Cause of Mass Shootings Revealed:

Like I said earlier in this thread, a point to which he’s yet to respond…I think he’s too emotional to have an actual debate. He’s reasoning from his feelings instead of deriving his feelings from reason. I think I’ve said that a handful of times to him and he just keeps ignoring it. He’s asking me for an argument when I must have typed 1000 words and I gave a relatively thorough analysis of the issue of gun control. He ignored that and posted a picture of a washing machine and said something about CNN.

He’s just young, not completely mature, not completely educated and not completely emotionally stable. He’s apparently deeply insecure and still in that stage where “winning”, as in “beating someone in an argument” is more important than having a full understanding of a given issue. You can always spot these guys because they cling like crazy to one overarching ideal and everything that they express can be linked back to just that ideal. They’re not reasoning, analyzing, understanding, synthesizing information and coming to valid conclusions about reality. Instead, they’re trying to use rhetorical force, via a sequence of obvious fallacies to insist that the world is the way that they want it to be.

Wouldn’t it be better to understand how things actually are?

Here’s a pretty good one.
Screen-Shot-2015-11-03-at-6.08.30-PM-770x406.jpg

That’s what you call “reasoning, analyzing, understanding, synthesizing information and coming to valid conclusions about reality”? And totally not emotional whatsoever I bet.

:laughing:

I see the irony is lost on you.

I made a very similar analysis of him on another thread independently.

It’s interesting how you point out that he’s reasoning from his feelings instead of deriving his feelings from reason - this is exactly what he accuses “the left” of doing, against whom he has set himself. Another thing he assumes is that those he is against just make up stuff in line with their emotions and without reason - which of course is also exactly what he does. The “projection” is obvious to outside observers. I just wrote a rant on another thread about short attention spans and instant gratification, which is exactly in line with your observation about him simply wanting to “win” rather than grow. He encapsulates a caricatured version of all the fallacies that you would expect from somebody who knows nothing but suffers from the Dunning-Kruger effect, and in line with that, he holds this conviction that he is particularly superior. I think the feeling of understanding how things actually are is more valuable to him than actually understanding how things actually are.

Start at the beginning of the thread. It’s only 2 pages. When you’re caught up, get back to me.

You mistake having a conscience for “sensationalism”.
Anyway, me and my sensationalist buddies won the battle, thank god.
You and your buddies can take over the stage again and yell politically correct murder, it wont be of any consequence. Hillary is running for Facebook.

Maybe The Rock will run.

If you’re talking about the election, and I am no supporter of Hillary, then yes you and your conscientious buddies got the branding that you needed for the same tyranny that we’d have got either way.

Nicely and concisely put.

Huh?
Isis is defeated, the Korean War is resolving, Russia is no longer on the verge of starting WWIII, Israel is allowed its own capital, European countries are being liberated from Neocon yoke -
Its a pity so many Americans have no clue that they have the first human world leader ever. I mean that. I can still cry in gratitude. Trump is more benevolent for the world than Jesus.

Don’t watch so much Jimmy Kimmel.

Primarily thanks to Russia and the Syrian government. Russia was the first nation to real go for them.

Here Trumps hazardous move may well have done some good.

It’s not Russia that is setting up weapon systems, chemical weapons factories, anti-ballistic missiles all in close proximity to the US. Nor has Russia been destabilizing countries near Russia to set up puppet governments and get control of resources there. And Trumps highly pro-Israel, let’s find a way to have a war with Iran team - just look at their histories and goals, is also very destabilizing.

It had that before.

Not hardly. I’m over here, privitization, centralization of power, consolidation of media, more ‘free market’ solutions, the whole neo-con agenda is just moving on just as it did in the US and Britain, only later. Parties that resist neocon economic policies are weakening every day. And even if Britain manages to actually Brexit -the jury is still out - they will be under corporate thumb.

The first human world leader is then a sociopath. I wouldn’t let a guy with those eyes near my family.

Isis is Obonko/Clonts creation. Trump allowed them to be destroyed.
He reversed the most Satanic US policies in history.

Iran is a genocidal state sacrificing more Arabs (about which they don’t care) than anyone else. Tens of millions by now, the past 100 years.
Thank the gods that Trump shredded that deal with them. In any case because Clont is no longer allowed to put mini nukes all around the Russian border, Russia has backed down from its last-resort scenario, which it was ready to employ in 2015/'16 after the failed Nato coup in Moscow in '14.

