Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Tue May 22, 2018 4:34 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Many do just end in shrugging their shoulders and ignoring the story.
I haven't ignored the story. Nor do I ignore the ways the story is used - obviously, given what I wrote.

many do not want to recognize how this myth has been used by Christianity to enhance and advance their ability to apply and teach their homophobic and misogynous policies.
I am not sure how the Garden of Eden myth is used homophobically, but I suppose creative homophobes may manage somehow. And yes, the story is used to support hatred of women. But you were focused on a theological issue around punishment for going against God's order and God punishing because of this. You put this in the context of parents and children. I shrug in relation to that issue and to the story itself, given what I wrote and that the story is not clear.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is not call B.S. on Christianity's interpretation.
Sure, I've done that in other contexts. Here I answered the question you asked, and you ignore that answer.

I'll add here, that going directly at the GofE story seems like a really poor tactic. First, attack the mysogeny, for example, then if the G&E story is raised to justify it, show 1) how the story was originally interpreted in Judaism 2) show the wide variety of interpretations in Christianity 3) challenge the logic of punishing current humans for what Adam and Eve did back then 4) point out that even in the Bible it is clear that Adam and Eve are not the only ancestors of humans, so the story must be symbolic and the symbols can be interpreted in a variety of ways 5) get them to name the authority they base their interpretation on - and it will have to be a human- and ask if that human might be fallible.

Of course this will likely not change many minds either- though perhaps a few more than yours - but your approach which starts with the story seems like a weak approach and is itself confused, in part because what you focus on is not necessarily silly but further is not the real weak area of what some Christians do with the Gof E story. I still have a shrug about that.

And the 'for evil to grow' statement makes it seems like if one does not take the tactical and hermeneutic position you do one is contributing to the growth of evil' How propagandistic, how simplifying of a complicated situation with many many different possible good approaches and how hysterical.
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby WendyDarling » Tue May 22, 2018 4:54 pm

4) point out that even in the Bible it is clear that Adam and Eve are not the only ancestors of humans, so the story must be symbolic and the symbols can be interpreted in a variety of ways

I haven't read every word in the Bible, but I've never heard of this before. I thought Adam and Eve were the theological beginning from which all men sprung (not the evolutionary well though). Who were the other ancestors?
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue May 22, 2018 5:05 pm

Karpel Tunnel

I can and do readily admit that my style, delivery, etiquette, grammar etc. etc. is not the best. Self education will do that.

If you are volunteering to prof read and ghost write to add eloquence to my self taught and not formally uneducated grammatical and writings, I am all in for that.

Being French, I need all the help in English I can get, given that it is not nearly as good of a communication language as French.

If not volunteering, then you will have to accept that my style, is what it is. :oops:

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Greatest I am » Tue May 22, 2018 5:07 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
4) point out that even in the Bible it is clear that Adam and Eve are not the only ancestors of humans, so the story must be symbolic and the symbols can be interpreted in a variety of ways

I haven't read every word in the Bible, but I've never heard of this before. I thought Adam and Eve were the theological beginning from which all men sprung (not the evolutionary well though). Who were the other ancestors?


You are correct.

Christianity cannot assign their phony Original Sin without an original sinner.

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sun Jun 03, 2018 8:34 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
4) point out that even in the Bible it is clear that Adam and Eve are not the only ancestors of humans, so the story must be symbolic and the symbols can be interpreted in a variety of ways

I haven't read every word in the Bible, but I've never heard of this before. I thought Adam and Eve were the theological beginning from which all men sprung (not the evolutionary well though). Who were the other ancestors?
I don't know, but their children get wives. Where did they come from? And I believe Adam and Eve only had sons, so.....
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby newegg » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:29 pm

heaven represents total pleasure hell represents abscence of pleasure.

if you obey the rules you are promised with heaven. if you disobey the rules you are promised with hell.

this is viewed as moral in the sense that we derive our morals from pleasure and pain. And in this self-referntial context, disobedience would cause pain to self, therefore disobedience in of itself is immoral.

