Equanimity

This is the main board for discussing philosophy - formal, informal and in between.

Moderator: Only_Humean

Forum rules
Forum Philosophy

Re: Equanimity

Postby phyllo » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:37 am

You are overly sensitive over this.
I'm not sensitive at all. I just understand how manipulation works.

You want me to think : "oh, I don't want be associated with immorality and murder so I better say that equanimity is good."

or "oh, rejecting equanimity is just like accepting murder. I don't agree with murder so I need to accept equanimity."

It's all bullshit. It's all based on pushing someone's emotional buttons.
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10874
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:50 am

phyllo wrote:
Equanimity do not stifle creativity.
I understand that's your claim.
It is generally understood calmness [a quality of equanimity] is essential and critical for higher creativity.

5 steps to calm your mind and increase creativity
https://www.treehugger.com/health/5-ste ... ivity.html
The source, which is entrepreneur Trevor Blake, uses this process to generate ideas. Who says that he has any equanimity?

The article says that "mental work can be aided by our physical practices". Okay, but that's not equanimity.

Some people are productive in a quiet room, some with TV or music blasting away, some have particular rituals, some work early, some late at night, etc.
You are simply shooting arrows at the term 'equanimity' without bothering to understand what is equanimity.

Note the critical point in that article;

Taking steps to calm one’s brain and reduce mental distractions creates an ideal setting for brilliant insights.


Your claim is equanimity stifle creativity.
The above prove you wrong.
The above sort of 'calmness' arises from a cultivated state of equanimity.

How can one who has lost control of their emotions be creative when they are overwhelmed by their emotions. If there is any ounce of creativity from these highly emotional disturbed mood swingers, those creativity would have come out when they are calm [a quality of equanimity, albeit low in this case]. These people are suffering from some kind of mental disorders which no ordinary person would want to promote or strive for.

Thus the most effective way to seek creativity without any danger of mental disorders is via the cultivation of a state of equanimity [not apathy, 'frozen' mental paralysis or indifference] '
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
Prismatic567
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:35 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 1:57 am

phyllo wrote:
You are overly sensitive over this.
I'm not sensitive at all. I just understand how manipulation works.

You want me to think : "oh, I don't want be associated with immorality and murder so I better say that equanimity is good."

or "oh, rejecting equanimity is just like accepting murder. I don't agree with murder so I need to accept equanimity."

It's all bullshit. It's all based on pushing someone's emotional buttons.
You are still overly sensitive on this.
I have no such intentions at all.
All I did was stating facts to avoid being blunt and offensive just in case of misunderstanding.
Point is, if I don't qualify, some people will take it as a direct insult.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
Prismatic567
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:35 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby phyllo » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:14 am

The above prove you wrong.
Some random guy says something in a blog and it's a proof or foundation for a proof?
How can one who has lost control of their emotions be creative when they are overwhelmed by their emotions. If there is any ounce of creativity from these highly emotional disturbed mood swingers, those creativity would have come out when they are calm [a quality of equanimity, albeit low in this case]. These people are suffering from some kind of mental disorders which no ordinary person would want to promote or strive for.
Again equating lack of equanimity with mental disorders.
](*,)
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10874
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:57 am

phyllo wrote:
The above prove you wrong.
Some random guy says something in a blog and it's a proof or foundation for a proof?
I am not insisting on that.
Given the limitation within a discussion in a forum, it is one clue and a lead for one to seek further reinforcements.

How can one who has lost control of their emotions be creative when they are overwhelmed by their emotions. If there is any ounce of creativity from these highly emotional disturbed mood swingers, those creativity would have come out when they are calm [a quality of equanimity, albeit low in this case]. These people are suffering from some kind of mental disorders which no ordinary person would want to promote or strive for.
Again equating lack of equanimity with mental disorders.
](*,)
You are complaining due to the lack of depth and width in your knowledge database.

Note it is well known there are many creative people who were recognized as mad and within other DSM categories.
Note Van Gogh, Sylvia Plath and others.
Those who suffer from severe depression has extreme mood swings from disturbed to normalcy.

This is what I meant by my above statement.
These creative people are unfortunately suffering from some kind of mental disorders which no ordinary person would want to promote or strive for to gain creativity. What is wrong with this?
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
Prismatic567
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:35 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby Magnus Anderson » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:56 am

We typically see that "creative" people reject equanimity in order not to lose creativity.