I don’t know if you are an ideological antisemite, but otherwise I wouldn’t know what is wrong about being pro-Israel. The Jews have a tiny sliver of land for which they fought and suffered three millennia. For some, quite a lot of people actually, this is too much already. They should have nothing. I don’t think so.

Im talking about the Embassy move. Breaking the hypocrisy of subhuman regimes judging what another nations capital should be on account of their “morals”. An end to a great nausea. Just one of the bits of sanity Trump recovered for humanity.

Britain is already islamic. But Britain was never part of Europe, it was always trying to destroy us.
For the rest, Trumps win has emboldened all the nationalist and sane parties. It will still be a long struggle, but we stand to win it now. Not necessarily peacefully, but thats okay.

Interesting, a sociopath who saved more people from hell than any other human in history.

The jury is still out for me on what he is up to in Syria. I am not even sure he knows. Isis is also a Bush creation. The neo-cons are not just democrats.

I am not fan of Iran, but the warmongers in his council, those he chose that is, are neo-cons to the bone and they do not give a shit about the arab population in Iran or anywhere else. They do not care what damage a war with Iran would cause or how many more terrorists get created by such a war. But my jury is out on what he is up to, but his choice of advisors looks pretty fucked up

I appreciate you not assuming I am an anti-semite. What a world where someone can imply that I would seem to be, but at least leave the door open, and I feel grateful. It is so easy online to just state that the other person is X, when it is not the only option. Israel has supported all sorts of fucked up regimes in Africa and South America, for example. They destabilize other countries in the region and they COUPLE WITH THE NEOCONS and Saudi Arabia destablize not only the Middle East but superpower relations. Their internal policies are racist and not just against arabs but against the ‘wrong kind of jews’. I don’t conflate governments with the people in the countries. If you are american I would not assume you were a neo con. And Israel tries to enforce pc speech laws all over the place in the world and quite effectively.

I figured, just pointing out the obvious.

It did nothing to their opinions, likely hardened them.

If US is the US this would be news to the neocons. Together they have wandered through the middle east destroying countries together, share policies in relation to the other superpowers, and got together happily with France to try regime change in Syria, which led to the refugee/migration crisis, the rise of Isis, making Russia more nervous than it should be and more. And Brexit also made nationalists happy in other Eu countries.

The nationalist parties are pawns in the driving social democrats towards neo con economic policies, the increased power of Brussels, and people being at war with each other rather than noticing and focusing on what those in real power are doing. What will happen I do not know. And I am oversimplifying, just as I think you are, if incorrectly. There are a lot of forces in play. Nationalist parties in the EU just set up for alt.right alt. left battles as have taken place in the US. A big fucking distraction from which there will come increased surveillance, increased policing, more neocon economic policies and noise over signals.

First, even if that were the case, no one can deny how fucked up and reptilian (not in the Icke sense) his eyes are. SEcond, I just don’t see what you are claiming. But that would be great. I hope you are right, but I see very little direct accomplishment, just increased tension.

Absoutely. Before Obolkos second term I always considered the Republicans the worst maniacs.
Then Obolko with Clont as SS broke all records of insanity.

Trumps candidacy completely took me by surprise. I loved what he was promising, and I was astonished that he immediately went about fulfilling these promises. Completely unheard of, and I can’t help really liking him for it. Under 18 months in and he has shown more balls and wit in foreign policy than I would ever have expected of the US in its entire lifespan. I was always contemptuous of the sad cluelessness US leaders showed with respect to the world outside of their borders. But Trump even makes friends in Beijing. Thats … abnormally competent.

This makes no sense to me. If someone is an imminent threat to you, you take him out, or do something about his capacity to threaten. You don’t let him sit there for fear he may become more of a threat if you do anything about him.
Iran with an atomic bomb would truly be a fundamental problem for the coming thousands of years.
Iran has already been spending more than their GDP on terrorists, the money they got from Obolk all went into weaponry for Hezbollah and Hamas. Taking away money from them is not going to cause them to be able to pay for more terrorists. Hamas, incidentally, tells Palestinian boys that the Israeli border is open and they can just walk into Jerusalem. So they try, and get in the line of legitimate fire, as bloody meat for the antisemite press and masses. It is profoundly sickening, this Obama-Hamas axis.

