Its good that Trump moves to cast away as much doubt about that as he can.
I wonder if all the allegations would be proven fully true, would that make him a rapist, or is there a difference between an attempt and a “success”? Not that he’d get confirmed in any such case, but I am just wondering.
If only Ford’s allegation is true, than he is, or rather was an attempted rapist, I suppose.
If the third allegation is true, which it’s in all likelihood not, than he was a serial rapist, or a mass rapist.
And what if Ford is lying, what does that make her?
A Rape Faker?
Or a Rape Liar?
The FBI is in the Democrats pockets and Trump loathes them for that. Should all make for interesting headlines and fake news exposes.
Wendy did you read that in the real news? The fake news I’ve been watching disagrees.
If she has just spoken about it, she is a slanderer. If she wrote about it she is a libelist. Not easy to prosecute in criminal courts. If she does it under oath, then it is more easily prosecuted. Civil courts offer more opportunities, but tough with a case this old, unless she did some very stupid stuff along the way, like tell people she had a trick to keep him off the court, etc.
I don’t think there’s any problem with bringing up old stuff, but unless we have more than word against word, it should be ignored. People with that much authority and it is a kind of moral authority should be screened and called to account for past actions. If he raped her, he didn’t just commit a moral fuckup then. He continued it by never admitting it and never making amends, etc. But that if is very important
This is the same guy who worked for Ken Starr to get Clinton impeached for lying about a blowjob.
Yeah, they should have gotten Clinton for the Glass Speagal act approval, for gutting social services for opening up National land commons to parasitical corporations and for changing sentencing as part of the drug wars which led to unbelievable migrations of poor people into the corrections systems. Consensual sex should be as boring to Americans as it is to Europeans.
lol
I’d align with the OP in that it would make her the moral equivalent of a rapist. I’m for laws that make it so anyway. There’s nothing easier these days than ruining a mans life with a lie that plays to the malcontent of the self-ignorant masses.
If Ford is lying, she is damn good at it.
Oh, the fake news or (M)MSM as it is called is also in the democrats pockets…duh. There are many democrat holdovers working in the CIA and FBI who are corrupting its nature to be fair and seek justice.
Yes, all employees of consenting age should give oral sex at work, hey, it’s what the boss likes his/her employees to do while on the clock.
You just point out where I said people should give oral sex - which would mean a lack of consent. Make up some stuff, if you need to. I don’t think whatever the current candidate for SC is, Trump’s candidate, should be stopped just on word against word. But you keep reacting in a knee jerk way to whatever you think benefits your team. That makes for a great debate and discussion. Whack a mole as thinking.
Let’s see you have the guts to join Unwrong’s thread on rape. Will you seemingly support feminism by questioning some of Unwrong’s ideas or will you go along with a man who blames rapes on women, period. Like, the men had no option but to rape her. Is it possible for you to actually respond in some way that isn’t just a party line, have some nuance?
They consented…but my point was that they were performing consensual oral sex at work which was my problem with Bill Clinton getting his blow jobs in the oval office while he was supposed to be acting as president, not some boyish horndog. Work places are for work, not consensual sex.
@Karpel
If you’re caught falsely accusing someone of a crime in court, you should receive whatever penalty they would’ve received had they been convicted, if they would’ve received 10-15 years for rape, that’s what you should receive.
If you’re caught falsely accusing someone of a crime on social media, your life should be socioeconomically destroyed, just like you tried to socioeconomically destroy theirs.
I think people should have the right to bring up whatever they want to bring up.
However, whether it’s wroth publicly addressing, depends on who, what, where and so on.
And how certain, you are, and how much evidence, you have.
If you’re certain someone raped you a few days, weeks or months ago, and you have some evidence, I think it’s worth bringing it up.
However, if you’re uncertain someone sexually harassed you a few decades ago when you were both drunken teenagers at a party during a sex game, and you have no evidence, than it’s a complete waste of time, not to mention unnecessarily damaging to the accused and their family, and you’re an asshole for even bringing it up.
And I mean girls whip out their tits in public all the time, so who really cares?
Ford has absolutely no evidence whatsoever, but I guess at least she’s accusing him of a serious crime and claims to be certain it was him, but the second accuser can’t even give us that.
