I wouldn’t knock nurses down just yet. I’ve encountered many nurses who had more sense and experience than the doctors under whom they worked for. In my experience some DNP/ARNPs are often even better than physicians in terms of first hand knowledge, patient care and overall medical experience (heck even some RNs). Functionally, they are now what the doctors used to be, about patient care, and not about some bureaucracy. Today, about 50% of a doctor’s job is about filling out reports and paperwork.
This is the same argument a few people I have known in the past have used. The difference is that I am happily working away and they are on anti-depressants.
You do, of course, understand that yours is a downward spiral, whereas mine is an upward one? It doesn’t matter which one you use, we all die in the end and some will ask, “Was it all worth it?” Deciding to look at the experience we call life as just a happening, and gain a positive perspective seems to me to be the only thing we can do, if we don’t want to take the negative approach and get sour over time. The fact that you can use the space between stimulus and response is a chance to use the time you have, whatever happens, before it is over. Or are you hoping that something better comes afterwards?
There is nothing like the person who shouts “nonsense” in a crowd of people enjoying themselves.
love it!
First of all I didn’t use a nazi “analogy”.
Secondly, whoever was responsible for the Holocaust is dead, and we can either learn from the mistakes or repeat it.
Thirdly, you are doing the trump thing, and saying that in nazi Germany there were good and bad people on both sides, but that isn’t the point. The point is that 6 million people were killed in concentration camps, and the world looked on.
Fourthly, the side of human nature in all of us that is usually contained was let loose and did this and should make us aware of our aptitude for order and chaos.
Probably closer to the truth than you’d think. At least sex-slaves are being valued for something. Men and less physically desirable women often enough are not, and in some this amounts in a being even more chained and helpless than someone captured to perform a sexual role. This explains plenty about existing sexual fetishes, which are all senses of belonging.
But I agree that being the frail gender necessarily makes woman the more risk-prone gender. Her capriciousness, caprice, relates to Capricorn, balancing on the sharp rock along the abysses.
She might love to let go and easily fall into someones strong arms, be safe - but it is more a gamble than she would like, almost like she is the ball in the roulette wheel.
When it’s all over, you don’t get to ask “was it worth it?” - it being over means nothing comes afterwards. Up until that point, you have to make a choice - what do you value most in life? Happiness? What is positive and negative? How can you know if you’ve not explored all the choices thoroughly enough?
I value authenticity. I would rather be as grounded in truth as possible, as interested and satisfied with my pursuit as I see fit, than happy based on ignoring logic. I don’t need anti-depressants - they are for people who haven’t followed through on the philosophy far enough. I actually find more contentment in knowing, challenging and accepting difficult truths - not a downward spiral at all.
You only think you’re using the space between stimulus and response. You can believe in nonsense to fill the gap if you’d compromise all else to feel a way that you believe is right - you were going to anyway. Perhaps there are some causes that would change this that you have yet to experience, perhaps there aren’t because either you can’t or you’re only able to want something else than truth beyond certain thresholds that you won’t cross.
What if they’re high on unicorns and rainbows? There’s more than one way to enjoy yourself, some ways might be better than others along a variety of different measures. It’s nice to see people enjoying themselves in any way, but the enjoyment is compromised by pity in many of them.
To re-connect this with the thread, I can see how people who are not perfectly reasonable might select other imperfectly reasonable people - even more than more reasonable people. There’s no objective reason to pursue reason. I, for one, am put off by unreasonableness in others, which severely impedes my chances of finding someone with whom I am happy to get to know - not nearly as conducive with sexual selection as someone who, for example, values happiness over truth. We each have all kinds of approaches, some of which are more common to one gender than the other. Whether one is more privileged than the other overall, I’m not convinced, but I do know that where one comes out on top, the other comes out on top in other areas. One way females come out on top is that they are less disposable than males, and one way males come out on top is they’re physically stronger and more aggressive. Each situation can be turned into something pretty shitty, but one being shittier in one way than another isn’t proof that one is privileged and the other isn’t.
Is there really an objective way to measure this one?
Okay, I didn’t want to pull this one, but I work with dying people. I see what holds up and I see the people asking themselves the questions in the end. I see the morons die, dejected and struggling to make sense of it all and I see the fantastic people die, who still go out on an upward spiral. There is a vast difference. What you may say is “nonsense” has been a life-long attitude, a composure and a bearing, that carries them through.