Im from Amsterdam, by the way. You did not appear to me at all like an antisemite (the “if” was pretty strong) because you display a calm and thoughtful disposition. Antisemites are invariably jumpy morons.
Your objections to Israels politics are of a normal political order, and I do not have issue with such objections, other than that I don’t find the proper weight in them to object to Israels existence. And if Israels existence is desirable, then this is the moment to affirm and defend it.

Politics is brutal, Israel is no exception. Surely its acts aren’t nearly as ugly as those perpetrated by Turkey, France, England, etc, let alone the US, China and Russia, not to mention Hamas and the Palestinian Authority itself - basic “human grocery stores”. (Ive been embedded with Hezbollah as a journalist. Ugliest shit Ive ever seen) Lets first turn to our own countries and see that they can compare to Israels relative prudence before we start to demand that Israel “behaves”.

Yes, opinions of antisemites will always “Harden”, except that they were stone hard and inhuman to begin with. There isn’t anything to lose for Jews vis a vis the antiseite hordes. They don’t think, they don’t negotiate, they only wish there were no Jews.

The only change here is that the Jews finally feel they have their old kings city back. A place in the world where they belong.
take a moment and imagine being part of a generation that sees a 3000 year old struggle resolved.
A greater arc of will isn’t present in our culture. Im very excited to have been part of this fight.

If you study the English politics vs the continent from way before the Westphalian peace, you see they never did anything that wasn’t aimed at weakening this or that continental power, causing war between them, along with of course ravaging the rest of the world.

Now, if you look at the news, that news which is allowed to come out, I think it would be hard to deny that England has quite officially become an islamic regime.
It may seem unlikely, but on the other hand, its ruling castes have always have shared a resemblance with the Sultans of the Ottoman Empire, for example - it is a distinctly tyrannical, authoritarian sort of nation.
Im sure you read Chomsky, the Manufacture of Consent - look at how it went since the invention of the printing press.
It has been a freedom fearing terror-state all along. But it has always managed to shift the blame on this or that other nation, that is its main strategy.
For example how it blames its massive banking schemes on Rothschild, whose wealth and influence pales in comparison to the big Anglo families.
I think it is still vengeance for what Rothschild pulled on them after Waterloo. In any case it makes no real sense.

I live here, have been waging this war since I am an adult, Ive become deeply familiar with the islamic world here as well as the liberal trends which have been very powerful here since Erasmus, and Ive been the tide begin to change since Trumps victory. Sitting here, outside at a cafe drinking coffee at the corner of my street, I feel I can almost guarantee that Holland is done with the expansion of neocon and globalist agenda, simply stopped caring for it, realized life is better now than it will be if we keep changing with these fads and manias. The country has turned rigidly conservative, calm.

We look with different eyes then. Innumerable dangers have been lifted. Firstly, tensions with Russia were at the verge of a breaking point under Obolko and WWIII would have broken out if Clont had won, the Russians were nuke-drilling for it daily. A mere detail to most of Trumps adversaries apparently, for me a huge victory for mankind, the elimination of the “caliphate”, going linea recta against old US policies. No more children being kneaded in ovens across the Middle East. So much suffering has stopped there, it was worse than Dantes hell. And thats just one of the many things Ive seen him resolve.

I see no evil in Trump. A lot of wicked fun, yes. No malice. And in his acts I see a bold sanity that I, as a politically extremely skeptic lover of US culture, would never have expected of a US president.

Io guess I just don’t see that. He certainly continued the policies of Bush, though there were reductions in the number of servicemen overseas. He was ready to go in with ground troops in Syria, but did not thanks to that reporter whose name I can’t bother to look up right now. But he was generally pretty ineffective. Bush got a couple of wars going - and that’s setting aside neo con involvment in 9/11 - the privitization of the military - meaning giant shifts of money from citizens to corporations. Clinton set the pace for the 2008 crisis by repealing the Glass Speagal act. Obama was the worst against whistleblowers, he was king of the drones, though these killed far fewer than Bush 1s embargo of Iraq alone. Obama failed to get any significant gun legislation. Perhaps he’s left some time bombs in there like Clinton did. But most of his destructiveness seems small scale to me, not for want of kissing neocon ass.

I don’t see Iran as an imminant threat to me. Nor did I see Sadaam or the Taliban as that. They just want another war, another privitization of closed off resources. All the players, including Israel, set up terrorists, and Israel managed to help governmental terrorist all over the world. But since these were aligned with the neo-cons, it is not talked about, not noticed.

I don’t think it’s existence was justifiable, however that transition is over. I have no happy perfect solutions, bu their internal policies and external arms and disruption policies were not a good approach to stabilizing that transition. I don’t see their nukes as a good thing.

