2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Hi gib,

…You’ve got to know when to hold ‘em
Know when to fold ‘em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you’re sittin’ at the table
There’ll be time enough for countin’
When the dealin’s done

Every gambler knows
That the secret to survivin’
Is knowin’ what to throw away
And knowin’ what to keep
'Cause every hand’s a winner
And every hand’s a loser
And the best that you can hope for is to die
in your sleep…
The Gambler

On that note, this will be my last post in here to you at least for some time. I did not want to simply ignore your latest post to me altogether. Perhaps sometime after your magical day, I shall return.

My main reason for being in here was to help you a bit, giving you some feedback, and trying to persuade you that going to AA meetings could ALSO be beneficial to you along with others things which you have decided to do after the magical date of July 1st.

I do not believe that we can go any further than we have. I think that to do so would simply be a study in redundancy at least on my side.

I have found a hyperlink which I think is pretty unbiased insofar as the pros and the cons and the in-betweens go of AA. Anyway, the bottom line here is that you do what you feel best serves you but I would consider all that the hyperlink presents.

scientificamerican.com/arti … mous-work/

The below is also an interesting article and it speaks to me (but that is just me). I think that it is a good thing to be reminded that we are not always seeing the other guy’s or girls point of view (as perhaps I was not so much seeing in your view of AA), that we (universally speaking) are not responding in a way that is more balanced and mutually beneficial to both sides. It is a really good read. I think that for the most part we realize these things but it is good to be reminded of them.

The hyperlink is in a way in response to what you wrote here:

psychologytoday.com/us/blog … d-yourself

So, I do wish you well, gib, and come July 1st, I hope that you will be doing everything in your power to work on conquering and transcending your addictions. It is a process and I think that you ARE up to the task.

Carpe Diem but not all at once nor too tightly.

Thanks for the links, Arc. I will probably read them on the weekend.

If that’s it for now, it was a pleasure troll–er, talking with you. And yes, I … sigh … did learn a thing or two from you (even if I don’t want to admit it ). In fact, you caused me to have a few more conversations with my son about my alcoholism. I asked him what he doesn’t like about it most. He said: “I don’t like when you stop at the liquor store.” “Why’s that?” I asked. “Because,” he said, “it takes to long.” I had to laugh. “You mean, it takes time out of your busy schedule?” “Yeah,” he said, “I wanna get home to play Roblox on my iPad.”

^ Well, I’m glad that’s the worst way my alcoholism is affecting him. And I hope this adds some perspective. If that’s the worst thing about my alcoholism from my son’s point of view, I don’t think they’re suffering that much. I do realize the suffering might come later… or even if it doesn’t, that my alcoholism is holding me back from being the best father I could be.

Also, there’s a few things I regret saying to you in all the foregoing (was either immature or too rude even for my tastes). For example, this:

#1 was actually the only one that made me laugh. The rest I know about, but still #5 remains the real challenge. Numbers 2 to 4 seem in my control though I don’t always have the opportunity to do them. Then I actually read through #1. I said “…oh,” and stopped laughing.

Anyway, maybe if there’s one thing I can say before wrapping up this exchange, it’s that my challenge with the drugs and alcohol has never really been about resisting urges. It’s about the excuses I give myself (it’s an ADD thing). That’s why my focus is on my thoughts and my values (reprogramming them) rather than will power (in which case I probably would need extra help). Whenever I make a solid decision to quit or abstain from drugs/alcohol, it has always stuck. Every one of my 2 month stints has been a success. Quitting smoking has been a success (though I fell off the horse once with that). And none of these come along with urges or hankerings. My resolve pretty much stomps that out. I would even go to Moxie’s on my usual Friday afternoons and Wednesday week nights on my no-alcohol stints and order something virgin plus an appi. The waitresses there are always very impressed. And you know what? It’s not even a challenge. I don’t feel I have to fight any internal urges to order a drink when I’m there. These two month stints mean something to me; the whole 5 year plan means something to me; ← It’s that which stomps out the excuses. The fact that I want it. I don’t want to quit all drugs and alcohol before July 1–which is why the excuse to just wait 'til July 1 so easily gets in there. And I’m OK with that, I’m not worried, because I know the door to all excuses will be closed and bolted tight by this plan once it comes to fruition on July 1.

So again, thanks Arc for your challenges and your contrarian personality; I know I’m an asshole who doesn’t mind being rude, but it doesn’t go unappreciated (plus it’s somewhat of an act). So I’ll talk to you after July 1 if you decide to pop in.