Some of these people say to me, “What is the use of knowledge, I forget so much? What will carry me through?”, and I say that it is faith. It may not be in God or the afterlife, but faith that it was worth the experience. In the end it isn’t objective truth, but experiential truth that carries you through.
Well, in the end, the male is just as frail as any other dying person. What the problem is though, is that having lived a life as an alpha doesn’t make giving it up any easier. In comparison very few males have the character to keep their composure, whereas the women are generally more impressive. There are of course all kinds on both sides, but the way we live our lives “inside”, out of view of our superficial neighbours, is the way we die.
Women can also occupy themselves better in old age, whereas males very often fall into depression, even if they have a fantastic family. There is a lot to be said for the way we hold ourselves up to life struggles, and the way we learn to cope with the insufficiencies we have.
Bravo, Bob. Quite eloquent and honest with much truth. I agree that it all comes down to faith and the composure you mentioned but is that a person’s innate essence? A quality of being that one is born as or designed with?
Am not. Regardless, your “arguments” are degenerating and deteriorating into a mess. I’ll show you how.
Women were never, ever, “deprived of equal rights and opportunities”. This is more Feminist garbage, trash ideas, pumping through your skull. You are indoctrinated, very much like a fundamentalist Christian, indoctrinated with ideals of God. The “poor, oppressed, masses!!!” BOO HOO!!! Isn’t it you painting women as weak, pathetic, victim, children? Yes, it is. Because it suits your argument. You paint women in the negative, to suit yourself and hold weight to your argument.
I, on the other hand, have a much more esteemed and positive sense of women. So, who really “hates women” here? Me? Or you???
Hint: (it’s you)
Correct, 1 victim out of 1,000,000 women doesn’t account for much. Just because one young girl is kidnapped and raped by a dozen men, doesn’t mean that female-privilege suddenly vanishes. And, aren’t you proving my point? Why is the sex-slave valuable? For her sex, yes? See, you’re proving my points again. You’re conceding the whole argument. Child-sex slaves are valuable because of their sex. So you are using the point of contention of the entire thread, to claim its opposite, and use exceptions as the rule (that all women are kidnapped into sex slavery, when in reality, only very very rare).
Pandora, you basically undermine your entire argument thus far.
Please do, as-if I’m scared of the topic?
As-if 1 in 1,000,000 females, kidnapped and raped, represent the entirety of the category? As if one raped girl represents all women? The #MeToo movement is a sham, a farce, an extension of degenerating post-modern Feminism. Feminists intentionally compare a man grabbing a woman’s ass (like the radio host did with Taylor Swift, for example), to full-scale rape, like your example, of a 12-year-old girl stolen from her home, and sent off overseas to be gang-raped. The two are oceans apart. And as long as you, and other women, continue to conflate the two (ass grab to gang-rape), then you are fucked up in the head. The two are not the same, at all.
And I full-scale reject any nonsense of you conflating the two. Thus, we may as well use “ass-grabbing” as “trampling on women’s freedom”, based on sex, of course.
The fact that you don’t question any of this, and you dive straight into it, gives me more evidence that I’m right all along.
Don’t bring me into your ridiculous fantasies, to try to prove a point, as-if the 1 in 1,000,000 exception forms a rule. How many young girls are sold into sex slavery overseas, anyway? Out of the 300,000,000 people in the United States, what percentage does it represent? Are 50% of women, 25% of the whole population, sold into sex slavery? No… 1%??? No???
0.0001% ??? Maybe closer to that.
Yes yes, men’s fault. Everything is men’s fault. We’ve gone over this point.
Even when you “concede points”, you have the habit of always blaming men. When is it ever, ever, women’s fault, for anything? Go ahead, Pandora, give me a few examples. Or one. Just one will do.
Which half?
The difference between men and women is that women have types while men do not… other than the general type preferred by most men. Show a pic of a hot woman to a group of guys and you’ll get a near-unanimous agreement that she is indeed hot. Show a pic of a hot guy (whatever that means) to a group of women and you’ll get a range of opinions from “ew” to “eh” to “oh wow”.
So when you say that half the men are rejected, I’m not sure what you mean.
For the record, the number of girls preyed on by traffickers and pimps and porn “directors”, not to mention frustrated dads and uncles and coaches and teachers is more like 1 in 7 than 1 in a million.
It is all mens “fault”.
First they killed Caesar, then his son, God.
Alpha males killed by beta males.
Thank you.
I am a INFJ, and have all of the applicable traits. I have, however, not always been a typical INFJ. I think that the degree in which we are a certain personality type depends on our orientation. We can orientate ourselves by other people, or we can orientate ourselves (this more towards old age) on internal values.
