2 months--no drugs or alcohol

I’ve always seen you, gib, as a Peter Pan character: a boy who refused to grow up, and Wendy? Well Wendy is Wendy

Yes, that interpretation’s crossed my mind too. Except I think if Wendy can help me with astral projection, she’ll be the one in the lead.

BTW, I remember you saying you’ve astral projected too. Want in on this?

Yeah Chakra, contribute lots more. I could swear that I asked you for more about your astral experiences ages ago.

Thanks for the invite but I think you and Wendy should do this alone. If you’re successful then you might consider adding another person but at the start, I’d suggest you keep the complications to a bare minimum. It’s a skill, not magic and it takes a lot of concentration and control. The fewer distractions, the better.

FTR: I’ve only travelled with one other human and that wasn’t planned. It was with one of my brothers when we were kids. We only realized it when he mentioned a weird dream he had with me in it and I told him I had the same ‘dream’. Our recollections were identical then, some time later, after gaining some astral projection (AP) experience I realized that the ‘weirdness’ was the energetic astral body and realm. The energetic body is quite different from the mental dream ‘body’; it’s more vibrant, more alive.

I did try to ‘rendezvous’ with someone when I thought it would be a good idea to sneak into a girls bedroom a couple of houses down (I was about 15, I guess ). On thinking that, I felt a thud and found myself back in my body. It wasn’t punishment or guilt. It was simply because what I desired was a bodily desire so… BAM!!! Back to the body. You get the body to meet your desires. Damn!!!

It will be interesting to see if guys can pull this rendezvous off.
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Mmmm… you may have?…. I tend to disappear for a while then forget where I was… sorry ‘bout dat. I wrote a lot about astral projection on ILO but now it’s all gone. I wish I had kept copies….

OK, got that out of my system…. where were we? Oh, yeah, there were some awesome AP experiences – and terrifying one’s, too. I’d love to share them. All of them are fascinating and one of them – if it can be called an AP? It may have been a reverse AP – anyway, it still blows my mind to this day. I still don’t know what to make of it. It was witnessed by half a dozen friends so I know it happened. I just don’t know what it was.

Anyway, I’ll do my best with the fragments of time I have… Enjoy your travels and be sure to ask questions and take notes. If anyone asks about me, tell them you don’t know me. It wasn’t me who pinched the flower fairy’s bottom or cheated on the magick powers test. Honest

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Pretty volatile stuff, huh?

You dirty, dirty boy.

I’ll let you know.

Please do!

What exactly did they witness?

Your secret’s safe with me. But I can’t speak for Wendy (I hear she’s a snitch, but only if you get on her bad side ).

Yep, the astral world is an energetic world. Forms, time and space are very sensitive to thoughts and emotions – one rises and falls in direct proportion to one’s state of mind.

I’d rather share the story in context because what we saw came at the end of an experience that lasted 6 weeks… but the elevator version is: a purple mist appeared on the lounge room ceiling where a group of friends and I were sitting. We just froze and watched the mist grow in size and slowly creep down the walls. When it got about a foot from my head, I had an urge to touch it so I raised my arms and flattened my palms as if I was trying to stop it from moving any further but it just kept going… pushing my hands back as it advanced… then one of the girls freaked out. She screamed her lungs out and totally lost it. The mist disappeared in a flash.

I thought the mist was pushing my hands back down but the others told me that I (I guess my astral/energetic body?) was actually rising up out of my physical body and began to enter the mist. They had seen it. I had no idea I was moving; I thought the mist was moving.

Not only did the others witness it but the girl that freaked out was an atheist and a super sceptic when it came to anything supernatural. She’d be the first to call bullshit if someone told her that a mist appeared on the ceiling blah, blah, blah… so it was even more convincing that a disbeliever saw it.

I contacted her about a decade or so after the incident and when I broached that episode (which was why I tracked her down), she suddenly got up from the table and told me not to talk about it again. It really disturbed her that much. Anyway, I’ll leave it at that.

Good luck with your travels. Send us a postcard when you get there.
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Meeting up? When did I say that we’re meeting up in the astral world, gib? My goal is to teach you the steps I followed to get out of my body.

I don’t think I said we’re meeting up. Where did you read that?

Oh, my bad. I thought your eventual aim was to see if you could rendezvous on the astral plane. I don’t know why I assumed that? Sorry 'bout dat. As you were.