PS - I’m glad you think of this as “magic”. Means I will have performed a miracle on July 1. ← How much more awesome can you get!!!

July 1 is finally at the door step. I’m thinking of opting out of this. Maybe do it July 1 2019 instead… just kidding. Gonna happen tomorrow.

Last night was my last binge drinking night. Spent it mostly at the strip club. Sat down and had a drink with a really nice (and sexy) exotic dancer. She showed me their list of non-alcoholic drinks, inviting me to come back and watch her perform next weekend. I told her I’d have my kids but I’ll definitely come back some time. And I mean it! I don’t want to stop going out, doing all the things I’d normally do (which is not limited to the strippers). Maybe not as often, but I don’t want to stay cooped up at home every evening. In fact, I owe it to myself to go out. The point of this whole exercise is to learn to do the things I would normally do using booz and other drugs as a crutch. I want to be able to flirt with these strippers girls without the booz and caffeine. So I gotta go out at least once in a while.

I bought snacks for the cabby who drove me home. I gave him a choice between cheesies, a chocolate bar, and these BBQ flavored roasted bread crumbs. He took the bread crumbs.

I’ve already paid for the Dale Carnegie course (almost $2,000!!! ). Haven’t booked an appointment with a therapist yet, but I’ll do that after the weekend. It’s a long weekend. Canada Day! And I’m taking all of next week off, spending it with my kids.

Today I just rested up. Having some pizza now. Did a bit of caffeine earlier. Smoked some cannabinoids. Went for a bike ride. Will have a couple drinks tonight, then go to bed. I’m not really all that excited about tomorrow. Not really scared or happy or anything. I think it’s going to feel like an ordinary day. But I will be able to change my thinking on a whole bunch of things. For the first time, I’m going to be able to say “I am drug and alcohol free” and believe it. This is bound to change something about my self-image. And I think it’s going to free me up psychologically to want to pursue a whole bunch of things that are good for me.

As for ILP, I really don’t know how often I’ll be back here. I usually sign in once a day to check if anyone’s responded to my posts or PMed me, and I’ll probably still do that, but as far as participating in discussions, it will probably be like I disappeared off the face of the planet. The only exceptions to this is my Rick and Morty thread (which is still not done, but I’m almost there) and maybe a few PMs to some of you. But beyond that, I’m usually not motivated to post without a bit of caffeine. HOWEVER, if I succeed in finding other ways besides the drugs to find that kind of extroverted talking/thinking energy, that could change. That would be in the long run though. In the short run, my presence here will be very minimal.

I’ll poke my head in here one more time tomorrow–just to shove it your faces that I did it–and then I’ll be done with this thread. Who knows, though. I may want to report on my progress or experiences, or just some relevant thoughts, but I wouldn’t count on it.

Anyway my American friends across the boarder, please remember to pay tribute to Canada Day tomorrow. I’ll be very upset if you don’t.

Well I for one will be sad to go, and I can only say, do not make a severe cut of getting away, people leave unnoticeably, then pop in, bit really, I feel your pain and I guess can honestly say that I’ve been through it and know the problema of dependency dependency withdrawal. I never. could, so I kind of used am iron will method of using limits beyond which I can’t go beyond.

But of You must be alone while in sobriety, please except my wish of good. luck with it.

Good luck on this journey Gib… I couldn’t do it, so I wish you well.

Will DM you later… oh, and happy Canada Day.

…and I agree with Meno… try not to be a stranger ; )

Praise be to the leafs up North on their day of rapturous victory! Ah, now on this first of July your mine to mess with so don’t bounce just yet, we have astral progress to make Mr.

Thanks all for your support.

Like I said, I always pop in here to check responses and PMs, so if ever you wanna keep in contact with me, PMs are always an option.

But anyway, had me a bike ride this morning. Could have really used a cup of coffee but that’s not happening anymore. I’m feeling OK about this. No big hype going on in my mind. I thought maybe as soon as July 1 hits, it will suddenly hit me like a sack of bricks: no more drugs for the rest of your life! But no, nothing’s hit me… yet.

Now that, Wendy, is what I call a tribute! Thanks!

I’ll definitely be contacting you about astral projection, but first… need sleep.

gib,

What would be the main purpose behind your trying to astral project? Where does it bring you ~~ I mean insofar as keeping you grounded and focused on reality ~~ which is a good place for you to be now, no?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

Where is the reality there?!

