal state. Yeah, that is called death, and it isn’t a “state” of anything.

The philosophy of no attachments is an ideological means of killing thought, reason, passion, and emotional honesty, and I am sure this serves a purpose, namely to make people complacent so they can be ruled and controlled more easily. “Oh well, life is shit, but life is an illusion anyway! Just disassociate yourself from your suffering!” Lol.

Why is thought, reason, passion, (and desire), and emotional honesty difficult? Because these demand something of us, these demand we make mistakes and own those mistakes so we can learn the next time around. They mandate a progressive journey into self-knowledge and correcting our errors, both cognitively and emotionally. That is the true path, to admit our errors and work harder to own and fix them. This also requires humility, which means real humility rather than they fake cop out of “well we all die, life is an illusion, don’t have attachments, desires are not real, blah blah blah” and all that fucking bullshit.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:54 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
When faced with problems there are two options: either you honestly address the problem and try to fix it, which is hard, or you just close your eyes and go “la la la” and pretend the problem doesn’t exist, which is easy.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:23 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well, consider that a vacuum cleaner is useless without attachments.

This attachment concept has been severely messed up by the “new age” philosophers.

The Buddha proposed it in the light of not making “permanent” attachments with things and others as if they were a part of who we are. There is nothing in the universe that is permanent.

We have to understand that things are going to break and people are going to die and that is just the way of the nature of the universe.

Sure, we should hold those we care about in love. We should care for the things that make our life easier. But we must understand that our life will continue until it is our time to transmutate.

Because we lose a loved one or because we lose something that was of great value to us isn’t grounds for us to alter our way of life. We can love other people and we can buy new things.

Its all just the passing of time. When we try to hold too tightly we will always face great suffering when we lose that whatever.

The end of suffering was the Buddha’s major goal.
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:21 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Attachment is the basic category of existing. We are attached to reality, by definition. Eastern philosophy is really about making better attachments over time, but isn’t honest enough to come out and say that. It just cloaks it in “attachment / desire is bad” rhetoric.

Denial is never an answer. You should always confront reality and improve it over time. That is truth-seeking, and the ontological basis of existence as such.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
If you have good things to attach yourself to, then more attachment = better. If you have bad things to attach yourself to, then more attachment = bad.

So obviously the problem isn’t “attachment” itself.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:08 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Yes, but not until VO was there any philosophy of attachment.
No philosophy could prescribe attachment without limiting.

Buddha was very attached - to his peace of mind. A western philosopher doesn’t have that attachment.

This is what didn’t work for me in Buddhism, this insistence on peace. Fuck peace. I want life, which includes struggle with contradiction, or even is that.

Buddhism tends to hone in on those attachments we can’t shed, like breath. It then becomes a religion of breathing, attaching with extreme intensity to the breath, seeking all value and meaning in it. And that works pretty well, but it is certainly not shedding attachment, it is focussing attachment on something one can control relatively well.

Gravity is the basic Zen attachment. Zen meditation consists largely of physically being as a mass.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: The end of thinking Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
If you have good things to attach yourself to, then more attachment = better. If you have bad things to attach yourself to, then more attachment = bad.

So obviously the problem isn’t “attachment” itself.

Yeah!

What more can I say? You did that very well.

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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Fri May 05, 2017 6:13 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Jim - do wars ever bring about peace?
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Sat May 06, 2017 12:49 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Drops_Of_Jupiter wrote:
Jim - do wars ever bring about peace?

Well, the USA is at peace with Japan and Germany. So I guess I have to say, “Yes, sometimes.”

But we are not at peace with North Korea or most of the Middle East countries.

The USA’s involvement in Korea, Vietnam, and the Middle East have all been failures because they were fought based on lies by our government. Even winning a war does not imply peace if the war was dishonorable.
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Sat May 06, 2017 3:10 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The US seems to have done better in wars they did not themselves begin.
Perhaps this is roughly the law: either you start a war, or you win one.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Sat May 06, 2017 4:54 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
The US seems to have done better in wars they did not themselves begin.
Perhaps this is roughly the law: either you start a war, or you win one.

Great observation. I love the simplicity of that maxim:

“Either you start a war, or win one.”

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: G(v)d Sat May 06, 2017 7:31 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
The US seems to have done better in wars they did not themselves begin.
Perhaps this is roughly the law: either you start a war, or you win one.