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gib,

I do not want to be harsh here but please tell me how ALL of that has served you over the years in wanting to end your addictions?
Does having direct access to certain things necessarily mean that we utilize that knowledge or experience?

I have absolutely no experience with your children!

This is true. That would beg the question, gib? Are you wasting my time and energy in here by lying? Am I responding at times to lies? I am NOT saying that you are.

So are you saying that your addictions do not affect your children?
As for the first part, you do have a point. My situation with my mother was different, hopefully, where it counts than yours with your children. But it was about how your lifestyle CAN affect your children.
I hate to be an absolutist but I am sure that it has in ways. I was going to ask you: “Am I wrong”? but you do not have to answer that. Have you reflected on the ways in which your addictions have affected your children?

I know that it makes me biased in some ways (I examine them) but in others I see things which those who were not raised or influenced by alcoholics CANNOT see. They are also biased from lack of information and experience. They tend to make judgment calls based on their more or less normal lives.

Again, how has that ability served you? Do we at times not squander our talents?

No. That is not what I meant. But perhaps change our brain patterns by simply letting things go more and more. I realize that this is not easy ~ it is a process. It can be a challenge but each time will get easier.
If we have to defend our values to others, do we really believe that they are so worthy and meaningful? It is just a question.
I am not saying here that if our way of life and personal freedoms are in jeopardy we do not defend them. That we do.
Maybe you will define what YOU mean by values - an example? Have I insulted your values?

Ah, intelligent and wise words and thoughts. I do hope that you will take the above to heart in fighting your addictions, take the bull by the horns and dropping him to his knees. (I love animals though).

What I still do not understand is this July 1st thing. Why put off what can begin now?
Why postpone it? Where is the best place to begin? NOW.
Perhaps this is being nosy and you do not have to answer it but are you sober NOW and drug free? If you are waiting, then I just do not get it. There is no magic in July 1st.

Sitting on it would only STOP its flow. Perhaps another question that has gray areas.

I think that there is a difference between happiness and the constant need for pleasure ~ hedonism. I think that even animals enjoy their contented moments without needing more. Let us not denigrate the poor animal. Might it all not come down to balance?!

Could you be content in a world where your life had meaning, you know that it had great meaning for you and others, but at the same time it never made you happy ~ if that is even psychologically possible. I kind of intuit that it is.

lol This made me really laugh. I imagined that while you were walking, you were being literally stoned - and yet you kept on walking. That might be a good image to put into your mental toolbox. LOL

Aside from that, that is a shame. You have no idea what you miss then. Be Sober, Silent, Watchful and Walk.

There is none.
It is always such a process, isn’t it, letting go of things physically and emotionally which we are so used to? Anyway, I do believe that coffee is served in AA meanings.

How do you know that their response is the right response if you are being a tad too judgmental with yourself and less judgmental/observant with them. Is a quick response necessarily the right or best response? These people may not necessarily be real. Or they may simply be Irish and have the gift of gab.

Ever heard of those things called *New Year’s resolutions? lol
Well, just as long as you Yourself are in the driver’s seat, not the intentions.
What else will help you put these intentions into action?

IKYK ~ but I will not be the one getting bumped gib. It would be you ~ your Self.

No, gib. Really not so much at all. And what is there to be proud of in that? BUT if something can work, use it. AA is known to work.

It is not shameful to me. But I do find it to be really impractical not to use a tool that can work. I think your use of the word shameful might just be a projection on your part, gib. :-"

I asked you this question before. At what point will you give yourself that pat on the back?

No, not at all. I just do not want to say anything that might actually discourage you though in reality a part of me would like to discourage your island attitude here. But I do believe that your ego and pride is getting in your way.
Basically, this is your own life and no one can live it for you.

But it was YOU yourself who used the word vanity. Humility is needed on your journey into sobriety, gib. Those with addictions have been there…are there. They know the pitfalls. AA would also give you a sponsor.

I would think that as an addict in recovery, the focus would be to try to plant both feet firmly on the ground ~ not to want to soar through the ether. I certainly can understand the ecstasy of soaring but there needs to be more balance and do you not think that in your case you might just stay away from soaring since it seems to be so important to you - or maybe I am wrong.

Is that awesomeness about yourself or about others?
Do you hear the Weeping Willow shout out to the world: “Look at me. I am so awesome?” It does not have to do anything except just BE.

