ONe coudl argue, speculate, that he sends them to hell because that is where they function best for the perfection of creation. And they are embraced in the sense that they exist, are included in the whole. You know there are experts in human disciplines who will do things that you would think are counterintuitive. Engineers, mathematicians, literarcy critics, whoever. People with fields of expertise you do not have any in. A little humility in relation to them would lead you to be cautious when you ‘prove’ that they are not building bridges, developing theorums, analyzing novels, fighting epidemics, whatever in the correct way. How much more so in the discussion of a deity. If presented as questions, potential faults, seeming contradictions, your posts could be useful. But when presented as I CAN PROVE THAT GOD IS IRRATIONAL or does not exist, it just comes off as hubris.
How does God’s purposeless torturing of souls in hell make those souls function at their best?
I do not think I ever said I can prove something about God. The one described as supernatural cannot have anything proven of him as he likely does not exist.
I like that you like analyzing what is written of God. You seem to think I made a definitive statements while I just asked a question.
Regards
DL
Did you not understand my post? I thought I made it clear that answering such questions is problematic?
You present arguments as if one can deduce conclusions. That it is logical to make the claims you make. You do not express uncertainty.
But this is what you do over and over. Present arguments as if you are demonstrating that if there was a God, he would be evil, imperfect, misguided, whatever the argument of the moment.
How can I have a serious conversation with someone who does not even know what he or she is doing?
For example…
Seriously. Take some time to mull over how you do not know what you are doing. You present arguments as if you can logical conclude certain things. Deduction involved, generally, proofs.
And I notice you do not take up the issue of experts I raised.
I shant be reading your stuff anymore of youf since you FAIL to respond in an honorable, self-aware manner.
You seem to want to discuss style over what I put and refuse to clear up your own statements.
Pointless.
Regards
DL
Greatest I Am
According to scripture, the son IS part and parcel of the Father, commonly called The Trinity. So in a sense he did step up himself.
Perhaps one can look at it as giving a kidney to a loved one. Would the giver be to blame if things did not work out for the receiver?
Supposedly God gave his son - which is the greater gift - a son or a kidney?
If you were God, how would you have handled the situation? How would you handle the situation Now? Things have not changed much you know.
Can you name the moral reason which caused the so-called failure which you see?
Since you do see this as a failure, can you think of one aspect of God which might just come to mind - one thing which might appear to be actually moral in nature?
Style? My criticism had nothing to do with style.
Your kidney analogy is a good one except that you forget that God himself make the kidney fail in the first place.
Hiding behind the stupid Trinity concept is not intelligent. The Father still sent the son which is quite wrong and shows a cowardly Father.
“Can you name the moral reason which caused the so-called failure which you see?”
Yes, it is an insult to nature which seeks to have the older die out before the offspring.
Regards
DL
Greatest I Am
According to scripture, it was love for God’s children which caused him to send His Son ~ another chance since the gates of the Garden of Eden having been closed because of Adam and Eve’s disobedience.
How is it God’s fault? Why do you look at it as the Father “making the the Son fail”?
Why would He send him in the first place? To tease his children? This is no different than how we like to blame others for our own faults of omission and our own lack of responsibility. God sent his son and many rejected him but many accepted and followed him. We cannot really look on a God as having failed. How long has Christianity flourished?
The Trinity is very difficult to understand. I used to like to think of it as One person with multiple or three personalities/characters. I would hardly call it stupid though it is so enigmatic. I think it is a human trait to call things which we do not understand as stupid. Some might call these things mysteries.
…
[b]These men—Basil, bishop of Caesarea, his brother Gregory, bishop of Nyssa, and Gregory of Nazianzus—were all “trained in Greek philosophy” (Armstrong, p. 113), which no doubt affected their outlook and beliefs (see “Greek Philosophy’s Influence on the Trinity Doctrine “).
In their view, as Karen Armstrong explains, “the Trinity only made sense as a mystical or spiritual experience . . . It was not a logical or intellectual formulation but an imaginative paradigm that confounded reason. Gregory of Nazianzus made this clear when he explained that contemplation of the Three in One induced a profound and overwhelming emotion that confounded thought and intellectual clarity.
“ ‘No sooner do I conceive of the One than I am illumined by the splendor of the Three; no sooner do I distinguish Three than I am carried back into the One. When I think of any of the Three, I think of him as the whole, and my eyes are filled, and the greater part of what I am thinking escapes me’ ” (p. 117). Little wonder that, as Armstrong concludes, “For many Western Christians . . . the Trinity is simply baffling” (ibid.). [/b]
ucg.org/bible-study-tools/b … y-doctrine
As a Mom, I can understand the emotional human side of what you are saying but I couldn’t say that it was a cowardly act. People just look at it from a human perspective instead of a supernatural one. I could not begin to even imagine sending my son or daughter to take my place where they might be hurt or killed.
