Yes, that is precisely my point. But if we look at your behavior, we see you treating his prioritization of fun as problematic AND YOU DO THIS BY SHOWING how it could be problematic. You use an argument which is a kind of appeal to the what most people would think are horrible consequences - in other words an appeal to what most people think is EVIL and this is ironic given you are a nihilist. But more importantly, you never show precisely how YOUR POSITION and behavior might lead to bad or evil consequences.
So you (as a rule!) make a disclaimer about yours, but you get into specific demonstrations and arguments about ALL OTHER POSITIONS you encounter. IOW you treat other people’s priorities differently, often using charged specific examples of the bad consequences they might or will lead to. You never show how your prioritization might lead to specific bad consequences. You treat your values very differently from other people’s values. All the while claiming you have no idea are so conflicted and fragmented. And yet the same values, for example compromise, negotiation and moderation keep coming up. Not others, despite your fragmentation. And demonstrate what bad consequences they might lead to.
A pro forma abstract disclaimer is not the same as what you did with fun, and with other people’s priorities. SAying: Of course I might be wrong. Of course my ideas are affected by Dasein. is not the same treatment you give to other ideas.
You have a sense of The Good, it’s just, like many objectivists, consider it open to revision. A fragmented person does not keep repeating the same goods. A fragmented person would see the potential problems of negotiation and compromise also. And so on. A nihilist does not think there is a good, or something we ought to do. A nihilist does not have the ‘I think this is good’ contraption. But you do. A nihilist does not say, I think this is good, but it’s a contraption. The nihilist does not think this is good and that is bad. The nihilist obviously will have preferences, unless he or she is extremely depressed. But not notions of the good with disclaimers. You never seem to notice this contradiction between your behavior and your philosophy, even when it is pointed out using different approaches by different posters.
So then why do you do this with his fun prioritization as if it is obvious that this fun priortization could lead to bad consequences.
I don’t take any fucking leap. I do not add on all the problematic tasks and self-relations you add on. As explained elsewhere.
No, sorry, you are out in the clouds. I always refer to specific actions on your part, ones that are easy to document and find, since they are posted here. Specific interpersonal acts. At best most of your examples are universal (say, abortion) not dealing with specific cases and having nothing to do with any of us here. At worst you speak in the most abstract terms in paragraphs you have rewritten thousands of times.
Why don’t you actually come down to earth, tell us about a specific situation in your life where you encountered conflicting goods. Not in the newspaper, not out of your head, not with Trump and his opponents, but with you actually involved. I can’t remember you actually presenting a real life example, and yet you have the nerve to constantly accuse others of being abstract and not doing this. I know. I have and yet you keep asking me to do this as if I haven’t.
As I see it, this is just one more “general description” assessment.
which, if it were true, would be the same as what you do as a rule. But it is not true since it had to do with a specific act, you critique of his fun idea, in a specific post. IOW a single example of a real life intereraction between you are another perosn here.
You are a living person in interaction with other people, saying specific things, making specific arguments. Your acts and statements and judgements can be looked at in relation to your nihilism, for example, and be found wanting. You react to these criticisms, often, as if they are failures to demonstrate objective morals. That is confused. You can have been hypocritical, made poor arguments, judged in ways that are not consistent with your nihilism, not responded to points made etc.
And all I can do here is to note yet again how abstract this assessment is.
Sure, but I gave a specific example as described above. I could give others from interactions with me or Phyllo etc. But when you respond to these, and generally you do not, you simply restate your position, you call them abstract, when in fact they are much more concrete than your abortion issue.
Invite us inside your head the next time you encounter someone who challenges one of your own value judgments. Or pick something from the news. Either way note for us how you engage challenges as a “pragmatist”. Just how fractured and fragmented are you then? Just how comforted and consoled are you with the leap that you finally make? And how is this all less embedded in the manner in which I construe the meaning of dasein here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=176529
I’ve done this. I wrote a specific case where I defended another man in a group. I described the conflicting values and how I coming from my preferences tried to affect change. It made absolutely no difference to you. You started talking about my leaps not long after that. At first somewhat dismissively, then it seems with almost an apology. But it did not make the slightest difference. SO STOP ASKING ME TO DO THIS. I did this, with a concrete situation, the day after it happened in my life. And stop telling me I make leaps. I make less leaps than you do. I do not make the leap that I somehow must come up with a rational argument that is also objectively true to convince the world of what the good is, if this is possible. I do notmake the leap that I can only act in the world in a wide set of contexts if I know what I ought to do. I do not make the leap that your entire project (which your own nihilism should make seem most likely futile) is something I must carry out.