Page attention to No. 5 especially.
myrkothum.com/the-5-most-eff … rgy-level/

Why do you seem to be in such a hurry for everything?

For instance? Anything pressing?

What do you mean by to improve myself? Are you still drinking and taking drugs? Still waiting?
I am not even sure how to respond to the second part of that, gib. If the answer to my question is Yes, then the first thought which comes to me is IDIOCY! I cannot know though unless you tell me so.

Joseph Campbell said that “A hero is someone who has given his or her life to something bigger than oneself.”
Do you think that focusing on your sobriety and staying clean from drugs would fit here? I certainly DO.

Williams James said and I have always loved this saying: “The greatest use of a life is to spend it on something that will outlast it.”
Getting sober and addiction free and staying that way ~ just consider what that can do to and for your children and yourself.

Or are you waiting to save some damsel in distress from a mugging or a rape and having your picture in the paper? I have a feeling that the “real” heroes do not count themselves as such.

It is not a question of what I want. I am just in here suggesting things to you. I really do not want to step over any lines here.
What I would suggest is that you do both in harmony at the same time. No time like the present.
It seems to be that you are not being that whole-hearted about it if you are indeed waiting until July 1st to STOP. I see no logic nor practicality in that but maybe that is just me. Perhaps others in here can see where you are coming from.

After all, this is not the same thing as one saying that he/she will wait until after the holidays to go to a gym.

Maybe you need to think much further backwards in time. The drugs are a symptom of perhaps what came before…and before that…and before that. You might also look at it as some kind of panoramic map…aside from your chronic conditions.

So are you saying that it is highly unreasonable and unlikely that those who do not have your conditions, are not addicted to alcohol and drugs, cannot be capable of experiencing self-doubt at times? I would say that it comes with being human and recognizing that we are after all, not perfect specimens. Perhaps I am must misunderstanding what you are saying.
Is your self-doubt a chronic condition, always there, always threatening to take you over? Is it due to a chemical unbalance? I am ignorant where your chronic conditions are concerned so I will not say anything else about that. Yes, a therapist would be good for you ALSO.

One can say that about everyone, no? A whole mess of things, like the molehill into the mountain, leading to self-doubt. I may very well be wrong here. Again, I know almost nothing about your conditions so I have no right to speculate.

Perhaps the wife who still loves the man and will stand by him AS LONG AS he is seeking help for himself. Otherwise, why be an enabler and a masochist?

I am not so sure that that would be mentally, emotionally or physically healthy for either party.
By struggle, do you mean trying to get and to be sober?

Why would the game change then, gib? Do you think that after July 1st you will not be struggling? Well, I do remember some ways back you said that you realize that it would only be an attempt. Perhaps a better way to look at it would be to think: “One day at a time”. That works for many situations in our lives.

But yes, perhaps some kind of woman within your surroundings might be there for you as long as she sees you are doing everything possible to get clean and stay clean.
If you look for a mother figure or a nurse-maid, you will both be doomed.

You would have to be really careful - to make sure that any relationship was not a substitute for what you are giving up. That could get very messy and become detrimental to your sobriety.
What is your main focus to be?

What is the tattoo and what is its symbolism? I do not get it. That does not mean that there is none though. lol

Feel free to take your time answering this post. I am really swamped.

While that wasn’t the point of this branch in the discussion, I can confidently say that it has served me in wanting to end the addiction. This thread wouldn’t exist otherwise.

Absolutely I have! I think I’m a terrible roll model, that I need too much recovery time (napping while my kids play on their ipads), that my caffeine crashes cause me to be grouchy and “not fun” while my kids are expecting more energy out of me, that the money I spend on booz could be spent on my children… oh yeah, I’ve thought about this plenty.

However, I do want to say I don’t think it’s leading to abuse or childhood trauma. I only have my experiences with seeing my kids, how they act, what they say, how they seem to feel about various things, but based on this experience, I can honestly say, I think they’re growing up healthy, happy, smart, doing good in school, healthy social life, and I know they feel comfortable around their dad, I know they feel loved (my daughter is constantly jumping into my arms, wanting me to play video games with her, sleep with her at night)… but I know I could be doing better, I know I could be doing more to contribute to their already thriving lives.