This circular reasoning causes Christians to dogmatically obey.
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:28 pm

newegg wrote:heaven represents total pleasure hell represents abscence of pleasure.

if you obey the rules you are promised with heaven. if you disobey the rules you are promised with hell.

this is viewed as moral in the sense that we derive our morals from pleasure and pain. And in this self-referntial context, disobedience would cause pain to self, therefore disobedience in of itself is immoral.

This circular reasoning causes Christians to dogmatically obey.


Indeed.

While Christians ignore that purposeless torture in hell would only be practiced by an insane God.

Only morally corrupted Christians and Muslims will follow such a vile God.

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:41 pm

I wonder how that Story would have been written if it had been told/written after we attained to all of the knowledge about evolution, science, ad continuum ~~ ALL OF IT?

Perhaps it would have not been told at all.

It is just myth, human infallible men trying to make sense of things as they were back then. Perhaps they did the best job they could with what they had to work with.

You might as well discuss Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:21 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:I wonder how that Story would have been written if it had been told/written after we attained to all of the knowledge about evolution, science, ad continuum ~~ ALL OF IT?

Perhaps it would have not been told at all.

It is just myth, human infallible men trying to make sense of things as they were back then. Perhaps they did the best job they could with what they had to work with.

You might as well discuss Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf.


??

Has Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf created a religion that has victimized so many women and gays with a homophobic and misogynous ways?

Has Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf use Inquisitions and Jihads against humanity?

For evil to grow, all good people need to is ignore the evils of religions and see those vile and damaging stories as just a version of Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf.

Do you really see a moral equivalence in the two myths?

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:17 pm

Karpel Tunnel,

Of course this will likely not change many minds either- though perhaps a few more than yours - but your approach which starts with the story seems like a weak approach and is itself confused, in part because what you focus on is not necessarily silly but further is not the real weak area of what some Christians do with the Gof E story. I still have a shrug about that.


What do you see as the *real* weak area?
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:34 pm

Greatest I am

Has Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf


The point that I was trying to make is that much of it is myth and fantasy just as many stories are written, from one's imagination albeit there is also much history there.
Do you ever stop to consider and mention the good things about the bible, the beautiful pearls of wisdom there?

created a religion that has victimized so many women and gays with a homophobic and misogynous ways?


Have you ever stopped to consider that humanity (at least much of humanity) has reached more of an enlightened stage than there was back then? When you consider these things, do you ever have THAT in mind?


Has Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf use Inquisitions and Jihads against humanity?


No, but people who are the despots and the puppeteers have a need to have things their way, their beliefs practiced their way, their thinking and ideas their way, are the real big bad wolves.

I love wolves and I am sorry wolves that I maligned you in such a way. :evilfun:

This is what you do not see at least I think you do. You take everything in the bible so literally and you do not take into account the culture and beliefs of that time.

For evil to grow, all good people need to is ignore the evils of religions


For evil to grow all people ALSO need to do is to not see the good which comes from some religions. There is always another aspect of things - the light and the dark, the good and the evil, the hot and the cold, the thinking and the unthinking.
You are actually throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Unless you can also see the good, you may also be adding to the corruption of a religion.

Religion is composed of PEOPLE, INDIVIDUALS. Perhaps if you read the NT you can see that there is much good in the words of Christ whether or not he existed is another thing.

It is not necessarily a bad thing ~~ it is probably a good thing to point out the negative unenlightened areas of the bible like anti-semitism, hatred and bashing of gays, incest, et cetera, but if you do not see and also point out the good parts, you lose your credibility. If you cannot understand that many if not most people back then were *ignorant* meaning never having learned about something in the first place, how can come to the truth about things.

