Zionist Solutions

Discussion of the recent unfolding of history.

Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Pandora » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:58 am

From its very conception, Israel was meant for particular idealized kind of Jews, modern and secular, up to the current enlightened European standards. But how can one maintain that Zionism was being anti-Semitic at heart when it was first founded, and at the same time to say that to criticize it is also being anti-Semitic? Does that not mean that a Jew cannot ever really be anti-Semitic, and even his so called anti-semitic actions are to be forgiven?
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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby URUZ » Mon Jun 18, 2018 12:39 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Jut be glad that you don't know what you're talking about.



I find this to be the most common ethos of these... people.
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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Pandora » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:11 am

And so what of the idea that were it not for anti Semitism, the Jewish identity would have been long assimilated into non-existence? In that it only served/serves to preserve and strengthen the Jewish identity?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljaze ... 12381.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaret ... /1.4687494
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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:50 am

Pandora wrote:And so what of the idea that were it not for anti Semitism, the Jewish identity would have been long assimilated into non-existence? In that it only served/serves to preserve and strengthen the Jewish identity?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljaze ... 12381.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.haaret ... /1.4687494

It's an idea third parties can talk about, but it doesn't excuse, say, you.
Perhaps your kid gets sexually abused by a pedophile. This brings you and your husband, prior to that near a divorce, closer. Your kid growns up with a new calling to prevent children suffering and leads a valuable centered on that.
This doesn't excuse the pedophile.
Someone shoots you because you took their parking spaces, as they viewed it.
In emergency surgery the doctors discover a large tumor, which, if not found this early would have killed you.
The parking space maniac still should go to prison.

It's a groundless confused argument and one used by bullies, and it has a kind of sick twist of the knife in it: I am actually helping you even as I intend no such thing and hate you.

It may sound cool. Oh, here's a way I can make someone feel guilty about hating the fact that mistreat them, heh,heh.

But it's BS. And for those few stupid enough to be coninved themselves that the argument makes sense - rather than consciously using it as another weapon - they've actually damaged themelves also, but hiding themselves from themselves.

Of course for that you'd have to be pretty dumb-
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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:08 pm

Congratulations on mustering the patience to explain that.
I mean this very honestly: the most disturbing thing about antisemites is their stupidity. This is the real threat to the world, the hatred of the stupid for those that are not; first it is the Jews who are attacked, but if they'd be removed by some ill fate, the rest of the worlds people with IQs above 100 would become the target.

Antisemitism is like polio on this planet, it is the self-glorification of the worlds crippled minds. They actually pride themselves on non sequiturs and circular arguments, they actually enjoy their stupidity, and think of it as a moral advantage.
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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Pandora » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:04 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:I mean this very honestly: the most disturbing thing about antisemites is their stupidity.

Antisemitism is like polio on this planet, it is the self-glorification of the worlds crippled minds.


As of yet, you haven’t provided any factual counter-evidence that would either plant the seeds of doubt or convince the anti-Semite otherwise. Most of your responses have been emotional outbursts. As for me, I take that this might be a result of your pre-existing mental instability which is aggravated by your drug use (and was it not you who said that those who do not use drugs are not to be trusted?! - and that says to me that someone is already living on the wrong side of the rabbit hole), so to me, your emotional outbursts (and your general persona) are understood in that context. But still you have not even made any attempts to present any factual evidence to prove accusations wrong..besides thowing around scorn and repeatedly calling everyone stupid. I will accept that my IQ may be well below 100, and I’m okay with that, especially if the alternative may mean an eventual descent into some type of psychotic madness (which I’m sure you’d approve and in fact call it some type of “genius”). So, I will continue to do my own “stupid” research and draw my own “stupid” conclusions. And you can continue to sit on your high IQ throne and call me stupid (as if it will change anything). Antisemitism exists and has existed for many centuries. It is a fact. As far as I’m concerned, just calling it stupid is not an argument.

A suggestion for you-
If you don’t like reading stupid ideas from stupid people, and are no longer able to effectively communicate with them due to the vast expanse in intellect between you and them, or if some posts trigger your delicate high and refined IQ sensibilities to the point where they may suffer damage and need to be protected, you can always block those users so you don’t see their posts. Or just leave for a place where you can surround yourself with other high IQ people like yourself. Here, you don’t have to suffer others’ stupidity if you don’t want to.


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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:21 am

Pandora wrote:
Fixed Cross wrote:I mean this very honestly: the most disturbing thing about antisemites is their stupidity.

Antisemitism is like polio on this planet, it is the self-glorification of the worlds crippled minds.


