I think in the above there is a mixed up of perspectives and thus conflations and equivocations.
To put into perspective, the above issue fall into the main set of ‘representations’.
The point is representations can be presented in terms of;
A.Mental
a mental thought
an idea
a concept
words
an ideology B. Physical
an physical image [pictures, etc.]
graven image
human being [heroes, celebrities etc.]
From the above idols general refer to the physical and within religion and spirituality refer to graven images. Thus literally idols are one type of representation but not all representations are idols.
When the scriptures warned against idol worshipping, the reference is to representations that are physical ONLY and not to mental representations.
The point here is when Christians and Muslims are accusing others of idolatry they don’t realize they are also idolaters in the sense of their own use of images, statues and physical objects [e.g. Kaabah re Muslims, crosses, etc.].
Fundamentally a non-theist or atheist will just say ‘I am not a theist’ and this is a reliance of mental representations using words and sentences. This is merely a statement and is not even an ideology or an organized set of beliefs like theology or political beliefs.
Thus non-theists cannot be idolaters in any near sense to real idolaters who supposedly idolize physical representations ,i.e. graven images.
Agnostic like yourself may not be an idolater, but you are a representationalist who rely on an ideology [mental -5].
At best, we can say, theists, agnostics and non-theists rely on representations where some representations are idols while others are not.
So both theists and non-theists are representationalist, i.e. some theists are idolater-representationalist or ideological-representationalists, and non-theists are merely words-representationalists.
What kind of an idolater are you?
The way that I look at it, we all, in a sense, idolize something or someone ~ not just the Christian, Muslim, et cetera.
I idolize the stars, the trees, the ocean and its waves…
If a Christian or a Muslim or any spiritual person loves his/her god, that is not necessarily being an idolater.
It may simply be about having a relationship with Something or Someone thought to be greater than one’s self and finding meaning and perhaps service within that.
What makes an idolater depends on how extreme or fanatical one is and how that influences one’s behavior.
I think that it is a question of degrees.
Let us not go throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Again, what is it that you idolize? What brings out the idolater in you?
Aside from all of that, the only real thing perhaps which I see as pure idolatry is kneeling in front of a !statue! ~ it does not matter what statue ~ and praying to it, as if the statue itself was the real embodiment of who is being prayed to.
That is like a superstition to me, kind of magical thinking and behavior. I do realize that sometimes these statues are just to be used to maintain one’s focus on who is really being addressed but I can greatly suggest that these idolaters are praying to cold, hard formed material, though beautiful forms, without even realizing it.
If you keep things simple, my point is easier to see.
If you do not put whatever thinking system you follow, your ideology, as your idolized ideal, then what system do you think is better and why are you not thinking that way?
Theism that put’s man above God, I think is the way to go, which is basically what was going on before Christtians and Muslims began reading their myths literally.
Have a look at how much more intelligent things were before literalism.
Be it a statue or whatever mental picture a person forms of his God or ideology, it is the thinking pattern/ideology which is idolized. The various groups mentioned in the O.P. all hold fast to their ideologies and are thus idol worshipers.
“What kind of an idolater are you?”
The kind that might not be an idolater in the real sense of that word.
My ideal and ideology tells me to take what I have, raise the bar of excellence and seek anew. In that sense, Gnostic Christians cannot ever be satisfied or be idol worshipers as we are never satisfied and always looking to dethrone our God and replace him with a better one.
I guess one could see that as my idolizing my ideology, of not idolizing my ideology, as it should be seeking to evolve to something better.
Please follow that link just above to get a better picture of my thinking.
Well, at least we got rid of that idolatry issue and now we have moved on to a new idea: worshiping is bad. New thread?
Worship meaning
and so…
and
Sounds terrible.
Who is this ‘they’`?
Me personally, I am not a big fan or worshipping, not because respecting and loving are bad but because one is told what to feel, rather the feeling coming naturally from the relationship. That’s me.
There just may be a lot of truth within that but would it actually matter?
Human beings probably evolved to have no choice but to worship. We realize our imperfections/frailties, smallness (for lack of a better word) and having something or someone to worship raises us above our picayune natures to where we come to be in relationship with whatever we experience as being the sublime.
Love, Lust, God, Worship probably all from the same part of the brain (?) ~ we are powerless to transcend them but do we have to soar so high and would it not be a wise thing to choose in a more harmless way?
All of those concepts and images, real or imaginary, are stored in our minds. That makes them a part of our ideals and ideology. All worship their ideologies and hold it as our greatest ideal in thinking.
Love, worship, adore are all synonymous. We love ourselves and our ideologies, which is good, but we are allowing it to go to idolatry if we have a fixed ideology.
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love is a precursor to adoration and worship and are synonymous to idolatry.
The worship you give God you are also told to give yourself.
If you follow Jesus, you will love and worship yourself and that is why we are all idolaters.
If Jesus is a good man to you, then you will try to love and adore the ideology you follow.