In my experience, the longer we adopt a position, attitude or stance based on such values, the more it becomes “second nature” - our innate essence. Much of what we are has been learnt by our experience in younger years, some of it is genetically predestined, but the degree to which it holds up at the end of life is dependent on what we have put our faith in, and how have we approached life.
I’ll be generous and say, the other half … 
Bob wrote
I’m really struggling to define and explain faith in another thread viewtopic.php?f=5&t=193985. Would you mind giving it a shot? “Our experience in younger years” has a different meaning to me since I have faith that we are immortal beings due to the transcendent nature of our souls. Would you be interested talking about more spiritual matters in another thread, I’m interested to read your take on souls, religion, faith, peace?
I wouldn’t bravo an appeal to emotion, this is a logical fallacy.
Don’t confuse this with a lack of empathy with those who are dying though, of course many of these people are vulnerable, and in such circumstances of course it would be forgivable to feed them nonsense if that assuages someone’s fear and unease in their most desperate moments. But you have to respect greatly those such as Christopher Hitchens who didn’t falter in his beliefs even while he knew he was dying, but I know it’s unreasonable of me to expect quite such outstanding displays of character in the vast majority who aren’t his intellectual or philosophical equal.
Children can be told stories and that Santa and the tooth fairy are real to make things more exciting for them, but that doesn’t make it true. Yes, it’s nice to dish out feel-good fantasies, but the effectiveness of this trickery on the flawed human psyche is no measure of truth, which doesn’t care how you feel.
You don’t need free will to have had a worthwhile life, sorry Bob. It’s not like all the good times and experiences suddenly go away once u realise it was all determined independently of any control you thought you had - you still live just as engagedly as you always did before. You can still feel that feeling you feel when you feel in control, it’s just put into perspective for what it really is. This is what people don’t understand when they go into this “downward spiral” you’re assuming - all experience is exactly the same, you’re just understanding it better.
Anybody ever notice how women revolve around ‘Feeling’ and emotion, never around Truth?
Have you ever met a woman who preferred harsh truth, cruelty, Reality, over fantasy?
Neither have I. Another cause/reason why women cannot ever be philosophers or philosophical. They always default to feel-good-lies over truth.
Again, Privileged Gender. Protected from the truth (by men).
One of the reasons I also have close female friends is because they are grounded in reality in ways I find men are not. I often find men to be living in what they think makes sense and are cut off from how it feels on the ground, in reality, and yes, also in emotions. Even if it is supposedly the best of all possible solutions and ‘makes sense’ I find women more willing to admit that something is fucked up, even if no one can put a finger on it, let alone solve it.
For you there is a dichotomy between truth and emotion. Around a vast range of issues, the truth involves emotion. People cut off from their emotions are crippled in relation to determining all sorts of truths. And the men I respect get this.
No, they’re not.
Women, as a whole, as a gender, are privileged, protected, and separated from reality. This fact is best represented by the lack of moral agency that women have or demonstrate. Women do not demonstrate moral agency, that women-in-general are responsible for this or that action, event, or societal occurrence. Women are ‘blameless’, ‘innocent’, never responsible for all the evil, shit, negativity, hatred, in existence.
Obviously, this is false. Women are responsible for some, or most of it. The main problem therein, is not necessarily that women are responsible for this or that social evil, but rather, that they are shielded from all forms of responsibility which would expose the very precise ways they are. So, basically, conversations never even get past scratching the surface of (female) moral agency.
Thus, women are not moral agents.
If women are moral agents, or capable of causing social events, capable of responsibility, then they would be held to very, very low standards. And this is true. Women receive a slap on the wrist, on the rare occasions they do commit a crime, compared to the exact same crime if a male commits it.
You can’t dodge around this fact and then sling the proposition “women are grounded in reality”. No. Wrong. False.
You can never be “grounded in reality” when you are the privileged, pampered, elite half of the specie.
Valued…as what? That’s like saying people who are forced to sell their kidneys to feed their families are also valued by their recipients. I mean, talk about your kind of privilege! I’m sure serial killers assign certain value to their victims, too…in their own twisted way (if only their victims could also see and appreciate that, as well). Just how self-negating does one have to be to let others define their (so called objective!) value?
. Women usually get harsher sentences for killing their (abusive) partners because their acts are usually interpreted as premeditated, whereas men’s are usually seen to occur in the fit of fury, where an actual intent to kill is harder to prove.
takepart.com/article/2015/09 … men-prison