If I didn’t have the intention to quit on July 1, I think the shit might hit the fan once they become teenagers. My daughter’s already old enough to understand the pros and cons of drugs (and she knows her dad’s a druggie… I’ve had plenty of talks with both kids), but I’m not sure if she understands the stigma that comes along with that. When she becomes a teenager, however, I’m sure the thought of being the daughter of a druggie alcoholic father would fill her with shame; she’d be afraid to admit it to her peers (or to anybody) and this might have effects on her self-esteem (she might even be teased harshly if her peers found out). I think it’s good, therefore, that I’m deciding to quit at this point in my life.

Can we just chock it up to: no one is impartial, but we all have different experiences to contribute?

The point was to show in what ways I can be impartial about myself. Intrapersonal intelligence helps you to know yourself, not to keep you off addictions.

Well, if I felt that was my only option (like I get caught up in frustrated and agitation every time I get into a heated debate with someone), I might have to consider it seriously, but it’s not. I feel that I’m quite capable of standing up for my values and my beliefs in such a way that I’m usually satisfied with my delivery. And again, I do sometimes let things go. Options, not obligations.

Well, it’s an interesting question. I think the answer is yes: we are driven by some inner compulsion to defend our values because we feel they are worthy and meaningful. But I suppose what you’re asking is: do we really have confidence in our values? I think in the one direction, lack of confident in the values you try to uphold can lead to more defensiveness when someone attacks those values, but I don’t think it necessarily works the other way around: that if you defend your values against attacks, it means you lack confidence in them. Like I said, I think it’s a natural response. It’s like an army trying to attack a city fortified by walls. If these walls are made of wood, it wouldn’t be that hard for the army to break through, and so the citizens of the city will put extra effort into fighting the army off. But even if the wall is made of stone, the citizens wouldn’t just lay back and say: meh… we have a stone wall, they’ll never get through. Usually, the common sense response is to fight them off regardless.

Now, you’re sitting there trying to convince me: if you really believe in the fortitude of your stone wall, what’s the point in engage in war when the bloodshed and pain is so not worth it? And you might be right. The attacking army may just wear itself out attacking an impenetrable barrier. Why not just let that happen. But my point is: that’s not the way the human brain works. Defending yourself against attackers is typically the better strategy regardless of how strong your defenses are, whereas sitting back and ignoring the attack is not (at least, in the grand evolutionary scheme of things). But again, this is evolution’s strategy, not a rational argument I’m putting forward for why I shouldn’t just let certain issues go… I’m just saying it’s natural of the human brain and need not indicate lack of confidence in my value.

At first, yeah, but now I just find you annoying. No, I will not give you an example.

THANK YOU, ARC!!! Nice to see some encouragement from you.

There is some psychological “magic”, at least for me.

Look Arc, I don’t have a good enough reason for you to be satisfied with my plan to quit July 1. It’s just part of the plan as I’ve designed it, and since I have confidence in the plan, I don’t want to change it.

It’s like giving my kids 5 minutes before bed time. They accept it far more readily when they’re given a 5 minute warning than when I barge in on their play and tell them: bed time, now!!! ← That’s pretty much it.

The last 2 month stint was intended to be just that: a stint, not the moment when I finally quit all drugs and alcohol. Ergo, I allow myself a short period of a few months after that stint before I officially quit.

No, it’s pretty black and white. Sitting on it is often the best way to come to a sound and wholesome answer.

Sure it’s possible, but GYAWD!!!

Spoken like someone talking out of their ass. You really think I’ve never taken a walk sober?!?! I have both experiences, you only have the one. You get the same experience except the beauty and peace is 10 times amplified. You’re not in a position to claim sober walks are better than stoned walks.

Geez, maybe I shouldn’t go then. You do realize caffeine is one of the drugs I intend to quit (might even say it’s my worst drug). Is there a CAA? Caffeine Addicts Anonymous?

I’m not counting on there being any substitutes that will actually match the caliber/potency of the drugs and how they make me feel, but I am holding out hope that maybe there are ways to feel like I’m on just one cup of coffee. The usual three cups on my “caffeine days” is something I’m going to have to be okay with giving up. ← I think I can do that. I just need enough of a substitute to feel like my life is “not dull”.