Yes. Very well said.

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PostSubject: I want more women’s equality Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Real equality would mean women also have to struggle and suffer and work equally as men do. Not being sheltered and expecting things for free. The collapse of the welfare state, for example. The end of alimony. The end of quotas and affirmative action, which is far more insulting and harmful to women especially than to men. The ideal of self-ownership and self-responsibility.

Using sex and flirtation as a weapon is a good example of why women aren’t equal, and don’t want to be. Not all women of course, but this applies to the ones who do these things. We’ve all known women like this. Luckily I stayed away from these women, but others haven’t been so lucky.

Not equality of outcomes but equality of demands, of self-value self-reliance. Not using others for one’s own gain at their expense; any man who uses others for his own gain and at the ruin of the other is basically just a whoring woman, trying to steal “free” stuff from reality at high irrationality of cost, at the mutual destruction of truth. The proper nature of women is to give, not to demand and take. And this holds for men as well – that is the gender equality that I want.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: I want more women’s equality Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:50 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: I want more women’s equality Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:58 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Self-responsibility brings self-respect.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: I want more women’s equality Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:59 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

thetower.org/wp-content/uplo … 75x320.jpg

just took it from google images, didn’t read the article but here it is - I think that’s real feminism in the Socialist sense where they had communities.
I was in one of these for a few months in 1998. Pretty nice living, especially if you can get foreign kids to do your chores for a bed, their crappy food (Jews cannot cook) and 1 shekel an hour. Lol.

thetower.org/article/some-zi … fulfilled/

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

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PostSubject: Re: I want more women’s equality Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:08 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
Self-responsibility brings self-respect.

I totally agree with this.

And yes, I have known many women who have earned their self-respect.
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PostSubject: Re: I want more women’s equality Thu May 18, 2017 12:12 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: I want more women’s equality Thu May 18, 2017 12:58 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Want respect? Earn it!
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PostSubject: Re: I want more women’s equality Fri May 19, 2017 1:25 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
That’s what I’m saying.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: I want more women’s equality Fri May 19, 2017 1:56 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:

^ this guy is very perceptive and articulate. The only thing I find to disagree with in what he says here is the idea that only people with kids should vote. But I understand his point.

The idea that people shouldn’t be able to vote if they take more then they contribute in taxes/welfare is another tricky idea. I understand the reasoning here, but in practice I can’t see that working. We don’t want to move from one sort of authoritarianism/repression to another. I think we have to win on the basis of ideas, which requires all people participating in the process, and voting is just one way that ideas are thrown together to product an outcome on the basis of those ideas. The decline of standards and rationality is easily observable when you let these people vote, and because it’s easy to see it’s also easier to refute its errors.

So now it’s just a race between the natural process of rising ideation to a higher truth standard in the open discourse, versus the importing of millions of uneducated non-Western people. Truth process within the west versus demographics.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: I want more women’s equality Fri May 19, 2017 11:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Thrasymachus wrote:
That’s what I’m saying.

I’m glad we get to agree on something now and again.

Jakob · November 26, 2018, 12:34am

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PostSubject: Reality Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:36 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
To a good extent, we are what we appear to be. After all, the beings that interact with us act with respect to us in the way that they do because of our appearance.
Naturally, the mode of perception of the perceiver determines halfway the appearance. The other half is what we project.

Evolution therefore also happens in terms of appearances.
Whether a male is seen as fit for the eggs of a female is determined by how the male appears. Hence, the mating dance, the peacocks feathers, and the wide proliferation of forms throughout the animal and plant kingdoms.

So, what we can accomplish determines on what we project.
What we can project relies on what we are.
What we do project is determined largely by what is projected to us.
Often we do not know what we are capable of projecting - and with that, what we are capable of becoming.

“Adapt to the venom”
that was what the snake told Eve,
the forbidden knowledge of how we got where we are.

Taboo, which can only be released in the daemonic reaching. This is why we do what we do as a species, why we build what we build and make it so big and dangerous. It has nothing to do with what we would be able to make use of, even less what is necessarily to our benefit, it simply follows from the fact that can’t possibly do anything besides create beyond ourselves, and this terrifies us now, and thus this building is suffused with terrible motives and dank tastes.

Capitalistic growth is the same as militaristic proliferation, and both of it is necessary for us to not go insane. Unless or until an earthly logos is found.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: Reality Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:03 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Agree that others respond to us according to how they perceive us.