She’s an idiot.
And as for the third accuser, not only does she not have any evidence either, but worse, what she’s accusing Kavanaugh and co of, him and his buddies throwing dozens of parties where they conspired to drug and gang rape dozens of girls, is incredibly unlikely to have occurred, because surely some of those girls would’ve came forward then and/or dozens by now.
It’s absurd, and it goes to show you how ready, willing and able many women are to make shit up and join the rape bandwagon, receive their 5 seconds of fame and feel like they’re part of history, because there’s rarely any consequences for such abhorrent behavior.
The third accuser should be publicly shamed for making such outrageous, damaging and in all likelihood false accusations up, to discourage others from following suit.
This’s why dozens of women making accusations, one after the other, doesn’t necessarily make the accused any less credible, because in our society, while there are occasionally consequences for making allegations, like death threats, more often than not there aren’t any, and there’s far more incentives, all the attention, sympathy and money we unthinkingly shower upon unconfirmed victims, and increasingly women are taking note there’ll be few if any consequences and many incentives, so all the more reason we need to judge each allegation on a case by case basis in light of evidence.
I mean who really suffers at the end of the day in all this, regardless if it’s never proven or even if they’re exonerated in court?
It’s the accused who’s lives are ruined over these things, never the accuser.
And unless someone has been given a fair trial (and even then), there are no facts.
While people are entitled to have an opinion about whether x person did x thing, unless they were there, or there’s been a public confession, if they claim they know for a fact x person committed x crime, they’re an idiot.
And perhaps someone shouldn’t be able to lose important things, like their job, over pure speculation.
I would go further, in some cases they should be publicly shamed for even bringing it up.
Depends on what it is, if it can be proven they committed rape, and they’re running for high office, of course they shouldn’t get in, but if it’s a few cases of sexual harassment at parties decades ago, we should overlook them, because we can’t expect people to be perfect, everyone on earth has some dirt on them.
If you’re looking for someone absolutely scrupulous to be a politician, you’re gonna be looking for a real, real…real long time.
Laughs most politicians are scumbags anyway, I mean what are we even talking about here?
Rape is the least of their crimes, try smuggling billions of dollars worth of drugs, or child sex slavery, or war crimes, and on and on, stealing billions of dollars in tax, covering up corporate crimes that’ve cost us billions, or annihilated entire ecosystems.
That is in part why this whole thing is kind of ridiculous, I mean we’re talking about a rape here no one can prove, when there’re much, much…much bigger fish to fry.
This’s a distraction from real issues, but then the very fabric of our society is held together by distraction, it’s the secret ingredient that makes it all work, the real glue that holds this ball of shit together.
We know if people started taking a good, hard look at what’s going on by the millions, blood would be running in the streets.
And of course politicians know this too, they know it all too well, they’ve been exploiting it for millennia.
You win the masses over with bread in circuses, not with logic and facts, you win by flinging as much feces at your opponent as humanly possible.
And now I fear we’re hitting a new low here.
Instead of proving who’s policies are better for the country, they’re going be competing over who can make the most baseless (rape) allegations up.
It’s absolutely atrocious, the state of politics today, a complete farce.
Instead of having a polite, half respectful, civilized, dignified, half openminded and rational debate/discussion on the issues, politicians are rape bombing each other.
I mean that’s it, surely we’re fucked now.
And you think they even give a fuck about rape?
They don’t, dozens of democrats, including his high-ness Bill ‘I smoked but I did not inhale, we had sex but I did not cum’ Clinton has been accused of rape by dozens of women, which of course he denied, like he has denied everything he has been accused and later admitted to after evidence had been found.
No this is about politics, it’s always, always…always about politics, because politics is business, and business is money, and money is power.
They don’t give a fuck about women’s rights, or rape.
This is about distracting us, and winning at all costs, determining which party gets to economically and socially sodomize us all for the next 4 years.
Like you’ve said in many others posts you’ve made, on the surface this is about human rights, or men’s vs women’s rights, tribal allegiances, blacks vs whites, Christians vs Muslims and so on, meanwhile the lower classes are getting shafted no matter who’s in charge.
White male privilege my ass, the only real privilege that exists, is the people born into the overclass.