As of yet, you haven’t provided any factual counter-evidence that would either plant the seeds of doubt or convince the anti-Semite otherwise.
Anyone referring to themselves in the collective third person may not realize the irony present when they predict the madness of others.
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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:39 pm

Image

a people in the making.

compare these starkly human pictures to images of other armies around the word - Israel is ready for another three thousand years. Not because of brutality, but the opposite, a duty to never bow before it.
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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Fixed Cross » Sat Jun 30, 2018 10:45 pm

Admittedly I did not finish college.
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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:22 am

It seems to me Israel is committed to brutality as a system wide approach and founded itself on brutality and racism. Jewish people are not to be confused with Israel, even if Israel conflates the two things. And I see nothing special in that photo except that women are amongst the soldiers, though this is true in other countries more and more also and has been true in people's that did not fare so well in history. A group of soldiers, dirty, walking down a street. I do not see what makes this image evidence of the grand statement you make or it not being about brutality or anything else. No one denies that Israel has a very effective military - however much it is bolstered by tech and funding from the US. Perhaps some Arabs polemicists would deny the bravery of Israelis soldiers and Israels intent to continue. But I think all of them realize the latter and few deny the former.

The people are known in part for the diaspora, as are nearly all people's now. And clearly part of the jewish people's solution to surviving and thriving is to not live in Israel. A majority live elsewhere. IOW a majority have a different survival strategy.
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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Fixed Cross » Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:47 pm

Ive been through the ME, seen Hezbollah at work, as well as the Israelis. I have to conclude you're entirely ignorant of the types and degrees of Middle East brutality.

People measure Israel by the standards they wouldn't even use on the spouse of their children. Thats an honour, of course - apparently Jews are expected to do a lot better than non Jews.

Dont pretend to speak for the Jewish race and its will and plights, not from such an aloof academics perspective.
I won't take anyone seriously on this who hasn't visited the place, anyway - I don't tend to speak in judgment about places I havent seen. Its why N said the printing press was a bad idea. It gives people the illusion of knowing things.

Armchair philosophy is something not only I can't respect, I can't even imagine the attraction. The wold exists. So I go into it. Apparently Im quite exceptional in this, among those interested in philosophy anyway. The type is still much too fragile.
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Re: Zionist Solutions

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Mon Jul 02, 2018 5:45 pm

Fixed Cross wrote:Ive been through the ME, seen Hezbollah at work, as well as the Israelis. I have to conclude you're entirely ignorant of the types and degrees of Middle East brutality.
Well, no, I'm not.

People measure Israel by the standards they wouldn't even use on the spouse of their children. Thats an honour, of course - apparently Jews are expected to do a lot better than non Jews.
For me, Jews and Israel are not the same. Just as you are I are not responsible for what the elites our country do, so you can cut the anti-semitism crap. I grew up amongst Jews and have not the slightest problem with them.

Dont pretend to speak for the Jewish race and its will and plights, not from such an aloof academics perspective.
Snore.

The brutality of Israel's enemies does not justify Israels fundamentally racist society. And this is against Jews, also, there is a caste system, Ashkenazi down through Sephardic and on to black jews. This is a country that sent weapons and training to dictatorships in Latin America and to the racist Apartheid regime in South Africa. It happily plays US chosen games in the ME with Saudi Arabia as an ally. They have shown no sympathy, as a government for the plight of people shit on and killed systematically by other governments, and in fact have made money supporting those regimes. The country is founded on racist expulsion. Sure, other groups in the regine do fucked up stuff. And while this might justify some of the responding brutality aimed at them, it does not justify brutality aimed at people who are not threats to Israel. It happily allows itself to be a tool for US destabilizatoin and regime change in the Middle east.

I am so fucking tired of criticism of Israel being painted as it must be anti-semitism. That is just destructive baby fallacy shit and it causes a lot of damage. Grow the fuck up.

Anyone who visits Israel has the right to speak, no one else does. Just make up rules and then wank off about how proud you are of your meaningless rule.

My tax dollars have supported that government against my bidding. I get to be critical of its brutality.

Since you can't even consider a criticism of Israel's behavior as anything other than anti-semitism, it is obviously meaningless to talk to you about the subject.

It is disrespectful to Jews to conflate the two, apart from being completely irrational. It means that they are ALL their government and responsible for its choices, Jews everywhere. Which would mean that every american is responsible for Obama's policies. Though it is even odder, since most Americans actually live in the US.

YOu are being just as dumb as those Arabs in Europe who turn rage and violence on Jews living in Europe since those Jews are Israel. But a simple message to you and those Arabs, no, sorry, they are not Israel. You're off your rails on this topic but not on others. I suppose we all have these twisted spots but I'll avoid you when it comes to Israel.

And yes, you did not directly call me an anti-semite, but it is implicit in several of your statements.

EDIT: though I realized after, this is my fault. I read your highly romanticized projections onto that photo and what it 'showed' and went ahead as if such a highly romanticized viewing could be anything else but a kind of jealous worhip. You wish whatever your people was doing was what you see the Israeli's as doing. An archetypal image of your own yearning projected over a very mundane photo of soldiers.
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