So the image of our self we are projecting should be within our capabilities to reify.

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PostSubject: The joy of the gods Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:05 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
“perhaps this is the true joy of the gods, that they can create perfection.”

a helrunar

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PostSubject: Re: The joy of the gods Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:30 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
“perhaps this is the true joy of the gods, that they can create perfection.”

Then why haven’t they done so thus far?
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PostSubject: Re: The joy of the gods Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:36 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Excuse you?
What about me?

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: The joy of the gods Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:03 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
Excuse you?
What about me?

Sorry about overlooking you.

Okay, aside from you, I see little that qualifies as perfect to all observers.

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PostSubject: What is liberal/leftism? Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:20 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Many artists and writers and ‘emotional’ people are on the left. Why?

I have a theory that liberal/leftism is a symptom of how mental energy-effort is being used (or not used), specifically that mentality as a whole is curbed so that mental effort can be allocated in one direction only, toward one’s domain of art for example, so that there is a pool of such energy able to be utilized toward one area. Stephen King is well known for hating Trump and conservatives for example, and despite seeming highly intelligent he is unable to see how liberal leftism fails intellectually when compared to conservatism. I also used to hate conservatism, back when I was more actively reading and writing philosophy, and also using mental and emotional energy on my job.

I was literally blind to the intellectual deficits of my default leftist position, because I wasn’t allocating enough mental energy to process the intellectual sphere of the leftist ideas. Actually it is the conservative, right-wing idea set that is the default, intellectually speaking, but I couldn’t see that. Why not? Simply lack of mental resources. They were all being used for specific artistic and philosophical tasks.

As for emotions, many emotional people are on the left because their emotionality requires that mentality not overly exert itself, because that exertion would lead to a breakdown of liberal left ideation, and liberal left ideation is just a “safe space” protecting narrow efforts. Emotions themselves are not curbed by conservative thinking, but it appears that they are from the perspective of a default leftism because the safe space of leftist mentality has been falsely associated with emotionality as such.

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is liberal/leftism? Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:29 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
It’s striking that humanity and especially the west is going to be brought down by one idea, one set of work, ultimately one person… Marx.

Maybe on the tombstone of humanity it will read, “A species with such promise but which was tricked and betrayed, and ultimately destroyed forever, by one of its own.”

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is liberal/leftism? Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:40 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
The real problem is that most have been doing too many drugs and their brain is fried. No hope for recovery.
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PostSubject: Re: What is liberal/leftism? Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:14 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
"September 2013
Southern Poverty Law Center Denialism on Frankfurt School
It’s an interesting question. Why is it that the left doesn’t want mainstream liberals to know the history of the left?

Even taking it a step further, why try to convince those liberals that conservative discussion of that history is a conspiracy theory?

For a decade, the Southern Poverty Law Center and others on the left have been trying to hide and distract from one of the main origins of both radical academia and media hostility towards capitalism: the ideology of cultural Marxism and Critical Theory that arose from the Frankfurt School.

The SPLC and others dismiss the facts about the German think-tank and its subsequent influence in America as a conspiracy theory. Understanding these attacks is an object lesson in how the left creates self-sustaining mythology by demonizing the people who dare expose their ideology while misdirecting their own followers as to the real story behind liberal ideas.

Organizations on the institutional left such as the Southern Poverty Law Center didn’t just appear out of nowhere or in an ideological vacuum. The SPLC in particular has a specific role of designating organizations as ‘hate groups’, often smearing mainstream conservatism by falsely tying it to tiny, violent and racist organizations.

The SLPC’s designation of what does and doesn’t constitute a hate group has clear foundations in the world of academic political correctness and censoring of speech it considers ‘racist, sexist and homophobic’; all terms that it defines in leftist terms and very selectively. For example, in the wake of last year’s shooting at the headquarters of the Family Research Council, the SLPC went out of their way to double down on it’s claim that the FRC is a ‘hate group.’

Even political correctness, however, didn’t just suddenly pop up out of thin air; it has its basis in a group of academic Marxist philosophers that came together in Germany between World War I and World War II called the Frankfurt School. Their cultural Marxist approach would go on to have a profound influence in the United States after many in the Frankfurt school fled Germany and came to America in the 1930s.