They don't lose creativity, they lose too much creativity. Of course, it's their decision how they are going to live their lives. I'm just saying that equanimity =/= no creativity. It means less creativity if it means anything. And less is oftentimes more.
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
-- Mr. Reasonable
User avatar
Magnus Anderson
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3711
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:26 pm

Re: Equanimity

Postby Magnus Anderson » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:01 am

Pandora wrote:Prismatic, Why are you turning to Buddhism to solve your problems? Can you not find solutions to your problems closer to home? The problem/risk with Buddhist solutions is that they comes with, well...Buddhism (in whichever form). And that opens the door going in the wrong direction. I mean, is the problem you are trying to solve so complex and historically unprecedented that you have to seek solutions all the way on the other side of the earth, in the East? Personally, I don’t think it is. This is similar to people following the fad of taking up eastern martial arts in order to know and better themselves. Do you have to study kung fu or karate, or whatever, in order to get to know yourself or be a better person, or address whatever problems you have? Is this the only choice you have? And what price is paid for that choice? Call my view xenophobic, but these systems originated from different histories and from different people, and are alighted with different values so I don’t believe you can just copy and paste them across cultures and expect it to be a 100% fit.


The East has one quality that the West lacks and that is holism or in plain terms the right brain.
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
-- Mr. Reasonable
User avatar
Magnus Anderson
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3711
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:26 pm

Re: Equanimity

Postby phyllo » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:21 am

You are complaining due to the lack of depth and width in your knowledge database.
You forgot to say 'height'. :banana-linedance:
:sad-bored: Your personal 'evaluations' got tiresome a long time ago.
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10874
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby Pandora » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:09 am

Equanimity is equivalent to today's buzzword “mindfulness” [from Buddhism], which in turn, is synonymous with hypnosis, or altered state of consciousness.

The Science of Meditation and the State of Hypnosis:
http://www.asch.net/portals/0/journalli ... olroyd.pdf

The effects of meditation and hypnosis are similar:

“Dropping of the awareness of the environment and loss of sense of separate self”

“..letting go of awareness of physical sense perception and space, psychological (and consciousness) boundaries...”

“Presence of theta waves in frontal area correspond to shutting down of executive and choice functions.., desire for action...and switching off of neural connections”

“The evidence indicates that both hypnosis and concentration meditation result in inhibitory patterns, particularly in middle and frontal cortical areas associated with executive functions and cognitive control”

The question is then posted as to whether the practice of mindful meditation increases one’s suggestability [due to increased presence of alpha and theta brain waves].
User avatar
Pandora
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4154
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Ward 6

Re: Equanimity

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:33 am

Pandora wrote:Equanimity is equivalent to today's buzzword “mindfulness” [from Buddhism], which in turn, is synonymous with hypnosis, or altered state of consciousness.

The Science of Meditation and the State of Hypnosis:
http://www.asch.net/portals/0/journalli ... olroyd.pdf

The effects of meditation and hypnosis are similar:

“Dropping of the awareness of the environment and loss of sense of separate self”

“..letting go of awareness of physical sense perception and space, psychological (and consciousness) boundaries...”

“Presence of theta waves in frontal area correspond to shutting down of executive and choice functions.., desire for action...and switching off of neural connections”

“The evidence indicates that both hypnosis and concentration meditation result in inhibitory patterns, particularly in middle and frontal cortical areas associated with executive functions and cognitive control”

The question is then posted as to whether the practice of mindful meditation increases one’s suggestability [due to increased presence of alpha and theta brain waves].
There are similarities and differences between meditation and hypnosis.

https://eocinstitute.org/meditation/med ... ilarities/

There are lots of articles on this topic.

Basically meditation is for the overall well-being including specific areas of the individual, OTOH, hypnosis often has a specific target in mind.

Often the scare mongering by those who are anti-meditation and do not understand meditation is falsely presented as meditation empties the mind and thus make it vulnerable for Satan to get in.

Generally there are two types of meditation, i.e.
    1. Concentration
    2. Mindfulness

Both are necessary and concentration facilitates mindfulness.

Experiences of altered states of consciousness do happen during meditation but they are not the objective of meditation and the meditator is often advised to let such experiences go and one should not crave for it no matter how ecstatic the epiphany or experiences.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
Prismatic567
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:35 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby Prismatic567 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:42 am

phyllo wrote:
You are complaining due to the lack of depth and width in your knowledge database.
You forgot to say 'height'. :banana-linedance:
:sad-bored: Your personal 'evaluations' got tiresome a long time ago.
I don't simply make such a statement without the justifications.

To add; if any one were to advise me with supporting justifications I will take their advice and update myself and I have been doing a lot of such in the past.
Last edited by Prismatic567 on Fri Feb 02, 2018 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
Prismatic567
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:35 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby Pandora » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:49 am

Magnus Anderson wrote:The East has one quality that the West lacks and that is holism or in plain terms the right brain.
reminds me of this article (scroll down to decognition process and persuasion techniques).
https://www.dicksutphen.com/battle-for-your-mind.html
The right brain is often targeted in hypnosis, NLP, and other brainwashing techniques, while the left is being immobilized or distracted.
User avatar
Pandora
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4154
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Ward 6

Re: Equanimity

Postby Pandora » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:52 am

meditation empties the mind and thus make it vulnerable for Satan to get in.
In a manner of speaking...Yes!
User avatar
Pandora
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4154
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Ward 6

Re: Equanimity

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Fri Feb 02, 2018 6:07 am

Pandora wrote:
meditation empties the mind and thus make it vulnerable for Satan to get in.
In a manner of speaking...Yes!