I know this: I know those who are truly successful in life are those who can think on their feet, those whose brains know how to come up with quick responses and the right responses. By “right” response, I mean responses that have effects on people, responses that influence people in the way the responder wants to influence them, responses that gain them respect. I’ve seen it happen, I know it works. If I stand any chance of making a successful business for myself, I’m going to have to learn this skill. I also know that I gain this ability when I caffinate myself, and a bit of alcohol helps to loosen the flow of the interaction; I find people are more impressed with me when engaging with them in these states, more readily inspired by what I say to them. Of course, I’ve also experienced how this impression others get from me tends to degrade with too much caffeine or alcohol, so it typcially works with moderate amounts only. Hopefully, how moderate these amounts are is within the range of possibilities capable of a sober brain.

What is this, a job interview?

Oooo, you’re profound!

No, it’s known to not work.

Of course it’s a projection on my part; I’m projecting how I think you feel about it (and exaggerating to get a response from you).

What I’ve been trying to tell you about AA is that it’s incompatible with the approach I’m taking. You’re assuming it’s just something to add to the list, but what I’m saying is that it works against my approach. I’ll leave it to your imagination to figure out why.

July 1.

Arc, you’re just used thinking of addicts and alcoholics as being incapable of quitting on their own. That’s the stereotype (and usually true). What would it mean if I succeeded? Would it mean that your mother had no excuse? That you can no longer think of it as a disease?

Yippy!!! A sponsor!!!

Yeah… you are. Typically, the argument goes like this: you’re using the drugs as a crutch. Therefore, what you need to do is find healthy alternatives (like taking a walk). But you seem to think even that is unethical. To you, it seems, one only lives a worthwhile life if one lives in self-deprivation–like an ascetic–enduring dullness rather than seeking excitement. I wonder if this is a remnant of your Catholic upbringing… you know, being meek, humble, downtrodden, anti-ego, self-flagellating.

Can a weeping willow run a business?

Yeah, #5 was the only one that didn’t make me laugh.

I thought July 1 wasn’t soon enough?

Yeah, but I think I’ll leave this unanswered (practicing letting go).

Oh no! It’s worse than disapproval! Arc thinks I’m an IDIOT!!!

I mean, don’t get me wrong. I’m always striving to improve myself in one way or another… I just started biking again, I constantly learning new technologies (a necessity in my line of work), my financial advisor and I are working on ways to make me more money, trying to find more opportunities to volunteer for my kids activities, and so on. But as for the drugs and alcohol… I’m just gonna wait 'til July 1.

That would certainly be nice–I wouldn’t pass up an opportunity to do so–but no, being awesome doesn’t hinge on that. I think your thinking and mine are aligned at least on this point–quitting drugs will definitely be one of the building blocks making me awesome–for myself and my kids, as you said–but there’s a lot of other examples. My sort of “go to” measure of what it is to be awesome is to be capable of running a business. Doesn’t mean I have to run a business, just get to a state (psychologically) where I feel I know I could do it if I wanted to. Another measure is: being able to influence people rather than be influenced. ← Things like that.

Well, this doesn’t hinge on you understanding. But you’re right, I’m not being whole-hearted. I’m focusing more on strategy rather than effort. Working on ways to automate the process (with psychological tricks) rather than will power (er, well, both, but more emphasis on the former). It’s like the Buddhist concept of “right effort”:

Source: thoughtco.com/right-effort-450065

This is a common misconception held by those who have never tried drugs. It’s usually taken as a foregone conclusion that the only reason a person would ever do drugs is to fill a void or to ease some pain (is that why you drink coffee?). While I can’t say that I was a happy kid at the age of 19 (when it all started), I assure you I wasn’t out looking for drugs because “I just need something to kill the pain, something to fill the void.” It was curiosity and a rebellious disregard for social norms (I was skeptical of all the warnings about drugs, thought I could try it a few times and let it go). It was only much later when I realized the things drugs could do for me, and that when it started to fill a roll in my life which later created a void that could only be filled by more drugs. IOW, it doesn’t always start with a void/pain, but can create the void/pain after extensive use.

(^ You don’t have to fight this Arc, it’s still a reason to say no to drugs.)

In any case, I know what the factors are in my life that lead to my drug use, and I know the traumas I’ve been through that lead me to become the person I am today (regardless of whether they lead to my drug use or not). I don’t have to “search deep”. Just because I don’t tell you what they are doesn’t mean I’m oblivious.

This is another common misconception. People often think they having ADD because they sometimes can’t focus. They often think they have depression because, well, they get depressed sometimes. If something shows up on the MMPI, it indicates an excessive predisposition to lacking focus, being depressed, or whatever.