Due to the work of writers like the late Andrew Breitbart, many conservatives now have at least a passing familiarity with the Frankfurt School and their influence. Leftist groups like the Southern Poverty Law Center don’t want liberals to know this history, however, as evidenced by their disinformation campaign that pretends that conservatives who bring up the Frankfurt School are crazy racists who shouldn’t be taken seriously.

Typical of this ‘nothing to see here and you’re a nut-job for even looking’ tactic is a piece from Red Phoenix (described as ‘the newspaper of the American party of Labor’) which defines cultural Marxism as ‘a meaningless phrase used to signal that the writer or speaker has no idea what he or she is talking about’, and then says:

First, to understand cultural Marxism as a phrase is nearly impossible. The phrase itself is meaningless. Next time you find yourself in a discussion where your partner invokes cultural Marxism, ask them to define exactly what that means. Most people don’t even attempt to answer. Those that do give a definition that has nothing to do with Marxism. They may be totally convinced that cultural Marxism is destroying their society, to the point of obsession, yet they stammer and hesitate when asked for a coherent definition.
So, without stammer or hesitation: Cultural Marxism is a branch of Marxism advocated by the Frankfurt School of philosophers such as Erich Fromm, Max Horkheimer and Herbert Marcuse that focuses on cultural factors as agents for social change, as opposed to the traditional Marxist view that focused on economic factors.

That’s a short definition but one of the best summaries of the Frankfurt School and the impact it had on America is Andrew Breitbart’s highly lauded chapter entitled Breakthrough from his book Righteous Indignation. Although it may appear self-serving for this suggestion to come from a friend of Andrew Breitbart’s, nearly anyone who has read the chapter will tell you that Breitbart’s explanation of the Frankfurt School is scholarly, detailed and actually fun to read. Breitbart explains the history and significance of the Frankfurt School, cultural Marxism, critical theory and the impact on contemporary issues such as political correctness and multiculturalism. It’s a must-read for anyone interested in learning more about the influence of these ideas on our national politics.

In 2003, the Southern Poverty Law Center made a preemptive strike against anyone exposing the Frankfurt School in an essay by Bill Berkowitz entitled ‘Cultural Marxism’ Catching On. Although it was published a decade ago, the article has been referenced in many other pieces on the same subject; such is the power of the Southern Poverty Law Center brand on the left.

An in-depth dissection of the article is warranted, since the article is frequently cited by those on the left who are keen to sweep the facts about the Frankfurt School under the rug.

Take the following paragraph from the SPLC article that tosses buzzwords likes racist and extremist in with accusations that anyone looking into the Frankfurt school is anti-Semitic. Berkowitz writes:

Right-wing ideologues, racists and other extremists have jazzed up political correctness and repackaged it — in its most virulent form, as an anti-Semitic theory that identifies Jews in general and several Jewish intellectuals in particular as nefarious, communistic destroyers. These supposed originators of “cultural Marxism” are seen as conspiratorial plotters intent on making Americans feel guilty and thus subverting their Christian culture.
The charge that discussing the Frankfurt School is anti-Semitic gets raised a number of times by those like the Southern Poverty Law Center wishing the bury the truth, so let’s dispense with it as soon as possible. In short, the Jewish heritage of the Frankfurt school is irrelevant. It’s equally true that the major figures at the Frankfurt School were all Jewish and also that some of the major figures exposing the Frankfurt School such as Andrew Breitbart and David Horowitz are also Jewish. Anti-Semitism is a false, collectivist view that has no more place in any legitimate argument than any other form of actual racism trotted out by tribal mentalities. However, in exactly the same way that it would be invalid to criticize the ideas of the Frankfurt philosophers on the basis of them being Jewish, it’s equally invalid to exempt them from any criticism for that reason.

The SPLC throws in the charge of anti-Semitism in its attempt to hide the truth about the Frankfurt School for one reason; it’s exactly the kind of politically correct smear that is the modus operand of the SPLC throughout their work. It’s no small irony that it’s the exactly the technique made possible by the Frankfurt School ideology.

