2 months--no drugs or alcohol

Yeah, or… they can do what I’m doing.

Usually, the victim mentallity is what leads to relapse in the first place. I don’t have a victim mentality.

Now that’s hardly fair, Arc. I know you’re always eager to judge, but let’s wait 'til after July 1 to ask these questions. I’m actually right on schedule.

What the hell is that supposed to mean… where do I go from there? What, am I supposed to regret that I did it on my own according rather than go to rehab/AA? Am I supposed to reflect on the hollowness of my approach?

:violin:

So this being-an-asshole-to-everyone thing isn’t panning out so well. Most of you, I enjoy treating like shit, but then on occasion, I rip into someone whom I thereafter regret ripping into, someone like Meno_. I then get this really strange feeling that I’m not that familiar with… what is it called again? Oh yeah, guilt. I feel guilty. So I tell you all what… I’m just gonna treat you like shit if I feel like, or not if I don’t, but I’m not gonna put a concerted effort into it either way.

I think an alcohol only diet makes me down right miserable. Maybe it should have been a negative.

Why worry about it, even…?

Ever think that if your body craves it then it might be healthy at times?

Because, Mags, because… just because…

No.

You’re wrong.

…he’s being strong/exercising his willpower.

Eternal,

I’m aware of the studies that show that a glass a wine or a beer once a day is actually good for your health, but I don’t think that’s what you’re talking about; you’re talking about desires, cravings, and the only sense in which the satisfaction of those is good for you is when they’re not corrupt. Drugs corrupt your brain. They corrupt the centers for cravings and desires, detaching them from healthy things and re-attaching them to unhealthy things. So no, I don’t take my desires and cravings as necessarily indications of something healthy.

And BTW, drinking alcohol is the equivalent of drinking gasoline.

gib,

Just a question here or maybe two.

Did you at any time while you were reading my long text, the one which you responded to with a (:eusa-violin:), gain any kind of thought, insight, realization, et cetera, from my words or was your only response and reaction really only that of one playing the violin?

What do you believe or feel was the reason for that lack if you indeed received nothing from it?

The minute I realized you were speaking out of ignorance, I went into trolling mode. :eusa-violin: is trolling. It’s when I stop taking the other person seriously and start playing games instead.

But I did get something out of it; I got that you like to generalize:

You like to take your experience of your alcoholic mother and generalize to all alcoholic parents.

I am nothing like your mother… not remotely.

For example:

I would never say anything like that to my kids, or make them feel they are to blame for my own faults. In fact, I have made a promise to them both to quit drinking and doing drugs July 1 of this year. I have my kids listed as my #1 reason for quitting. Seriously, I have list; it’s stuck to the fridge with a magnet; it keeps growing (incidentally, I have: “shove it in Arc’s face” on there :smiley: ).

And just this here…

…was pure insulting. ^ That’s what clued me in that you have absolutely, positively, indubitablyNO idea what I’m doing in this thread or how this whole procedure works… even though I made it crystal clear at several points throughout this thread. But since it’s so uninteresting to you, I guess you don’t bother reading… but of course, you’re still totally qualified to post your arrogant rant about how I’m just like your alcoholic mother because, you know, all alcoholics are the same. No, no, Arc, don’t bother reading, don’t bother understanding, but please do tell us your expert opinion on my psychology and problems with addiction.

I am not seeing any sign in my children that they are suffering any trauma or hardship; they are both doing well in school, they have a healthy social life with their peers, they have big grins on their faces as they run to meet me on my weekends with them. In fact, my daughter occasionally reminds me that she wants to live with me (and I’m working towards that). My son tells me: “daddy’s nice; mommy’s mean” (I try to discourage him from talking about his mother that way, but…). Everybody who knows me thinks I’m an awesome dad. Would a dead beat parent write this for his son on his 7th birthday? Did your mother ever do anything like that for you?

My son does suffer anger management problems, and we’re seeing a child psychologist, but my x and I both agree that he was like that since he was a few days old. 7:00 PM was the witching hour for him. It was like clock work. As soon as 7:00 PM rolled around, he became completely inconsolable (it wasn’t exactly at 7:00 PM, but after 7:00 PM, the first thing to upset him would set him off on a non-stop crying marathon that only ended once he managed to fall asleep). As he grew to a toddler, young child, and now 7 years old, this inconsolable mood evolved into problems with letting things that upset him go, things that would anger him (like not getting a second dessert :laughing: ). He gets angry at the ordinary things that ordinary kids get angry at, but ever since he was an infant, he did not have the skill of letting it go. He’s learning that skill now, and in fact seems to be better at it when he’s with me during one-on-one time than with his mother or his sister.