You cannot just show one side of something without the other and get at the truth, can you?
Last edited by Arcturus Descending on Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:35 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Karpel Tunnel,

Of course this will likely not change many minds either- though perhaps a few more than yours - but your approach which starts with the story seems like a weak approach and is itself confused, in part because what you focus on is not necessarily silly but further is not the real weak area of what some Christians do with the Gof E story. I still have a shrug about that.


What do you see as the *real* weak area?
Original Sin in general as a concept. Apart from taking the story literally and then having Adam and Eve's kids finding wives, which is a recipe for a mindfuck. I mean who did they marry? But the idea of original sin is horrendous.
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:01 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Arcturus Descending wrote:Karpel Tunnel,

Of course this will likely not change many minds either- though perhaps a few more than yours - but your approach which starts with the story seems like a weak approach and is itself confused, in part because what you focus on is not necessarily silly but further is not the real weak area of what some Christians do with the Gof E story. I still have a shrug about that.


What do you see as the *real* weak area?
Original Sin in general as a concept. Apart from taking the story literally and then having Adam and Eve's kids finding wives, which is a recipe for a mindfuck. I mean who did they marry? But the idea of original sin is horrendous.


Jews know this but somehow the Christians missed it.

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Christians are so keen to ride their scapegoat Jesus into heaven that they forget that Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi, would tell them that they are choosing Satan's ways and not his.

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jun 14, 2018 4:22 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Greatest I am

Has Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf


The point that I was trying to make is that much of it is myth and fantasy just as many stories are written, from one's imagination albeit there is also much history there.
Do you ever stop to consider and mention the good things about the bible, the beautiful pearls of wisdom there?


Sure. I quote many passages when it is useful to do so. Mostly against what Christians are thinking but they do not take the rebuke from their own myths well.

created a religion that has victimized so many women and gays with a homophobic and misogynous ways?


Have you ever stopped to consider that humanity (at least much of humanity) has reached more of an enlightened stage than there was back then? When you consider these things, do you ever have THAT in mind?


Certainly. That does not mean that I or you should ignore that both Christianity and Islam are still promoting homophobia and misogyny. It is the victims that we should be thinking more of than those happy with homophobia and misogyny. Right?

Has Little Red Riding Hood and the big bad wolf use Inquisitions and Jihads against humanity?


No, but people who are the despots and the puppeteers have a need to have things their way, their beliefs practiced their way, their thinking and ideas their way, are the real big bad wolves.


Indeed. Have you seen the latest example of that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_bvGTc6SM8

I would tell the Pope to his face ------

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjRy29R4gP8

I love wolves and I am sorry wolves that I maligned you in such a way. :evilfun:

This is what you do not see at least I think you do. You take everything in the bible so literally and you do not take into account the culture and beliefs of that time.


I do actually. I just think that in our changing and morally improving times, that religions like Christianity and Islam are slowing us down because they want to continue preaching their immoral and unjust creeds.

For evil to grow, all good people need to is ignore the evils of religions


For evil to grow all people ALSO need to do is to not see the good which comes from some religions. There is always another aspect of things - the light and the dark, the good and the evil, the hot and the cold, the thinking and the unthinking.
You are actually throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Unless you can also see the good, you may also be adding to the corruption of a religion.


I do see the good, but it is overshadowed by the evil on my scale.

Do you see it as good that Christianity, let's say, idol worships a genocidal son murdering God and is that insane evil overshadowed by whatever good you think a homophobic and misogynous Christianity brings?

Religion is composed of PEOPLE, INDIVIDUALS. Perhaps if you read the NT you can see that there is much good in the words of Christ whether or not he existed is another thing.


I agree if you cherry pick hard enough.

There is also a lot of immorality in many of Jesus' policies.