As the Southern Poverty Law Center article continues, they use a number of subtle (and not so subtle) linguistic tricks to create the utterly false notion that the Frankfurt School is some kind of boogeyman invented by conservatives. Take the next paragraph and note that they also continue to push the ‘anti-Semitic’ notion:

In a nutshell, the theory posits that a tiny group of Jewish philosophers who fled Germany in the 1930s and set up shop at Columbia University in New York City devised an unorthodox form of “Marxism” that took aim at American society’s culture, rather than its economic system.
The first alarm bell goes off over the use of the phrase ‘the theory posits’ in a sentence that goes on to factually describe the Frankfurt School philosophers. There’s not one thing in that sentence that is theoretical or in the least bit in factual dispute but describing it as a ‘theory’ gives the Southern Poverty Law Center audience the impression some of it could just be made up by wacked out right-wingers.

Next, note the use of scare quote around the word “Marxism”, which has the same goal of trying to give the reader the impression that maybe those crazy right-wingers are tossing the word Marxist around loosely, as some sort of insult rather than a 100% factual descriptor that’s beyond question.

Just as one example that the members of the Frankfurt school considered themselves Marxists, here’s a video interview with Herbert Marcuse explaining in his own words the group is firmly in the Marxist tradition despite their criticism of some aspect of Karl Marx’s original theories. Please note that the video link is presented here as a quick & easy way to confirm the Frankfurt School’s self-avowed Marxism, not to suggest the SPLC writer did or didn’t see it. The fact that the Frankfurt School is made of up self avowed Marxists is so clearly beyond any dispute that it’s easily confirmed by even the slightest amount of research.

As just one other example, here’s the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy as it defines Critical Theory:

“Critical Theory” in the narrow sense designates several generations of German philosophers and social theorists in the Western European Marxist tradition known as the Frankfurt School.
However, like a wily attorney trying to plant reasonable doubt about the guilt of a confessed suspect, the SPLC wants their readers to believe that ‘Marxist’ is just a wild accusation. Note the repetition of ‘theory’, charges of anti-Semitism and scare quotes in the next paragraph of Southern Poverty Law Center article:

The theory holds that these self-interested Jews — the so-called “Frankfurt School” of philosophers — planned to try to convince mainstream Americans that white ethnic pride is bad, that sexual liberation is good, and that supposedly traditional American values — Christianity, “family values,” and so on — are reactionary and bigoted. With their core values thus subverted, the theory goes, Americans would be quick to sign on to the ideas of the far left.
Once again, the SLPC uses the word theory at the top of a paragraph that is describing undisputed facts.

Marcuse was the philosophical hero of the New Left in the 1960s; at marches in Paris, they carried banners that read “Marx, Mao and Marcuse.” As Andrew Breitbart described Herbert Marcuse in Righteous Indignation:

Marcuse’s mission was to dismantle American society by using diversity and “multiculturalism” as crowbars with which to pry the structure apart, piece by piece. He wanted to set blacks in opposition to whites, set all “victim groups” in opposition to the society at large. Marcuse’s theory of victim groups as the new proletariat, combined with Horkheimer’s critical theory, found an outlet in academia, where it became the basis for the post-structural movement–Gender Studies, LGBT/”Queer” Studies, African-American Studies, Chicano Studies, etc. All of these “Blank Studies” brazenly describe their mission as tearing down traditional Judeo-Christian values and the accepted traditions of Western culture, and placing in their stead a moral relativism that equates all cultures and all philosophies–except for Western civilization, culture, and philosophy, which are “exploitative” and “bad.”
Is there any doubt whatsoever that Americans influenced by Frankfort School ideas on American ‘racism’ and sexual liberation (Marcuse coined the phrase “Make Love, Not War”) quickly ‘signed up’ for the radical anti-war movement of the late 1960s? It’s equally obvious that the various cultural studies programs that sprouted in that era have thrived in academia in the past fifty years and that such programs have had a tremendous political influence, seen in contemporary news stories ranging from the Trayvon Martin shooting to immigration reform.

This is what the Southern Poverty Law Center calls ‘theory’; the very notion of pointing out the existence of political correctness and multiculturalism and pointing out the clear origins. The coup d’ grace is that SPLC actually uses political correctness in their attempt to claim that the Frankfurt School is a fever dream of conservatives; they argue anyone using the term ‘cultural Marxism’ to describe cultural Marxism is a racist lunatic to be dismissed. They write:

The very term, “cultural Marxism,” is clearly intended to conjure up xenophobic anxieties. But can a theory like this, built on the words of long-dead intellectuals who have little discernible relevance to normal Americans’ lives, really fly?
Conservatives know better. The average well-read conservative understands the Frankfurt School much better than the average well-read liberal. Such is the nature of the hermetically sealed media environment that mainstream leftists find themselves in due to groups like Southern Poverty Law Center, utilizing the ideas of the Frankfurt School.