I suppose that it might give you that awesome feeling and on some level allow you to believe that you are awesome which is kind of the holy grail which you are seeking. We can talk ourselves into believing that anything is real if we need it deeply enough.
But do you not think that this is somewhat what you need to detach from?

Anyway, I wish you one day at a time, or one step at a time on your journey. Pack Light!

Hey Gib!

So I’m a recovering addict. It’s fun and awesome but it hurts like a bitch at first. May I suggest hitting up some AA meetings? They are free as opposed to therapists and such. If nothing else to see other poor basterds who also went through abstinence, which is no bed of roses.

No bed of roses at all.

Good luck! And maybe be kind to yourself at least at first. Why tempt yourself with drug related activities? You are doing this for YOU!

Let me know if you want any contact with me. I’ve been sober for going on 2 years now and have some useful tips.

And I do must tell you, having known many alcoholics, that your child has suffered more than that interrogation could ever reveal. But it is yourself you hurt the most. Remember that.

I don’t envy you the next 3 months…

You might be annoyed at what I just wrote. I just want you to know that if you ever feel helpless regarding your struggle to quit drugs, I can help.

It’s like a reverse deal with the devil: you give me everything you ever wanted and I give you your soul. Lol that’s grandiloquent. I am afflicted by grandiloquence, don’t let it get in the way of help you need.

I should also say that I don’t approach addicts unless they have verbaly stated a desire to quit drzzugs.

Cheers!

And finally, any help I can give you can find in AA or, if you’re too much of a snob for the whole greater power thing or whatever, which I was, and have a penny to spend, go to a rehab that uses the Minnesota method.

Yes dog. It’s that bad. Maybe I’m wrong, but if you ever find yourself experiencing a lot of pain in this journey and the idea comes to you that drugs would kill that pain, you are like me.

Thanks Pedro (and Mr. E. Warrior) for keeping this thread alive. I was going to post here a few days ago with pics of my tattoo. Yes, I got it! But it needs touch ups, and I’m going to get those touch ups early in September. So at the last minute, I decided to hold off until then. But it’s there.

The first 3 or 4 days were relatively brutal. I was depressed for the first week. ← That was mainly the caffeine withdrawal (felt like I was made of bricks). But now (and you’re not gonna believe me) I feel great. Not that I’m always great. Last week I was a bit depressed. Life things. People getting me down. People lifting me up.

Though I appreciate your support and every word (so don’t take this the wrong way), I’m finding this really easy. A friend of mine called me an anomaly the other day. She couldn’t believe I continue to go to the bars and not have the urge to drink. I told her it was never about the urges with me, it was stubbornness.

The therapist I need. I need her for more than just a support to stay off drugs, but to help me achieve so many of my other goals. I might visit an AA meeting once or twice in the future, but proly not to go on a regular basis. It ain’t my style. It’d be interesting to see what it’s like, to hear their stories, to lead them.

Nobody believes me when I tell them this is easy, that it’s not a struggle to stay off the drugs. I try to explain that it’s all in my methodology–that I chose a 5 year path of self-reprogramming rather than an immediate commitment to rehab or a support group like AA–not that I discourage those avenues, but that I’ve discovered (and proven so far) a different path. No one really seems to understand tho–it seems to defy their understanding of what it is to be an addict.

But anyways, feel free to contribute some of your stories, advice, or thoughts here in this thread. I would be more than happy to read them.

No problem. Be careful with this though “to lead them.”

They’ve seen and tried every trick in the book.

In time, you will learn to read my sense of humor.

No, I won’t. Not until you are sober, otherwise why bother? I know it all by heart.

For your entretainment, my interpretation of the progression of a recovering addict.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJ9rUzIMcZQ[/youtube]

???

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04854XqcfCY[/youtube]

gib,

.

Be careful of that transference, gib. It kind of already seems that you are becoming a tad too attached to her…a mother figure but I may be wrong here.

How can one person help you to achieve so many of your other goals?
I wonder if I might be wrong in figuring that in focusing on that one important goal all the others could eventually fall into place and you could succeed at them.

You had said a while back after July 1st that you did not want anyone posting in here ~ that anything anyone had to say could be said in PM to you. I am glad that you changed your mind. It is a good thing to have a concert of many voices and not to become dependent on any one of them.

I see that you are sticking to your guns in this regard. Remember that a therapist is only a therapist and not actually your God so it might be very healthy and fruitful to attend AA meetings at least once in a while. You have nothing to lose, do you, except whatever it may be that is keeping you from attending them sometimes.

