Which makes you an objectivist.
[/quote]
I would say instead that here you are putting forward a definition of what an objectivist is and I am saying that you behave like an objectivist. It is how you relate to people, what you convey.
I see you assert this. Here’s the problem. Let’s imagine a racist saying ‘I would be a fool to think nothing could change my mind about niggers. Right now I do function as if they cause more problems than I do and are bad. Which will continue to include my sense of what is motivating niggers, until such time as another existential contraption seems better to me. The truth is I doubt that will ever happen, but given my philosophy I must consider it possible.’ I would call that person a racist.
Your judgments and assessments of objectivists - including both implicit and explicit communication - are not as offensive to me, but the pattern is the same.
I think there is much more room for 1) not understanding how functioning as an objectivist and 2) not understanding what one is doing
than most modern humans realize. Having the ‘state of mind’ you have when you think metaethically or metamorally is not the determining factor. For example many good old tried and true consciously anti-racist liberals and progressives will, when tested, show clear racist evaluation patterns. They do not realize how they actually react and how they function, despite having this conscoius sense of themselves as not racist and anti-racist.
Notice the slipperiness: you do not ‘suggest’, you state. You may on occasion use ‘may’ but in the instances I have seen, you do not use may. The very fact that you present here a tidied up version means to me you realize, on some level, that you function like an objectivist.
Notice also: it has nothing at all to do with whether you ‘fail to grasp the points they are making.’ Whether their points are good or not, does not mean 1) you need to or are able to evaluate their motives nor does it 2) make your evaluation any less an objectivist stance. The mere rejection of your ideas MEANS that they are not being rational, they are scared.
Notice now in terms of the future: There is no good practical or non-hypocritical reason to do this, sometimes or otherwise. You can continue to raise your issues and question the epistemological basis of their objectivism without the kinds of objectivist us/them, good vs. bad patterns of interaction.
I think Prismatic has made good points about why you should drop the whole ‘hole’ discussion or keep it separate from the philosophical issues. It functions like a call for help, which you do not want. It also functions as a basis for your evaluation of yourself vs. objectivists, with you as the brave one. Apart from what I have pointed out - it doesn’t work well as justification for your sense of superiority - it ends up being part of an objectivist us/them dichotomy.
Good, I agree. Though there is no way to judge whether this is good or bad that they do this or some lesser evil, etc.
Another us/them good vs. bad categorization that is not necessary to your project of finding out if anyone can resolve conflicting goods and challenging the epistemology of individual objectivists.
And same response as my previous.
Yes, your Good.
If this was truly you goal, you might want to consider that framing the issue in us vs. them terms, I am facing the hole and you are not, moral judgment framework, is a bad practical strategy, let alone the hypocrisy invovled.
Let’s say your self-evaluation is correct. Once in a while you let out a very qualified suggestion in us vs. them terms. It is still a very bad idea. I see it as the rule, how you function as an objectivist. You claim it is an exception that is not objectivist.
Either way, in practical terms, it is a terrible habit in relation to any of what you claim are the goals of this discussion.
Objectivists and others will pick up objectivist habit PLUS they are also being judged for simply being objectivists. You are superior to them - or implied to possibly be, in your self-assessment - AND they are objectively wrong for thinking their beliefs are right. IOW they meet the same judgments that lead to conflicts with other objectivists AND there is an added judgment, ironically, that they are also wrong for being objectivists while you are a nihilist.
I assure you this will not lead to moderation and compromise.
Of course there are other options, but it may seem like this is the only other one. Apart from looking at cognitive science to see if there is, in fact, a much greater chance than you seem to realize that you do not know what you are doing,
you could simply drop all the ‘suggesting’ us vs. them superiority and moral accusation stuff. Drop the ‘hole’ shit out of the discussion, given that you use it as part of a contraption to posit yourself as braver and given that it contributes nothing to the epistemological issues and given that it isn’t much of a hole with TV and films distracting you adequately enough in your own estimation. You could do this AND continue to challenge people around the issue of conflicting goods and challenge their epistemology around determining what is good and bad, etc.
But for some reason you cannot consider dropping these facets of your interaction with others, facets which function as an objectivist moral position.
And then for [you] to note how [your] own value judgments here reflect the optimal frame of mind for all those who wish to be thought of as rational/reasonable men and women. A perfect description of how your patterns of interactoin function as an objectivist position. One you need not defend, since you claim not to have one. Or have ‘them’ in passing, always qualifed, no longer believed in.
If they are mere passing forms, you could drop them out, respond responsibly to feedback, consider it possible you don’t realize what you re doing, at least in full, and certainly do not realize how you are coming across. Realize that it does not add anything to the process you claim to be interested in.
So keep on with the project of questioning if there is a possible resolution to conflicting goods, question on epistemological grounds objectivist positions when posited. The skeptical nihilist project functions perfectly without the us vs. them, this is your motivation, my hole moral positioning. In fact it is stronger PLUS it is less likely to antagonize.
A win/win solution. One of compromise and moderation.