Let the circle be unbroken."

By Lee Stranahan

thepopulist.us/2017/06/this-stor … boyle-why/

“Be clever, Ariadne! …
You have little ears; you have my ears:
Put a clever word in them! —
Must one not first hate oneself, in order to love oneself? …
I am your labyrinth …”. -N

“Cause I’m just a man… flesh and venom.” -Cowboy Troy
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PostSubject: Re: What is liberal/leftism? Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:17 pm Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Well, so far they are doing a good job at avoiding the truth and feeding us bullshit.

The USA is no longer a nation of Americans. It has become a nation of special interests instead of common interests.

I’m getting to the point where I don’t even like the term “liberal” any more.
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PostSubject: Re: What is liberal/leftism? Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:22 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
This is the proper approach to this issue T, as neuroscience, or at least a direct derivative of it.

You are pointing to something massively important. The conflation of emotionalistic thought and emotion.

The Left has this emotionalistic thought, where they don’t feel and also do not think, but use the brain to construct ideas that look to them like emotions, and to which they respond in physiological ways that remind of extreme emotional distress.

Emotions are bypassed. Ive been thoroughly ravaged by this weird mind state as it has usurped the entities of most of my family members and most friends in the Netherlands - they are psychotic zombies that neither think nor fee, but use the vocabulary and gestures that have been derived in the past from emotions.

They are essentially dead, what they do is spread death around them, and it is really very problematic, as the human constitution is tough, and these people are essentially huge cockroaches now.

Because Ive been so close to them, and so tightly surrounded by them for so long, so long that I was fooled into believing that they cared for me, or for anything at all, it is a fucking torment to even gradually wake up to what Ive let them do to me, to how close they’ve gotten to me - so much acid and poison comes out of me just becoming aware of what certain memories really tell me. Many restroom breaks, suffice to say. Contact with such vermin is a very real sickness, and the medicine is really not a soft one, it is a torment to disentangle, as it all literally needs to come out.

It seems like the leftist brain has been coopted by the liver, it runs on bile.
And all affection for any of them that is in my system now must come out of me in the form of bile, shit, stomach acid, as Ive been caring for absolute monsters, using all my genius do delude myself into perceiving them as humans.

This is absolutely the End Time, in the sense that it was alway implicit in the enormous brainpower of the human, and the very difficult taks of using that power constructively for the benefit of oneself through the benefit of ones surroundings (self-valuing logic) is just far too much to ask for a randomly progressing process like evolution.

It was always certain, and this is I suppose how prophecies were conceived, by simple psychological skill, that humanity would have to face its ultimate enemy: its brain. The brain can be used to attain truth, but it is far better at inventing means to avoid truth. That is what leftism is, and the emotionalistic… ectoplasma that manifests as Media and Social Justice, and all these horrors, this flows straight out of the metaphorical gates of hell, which means the abused brain.

Ive seen it proven now that these people aren’t capable of having emotions. They are absolutely dead at heart. And yet they are breeding, my monstrous bile-hearted cousins are having children… meaning, since infants aren’t capable of instantly being as wretched as all grown humans can be, there will be such a terrible struggle of generations to come… maybe a time is coming where children kill their parents and vice versa.

All this to the “purpose” of restoring basic human emotions. Of course non teleologically, just by necessity, by lack of alternative, the emotiolalism that spends itself in the most rotten ways drives carriers to a consequence that confronts them with the basic emotion that discerns death from life: Fear, the emotion that birthed all mass-religions.

Once this is happened, once the now plasmic sub-humanoid substance of the European Left is confronted with a shred of reality, the new time will begin, an age of complete upheaval will begin, wherein new religions are born, and from thereon, new social orders can be forged, through heated battle involving both arms and philosophy.

" The strong do what they can do and the weak accept what they have to accept. "

Thucydides
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PostSubject: Re: What is liberal/leftism? Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:47 am Reply with quote Edit/Delete this post Delete this post View IP address of poster
Fixed Cross wrote:
This is the proper approach to this issue T, as neuroscience, or at least a direct derivative of it.