Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?

South Park is the authority on Christian dogma. I did not know that.

You learn something new every day.

Do you see Christian dogma being otherwise than what is shown?

If so, lay it out for us.

Regards
DL

In christianity both punishment and reward are extremes.
Eternal life with anything you could want forever is heaven to them.
Hell is eternally subject to what we don’t want.

Eternal punishment but also eternal reward.

Okay, in the spirit of “gaining an education” and “gaining knowledge”:

Fundamentalist Protestants believe that the dead remain dead until the Last Judgement. That hasn’t happened, therefore Adam and Eve are not being punished.

Catholics and Orthodox Christians believe that, after the Resurrection, Jesus went to hell and released Adam and Eve and they ascended to heaven. Although not quite saints, they are ‘almost’ saints. Their Feast Day is December 24.

If all hell is is pure punishment, which it is, without purpose, do you not think that only an evil and twited AGod would punish without a purpose?

Regards
DL

You have to ignore a lot of gnashing of teeth type scriptures to believe as you do.

Most fundamentalists believe in a Satan so I cannot agree with your views as they tend not to believe the way Jews do.

As to Catholics. I came out of that tradition and do not believe recall A & E ever being released and if what you said was true, they would not have been in hell but in the grave to begin with.

I do not know where you want to go from here.

Regards
DL

Then show the scripture that says Adam and Eve are in hell.

It has nothing to do with Satan. It’s about what they think the Bible says happens after a person is dead. And it’s not “my view”.

For Catholic and Orthodox Christians, Adam and Eve were in hell until Jesus released them. (Admittedly they are in their graves in some depictions of the event. In either case, they are not being punished now.)

orthodoxwiki.org/Adam_and_Eve

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a … 22a5p1.htm

I provided you with the answer to your question, so I guess the thread is finished.

“Is the ongoing punishment of Adam and Eve justifiable?”

They are not being punished.

The Vatican??

The first thing the lying clergy will tell you about God is that he is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways.

Then they start reaming of the many things they fathom of the unfathomable, know of the unknowable and how they have unravelled his mysterious ways.

That indicates that they are obviously lying. Right?

The Catholics also use baptism to cleans our dirty and condemned baby souls and keep them out of hell. Adam and Eve were never baptised.

Psalm 51:5 “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.”

Regards
DL

Do you think their punishment was justified in the first place?

Regards
DL

Yeah, the Vatican - the source of Catholic dogma.

Catholicism - the largest Christian sect, consisting of half of all Christians.

That’s not what the Catholic Church says. It’s there in the Catechism :

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/a … p1s1c1.htm

Jesus took them out of hell. I already explained that.

My question was on justice of one issue. I do not plan to jook at all the supernatural foolishness withing the Christian doctrine.

Do you think their punishment was justified in the first place?

Regards
DL

God told them not to eat that fucking fruit. They disobeyed and they got punished. Actions have consequences. End of lesson.

It’s a creation story. I don’t obsess over it.

If you’re going to discuss it then at least use correct Christian dogma.

So you think a child disobeying and eating a fruit deserves death and hell for it.

Wow.

Are you a parent?

I am not obsessed with this story but do you not recognize that the Eden story has been used to discriminate against women without a just cause from it’s inception?

Regards
DL

LOL.

Adam lived to age 930. Eve’s age at death is unknown.

Now, Adam and Eve have eternal life in heaven.

What’s the problem?

Shifting the goalposts?

930 years to fools, as compared to what if God had not murdered them by locking away the tree of life?

Regards
DL

Ah, the first example of entitlement. :evilfun:

Adam and Eve did not seem to have that attitude but you appear to think that they should have.

I doubt Christian dogma says they were murdered, since murder is wrongful killing and dogmatic Christians tend to NOT view God as doing things that are wrong.

It’s a little unclear what is meant by the tree of good and evil, since when those two categories were presented in a phrase back then it was a trope meaning everything.

I am not a big punishment advocate, but I suppose I can imagine scenarios where I would be angry at my children for finding out things I told them not to - perhaps around privacy issues or if the information was too adult for them (violent, say, especially combining sex and violence) or had to do with things I thought they were not ready to handle or I wanted to have a careful stepwise introduction of the knowledge or consult with my wife first. Given that the knowledge made them ashamed, I suppose their might be exposure to things that could be called knowledge I would want my children to stay away from - anything that made my children feel ashamed of themselves or their bodies - perhaps because they did not have the tools to interpret and place in context whatever this information was - I would not want them to come into contact without some parental guidance. And since I had told them not to - go online to specific websites or whatever - sure, I might do something punitive, especially if it was part of a pattern of not listening to me or us.

I find the whole Eden story quite open ended in terms of interpretation. Fundamentalist Christian interpretations are often pretty offensive. What the actual story is trying to get across, I don’t know and scholars seem to have different opinions. I feel a giant shrug.

Many do just end in shrugging their shoulders and ignoring the story.

many do not want to recognize how this myth has been used by Christianity to enhance and advance their ability to apply and teach their homophobic and misogynous policies.

For evil to grow, all good people need do is not call B.S. on Christianity’s interpretation.

Regards
DL