You seem to think having wants and feeling things that lead to actions and choices requires leaps. Dogs manage without philosophies and leaps. Now, sure, I sometimes feel torn, sometimes I am confused, but it is only through abstract thinking that one, as a rule, cannot takes steps to make things more like one wants. To try at least. For you it is a leap, some mental contraption. But animals, lacking our vast array of mental gadgetry, manage to do this. Your hole is due to an excess of contraptions, not a lack of them. And just to repeat: of course, I get confused. Of course I can feel conflicted both about means and goals. But unlike you I do not think I must solve enormous epistemological and universal moral behavior issues to live my life. You have nearly killed the animal in you with all your contraptions.
Without this strangely moral looking huge project, I handle things much more as you like handle your shopping. I try to achieve what I want for myself and those I care about and for what I care about.
Note to others:
What am I missing here? To admit that my argument is hypocritical would seem to suggest there is an argument that can be made by me about conflicting goods. An argument which I then refuse to honor.
To admit that my argument is fallacious would seem to suggest that I am aware of an optimal rational truth here — yet continue to argue for something that is clearly out of sync with it.
Or is he suggesting something else instead?
Amazing. Imabiguous: One can be hypocritical by acting in contradiction with one’s philosophy. You often say that objectivist run from you because you might upset the comfort and consolation offered by their objectivism. Look at what you wrote above. In the category of hypocrisy it did not, oddly, occur to you that hypocrisy is OFTEN, IN FACT USUALLY, brought up when someone’s behavior does not align with their philosophy. While expressing your incredulity you did not even consider this kind of hypocrisy. And this in a context where I was criticizing a specific communicative act in relation to Serendipper.
Is it possible that for emotional reasons you avoid really noticing what I am saying. You often criticize the objectivists by saying that they run from you for emotional reasons. Well, I think that has to be the case here with you. I know you will say, yes, this is possible. But can you actually look at and see what you are running from, why you often to not notice things? Why you keep asking for me to give a concrete example in the world of conflicting goods what I do. Even though I have done this. You say below that you honestly do not understand. I believe you. I don’t think you are fucking with me. I think there are things you do not want to look at. I don’t know for sure this is based on fear. That seems most likley. But I do know that as a rule you just do not notice certain things.
In any event, let’s intertwine the discussion here in an actual existential context.
Cite some actual instances of this relating to things that I post here at ILP. I am honestly unsure about the point that you are making.
I believe you. You cannot see what might be problematic even if Phyllo and I place specific concrete examples right in front of you. I did it again in this post. I have done this many times. Most of the time you are not willing to even look at your own behavior. I mention it and you repeat your general position on dasein conflicting values, without ever responding to the critique of specfiic instances of your behavior that are hypocritical int he context of your nihilism. Other times when a specific act is pointed out you say that you have also said your conclusions are existential contraptions. But when it is pointed out that you relate differently to the existential contraptions of others, you do not respond or repeat your general position. When you conclude that something is good, you cannot seem to notice that you are no longer a nihilist, since for you an objectivist is only someone who believes their values are 100% correct. But this is not the case. A nihilist cannot draw a conclusion about the good, even a tentative one. He does no believe the good exists. And this was pointed out as a specific instance, an act in your posting. A down to earth example, first pointed out by Phyllo, where you obviously and clearly think that comprimise and negotiation are good. When it is pointed out this is a contradiction, you say that it may be a contraption on your part. Fine, but you are no longer a nihilist if you draw conclusions about what is good. You just open to revision. Scientists are objectivists about scientific knowledge, but they consider ALL conclusions open to revision, it is part and parcel with scientific epistemology.
And yes, the above includes abstract language, but I am also referring to specific concrete cases involved your interaction with specific people here, as I did in the first example at the beginning of this post. I HAVE ALSO DONE WHAT SINCE DOING IT YOU HAVE CONTINUED TO ASK ME TO DO OVER AND OVER given a specific example of how I navigate the world of conflicting goods.
YET OVER AND AND OVER YOU ASK ME TO DO THIS as if I haven’t.
YET OVER AND OVER YOU ACCUSE ME OF BEING ABSTRACT when over and over I build posts around specific concrete examples involving you here interacting with other people, which is much more concrete than your abortion issue.
I think the fascination with all this and I’ll have to check with Phyllo for his take
is that you are obviously intelligent but cannot see the nose on your face even when I hold up a mirror.
I shouldn’t be surprised. But I am.