^ I really don’t think the alcohol or the drugs are the crux of the problem here.

But in any case, Arc, if you want me to gain something from your rant, it might help if you first understood why these past five years have not just been a series of failed attempts. If you want to say I’m an egoist prick who refuses to swallow his pride, you may be onto something, but I doubt you’d understand half the reasons why that’s true.

gib,

How was I speaking out of ignorance according to you?
Granted, I cannot be a fly on the wall to see how you and your children relate to one another; how “sober” for lack of a better word you are when you are with them. So, no, I can have no knowledge of that whatsoever.
I pretty much figure that your wife would not turn over her and your children to you if you were not at that time sober. I hope not.
Yes, you are pretty good at playing the games, gib. That is why you are STILL HERE and waiting for July 1st.

My reason for relating that part of my story to you was so you might gain some insight or understanding into the mind and heart of someone who has had to deal with alcoholism, especially any child. There was no ranting whatsoever going on there, gib. I will admit that by doing that I did make myself somewhat vulnerable. Children who grow up with alcoholics or drug addicts ( a double dose there) do have scars which are capable of opening up.

You simply dismissed what I had to tell you and quite frankly I am not sure if that is not a symptom of your disease. It is a disease you know.

Arcturus Descending

No gib, that is not a generalization. The above is a fact. I had the experience and many many have had the same experience. Perhaps your children have not. I have no idea how often you see them so hopefully they have not really been so touched by your way of life. Perhaps when you do see them, you are sober; otherwise, I am not so sure your wife would allow it.
But I do know that when an alcoholic has sober moments (not as a reformed alcoholic) he/she is struggling.
Are you so sure that your addictions do not touch your children in any way?

I do not mean to be harsh here but you are addicted to both alcohol and drugs. I would suggest that you are capable of being very much like her at times.
Could I be wrong…maybe…but I do not think so.

I hope that that is true.

By July 1st? On July 1st? Why the wait? Why the postponement? Why not NOW?

Your children are how old now? Why were they not on that list before?
That is a very good incentive to quit, gib, and I hope that it really works BUT what are you going to do to make sure that it works this time? As I said, your children have been around you for quite some time now.

For the sake of your children and yourself, I certainly would not mind being wrong.

You took it as an insult. Why is that? It was meant as a challenge though and it is FACT.
After 5 years and perhaps more of “off and on” you are still treating yourself like a guinea pig and postponing the inevitable.

But it is not working, is it gib. Even now you are promising your children that come July 1st you are giving up alcohol and drugs.
How do you plan to do this? Are you going to AA meetings?
If it were that easy to just STOP by hasn’t it happened in all of this time?

Psychically speaking, they are for the most part. Only the histories and experiences may differ.

I am happy to hear that. Ask yourself a question. If your children lived with you, would you be responding in the same way?

.

So you plan to go to AA and to get help? If I were a judge, after having read this thread, I would not be giving custody of your daughter to you. Harsh again I know. I am a mean horrible person. I judge you. I have absolutely no sense of who you are. My observations are completely off the mark where you are concerned.

Only you can know for sure how drunk or stoned you are if you are which you must be since you promised your children that there would be no more of that come July 1st.

Yes that is a beautiful gift to give your child. A lot of time, energy and love went into it. At the same time, there is a gift which is far more valuable and meaningful, a gift which as your children get older, would/will appreciate far more/value far more. Your sobriety. A lot of time, energy, struggle and love will go into gaining sobriety too. Which do you think is the greater gift?

lol No, my mother was not a writer. She did have her moments which would eventually turn to dust because she could not, would not, give me the one thing which I would have valued more than anything - a sober Mom. My mother was more intent on living her life her way, even though it was miserable, highly destructive and caused pain all around.

I can greatly admire men and women who had strong addictions but got help for them, turning their life around. It takes a lot of honesty, fortitude, struggle and inner strength to overcome things like that. It also takes the right kind of self-love and self-caring.

So again, what do you consider would be the greatest gift which you could give to your son - and to your daughter?

You might have to do a lot of reading to figure that one out or talk to people who would know about it. It may be a biblical saying but remember the one - "The sins of the parents are visited upon the children? But my question to you would be: Why are you so eager to dismiss that possibility?
When I use the word “sins” I am not putting a guilt trip on you. I am talking about genes, heredity and how alcoholism and drug addiction can affect children both physically and psychically and emotionally. You also know how and why your own journey into them took place.

But the real bottom line there, at least for me, is that your son is getting help.

Would I be wrong in saying that your meaning here is that you have also had successes?
I am sorry but I just cannot see it that way. Your whole purposes is to stop the drinking and taking of drugs, or am I wrong?
Has it been in some way a scientific experiment with you?
If that is the case, you are not just playing with your own life but with that of your children.

That sounds like it just might be more of an excuse than an explanation but I may be wrong in my thought. The men and women who eventually gave up that mindset or mentality are the ones who are now the reformed alcoholics who never touched another drink although at times they may have dearly wanted one.

None of what I have written in here is a rant and I can see that for the most part it is falling on deaf ears, at least I think that it is…another symptom.

I really hope that this time is going to be it for you gib but thinking and hoping for it is not doing it. There is no magic in that…just magical thinking.

Arc, you’re still speaking out of ignorance and you’re still generalizing. Sounds like you’re pretty sure of your opinion, so I think it would be a waste of my time to argue with you about that.

I’m just going to respond to a few things you said:

Because this was you speaking out of ignorance. You’re speaking as though I’ve been trying to get off the drugs and alcohol these past 5 years, and that each 2 month stint was a failure. As I said before, this is not what these 2 month stints were, and you would know that if you read the thread before making that comment. The insult is you being critical without first bothering to understand (because it’s too uninteresting) what you’re being critical about.

Also, I’m conditioning myself to be extra sensitive to criticisms/attacks on my approach, and I’m doing it on purpose. I’m conditioning myself to take pride in my approach, to put all my value into it (that’s why it will work), which therefore means that criticisms/attacks against it are going to sting more. It’s called the migration of value. I talked about it above. You can search it.

You’ve brought this up before, the guinea pig analogy. You talk about it as if it’s a bad thing. I don’t get it. Experimentation is what we do to learn. Treating myself as a guinea pig teaching me about myself, helps me grow.

Ok, this is probably a good spot to explain, in a nut shell, what’s been going on these past 5 years… at least I’ll try.

Have a look at this chart:

Notice a pattern? Notice how each 2 month stint is a different combination of the three main drug categories I consider to be a problem for me? Except for the first two. The second one (Aug. 2014 to Oct. 2014) was just a repeat of the first one because I figured I needed to do it again. To go through all 7 combination (plus a repeat of the first)–that is, all 2 month stints with breaks in between–has taken 5 years. This was on purpose. I expected from the very beginning that the whole thing would take 5 years (and I told my x this). And I’m right on schedule. Each 2 month stint was a resounding success. Why? Because the goal was not to get off the drugs and alcohol right then and there; the goal was to get off the drugs and alcohol (or some combination thereof) just for those two months… and I never fell off the horse once. They were successes. The whole thing, so far, is a success.

July 1 will work because it’s not just another 2 month stint. It’s the actual formal decision I’ve made for myself. Now that I’ve gone through all combinations via these 2 month stints with breaks in between, I’m ready to actually make this move. It won’t be just the next attempt in a series of failed attempts, it’ll be the first attempt.

In fact, I even wrote this above: I said that I’m actually disappointed in the results. Life tends to be dull and boring, and sometimes depressing, off the drugs and alcohol. I learned that you can’t just find a quick substitute for the drugs, at least not within 2 months. But then why am I still committed to quitting July 1? In the beginning, I told myself I needed these 2 month experiments in order to give myself some hands-on experiences with sobriety–that is, in order to convince myself a drug and alcohol free life is indeed better. You would think, then, that if I’m now disappointed in the results, I should be deciding not to quit. So why am I deciding otherwise? Because this whole thing worked. My decision, and desire, to quit is no longer dependent on the results of these experiments. The migration of value that I performed on myself these past 5 years has made it so that I actually value quitting regardless of the results of these experiments. In other words, the experiments were only a surface mechanism, something to get the ball rolling, but underneath the surface (in a sort of semi-conscious state, I suppose) I’ve been working on changing my values such that I don’t need to conduct these experiments in order to justify quitting. This is what really makes it work, investing all my value into quitting. When you’re stubborn like I am, you have to play tricks on yourself in order to let go of unhealthy attachments. I’m in a state of mind now where it’s just a matter of executing the decision, whereas 5 years ago, I was too stubborn to even consider it without positive results from my experiments. By the sounds of it, your mother didn’t even want to try sobriety, not even for 2 months. I’m in a totally different state of mind, thanks to these past 5 years, than your mother ever was.

^ This is what I’ve been explaining throughout this thread, just not so succinctly.

And to answer your question about what I’m going to do to make this decision stick (besides will power and commitment), let me quote myself:

And I’m gonna apologize. Sorry for the violin. You were putting yourself out there, becoming vulnerable like you said, tell us something that would normally be private, and I rudely dismissed it with the little violin guy. I’m sorry. I hereby validate you.

No. He’s being weak in expressing a lie. When a body craves something, it can be as simple as just a bad addiction. However, in a reality where everything stems from nature and is natural, the very same thing that is poison in large amounts is healing and therapy when moderated. Even excess, in moderation, is readily good medicine. And, this should be taken with some grain of ‘obviously, we all indulge in excess before we get to the point of being able to moderate.’ And that should be a ‘DUH’, that should be an ‘of course, this is obvious’, if not for how stupid we all have been.

Now, obviously, I do say ‘we all’ for a reason, because if it were easy for me to say all that I have said, then you forget the years of seeing me refine what I say and how I say it. Obviously took effort, obviously needed to be pointed out for how obvious it is for the obvious problem of erratic thought processes, all that I did while getting high on meth, high on pot, living homeless, under attack and fighting, I managed to keep my mind, to some extent becoming healthier under it all than I had been my entire life, due to perception, due to waking up, due to wanting to live instead of wanting to die, of fighting to get out of negativity and depression… all the self-help book and seminars with douche-bags prescribed medicine.

The fact that if your body craves it, then it must, to some extent be healthy. They say fast food isnt healthy for the grease, but then why do we have it at all? Unhealthy eating? Due to what, unhealthy living? What is healthy living and why do completely healthy people still have as much danger from dropping dead? And shouldn’t that be worried about more than the obviously unhealthy? Vegetables aren’t much healthier for you than meat; they can cause gas, health problems just the same. Meat being just as healthy, not less or more. And, what are you supplementing for your lack of drugs and alcohol? You’re not just going without without having a supplementary addiction that could be just as harmful if not more. And, if youre struggling with continued ‘withdrawal attacks’ etc., shouldnt you be wondering to some extent about, ‘what if that bastard is right and drugs and alcohol are, to some extent, healthy? Maybe not for me, I might be healthier without them for supplementing other things in my life for addictions, but they could still be healthy for other people.’

And, realistically, healthy or not for people here or there, why should any of us care too much about that? I think, to some extent, morality only extends so far and we should focus more on this being said for intellectual curiosity and gain than moralistic purposes.

Tell you what, Eternal. You do you, and I’ll do me. I’ll quit the drugs but I promise not to put any pressure on you to do the same. That way, you can feel free to indulge in whatever drug habits you desire without feeling like you now have to live up to a new standard.

gib,

All right. So these past five years your main focus and GOAL was NOT about getting off the drugs and alcohol. You were simply experimenting. I still do not get the reasonableness of it all but I am perhaps coming from a place where you have not been ~~ or perhaps you have. Did alcoholism touch your life as you were growing up? You do not have to answer that if you do not want to.
The bottom line is that you have the freedom to come to consciousness in whichever way you choose.

It would still not have made any difference to me, gib. I still see no logic in it considering what alcohol and drug addiction can do to lives, what it did to my life. That is my right. Of course, you have the right to live your life the way you choose but people also have the right to disagree with your way of thinking but it is still your way of thinking. I am coming from a place of experience and knowledge though I can understand your choosing to deny that. You really have no idea where I live at my core or where I lived at my core.

Doesn’t that seem a bit counter-intuitive?
If you truly believe and value what you are about then why give way to such negativity? Wouldn’t questioning what others say be a more reasonable thing to do and then afterwards, if you actually disagree, just affirm and validate yourself.

We cannot, ourselves, always be impartial judges and witnesses to ourselves. Can we, gib?

…to the point where you will make the conscious decision to STOP drinking and drugging, continue in an ongoing way to get help and to give the gift of that promise which you made to your children to stop by July 1st?
One day at a time of course or one hour at a time.

What was the most important thing which you learned about yourself over the last five years insofar as your addictions go and how it might help you in your journey into sobriety ~~ in case I missed it somewhere?

Hmmm…the first attempt? I may actually be wrong in what I am thinking here but is it a good idea to think of it as an attempt? Your mindset right there means that you realize you may fail. Of course, that is possible. There are setbacks and relapses. I think it is important to see that ahead of time. As I said, I may be wrong but considering it as an attempt? Is that healthy? I do not know. It was just a thought.
I suppose that it IS important to give ourselves permission to have failed, to be loving toward ourselves through it and then get back up and continue on…and not to give up on ourselves.

.

Other times it can be just the opposite, gib. We take both of them.
What are some of the things which you have done in the past, during your two-month stints, to keep yourself off the alcohol and drugs, when you were in the throes of boredom and dullness?
Where do you find your bliss, gib?

All of these things do sound interesting.
Do you believe that in the midst of doing all of these things you will not feel the need to drink?
At some point, you may get tired of them or they may not offer you the excitement which you seem to need. This is possible, you know. What then?
Again perhaps I am wrong but it is good to be prepared.

Maybe you need to take things a bit slow. Allow yourself to be a bit bored with life. Anyway, you will be talking with a therapist. Perhaps it might be a good idea to find one who has been a reformed alcoholic for years but I may be wrong.
I am quite aware of how very often I have been wrong but if you use this against me, my wrath shall be visited upon you, gib. lol Only kidding.

How often do you feel you will see a therapist? AA meetings give you the opportunity to be there when you are feeling down and shaky…if or when that happens. That is the beauty of the meetings. There will be like people there who have experienced what you have and will want to help you. You will need a strong sense of inter-connectedness.

I would be very interested to know how this comes about. I was going to make a negative comment being the skeptic but I figure that I will just shut my mouth and wait to see what you have to say about it.

So, what do you think will actually be the first thing you say to him/her after the initial pleasantries have been done away with.

Does this mean that come July 1st, you believe that you will not need the therapist?

I just deleted the sentence which I had typed here and I will ask you this instead: In what way do you mean “that there’s nothing wrong with me”? Can you explain that attitude and how it will serve you?

Do you believe that of July 1st you will be reformed and healed?
Ah, no. I think that you are much too intelligent and aware to believe that.

Why do you feel you want to be awesome? What will that do for you?
Also, do you not, in some ways, already feel that you are awesome or capable of being awesome, in a humble way, :evilfun: albeit you have these problems?

Hmmm…Will your mind also have the humility to admit that you cannot go it alone and that it will take a lot of time, patience, energy, struggle, honesty, exorcising of any (unsupernatural) :evilfun: daemons and stick-to-itive-ness?

lol
I do not know, gib. You may want to ask all of the men with tattoos of their girlfriends’ faces or names who they were so obsessed with but who have long since gone the way into history.

I think that imagining the faces of your two smiling happy children might be by far a much stronger imagery to hold onto to solidify your commitment but then I am thinking as a Mom.

I have a little tattoo. Anyway, at what point would you get tattooed to ACTUALLY symbolize that you HAVE earned it? Prior to July 1st or how many months past that time when you become conscious of the fact that you indeed earned it or are earning it?

The journey which you will be on to get off and stay off of the alcohol and drugs WILL BE part of an exorcism though perhaps a different one than you mean.
You really appear to be raring to go gib. You need to slow down but you probably will not.

That is okay gib and I appreciate the apology. You did not hurt my feelings at all. I just questioned your response.
You may consider me hereby validated.
:angelic-blueglow:

This 2018 July 1st, Gib?

I took Acting 101 at a community college to get over my crazy fear of public speaking where my mind goes blank. Mentally freezing up hurts my ability to interact and debate in groups. I aced the class, but my overall fear remains with some improvement though, my mind only goes partially blank now (LOL!).

Oh snap, I’d forgotten about your tutorial. I’ll get to crackin’ on my instruction manual for you. The most important aspect of astral traveling is having an energized positive disposition/outlook. You need a great deal of feeling both physically and emotionally good.

My dad was a bit of an alcoholic, but not a drunk. He liked to have a glass, maybe two, of cognac every second night or so, or sometimes a glass of wine. He was very rarely drunk. The only time I really remember him being drunk was at a Halloween party at our house. He invited all his work colleagues. It was fun. One of his friends was dressed like a monk, and my dad knelt down in front of him pretending to confess: “Oh please father, forgive me for I have sinned.” ← Or some shit like that. He was joking around, of course. It took me several years to get over the scars.

That’s fine because this thread isn’t about you.

I can be a lot more impartial than you ever could.

You’re talking as though it’s completely unnatural to be insulted when our personal values are attacked. What you’re talking about can be done but it’s not an alternative to being insulted, it’s done despite being insulted. Given that, one can still say “I was insulted” while affirming and validating one’s self. And furthermore, one can still respond.

Oh, I’ve learned a ton over the past 5 years, but if I were to pick the most important, it might be this:

What it means to take care of myself. I used to think taking caring of yourself meant fending for yourself, doing what you want instead of what others want you to do. I essentially thought of it as doing whatever you want. But now I think of taking care of myself as taking care of my future. Thinking long term. Which sometimes means not doing whatever I want in the moment.

I was being clever with words (er, I thought I was 8-[ ); previously, I was trying to correct your misinterpretation as “failed attempts”; I thought calling July 1 a “first attempt” just flowed. But you’re right, it’s not an attempt, it’s a decision.

That’s the 64 million dollar question, isn’t it? How to be happy without the drugs. This is one of the more damaging things drugs have done to me. My happiness–pleasure–has become intricately connected with the drugs. It’s like getting to experience what it’s like to be a billionary and then having to go back to making a mediocre living. Small things which used to bring you pleasure, like seeing a movie, seem pittiful afterwards. Hopefully, that will fade with time.

I’m also going to ask the therapist if he (or she) can refer me to an energy specialist. I swear that if my body could just generate a bit more energy, or my brain work just a little faster, I could have happiness set on auto-pilot. And it wouldn’t have to be intense happiness. I think I could be satisfied feeling like I had a couple shots of tequila and a cup of Joe… all day, every day.

Actually, I lied. The decision to abstain from drugs/alcohol during my 2 month stints wasn’t the only thing motivating me. Posting in this thread helped as well. It’s another one of these psychological tricks. Therapists recommend announcing your commitments. The more people you tell, the more likely you will be to stick to your commitment.

But other than that, I didn’t try anything. Rather, I just looked ahead to the day when I could drink or do drugs again. I just endured the two months. Taking at least two years (or forever) off drugs and alcohol is forcing me to look for alternatives.

Ok, fine:

I can deal with a bit of boredom, just not depression.

Tell you what, Arc. Let’s compromise. I’ll think about joining AA if I fall off the horse after July 1. I’ll be forced to ask myself: what have I got left? And I’ll remember you: well, Arc did suggest AA. What have I got to lose now? For now, however, I want to give myself a chance to do it on my own. ← That’s something I can take pride in, and pride fuels my will to succeed. The opportunity (and the vanity) to say I did it on my own.

TBH, I expect it to be a big nothing burger. But I think I owe myself this just as a formality.

I don’t know. I’m not going to actually adhere to a script (although I have a few lines prepared); I know what I want out of therapy though, so I know the ideas I want to get across. I probably will say “help me be awesome” (as a joke) but I’ll use that as a segway into the details of what I want out of therapy.

Keep in mind, however, that finding substitutes for the drugs is only part of what I want out of therapy; I also want to pick up my software business and I think I’ll need a therapist to help me gain the skills needed to run a business (hence: influence people rather than be influenced). This is all part of a larger goal to improve myself. I feel like July 1 is a deadline I’m giving myself to grow up. I feel like I know what I need to do to improve myself (like get therapy) and I’m just waiting for July 1. I know I can be like a superhero if I really wanted, but I will need a coach (therapist) to help me get there. I’ll definitely lean on the therapist to help me find substitutes to the drugs, but I feel like I have to get them out of my life first before I even start to kick this into high gear with the help of a therapist. ← That’s the general gist of what I want to say.

Think of it as digging myself out of a hole. I’m in the negatives right now, below ground zero. But I’m climbing out. Once I stand on solid ground, I will consider myself “OK”. ← That’s July 1. But OK only means nothing wrong with me. It doesn’t mean anything great. Standing on ground zero is not the same as soaring through the sky, and I want to leverage the help of a therapist for that. I want to be more than OK. I want more than for nothing to be wrong with me, I want to be awesome!

I believe that I will no longer be able to fault myself for anything. Right now, I can’t deny that the drugs and alcohol are a bad choice and that I am choosing. ← I can (and should) blame myself. Although I will continue to have flaws even after July 1, I think the majority of them (or the main ones) are just a part of who I am (ADD for example), and so I won’t blame myself for having them. I took the MMPI a couple years ago, and there were three main findings: drug abuse and alcoholism, ADD, and self-doubt. ← I’m not worried about any of those. The drugs and alcohol will go July 1, ADD is just a part of who I am and so I don’t really consider it a flaw, and self-doubt, if it remains after July 1, will be an illusion (like fearing nothing but fear itself).

Capable? Yes! That I am awesome? Depends on if I’m caffinated/drunk/stoned. That’s what the drugs did for me (mind you it was often an illusion). It’s made it difficult for me to feel that way without them. Feeling awesome is a substitute for drugs. If I’m lucky, this lack of feeling awesome will just fade with time.

Ha! Ha! Stick-to-itive-ness. :laughing:

Time, patience, energy, honesty, exorcising of demons… yes. Cannot do it alone? I wouldn’t mind sharing the journey towards awesomehood with someone, a special person who knows how to support me in my goals, but I just want July 1 all for myself. As I said, it’s a matter of pride, and pride is fuel. After that, I might relax the intensity (depending on if I think I still need it or not).

I don’t think you can compare relationships to drug addictions. Sometimes it’s healthy to end a relationship. Sometimes people change and they have to go their separate ways. I don’t think there’s very many situations in which it’s healthy to become an addict.

Besides, I’m not expecting the tattoo to be a guarantee. Nothing I listed above is a guarantee. But I definitely think it will help (and besides, I’d just like to have a tattoo).

The imagery of salvation works for me. It’s not just an image, it’s a drawing that I created. Though it may sound bad, I haven’t drawn any images of my children. I’m letting you know some of the multiple dimensions to this journey I’m on, but there are other dimensions I haven’t told you. The imagery of salvation has to do with demonic experiences I’ve had, which are tied to my drug use, and have a lot to do with why I’m approaching my drug problem the way I’m approaching it.

Shortly after July 1; I’m cocky, Arc. I actually believe that by July 1, I will be drug and alcohol free. I don’t need to give myself time to see if that’s true. July 1 will be the day I earn a tattoo.

And besides, the tattoo is instrumental. It will keep me from falling off the horse just as much as it will symbolize my not falling off the horse.

Remind me of that after July 1, Arc. Raring to go? Yes. I feel like I need to rev myself up in order to make July 1 significant and meaningful, like getting a running start in order to jump over a chasm (in fact, you might even think of the past 5 years as backing up in order to get a good run). After July 1, however, I may switch gears depending on how my life is going. I’m not running to win a marathon, just to make that initial leap.

Excellent! :smiley:

We seem to have switched to discussion mode, not trolling mode. :wink:

No, the other one. :wink:

Yeah, speaking in front of crowds is one thing. Spontaneously thinking of witty things to say is another.

Do you think the environment has anything to do with it? Acting classes might provide a more comfortable environment, whereas speaking in front of crowds feels more like “the real world”.

That could be a problem. :laughing:

gib,

Thank you for sharing about your father, gib.

Basically, this is correct. We are in here having a discussion so what does this mean? I would suggest that it mostly means that what is being said will be about you and at other times will be about whoever else is in here doing the sharing or the speaking. When I made the thread about me (as you put it) I was trying to give you some insight into my reasoning based on my history.

You mean to say that you can be a lot more impartial where your self is concerned? That is what I said or asked you.
We are often more impartial with others than we can be with ourselves.
I wonder if it is far easier to see others as being awesome than it is to see ourselves in that same way albeit I do not think that our main focus in life is to concentrate on being awesome. But that is an individual thing.

Aside from that, you cannot actually make a statement like that because you are not a fly on the wall of my entire life.

But give me examples, gib, where you believe that you are more of an impartial person than I am.

No, I suppose that it is not. It may be part of our natural instinct toward self preservation in different ways.

Ah, but wouldn’t it be so much easier if we were capable of just letting it all go. What would be the secret to that? Knowing ourselves and what we are about and just letting ourselves flow like water …

I do not necessarily see anything wrong with that. There can be a sense of personal freedom there unless one has to walk all over others to do it. The right kind of self ~ ishness is an art.

I think that the above is true too. But I also think that a part of that is doing what one must do in the here and now like going to AA meetings :mrgreen: and seeing a therapist. I do not see us as going from A to Z in one giant leap.