Here are a few of those but he does not talk of my highest two which are substitutionary atonement and Jesus' no divorce fopr women policy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUfGRN4HVrQ

It is not necessarily a bad thing ~~ it is probably a good thing to point out the negative unenlightened areas of the bible like anti-semitism, hatred and bashing of gays, incest, et cetera, but if you do not see and also point out the good parts, you lose your credibility. If you cannot understand that many if not most people back then were *ignorant* meaning never having learned about something in the first place, how can come to the truth about things.

You cannot just show one side of something without the other and get at the truth, can you?


I show where I stand and position and leave it to dissenters to show theirs.

Like here, if asked, I show the good I see as well as the evil, and show my verdict.

You are quite slow to show your verdict and thus promote the immorality of the religions you do not condemn.

As Jesus said, be hot or cold. Get off the fence.

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Jun 15, 2018 12:07 am

Greatest I am wrote:Jews know this but somehow the Christians missed it.

They may not have the concept formally, but they, like nearly everyone else confuse guilt with love and self-hatred with some positive form of humility. And let's not forget shame.
There are a lot of ways to undermine someone and Judaism competes quite well the Christianity.
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:27 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:Jews know this but somehow the Christians missed it.

They may not have the concept formally, but they, like nearly everyone else confuse guilt with love and self-hatred with some positive form of humility. And let's not forget shame.
There are a lot of ways to undermine someone and Judaism competes quite well the Christianity.


I do not see Jews competing with Christianity. They mostly ignore Christians from what I can see. That or try to show Christians where they went wrong but most Christians ignore this as if they have forgotten where Christianity plagiarized it's religion from.

The Abrahamic cults, Christianity, Islam and Judaism, do not respect each others contradicting views.

Gnostic Christians like me dislike their ideologies and say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian and we do not mind arguing our case. Those who can discern a good ideology from a poor one will agree. That is why they use Inquisitions and Jihad to grow while Gnostic Christians just use sound and moral arguments. They could not best us and resorted to murdering us.

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:37 pm

Greatest I Am,

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]


I am going to whittle this down quite a bit here.

Let us leave God out of this ....or not.

Is there any way in which you can look at the above and learn from it, derive any truth or wisdom at all from it?
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:43 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Greatest I Am,

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]


I am going to whittle this down quite a bit here.

Let us leave God out of this ....or not.

Is there any way in which you can look at the above and learn from it, derive any truth or wisdom at all from it?


Yes.

If I did not already, I would not use the quote.

There is some cases where the children will suffer from their parents actions, but to legislate or demand that suffering is immoral.

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Arcturus Descending » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:59 pm

Greatest I Am,

I show where I stand and position and leave it to dissenters to show theirs.

Like here, if asked, I show the good I see as well as the evil, and show my verdict.


Can you please remind me of the good which you see. Point it out because I am missing it.

You are quite slow to show your verdict and thus promote the immorality of the religions you do not condemn.


Yes perhaps I am. How can there even be a verdict when the waters are so muddied by misunderstandings, biases, so much tunnel vision. For crying out loud, we blame a God for things which we ourselves have done and are doing. The Bible is, erroneously, to many more or less the exact inspiration and voice of God. We believe this instead of coming to realize that it is no more nor less the voices of those who lived back then and interpreted their world according to their beliefs and cultures. If you are going to condemn and hand down a verdict, hand it down on individuals who deserve it ~~ those who have not learned anything from the past and who insist on following the same patterns antiquated patterns because it suits their desires and purpose.

You talk about cherry picking. It seems to me that this is what you are doing.
Things are not so black and white and I really do not like to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

As Jesus said, be hot or cold. Get off the fence.


So you agree with Christ about that? Is hot or cold like black and white? Are there never any gray areas albeit there are times when one cannot be on the fence.

Do you actually believe that a God is responsible for all of the wrongs in this world?
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:16 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
I don't know, but their children get wives. Where did they come from? And I believe Adam and Eve only had sons, so.....