Well, when I saw that on the MMPI, the idea occured to me. It’s quite possible that it could be a genetically rooted thing, or some hardwired brain disfunction. But then again, I don’t think I suffered much self-doubt until I went through a significant amount of bullying in school–I mean, everyone bullied me, even the nerds–but on the other hand, I think a lot about my mother when it comes to self-doubt–she had it pretty bad–but I also remember her telling me that she too was teased and bullied in school. So the jury’s out on this one. Whether it’s genetic, or my mom drank too much when she was pregnant with me (she didn’t), or it’s purely a consequence of the environment I grew up in (the bullying), it’s there today, and it showed up on the MMPI.

(I’m also told, by my father, that I was really treated poorly by a daycare they would drop me off at when I was too young to remember; when my dad came to pick me up one day, he found me crying in the corner, no one tending to me, shit and piss leaking out of my diaper; he got royally pissed off at the staff there and never took me back; he claims I was abused there, but I have no memory of that.)

I’m sometimes confused when people respond this way. Certainly everyone can say there is a whole mess of things that lead to them having the occasional moment of self-doubt, but when people say this, are they saying “That’s no excuse” or “I understand”? I could be taken both ways. Welcome to the club often means: you’re not special, quit complaining. But it could also mean: you’re part of the club, ergo we care for you.

But in any case, the difference between my self-doubt and that of others is mine showed up on the MMPI.

Exactly, but would such a woman have chosen such a man in the first place if she knew he was an alcoholic or drug addict? If he was going to become one? That would be one hell of a woman!

I don’t know Arc… if you read further ahead, you’ll see where I was going with this.

Um… perhaps because I don’t have to tell her I’m an alcoholic/druggie? I mean, at some point, I should probably tell her that I used to be, but to me that seems far less pressing than telling her I am an alcoholic / drug addict, and I think it comes across as far less of a turn off. In fact, it might even come across as a strength… that I was able to rise above my addictions.

In any case, the ideal woman for after July 1 would be someone who also rose above her drug or alcohol addictions–we’d have that much more in common, much more capable of understanding each other.

It’s not such a bad philosophy–this one day at a time thing–I just don’t see how it fits into my current approach. In fact, I’d worry that it could be used as an excuse to fall off the horse, to make exceptions. Today, I will do no drugs or alcohol, but tomorrow? Well, we’ll leave that 'til tomorrow (and then my unconscious takes over, planning on how to sneak a drink or a caffeine pill; maybe the excuse will be: One day at a time? Well, then surely the occasional bad day is foregivable). Believe me, Arc, I know how my mind works; it really has to be all or nothing for it to stick.

Ha! Ha! Isn’t AA like a mother or a nurse-maid? Someone else to take care of you because you can’t? I’m a full take-responsibility-for-yourself kind of guy; I don’t want to lean on crutches of any kind. I have two wonderful women in my life who I know will be supportive (other than my daughter, sisters, my X, etc.). Rita is one of them and Bertha is the other (not their real names). Both these women could have been lovers but I wasn’t interested in them that way. Still, they are great friends and we keep in touch.

You mean, in a woman? Just to be in love, and for that love to last. I say this could be a problem as a substitute for the drugs because, as I said a few times in this thread, being in love is one of the things I’d give up the drugs for. I don’t think that would be disastrous unless one day she fell out of love with me and left me. But I think that would be disastrous regardless of whether or not she was a substitute for the drugs. Being in love, and then having that torn away from you, crushes a person. I think two people being in love is not only one of the most beautiful things in the world, but one of the most healthy things in the world… and remember, I’m not after complete detachment of all worldly pleasures, but trying to nurture healthy attachments. Don’t you think being in love is a healthy attachment (I mean, assuming the other person reciprocates your love)?

I’m going to let this one go too.

Hi gib,

…You’ve got to know when to hold ‘em
Know when to fold ‘em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run
You never count your money
When you’re sittin’ at the table
There’ll be time enough for countin’
When the dealin’s done

Every gambler knows
That the secret to survivin’
Is knowin’ what to throw away
And knowin’ what to keep
'Cause every hand’s a winner
And every hand’s a loser
And the best that you can hope for is to die
in your sleep…
The Gambler

On that note, this will be my last post in here to you at least for some time. I did not want to simply ignore your latest post to me altogether. Perhaps sometime after your magical day, I shall return.