... and Satan inspired "busy-ness" keeps God out? :D
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
User avatar
pilgrim-seeker_tom
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:16 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby phyllo » Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:39 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
phyllo wrote:
You are complaining due to the lack of depth and width in your knowledge database.
You forgot to say 'height'. :banana-linedance:
:sad-bored: Your personal 'evaluations' got tiresome a long time ago.
I don't simply make such a statement without the justifications.

To add; if any one were to advise me with supporting justifications I will take their advice and update myself and I have been doing a lot of such in the past.
Do tell me more.
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10874
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:23 pm

Pandora wrote:
meditation empties the mind and thus make it vulnerable for Satan to get in.
In a manner of speaking...Yes!
Other than it being false...Sure! (note the use of the exclamation mark) Without right brain functions we also have all sorts of problems. Someone says right brain skills are missing in the West. You argue AS IF this is a call for the elimination of the left brain. See the problem?

Like you are at work and and someone says we need to get better at having better designs on our products.
Your response: if our products have no contents, we will lose business.
Head bang.
Karpel Tunnel
Thinker
 
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Equanimity

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:25 pm

Pandora wrote:Equanimity is equivalent to today's buzzword “mindfulness” [from Buddhism], which in turn, is synonymous with hypnosis, or altered state of consciousness.

The Science of Meditation and the State of Hypnosis:
http://www.asch.net/portals/0/journalli ... olroyd.pdf

The effects of meditation and hypnosis are similar:

“Dropping of the awareness of the environment and loss of sense of separate self”

“..letting go of awareness of physical sense perception and space, psychological (and consciousness) boundaries...”

“Presence of theta waves in frontal area correspond to shutting down of executive and choice functions.., desire for action...and switching off of neural connections”

“The evidence indicates that both hypnosis and concentration meditation result in inhibitory patterns, particularly in middle and frontal cortical areas associated with executive functions and cognitive control”

The question is then posted as to whether the practice of mindful meditation increases one’s suggestability [due to increased presence of alpha and theta brain waves].
Perhaps if while you meditate someone is there telling you things. I mean, that is perhaps. In hypnosis you have someone telling you things. Someone utilizes your open state for a purpose.
Karpel Tunnel
Thinker
 
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Equanimity

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:29 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
phyllo wrote:
The above prove you wrong.
Some random guy says something in a blog and it's a proof or foundation for a proof?
I am not insisting on that.
Given the limitation within a discussion in a forum, it is one clue and a lead for one to seek further reinforcements.
So you call it proof. When he points out it is not proof but rather an appeal to the authority of some guy who wrote a blog, you now call it a clue.
See, again, this is where one acknowledges the other person is correct.
Karpel Tunnel
Thinker
 
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Equanimity

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:31 pm

Prismatic567 wrote:
phyllo wrote:
The above prove you wrong.
Some random guy says something in a blog and it's a proof or foundation for a proof?
I am not insisting on that.
Given the limitation within a discussion in a forum, it is one clue and a lead for one to seek further reinforcements.

How can one who has lost control of their emotions be creative when they are overwhelmed by their emotions. If there is any ounce of creativity from these highly emotional disturbed mood swingers, those creativity would have come out when they are calm [a quality of equanimity, albeit low in this case]. These people are suffering from some kind of mental disorders which no ordinary person would want to promote or strive for.
Again equating lack of equanimity with mental disorders.
](*,)
You are complaining due to the lack of depth and width in your knowledge database.

Note it is well known there are many creative people who were recognized as mad and within other DSM categories.
Note Van Gogh, Sylvia Plath and others.
Those who suffer from severe depression has extreme mood swings from disturbed to normalcy.

This is what I meant by my above statement.
These creative people are unfortunately suffering from some kind of mental disorders which no ordinary person would want to promote or strive for to gain creativity. What is wrong with this?
NOtice what happened. You say you can't be creative if you have lost control of emotions, then you give examples of extemely creative people who had strong emotions, even to a problematic level. You just slide over the fact that you were incorrect. You move to the next point. They can be creative but it's a bad tradeoff. Wildly oversimplified, but here's what you did not do: admit that what you said about creativity earlier was false, even while supplying evidence it was false yourself. Then you could move on to say it was not worth it. You argue without honor.
Karpel Tunnel
Thinker
 
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Equanimity

Postby Magnus Anderson » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:00 pm

Pandora wrote:
Magnus Anderson wrote:The East has one quality that the West lacks and that is holism or in plain terms the right brain.
reminds me of this article (scroll down to decognition process and persuasion techniques).
https://www.dicksutphen.com/battle-for-your-mind.html
The right brain is often targeted in hypnosis, NLP, and other brainwashing techniques, while the left is being immobilized or distracted.