In Genesis 5 it tells you Adam and Eve not only had Cain and Abel and Seth, it says they had other sons and daughters. Adam married his sister, basically, they both had the same Creator. They married their sisters. You have to keep reading to find out where they came from. He took one of his sisters with him. Abraham married his half sister, Sara.
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:54 am

It is never stated that these were the wives or if the timing is right. But let's say it is...
then it is incest.
One can then say that only later was incest labelled bad by God.
But then this means that morals are arbritrary.
Incest is OK for a while, then not OK.
Cause I said so.

And the Bible never says they married their sisters.
Process of elimination indicates this.
But then, if we are going to decide certain things must be the case but are left out,
perhaps other things are left out.
Like others were made.
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Greatest I am » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:12 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:Greatest I Am,

I show where I stand and position and leave it to dissenters to show theirs.

Like here, if asked, I show the good I see as well as the evil, and show my verdict.


Can you please remind me of the good which you see. Point it out because I am missing it.

You are quite slow to show your verdict and thus promote the immorality of the religions you do not condemn.


Yes perhaps I am. How can there even be a verdict when the waters are so muddied by misunderstandings, biases, so much tunnel vision. For crying out loud, we blame a God for things which we ourselves have done and are doing. The Bible is, erroneously, to many more or less the exact inspiration and voice of God. We believe this instead of coming to realize that it is no more nor less the voices of those who lived back then and interpreted their world according to their beliefs and cultures. If you are going to condemn and hand down a verdict, hand it down on individuals who deserve it ~~ those who have not learned anything from the past and who insist on following the same patterns antiquated patterns because it suits their desires and purpose.

You talk about cherry picking. It seems to me that this is what you are doing.
Things are not so black and white and I really do not like to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

As Jesus said, be hot or cold. Get off the fence.


So you agree with Christ about that? Is hot or cold like black and white? Are there never any gray areas albeit there are times when one cannot be on the fence.

Do you actually believe that a God is responsible for all of the wrongs in this world?


Mostly, yes. Imaginary Gods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxoxPapPxXk

If you get off the fence, you will agree.

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Jun 16, 2018 10:44 pm

Greatest I am wrote:Do you actually believe that a God is responsible for all of the wrongs in this world?


Mostly, yes. Imaginary Gods.

[/quote]
What about what atheist communist regimes and neo-con corporate processes, like those, say, in Latin America carried out by corportions. That easily outdoes in the 20th century deaths related to religion.

I see no reason to assume that the end of the organized religions will get rid of most of the wrongs in the world?

which does not mean i am a fan of them.
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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby A Shieldmaiden » Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:27 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
It is never stated that these were the wives or if the timing is right. But let's say it is...
then it is incest.


Genesis 20:2
2 Now Abraham said of Sarah his wife, “She is my sister.”

Intermarriage among close family members was a necessity in the generations immediately following Adam and Noah.
The man that walks his own road, walks alone

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Re: Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:50 pm

A Shieldmaiden wrote:Karpel Tunnel wrote:
It is never stated that these were the wives or if the timing is right. But let's say it is...
then it is incest.


Genesis 20:2
2 Now Abraham said of Sarah his wife, “She is my sister.”

Intermarriage among close family members was a necessity in the generations immediately following Adam and Noah.
Since God made no one else. And yes, it says that about Abraham, but 'sister' often meant any female relative. His nephew Lot is called brother. Furtherh there were whole other groups, like the Cananites, whose land Abraham was given. He could have married one of them. In his lifetime there were also Egyptians. With Adam's children it is a deiduction that it is sisters. And again the relativeness of the issue with incest is odd. Abraham could have found a wife in another group. God could have made other people for A and E's sons. Incest isn't bad in itself, it simply becomes a rule, later. IOW it is not inherently a bad thing. God makes it a rule. Like it's breaking the rules to touch a football with your hands. We don't think there is anything inherently wrong with that act, it's just one of the restrictions in the game. It's odd that God would make it so heinous after it is not. It is also odd he did not prevent it.
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