Divide and conquer, this’s a 4000 year old play book they’re following, the only thing new is the war is also being waged online, on social media.
Nothing all that new about accusing the opposition of sex crimes either, I mean Rome transitioned from a monarchy to a republic on the basis of a single sex allegation, or at least that is what we’re told to believe, the rape of the noblewoman Luctretia by a Roman king, perhaps that too was a false allegation, perhaps the noblemen knew it was and were conspiring, concocting a false rape flag, as a pretext in order to justify empowering themselves and establishing a representative timocracy and removing the king.
We will keep repeating history until we get it right…but we won’t, while humanity can at times make some improvements, more often than not we take 3 steps backwards to take 1 step forwards.
Progress isn’t guaranteed, if anything stagnation or regression is.
And I mean what happened to the democrats, what happened to: it’s the economy, stupid?
Now they’re more puritanically concerned with our sex lives than the republicans ever were, just in different ways
I wholeheartedly concur.
Mmm…I think she is lying…or exaggerating, and she’s not that good.
That looked like fake crying to me.
Not a single tear was visibly shed behind those preposterously thick and unstylish granny glasses, no red eye/face, no sniffling, no pause to catch her breath, joking and laughing only seconds after ‘crying’, the sad, crackly lil girl voice she put on, for sympathy…
She’s a psychologist after all, and she had plenty of time to rehearse.
Of course while Kavanaugh mayn’t be telling the whole truth and nothing but…at least his emotions were undeniably authentic.
But…no one but her, Kavanaugh and, perhaps the people who know them intimately will ever know for sure, unless a confession is made, or someone unexpectedly slips up big time, which at this point seems unlikely, which makes this whole fiasco, just that, a total waste of time and tax.
“She’s a psychologist after all, and she had plenty of time to rehearse.”
Granted.
I haven’t watched the whole thing on either side, any way I turn it the thing is obscene. Trump, Bannon, Putin, Matthis, Lavrov, these are guys I like to listen to but most pubic showings are just like watching an inferior life form plot its impotent course.
Ive been reading about the inconsistencies, and even though I found these not necessarily troublesome, what that time spent on the case drove home to me was the cold blooded strategy of sitting on that accusation for decades and then bringing it out right when it causes the most effect. If she has truly been defined as a victim by that moment, then she has been relentlessly planning this as revenge. As I say this I see that other things aren’t adding up – yes, what doesn’t add up is what has been said about her motivation for bringing this out. And that is the only thing in which the real event echoes.
This is the most condescending thing ever, so lets not repeat it, but was she perhaps in love with him? Was that why she was at a gathering that wasn’t really a party where he was one of a small number of people she cant exactly remember, and how she ended up in a bedroom with him? As a detective I would pursue this thread with some vigour, because why the hell else does a 15 year old girl go to a party at night but to get into some exciting stuff with an older boy? But yeah I wouldn’t throw this out there through the mouth of a partisan interrogator, many undecided females would take offence.
That is of course possible. It is also possible that seeing that someone who did what she alleges he did put in a position to weigh in on all sorts of moral positions that will affect the whole country might have been the last straw, or the possibility where she felt she had an obligation to do something even if she would have preferred not to think about it for herself or something else. People on one team attibute X as the clear motive. People on the other team attribute Y as the clear motive. Neither group knows. Fuck, it could just be revenge, but if it’s true, revenge could be a cool motivation. I will wait to talk about this until I can do the most damage. We just don’t know. The teams were switched on Clinton, generally. Now this team knows why this issue is coming up, it’s about morals, not the competitive aspects of politics. Now the other teams KNOWS that it is a character and ethical issue and that’s why STarr and…etc. are pursuing this. Probabaly the people involved don’t even know their own motivations very well. It is easy to convince yourself what your motivations are and be wrong. Or, at least, most people I meet think they know their motivations, but I see people always choosing the most convenient motivation. If many people don’t even (want to look at or) know their own motivations, it isn’t easy for other people to say ‘Oh, his motivation is X.’ Unless you have evidence. I don’t think her motivations matter. If it can be corroborated somehow, then it should weigh in, depending on the strength of the evidence and corroboration. If it can’t, it should be ignored.