You said to Pedro I Rengel in response to his "Be careful with this though “to lead them.”

There is a lot of truth, gib, which we supposedly say in jest or according to one’s sense of humor. We like to camouflage that truth.

Are you quite sure that you do not See Things in that way ~ in other words “to lead them”? I would think that putting one’s self within the AA environment would be or could be a great learning experience about what makes you tick and how you got to the place where you are. You are all individuals and unique in your ways but alcoholics do have some things in common.

I am going to go out on a limb here and allow you to shoot me down but my intuition is that you are still not serious about becoming and staying sober but my intuition has been known to be faulty and in this case I would happily hope that it is.

I wonder how many alcoholics trying to be sober actually hang out in bars. I just do not get that. I think that one’s sobriety needs to be most important - much more important than the woman bartender or is it just a woman who hangs out there and thinks that you are cute (as you once related). Would you trade your sobriety for a woman’s comforting opinion of you?

“Without birth and death, and without the perpetual transmutation of all the forms of life, the world would be static, rhythm-less, undancing, mummified.” – Alan Watts.

Man, you must be the queen of reading too much into things. I’ve seen her twice so far. You should know I have way more goals than just staying sober. Is it really that inconceivable to you that a man could have more goals than just staying sober and relies on a therapist to help him see those goals through? ← Automatically that’s attachment???

Possibly… but I’m not counting on that.

I think for astral projection, that for sure isn’t going to just fall into my lap without at least adding meditation practices to my toolkit. Tons of people exist who have never touch a drop of alcohol or snorted any kind of drug and haven’t magically been swept up by an AP experience (if anything, it’s the other way around).

(And my therapist specifically is trained in meditative exercises, hypnosis, and altered states of consciousness… which is why I chose her.)

What I said was that after July 1 I’d probably not post here anymore (because I usually like to post when I’m on caffeine), but I never said I didn’t want anyone posting in this thread. I wouldn’t say something like that… ever… except maybe to you. And it wasn’t this thread specifically, but ILP in general. What I said about the PMs was that I’d probably PM a few people just to let them know where I’m at. I also said I’d continue to post on threads that were ongoing projects (like my Rick and Morty thread… although I barely find the time for that), and that I’d continue to respond to posts directed at me (usually, sometimes). I’m not ignoring people, just hard to muster the motivation without some kind of stimulant like caffeine.

None of this is a commitment though… if I ever succeed in my goal of feeling caffeinated on the natch (and I have the time), of course I’ll post here more often!

So you think I will lead them one day?! WOW!!! And I thought you had no faith in me!

You are relentless, Arc.

If I went to AA on a casual basis… just once in a while… you would never be satisfied.

Come on, Arc. I’ve got way more self-respect than that. No one believes me when I say I can go to the bar and not have the urge to drink. It’s like I’ve got supernatural powers or something. The bartenders there (guys and girls) know that I don’t drink, and I doubt even if I had the urge to drink and I caved one day, asking for a drink, that they wouldn’t at least ask me: “Are you sure?” I go out because I don’t want to give up all the other pleasures of life, the pleasures I used to enjoy while getting drunk. My intention really is to walk that fine line between the unhealthy pleasures in life and the healthy pleasures. I’m not giving up a single once of the latter. It beats being cooped up at home. I get bored. I bring my work to the bar (yes, I’m that nerdy!). I setup my laptop right at the bar and do work while drinking a virgin Caesar and an appetizer. There’s just something more stimulating about being in a public place and getting to chat a bit with the bartenders (the cute ones especially). I’m reeeally not worried about risking my sobriety. You have to be me to understand. I’m really not at risk. If I were you, I wouldn’t waste brain cells trying to comprehend it. Better off not believing me.

" and altered states of consciousness… which is why I chose her.)"

Ok. But I warn you. No astral projection will ever be more powerful than drugs.

Seeking altered states of consciousness is obviously what addicts are about. The difference between a using addict and a recovering addict is honesty in answering: why? And: what have been the consequences?

In most. Ok no that’s a lie. In all cases the original why included because it’s fun. In all cases that stops being the case well before one decides one wants to quit drugs.

How fun has your life been the last very many years? Some don’t say fun, they say because I like it. How much have you liked your life the last very many years?

Tough questions maybe. But not more tough than what an addict has to do to secure his or her dose.