My main reason for being in here was to help you a bit, giving you some feedback, and trying to persuade you that going to AA meetings could ALSO be beneficial to you along with others things which you have decided to do after the magical date of July 1st.

I do not believe that we can go any further than we have. I think that to do so would simply be a study in redundancy at least on my side.

I have found a hyperlink which I think is pretty unbiased insofar as the pros and the cons and the in-betweens go of AA. Anyway, the bottom line here is that you do what you feel best serves you but I would consider all that the hyperlink presents.

scientificamerican.com/arti … mous-work/

The below is also an interesting article and it speaks to me (but that is just me). I think that it is a good thing to be reminded that we are not always seeing the other guy’s or girls point of view (as perhaps I was not so much seeing in your view of AA), that we (universally speaking) are not responding in a way that is more balanced and mutually beneficial to both sides. It is a really good read. I think that for the most part we realize these things but it is good to be reminded of them.

The hyperlink is in a way in response to what you wrote here:

psychologytoday.com/us/blog … d-yourself

So, I do wish you well, gib, and come July 1st, I hope that you will be doing everything in your power to work on conquering and transcending your addictions. It is a process and I think that you ARE up to the task.

Carpe Diem but not all at once nor too tightly.

Thanks for the links, Arc. I will probably read them on the weekend.

If that’s it for now, it was a pleasure troll–er, talking with you. And yes, I … sigh … did learn a thing or two from you (even if I don’t want to admit it ). In fact, you caused me to have a few more conversations with my son about my alcoholism. I asked him what he doesn’t like about it most. He said: “I don’t like when you stop at the liquor store.” “Why’s that?” I asked. “Because,” he said, “it takes to long.” I had to laugh. “You mean, it takes time out of your busy schedule?” “Yeah,” he said, “I wanna get home to play Roblox on my iPad.”

^ Well, I’m glad that’s the worst way my alcoholism is affecting him. And I hope this adds some perspective. If that’s the worst thing about my alcoholism from my son’s point of view, I don’t think they’re suffering that much. I do realize the suffering might come later… or even if it doesn’t, that my alcoholism is holding me back from being the best father I could be.

Also, there’s a few things I regret saying to you in all the foregoing (was either immature or too rude even for my tastes). For example, this:

#1 was actually the only one that made me laugh. The rest I know about, but still #5 remains the real challenge. Numbers 2 to 4 seem in my control though I don’t always have the opportunity to do them. Then I actually read through #1. I said “…oh,” and stopped laughing.

Anyway, maybe if there’s one thing I can say before wrapping up this exchange, it’s that my challenge with the drugs and alcohol has never really been about resisting urges. It’s about the excuses I give myself (it’s an ADD thing). That’s why my focus is on my thoughts and my values (reprogramming them) rather than will power (in which case I probably would need extra help). Whenever I make a solid decision to quit or abstain from drugs/alcohol, it has always stuck. Every one of my 2 month stints has been a success. Quitting smoking has been a success (though I fell off the horse once with that). And none of these come along with urges or hankerings. My resolve pretty much stomps that out. I would even go to Moxie’s on my usual Friday afternoons and Wednesday week nights on my no-alcohol stints and order something virgin plus an appi. The waitresses there are always very impressed. And you know what? It’s not even a challenge. I don’t feel I have to fight any internal urges to order a drink when I’m there. These two month stints mean something to me; the whole 5 year plan means something to me; ← It’s that which stomps out the excuses. The fact that I want it. I don’t want to quit all drugs and alcohol before July 1–which is why the excuse to just wait 'til July 1 so easily gets in there. And I’m OK with that, I’m not worried, because I know the door to all excuses will be closed and bolted tight by this plan once it comes to fruition on July 1.

So again, thanks Arc for your challenges and your contrarian personality; I know I’m an asshole who doesn’t mind being rude, but it doesn’t go unappreciated (plus it’s somewhat of an act). So I’ll talk to you after July 1 if you decide to pop in.

PS - I’m glad you think of this as “magic”. Means I will have performed a miracle on July 1. ← How much more awesome can you get!!!

July 1 is finally at the door step. I’m thinking of opting out of this. Maybe do it July 1 2019 instead… just kidding. Gonna happen tomorrow.