I am not in the position to demand that any country behaves. They have more firepower and ability to destabilize than any of their neighbors and their internal and external policies are terrible. The US and Britain certainly have had even more resources and cannot be competed with. I don’t need to hold back criticism of one because others are worse.

It’s hardly resolved. Further, I don’t really care about any people’s selfmythologizations, especially when it gives them entitlement to do what people tend to do with these kinds of hallucinations. It makes for a world where some Arab group will, in 2000 years come in and kill a bunch of innocent people in the name of their stories.

And of course all of my countries, whatever that means, pull this kind of shit also.

Well, it’s interesting getting an Amsterdamians perspective. I have no problem with that. I know a lot about what Britain has done to many parts of the world. I am not a fan of their policies, though I see them as generally aligned with the neo cons on most things. The EU is still trying to get a hold on Europe and has recently been more destabilized. I am extremely skeptical about what is coming. I am amazed at both the left and non-radical right for never mentioning that large countries with centralized goverments tend to be less democratic in reality and treating any rejection of the EU as racist or even nationalist in some pejorative sense. The EU will end up being a nation and a fucking big one. Skeptics about the power of states should have at least some respect for rejection of the EU. But there is none.

Well, I love that you read Chomsky, since you seem to be in a sense on the right, but the right can get a lot out of Chomsky

I honestly can’t get a full bead on or interest in which of the exceptionally rich are responsible for the most shit.

OK, but I would be surprised if privitization, a slow creep of power towards Brussels, more and more centralization of media power in a few companies, more reduction of the commons, further Disneyfication, don’t all just keep heading the way they are heading. Perhaps what you feel with counter these trends, but i am not hearing about it. I know that resistance to refugee/immigration policies is taking some root, but this is peanuts to the NeoCons, especially given how much has already happened.

One of the few things I appreciated about Trump was that it felt like he was pulling us away from WWW3, no small thing. But he ended up actually firing missles at a base in Syria with Russian soldiers on it. And that was after one of these chemical weapons things, before any investigation. And he has recently attacked again, then requested the UN do an investigation to see who did it. He seems a loose cannon there, and I am no longer sure he is preferable even in that area. Don’t get me wrong. I think the neo-cons thought that after the debacles of the Iraq&Afgan wars the only way to get a war was to have a minority president or a woman president start it. I was sure Hilary was going into Syria if she won. I am not a fan of her or hubby. I just see Trump as manipulable at the least and potentially very dangerous.

How did he do this, can you link me?

At this point Ill just have to note that we have widely and fundamentally different values where it concerns politics, justification of power, what constitutes danger - our concerns aren’t communicating. I reckon Ive written down enough for you to be able to realize why I value as I do - and I accept that you simply weigh things differently, based on different criteria for right and wrong.

So what is left, other than to keep pressing with illustrations, details and experiences, is just to thank you for a respectful discussion.

Wait, there is something to which I can meaningfully respond; On the subject of Trump himself there isn’t really any point of correspondence between us, though this is no cause for contempt either way, which is awesome. Anyway, this;

I can’t speak to Germany and England, these countries seem to have surrendered entirely.
I expect Germany to split up in 4 regions at one point as a result.
I expect all sorts of nastiness in England. Spain is also hopeless. On Scandinavia I can’t speak, it looks bad.
For the other countries in Western Europe I mainly see things slowly, creakingly turning in the right direction after decades of weakening.

This only means we are getting ready to begin to resist. Not that there is a successful resistance in action yet.

One detail about my experience with Iran through Hezbollah. They actually are proud of using children to blow themselves up. They kept wanting me to take pictures of memorials for such 8 year olds that they sent out to kill Israelis. This sickening disdain for humans is very characteristic of everything the Iranian regime does in the region. They are foul, just as they were under Xerxes, it seems. Not a great “regional leader”, as all of its neighbours are acutely aware.

The left is responsible for school shootings,

but it isn’t because of their “entitlement politics”, “safe spaces” or “easily triggered-ness” (pun in point.)

The problem is too many white males have guns and they own guns culturally to be intimidating to all the racial minorities. We don’t have a gun problem so much as we have a white male problem.

Police brutality with gun violence all comes from white males, public mass shootings comes from white males, and all the gun supporters primarily are white males.

We need a political campaign against white males you guys.

The truth is all races are violent.
If blacks ruled the world they’d be violent too.