If you have too much of the left side of the brain you will find it very difficult to operate in fluid, real-time, situations. You would have this need to predict every little movement in the environment which won't work because real-time situations require quick decisions and deep thinking is slow -- it does not occur fast enough. Sure, all else being all, it's better to be precise in your predictions than to be imprecise, but in reality it is rarely the case that all else is equal. That's the trade-off. The more precise your modelling of the situation is, which means the greater the number of facts it takes into account, the slower it is. So if you strive for precision and your motto is "the devil is in the details", you will be immune to manipulation but you will suck at real-time activities (such as social activities.) You will only be able to operate under laboratory conditions. Thinking isn't all bottom-up and it does not have to be. More facts isn't always better than fewer facts, clarity isn't always better than ambiguity, precision isn't always better than imprecision, reason isn't always better than intuition and so on.

What do you think is more fundamental?
Ambiguity or clarity?
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
-- Mr. Reasonable
User avatar
Magnus Anderson
Philosopher
 
Posts: 3711
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:26 pm

Re: Equanimity

Postby Pandora » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:00 am

Karpel Tunnel wrote:Someone says right brain skills are missing in the West. You argue AS IF this is a call for the elimination of the left brain. See the problem?
Our kids are being introduced to this now.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=C2id2TcfVv8
Happiness and well-being is being redefined as a skill to be developed from early age through the eastern methods of so called mindful mediation (i.e. embracing animal state). The emphasis is not in finding solutions to actual problems but on embracing passivity and withdrawal from external world. This is how the future generation will be solving problems. The message is, there is no problem out there, the problem is in you.

It’s good news for the east, as it will find “validation” and support of its mind-dumbing mysticism through western science.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/37157160/ns/t ... ch-effort/

Magnus wrote:What do you think is more fundamental?
Ambiguity or clarity?
Let me counter you with a question: in the world of competing wills, which one is more important?
User avatar
Pandora
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4154
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Ward 6

Re: Equanimity

Postby phyllo » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:27 am

Mindful mediation does not make you passive or turn off your emotions. It's a way to become aware of what is happening. It's a technique for focusing.
phyllo
ILP Legend
 
Posts: 10874
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:41 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby Pandora » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:56 am

And it’s still attached to Buddhism that was birthed by a foreign civilization, and which so happens, is also in competition for worldwide control. Despite all the claims on attaining awareness, converts seem to remain unaware of this important detail.

This is also like saying that before the West met the East Europeans did not know how to focus and be aware of their surroundings by themselves.

I want to come back to this quote by KT:
Someone says right brain skills are missing in the West.
That’s how it started and was argued. (And the same thing happened with feminist movement-in that suddenly there was something wrong with being a woman as she was).
Is the West lacking in creativity? No, and history proves it. Does the West need the East to solve its problems? Someone sure wants you to think so.
User avatar
Pandora
Philosopher
 
Posts: 4154
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:31 am
Location: Ward 6

Re: Equanimity

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:51 am

Left Brain ... Right Brain

Is it not a classic example of synergy? ... 1+1 = 3

Not in an individual brain yet certainly within a cluster of brains ... big or small.

West ... East

Does the same potential for synergy exist?
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
User avatar
pilgrim-seeker_tom
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1858
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:16 am

Re: Equanimity

Postby Prismatic567 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:53 am

Prismatic567 wrote:
phyllo wrote:
The above prove you wrong.

Some random guy says something in a blog and it's a proof or foundation for a proof?
I am not insisting on that.
Given the limitation within a discussion in a forum, it is one clue and a lead for one to seek further reinforcements.

Karpel Tunnel wrote:So you call it proof. When he points out it is not proof but rather an appeal to the authority of some guy who wrote a blog, you now call it a clue.
See, again, this is where one acknowledges the other person is correct.
Note in etymology there are many words with loose and a range of meanings, thus context is critical.

You missed the point in the above.
When I pointed out 'the above prove you wrong' it meant 'Phyllo' view i.e. 'equanimity stifles creativity' is wrong because there are alternative views.

I totally agree with the blog post because I have read of various researches to support my point. But for Phyllo it would be a clue and an indication since he is not likely to agree until perhaps convincing research conclusions from credible sources are produced.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
Prismatic567
Philosopher
 
Posts: 1907
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 4:35 am

PreviousNext

Return to Philosophy



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot]