Where American Capitalism Fails And Rise Of A Social State.

@Zero Sum

Sounds interesting, I’ll check it out.

That being said, my philosophy of minimalism is deep-rooted for me, it’s not just the socioeconomic injustices of capitalism I despise, it’s the rampant hedonism and materialism, the destruction of the environment and the extinction of thousands of species.
Capitalism, socioeconomic injustice, hedonism, materialism, globalization, overpopulation, resource depletion, transhumanism, they all go together for me, for the most part.
I’d like to see a greener, more organic civilization, one more in harmony with itself and the environment, existing as just another part of nature, instead of in opposition to it.

I have several arguments, I just can’t be bothered presenting them to you, you’ve probably heard them before anyway, in fact you were an anarchist for a decade, you probably made the same arguments against others advocating for the national socialist dictatorship you’re now advocating for, and besides, I tend to be less argumentative with my friends anyway, preferring either to discuss if there’s mutual receptivity, or agree to disagree.

I know what you mean, but one thing I’ve learned from studying Jews over the years, is you don’t want to make martyrs of them.
No tribe on earth can play the victim card a 10th as good as they can, they’ve had 4000 years of practice.
I think the best thing to do is to absolutely ignore them, neither go to the extreme Hitler did, and try to get rid of them, assuming that’s what he tried to do, which’s another topic for another thread, or roll the red carpet out for them like Trump’s America does today.

Likewise, if your utopia should ever become a dystopia, you’re always welcome here in the national socialist democratic oligarchy of Canada.

Don’t you however understand that democracy is the foundation of materialism, hedonism, and decadence? Also, democracy is the anti thesis of a centrally planned or managed economy.

Well, being friends that doesn’t mean we can’t have a friendly debate.

But yes, it certainly wouldn’t be an easy debate with me and I imagine not with you either.

I believe in the complete removal of Jews but you’ll notice that I said unharmed and in good health in my previous post. I too am familiar with their many thousands of years existence also with their origins in ancient Egypt historically. Still, if you don’t remove their influence from society they’ll eventually kill your culture, civilization, ethnicity, or way of existence by death of a thousand cuts. Every nation, culture, or civilization they come in contact with they take it over financially enslaving the entire population. Once they infiltrate and take over a nation it’s inhabitants die a slow suffocating agonizing death of annihilation by numerous means. There can never be any kind of coexistence with them ever, they certainly know this and we must also.

No, I don’t seek a utopia but I will settle for social order which can be harmonious if properly implemented.

I think royal dynasty Europe managed to do fine with materialism, hedonism and decadence. South american Juntas managed this. Pagan idigenous peoples seemed to manage what many would just as these types of lives. Communist countries, it could be argued avoided some of this, though the ruling classes certainly partook.

@Zero Sum

There’s a flipside to this.
While democracy gives power to the people, and the people are more materialistic than say a philosophical aristocracy or a philosopher king would ideally be, overall they’re still less materialistic than the transnational capitalist class are, and when democracy is done right, with a proper constitution limiting how wealthy and powerful people individually and collectively can become, instead of the capitalist constitution we have today, it’ll prevent an ultra-materialistic, hypercompetitive (trans)national capitalist class from establishing itself, or at least make it much more unlikely.

Again I don’t like putting all my eggs in one basket, or in the hands of a single individual, because if they become corrupt, we’re fucked, and kings can sometimes get around constitutions, even good ones, so I prefer to balance powers.

I understand Jews, they’re just trying to benefit themselves, sometimes at our expense, as we’ve tried to benefit ourselves at others expense, many times throughout history.
And not all Jews are like that, but almost all of them are benefitting from the ones who are, whether they know it or not.
Rather than perpetuating this 2300 year old feud between Europeans and Jews, that began when Macedonia took Israel from Persia, I’d rather put an end to it.
While they have disproportionate power for their numbers, it’s not as if they have absolute power, the transnational capitalist class is also made up of people of British, French, German and Italian descent, not just Jewish, but of course it doesn’t care about Europeans, it just cares about making money, and allows Zionists to run amok, which would no longer occur if we came to power.

Right, there can be no utopia, there will always be injustice, and inefficiency, waste, but sometimes we can reduce them.

@Serendipper

Actually it’s not quite complicated enough, working on making it more so.

Limited materialism or decadence will always exist but also understand that even figures like Augustus Caesar and Marcus Aurelius was against that. Democracy on the other hand is unlimited materialism and decadence for the large population mass.

A constitution accomplishes nothing. One only has to look at the modern United States to see this. A constitution can be circumvented, manipulated, or be promptly ignored, happens all the time. There really is no difference from that of a prime minister, president, dictator, or king.

The difference only is the dictator and king is more honest about how they conduct things.

All Jews are like that because even the poorest of Jews benefit from the richest ones. Then again there really isn’t many poor Jews because poor laboring is for goyim only. Of course there are many non-Jews that conspire with them also and as the old saying goes there is nothing worse than an enemy inside the gates conspiring with the enemy. No, once again I’ll say that there can be no coexistence with them. They have their own nation now and that is where they should be limited to.

Jews have absolute power especially after they take control of a nation’s finance, banking, and corporations. Once that happens they become embedded within that nation and are hard to remove like any other kind of cancer or tumor.

We certainly can lessen or limit it all but you and me have different visions of how to do this. It leaves us at an impasse.

You know it always interests me when government or state employees are allowed to be unionized but where the private workforce isn’t allowed to. You have teacher, police, firefighter, nurse, doctor, college professor, and government employee unions everywhere but the moment when say factory workers try to do the same everybody gets in an uproar. It makes sense however that in a nation like the United States when you’ve outsourced all private industrial mass production businesses overseas to foreign nations all that you have left is your federal and state workforce. In a consumer economy that revolves around services you need somebody to consume since the majority of the population can barely afford anything living in subsistence, right?

Just how long can any nation survive where only its state or federal workforce can afford to live well? I have a feeling we are going to see the end of this tragic experiment.

So, let us be clear here, the private workforce is allowed nothing concerning any basic welfare or entitlements but state and federal employees are allowed both where you’re not allowed to question it. What a great country we have here!

@Zero Sum

You tend to see things more black/white than I do.
A constitution is something, it’s just not everything, you also need an angry, armed and self-educated public.
A proper constitution would limit the amount of wealth people can accumulate.
If there aren’t limits to wealth, than the constitution is sowing the seeds of its own circumvention later on down the road, which’s exactly what’s happening in North America and West Europa, but it’s happening in stages.
even you talked about your king needing to be subject to a constitution.
There are no absolutes in life, no guarantees, but the more reasonable safeguards you have, the better things tend to be.

While an absolute dictator is definitely more honest and efficient, I’ll give you that, if he’s just honestly and efficiently killing and enslaving you, than he may as well be inefficient.
There have been good dictators, but many more have been bad.
There needs to be a balance between efficiency, and security.
Furthermore, wisdom and understanding can come from many places, no individual or class has a monopoly on it, and so leadership should be shared.
There can still be hierarchy, but it should be flexible, rather deifying anyone.

From my research, Jews have tremendous and disproportionate power for their numbers, but not absolute.
There are many Brits, Frenchman, Germans and so on in top positions of finance and capital, it just so happens they don’t give two shits about us, where as the Jewish elite cares about the common Jew, at least to some degree.
They’re more cohesive, at least for now.
Of course part of that is their doing, they’ve undermined our sense of cohesiveness, but part of this is our doing.
In North America and increasingly in Western Europe, we place the individual, or should I say the corporation, and money above and beyond all other considerations,
This was happening long before (cultural) Marxism, political correctness and all of that, the seeds were being sown by Europeans of non-Jewish descent like Adam Smith and Bernard Mandeville.
Materialism is the zeitgeist, and it’s effecting everyone, all the peoples of the world, just some more than others.

For the most part you are right, but there is a little socialism, that is what minimum wage, welfare, healthcare in Canada, education and public libraries are.
Paltry I know, there needs to be a hell of a lot more of it.

State markets are a form of monopolization, and they can be ran more in the interests of the state than the people, just as capitalist markets can.
There needs to be checks on both state, and corporate power.

I foresee this occurring too, but I’m not sure if it’s going to be an overnight, or gradual transition.

While I tend to prefer my own, I don’t think I’d kick anyone out just for being an other.

You’re too soft I hate to say Gloominary.

Try being a white guy walking down the streets of Chicago, Baltimore, or Brownsville Texas and then tell me if you think any differently. Here in the United States whites are vilified for everything especially if you’re a white male. It’s the same in other so called minority controlled areas of Canada, Australia, and especially western Europe. They don’t want to negotiate or even compromise on anything with us, all they want to do is eradicate us culturally and ethnically.

Nothing short but our collective extinction, annihilation, and passivity will appease them.

I actually one time reached out to La Raza, Nation Of Islam, and black panther groups online asking them what would happen if the nation split a part on cultural or ethnic lines agreed to by everybody where they would get their own independent autonomous territories that they could rule for themselves in segregation. They rejected any and all notions of the idea because at the end of the day they’re all takers where they want to take everything away from us leaving us collectively with nothing. No, fuck them all. There will never be diplomacy with others, they don’t want any real genuine form of diplomacy with us anyways.

No, I don’t care about them just as they don’t care about us collectively. That’s just the way it is, that’s the reality of things. Let the chips fall where they may.

Yes, let’s talk about the minimum wage laws, for instance the equivalent of minimum wages in the 1950’s United States was $20.00 a hour today. What’s the equivalent of today’s $8.00 a hour in wages after taxation or inflation? Nobody wants to talk about that.

Hard work is the mantra of today’s capitalists and conservatives in the United States to reach upward social mobility, there’s just one problem though, what work is available when you’ve outsourced all your industry, factories, manufacturing, and production overseas? What pool of jobs are available domestically after all of that? Fucking idiots.

What is capitalism in a service consumerism society or economy? Well?

Also, with zero percent credit rates concerning savings how can anybody save any money to do much of anything about their own personal situation? What little bit of money you’re able to scrap up living in a subsistence lifestyle is also easily ate up by inflation. Well geniuses, what is it that you exactly propose? Don’t tell me to work two or three jobs all at the same time either assholes!

You capitalists and conservatives are a bunch of empty blowhards clinging to a dying economic ideology that besides serving the interests of a minority of people ignores the plight of the majority. You’re all useless, irrelevant, and worthless. Your solutions are not solutions at all but instead benefits those that would damn the rest of us into oblivion. There is a tidal wave on the horizon where communism, capitalism, and democracy will be swept away into nothingness as the useless ideologies that they all are. Either learn to reassess your own beliefs or be prepared yourselves to be swept away also. There is no room for you in the commonwealth future.

There is no room for globalism or internationalism within nationalism!

Perhaps I do see things more in black and white but I am able to see things in grey too depending on the situation. Yes, even my philosopher king would have need of a constitution however where a dictator or chancellor is superior to democracy is they can in effect act on change right away without the deliberation proceedings of a bureaucratic democracy where in effect politicians wait around to see who will grease their palms in money the most to elevate their own self interests first above all else even with the concerns of the state or nation.

A wise dictator or chancellor would transcend and skip through all of that special interests nonsense putting themselves first for the nation as a whole. The safeguards in democracy isn’t safeguards at all where if there are any it is safeguards of the aristocratic oligarchy against the majority of the common man or woman. A nation can only be efficient when the aristocratic oligarchy or special interests is brought under heel to serve the nation where only a strong central leader is capable of doing this. While in the dictatorship a dictator is supreme there are various leaders aiding him in council, not all leadership is limited to the dictator himself.

Any number of horrible dictators you can cite I can in return say the same of many prime ministers and presidents.

Not only is communism or marxism revolving around the cult of individualism but also so does capitalism and conservatism as well. When it concerns the history of communism, marxism, conservatism, and capitalism they were all born out of classical liberal philosophy, they only evolved differently from each other yet their historical origins remain the same.

It is that extreme individualism that corrupts the natural collectivist cultural spirit of nationalism and why the west is the disaster it is today. The west will not be able to resurrect itself until that classically liberal cult of individualism is destroyed for once and all. Individualism is the embodiment of hedonism, materialism, and selfishness where its iconography of worship is the value of money. Collectivism however is the embodiment of transcendence to which its iconography is idealism or an ideal world that can be built together for all. This is where collectivism succeeds and where individualism fails.

You can say whatever you want on them but you know my position all the same, there can be no coexistence with them.

The socialism you describe is like little scraps fed to dogs of social piecemeal. The socialism I speak of is meant to elevate everybody collectively as a whole and humanity’s future.

It is a socialism that serves the needs of people now and their children’s children in the future.

Only an unwise corrupt dictatorship would serve the interests only of those running it, a wise dictatorship concerns itself as a state serving the interests of the people, nation, and its culture.

I made a thread on this subject:

http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=193761

It gets more interesting as it progresses.

While I don’t like your ideas on tolerance or democracy many of your socialist ideas are compatible with mine. I read two pages of your thread and I really enjoyed your articulations of things. We both understand the end game of what will happen to this entire planet if it doesn’t change at a fundamental level, it’s just your views are peaceful where mine are more commanding.

You know what kind of people our opposition are, surely you must know there is no peaceful way to deal with or address them. Armed struggle will be the only way I think.

There are two major points of contention between us so far.
One is over race, the other is over government.
My previous position was Non-Whites can stay, but we’d have next to no immigration, and we’d prioritize White immigration over Non-White immigration.
I admit I was being a little too soft on race.
if the Balkanization of North America we’ve been talking about occurs, I’d commit to a 100% English-White ethno-racial state.
By English I don’t mean racially, but just linguistically, you should speak the language.

However, on the issue of government, I would not join a state that didn’t guarantee me more power over it than I have over Canada now.
Consequently it should be an Aristocracy, with a mix of referendums and representation, where only white men who’re able and willing to fight for it before or during the revolutions occurrence will be extended first class citizenship and the vote.
White men who aren’t able and willing to fight for it before or during the revolutions occurrence (Johnny-come-lately) will be extended second class citizenship and not the vote.

I think you’re being too dismissive of Aristocracy, the three most powerful states in the ancient world: Sparta, Athens and Rome were Aristocracies.
Their governments were more participatory than ours, but more exclusive.
Sparta had a mix of Aristocracy and Monarchy.
Aristocracies are a European tradition, and they have advantages over dictatorship.

One is if a single man is given (nearly) absolute power, his underlings will envy him, and some of them may try to kill him.
Two is hundreds of heads, so long as they’re smart and strong, are better than just one.
Three is if the dictator is assasinated by the enemy, it’ll plunge the state into a chaos it may take decades to recover from, if it ever does, for nearly everything depends on him.
Four is people will be more eager to join if they’re richly rewarded, bit if we’re ultimately all servants or slaves of the dictator, than there’s little incentive, I mean don’t quit your day job.
Five is having a dictator makes everyone else kind of intellectually and spiritually effete.

Aristocracy is part of the reason why 300 Spartans were able to defeat 300 000 Persians at the battle of Thermopylae, the other being Europeans are of course smarter and stronger than Persians, and our (military) tech was superior.
There’s a difference between Aristocracy and Oligarchy, which’s why I’m now using the word Aristocracy.
Oligarchy is practically synonymous with plutocracy, rule by the rich, but Aristocracy is much less about wealth, and much more about merit, and merit will be defined in the constitution.

Speaking of merit, people who’re philosophically educated and trained could be given more power in the aristocracy than people who aren’t.

Also, what to do with religion?
I think Muslims and Jews should be completely banned from the state.
Other religions should keep to themselves, keep their religion private, they shouldn’t be able to build Churches, temples or publically proselytize, or aggressively privately proselytize.
The state should either be officially atheist, or officially a pagan, white spirituality.

I mean how’re we going to decide who the ‘dictator’ is?

Is it me…is it you?