But we have to look at it from the ad continuum Story of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (who was also sent to do the work of the other two (I think).
I think that you meant to say to have the *offspring die out before the older. Yes?
Anyway, this is all myth to me now. There was a time when I believed all of this but I can still talk about it. The way I look at it though, Christ was not sacrificed without his own personal okay in the matter. lol His will was not taken away since his will was actually one with the father’s. Being equals as part of the Trinity, he could not have been coerced or lied to.
What I was trying to get at was the idea of free will. Evidently, there were some who accepted Christ and some who did not.
My thinking may be wrong here but if all had accepted Christ then that might prove the lack of free will.
What could God have done? Created us all as puppets with one mind as with the Borg after the Fall?
Did God make a mistake, considering what happened in the Garden, in allowing humans to retain their free will?
I’d say God’s logic goes: hell exists for people that deserve it.
It would be imperfect to not be able to discipline sinners.
Apparently sin is part of perfection.
Perhaps because perfection is not found in meekness and obedience but in making things right.
You need things to be wrong for that.
i view it more as mysandry. God being some facist tyrant who refuses to acknoledge satans lesbian marylyn manson desires. Satan says, I want to worship the females u made, refuses to worship god, her hubby, God, her angry hubby, sends the dark lord to hell in a facist heartless manner.
michalengo has pent up resentment for dudes, he just feels used by countless dudes in a homosexual manner
[size=85]lord satan, sad, lurking on the internet, spending time surrounded in darkness and void, the bottomless pits of internet forums, the place known as ‘Sheol’, as punishment of condemnation[/size]
[size=85]lord satan, turned insane from all the bitter abuse.[/size]
human beings dont jack off to gay porn first. they jack off to lesbian porn first, and slowly as they lose faith in the female purity they migrate to gay porn.
Telling people that they need to jack off to gay porn first, in order to be “saved” by the lesbian porn later, is fucked up.
Everyone knows that smelling ass, before dinner, does not make the dinner taste even better.
You asked “How long has Christianity flourished?”
From the day they used Inquisitions and murder to put their religion at the top of the garbage heap.
You seem to think Christianity should be praised for murder.
I will let you go ahead with that.
As to God having to base Christianity on barbaric human sacrifice, like he had no moral ways to do it.
Only the foolish will think they can speak for the thinking in the supernatural world.
I will let you do so. Do not expect respect for that though.
Regards
DL
Yet it is the same discipline for all offences, be they small or large.
Only those who do not care about injustice or their corrupted morals will praise God for him immorality.
Regards
DL
Yet Christianity demand obedience and Islam demands submission.
It seems that they do not agree with you.
Regards
DL
Greatest I Am,
What is it that you believe in? What religion, what organization? Are there any terrible abuses which have been committed by people seeking terrible power and control there, people wanting to do things their own way, according to their own belief systems?
What you described is not the Christianity which Christ supposedly founded. There are good and evil people everywhere.
There is good within Christianity and then again there are those rotten apples.
Even good thing can become corrupted.
This was not God. Again, it was the people according to their culture and their beliefs. These things happened long before Christianity came into existence. See, this the problem with religion and belief systems. We tend to create a God into our own image and likeness. Aside from that, perhaps we are just too fearful to recognize what we human beings are capable of doing to one another and so we blame God instead of blaming a warped psyche like those who are sadistic and enjoy inflicting hurt and blame on others because we cannot understand.
Personally, I am agnostic and I do not see things the way in which you or others see them.
How much real thinking actually goes on in the supernatural world, I wonder.
The word respect means to go back and take another look. We all need to do this often especially when our thinking does not meet up with our feelings and what we seem to see.
Actually they do.
Redemption is big in both religions, as is ferocious fighting to the death.
But even if they would not agree, why is that important enough to mention to me?
Does that make me wrong?
Are they god?
I dont know what religion you refer to but thats certainly not Christianity or Islam.
Both have a whole hierarchy of differentiated sin.
Aww.
You know what? God doesn’t exist.
Who the hell watches porn for its purity?
I don’t agree with the rest either, but those are all non-issues. Prostitution and purity together is an interesting concept.
There is much to be said for what I think Duterte said, that a prostitute is better than a politician, as she will get to work when she gets paid, and a politician certainly will not. The average prostitute has merit, the average politician or the average banker certainly has not, and they gobble up a lot more money.
Sure, there are good people in all evil organizations.
The S. S. and KKK had good people in them, even though good people would not call themselves S.S. or KKK.
"What is it that you believe in? What religion, what organization?
I am a Gnostic Christian. I follow their ideology of freedom of thought and being an esoteric ecumenist.
We do not believe in the idol worship of even a real God should one pop up some time.
Regards
DL