I really do not know if I am right or wrong here. I guess it depends on the one who is looking. But in one sense, looking at it as an attempt just might set one up for failure. Again, I could be wrong. But I like where it can be a decision.

If you could have more of happiness or meaningfulness in your life, which would you choose?

I have never heard of an energy specialist so I googled it. It was not what I expected…nothing that has anything to do with rejuvenating yourself. The way I look at it, energy begets energy. Do you like to walk?

We do need to be happy sometimes in order to want to survive but I think that you focus too much on wanting to be happy. You might find it easier if you do not look for it.
Is following one’s bliss necessarily about being happy all of the time or finding and doing what makes life more meaningful to us?

Perhaps if you would take the time to consider all of the human beings out there, especially children, who are usually never happy but struggle everyday of their life, even to have a bit of food, you might find a balance and not need to feel happy or be happy.

I get that but then again, how would people know for the most part whether you have stuck to your commitment?

soberjulie.com/2012/10/yest … -tomorrow/

I am neither happy nor unhappy as I type these words.
BUT I think that making Join AA as No. 1 would be a much more practical and wise thing for you to do. But you know what they say: “You can bring a horse to water but you cannot make him drink it.” But at least you are capable of seeing the water, gib.

Do you have the kind of depression that can be worked out by following a particular regime or no?

A stitch in time saves nine, gib.

One question: What kind of pride are we speaking about here?
I personally feel that any man or woman who goes to AA, determined to help him/her ~ self get off the alcohol, with all of the hard work and struggle that that entails ought to give themselves a nice pat on the back and good affirmations like good for you and keep on keeping on.

A little voice is telling me to be silent here. That is for you to reflect on or not.

;

For instance, what might some of those substitutes be?

lol I kind of thought that growing up is part of a journey that lasts until death.
Why do you seem to be in such a hurry for everything?

Well, the therapy might wait until July 1st, but you will do absolutely nothing until THEN to continue (hopefully) to improve yourself?
Maybe I am just mis-reading what you mean here

Define what YOU mean when you say superhero?

I do not know, gib, and I may be wrong here but my instinct is telling me that you are putting the cart before the horse.

Where do you think that your wanting to be awesome is coming from?
If I were you and perhaps in some ways I am similar to you, aswe can all be, that is one of the questions which I might ask the therapist or reveal in an AA meeting.

I think perhaps, gib, that if you give it some thought, you might find that you ARE awesome in some ways, not in a way that is egoistical or vain, but in a way that is real, in the same way that you might look up into the night sky, and know instinctively how awesome that beautiful bright moon is.

Maybe seeing that is enough. I do not know where blaming gets us. If Rome was not built in a day neither were you. It took what? Almost forty years to build you? That does not mean you take no responsibility for it.

Join the club, gib. :evilfun:

As for the first, good for you.
As for the second, would you necessarily consider *self-doubt to be an illusion? I mean if it is there, it IS there and is it not a good thing to reflect on why it is there, what triggered it?

“What I am really saying is that you don’t need to do anything, because if you see yourself in the correct way, you are all as much extraordinary phenomenon of nature as trees, clouds, the patterns in running water, the flickering of fire, the arrangement of the stars, and the form of a galaxy. You are all just like that, and there is nothing wrong with you at all.”
Alan Watts

Didn’t you mention that you have a very good female friend? I cannot remember her name. As for the other, it might be better for you not to look for a special someone. What do you think? They might just muddy the waters of your journey into sobriety but quien sabe!

lol You certainly have that wrong, gib. But it would depend on the individuals and the relationships. Many relationships are very addictive and co-dependent.

Yes, it is.
This too can be true. Sometimes people refuse to change so another has to go his/her separate ways.

I do not see ANY situation where it is healthy to become an addict.

I have no doubt that you can be. You have done it before.
Living in the NOW is the most important thing but do not forget that the NOW is always a continuation or a continuum.
We just see things differently.
I never did see the image of that tattoo.

It is? What piece of instrumental or classical music will you hear as you gaze at it?
What actual piece of music would go well with your journey into sobriety?
I would be interested in what you come up with.

Is the leap the beginning or the end of your journey? Will you already be there when your feet touch the ground?

I dont care what you do in terms of quitting drugs, if you actually can, which you can’t. It’s the other things you’re getting in the way of, beyond just trying to quit drugs, that has me getting involved. You need to knock your attitude off.