Last night was my last binge drinking night. Spent it mostly at the strip club. Sat down and had a drink with a really nice (and sexy) exotic dancer. She showed me their list of non-alcoholic drinks, inviting me to come back and watch her perform next weekend. I told her I’d have my kids but I’ll definitely come back some time. And I mean it! I don’t want to stop going out, doing all the things I’d normally do (which is not limited to the strippers). Maybe not as often, but I don’t want to stay cooped up at home every evening. In fact, I owe it to myself to go out. The point of this whole exercise is to learn to do the things I would normally do using booz and other drugs as a crutch. I want to be able to flirt with these strippers girls without the booz and caffeine. So I gotta go out at least once in a while.

I bought snacks for the cabby who drove me home. I gave him a choice between cheesies, a chocolate bar, and these BBQ flavored roasted bread crumbs. He took the bread crumbs.

I’ve already paid for the Dale Carnegie course (almost $2,000!!! ). Haven’t booked an appointment with a therapist yet, but I’ll do that after the weekend. It’s a long weekend. Canada Day! And I’m taking all of next week off, spending it with my kids.

Today I just rested up. Having some pizza now. Did a bit of caffeine earlier. Smoked some cannabinoids. Went for a bike ride. Will have a couple drinks tonight, then go to bed. I’m not really all that excited about tomorrow. Not really scared or happy or anything. I think it’s going to feel like an ordinary day. But I will be able to change my thinking on a whole bunch of things. For the first time, I’m going to be able to say “I am drug and alcohol free” and believe it. This is bound to change something about my self-image. And I think it’s going to free me up psychologically to want to pursue a whole bunch of things that are good for me.

As for ILP, I really don’t know how often I’ll be back here. I usually sign in once a day to check if anyone’s responded to my posts or PMed me, and I’ll probably still do that, but as far as participating in discussions, it will probably be like I disappeared off the face of the planet. The only exceptions to this is my Rick and Morty thread (which is still not done, but I’m almost there) and maybe a few PMs to some of you. But beyond that, I’m usually not motivated to post without a bit of caffeine. HOWEVER, if I succeed in finding other ways besides the drugs to find that kind of extroverted talking/thinking energy, that could change. That would be in the long run though. In the short run, my presence here will be very minimal.

I’ll poke my head in here one more time tomorrow–just to shove it your faces that I did it–and then I’ll be done with this thread. Who knows, though. I may want to report on my progress or experiences, or just some relevant thoughts, but I wouldn’t count on it.

Anyway my American friends across the boarder, please remember to pay tribute to Canada Day tomorrow. I’ll be very upset if you don’t.

Well I for one will be sad to go, and I can only say, do not make a severe cut of getting away, people leave unnoticeably, then pop in, bit really, I feel your pain and I guess can honestly say that I’ve been through it and know the problema of dependency dependency withdrawal. I never. could, so I kind of used am iron will method of using limits beyond which I can’t go beyond.

But of You must be alone while in sobriety, please except my wish of good. luck with it.

Good luck on this journey Gib… I couldn’t do it, so I wish you well.

Will DM you later… oh, and happy Canada Day.

…and I agree with Meno… try not to be a stranger ; )

Praise be to the leafs up North on their day of rapturous victory! Ah, now on this first of July your mine to mess with so don’t bounce just yet, we have astral progress to make Mr.

Thanks all for your support.

Like I said, I always pop in here to check responses and PMs, so if ever you wanna keep in contact with me, PMs are always an option.

But anyway, had me a bike ride this morning. Could have really used a cup of coffee but that’s not happening anymore. I’m feeling OK about this. No big hype going on in my mind. I thought maybe as soon as July 1 hits, it will suddenly hit me like a sack of bricks: no more drugs for the rest of your life! But no, nothing’s hit me… yet.

Now that, Wendy, is what I call a tribute! Thanks!

I’ll definitely be contacting you about astral projection, but first… need sleep.

gib,

What would be the main purpose behind your trying to astral project? Where does it bring you ~~ I mean insofar as keeping you grounded and focused on reality ~~ which is a good place for you to be now, no?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astral_projection

Where is the reality there?!

I suppose that it might give you that awesome feeling and on some level allow you to believe that you are awesome which is kind of the holy grail which you are seeking. We can talk ourselves into believing that anything is real if we need it deeply enough.
But do you not think that this is somewhat what you need to detach from?

Anyway, I wish you one day at a time, or one step at a time on your journey. Pack Light!