Is political bias on part of the FBI a fact or fiction?

The FBI is biased, the media is biased, the judges are biased, the facts are biased, reality is biased, all against Trump. Everything that keeps Trump’s ridiculous nature in check is what they attack and make up lies about, in order to sustain their delusional sense of self righteousness

K: perhaps… I might offer up a different idea… that the supporters of IQ45
have biases and still believe in the myths and habits and prejudices and
superstitions that they were taught… never having lost those biases and
myths…etc… they believe in IQ45 and his lies because they cannot
move past having those biases and myths…etc…they are a victim of the past
because they can’t move beyond the past training of their childhood…
for them… Santa Claus still exists as does the easter bunny…
myths and habits that people outgrow as they grow older, conservatives
have yet to outgrow… and thus they are believers in anything that
confirms their myths and biases and habits and prejudices and superstitions
of childhood…in other words… they have never grown up emotionally…
the world is still that dark and mysterious place of childhood… where
belief is more important then facts…if you believe… clap your hands…
I recall that from watching Peter Pan in my childhood… conservatives
still clap their hands because they still believe…

Kropotkin

Trump refusing to apply new sanctions to Russia is a big deal too, right? Congress nearly unanimously passed a law requiring him to impose new sanctions, and he’s just choosing to ignore that law. Curious to hear how this one is not problematic.

Here is the law. I can’t find the official statement from the State Department, but here is one article on it (feel free to provide a conflicting source if you think this report is inaccurate).

EDIT: here’s a conservative (but generally anti-Trump) commentator arguing that the administration is in compliance with the law. I don’t think this accurately states what the law requires, but it is probably similar to the case the administration would make.

Perhaps Trump can provide us with the actual number of conservatives who hated Obama in order to prove that so many more liberals hate him.

And whatever the political bias of the FBI [and others] actual sets of facts will eventually emerge. Then we can squabble about them. All the while pretending that if there is any political bias to be found it will be theirs and not ours.

I predict that.

Not inherently, but in this time and place it certainly is. To return to my point, it is disingenuous for you to make a special plea that the press should be allowed to do things political campaigns can’t when it just so happens the press is in the pocket of your favorite political campaigns.

The American press has voted overwhelmingly for Democrats, and donated overwhelmingly to Democrats, since at least Nixon. Landslide losers like Mondale and Dukakis were landslide winners if you poll just the press.

Then that somebody would be a fool, because telling them that would serve absolutely no purpose other than to incriminate the person you’re helping. Plausible deniability is a thing- there’s nothing to be gained at all by doing what you describe.

No shit! Cool.

And it will be interpreted that way by any given lawyer that wants to see Trump impeached, I’m sure. Of course the problem there is that you can’t easily say that getting information is legal, but getting information that was obtained in an illegal way is illegal, if the receiver of the information didn’t know. And I would think conspiring to obtain illegally-obtained information must be covered by some other law.

But again, the salient point here is that we already know Trump and Hillary both were ‘meeting with foreign officials to seek help with their campaign’, and zero curiosity was apparently raised about their private conversations and so on.

Those are two completely different things. A promise to testify to what he does know leaves open the possibility that he doesn’t know anything useful to the investigation whatsoever- which is also a left open possibility in the documents you’ve shown me, which just say Flynn is going to cooperate. Again, the implication by all this ‘Flynn cut a deal’ bullshit is that Flynn offered dirt on Trump in exchange for a lighter sentence. Flynn agreeing to answer questions and not impede the investigation is a completely other thing, and I’m not sure that he could have ever disagreed.

It’s entirely possible that they have some information that points to somebody in the Trump campaign talking to somebody in Russia at some point in time about the campaign, and maybe even soliciting/accepting help with the campaign. But as I already showed everybody knows that isn’t illegal. The entire precedent for what we’re even talking about this shit is false, and the obstruction of justice case isn’t any stronger. The entire thing revolves around pretending strategizing your campaign with foreign nationals is somehow sinister, which in turn revolves around pretending the Farage thing never happened.

Remember, we’re not looking for “I saw Trump talking to a Russian guy about what piece of shit Hillary is” or even “I saw a Russian guy strategize with Trump about how to beat Hillary.” This are both publicly available activities, you just have to swap out Russia for UK or Italy. By your own admission, we’re looking for one of two things: A Russian official offering Trump money to help his campaign even though Trump is already a billionaire, Or a Russian official declaring to Trump (or Trump floating the idea) that they intend to nail Podesta with a phishing attempt.

Both of those are so ludicrously amateurish that they sound more like bait for just such an investigation as this, and not any serious attempt to collude.

Without bias it is fair to say that something happened to the American political landscape since the early days of politics when moral and ethical ground was much more inclined to become a real issue based on true rather then fake inventions of political rhetoric. The same had precedent in the Roman Empire, where, Sophism had claimed the routes of political design and evolution.

Transposing it to today, the media being the message, it seems obvious that there is a divisive two level approach to public and private distinction In US politics.

Earlier in the Teapot Dome, the Watergate, and the Lawintsky efforts of censure, the distinction between what the public was made to understand what’s behind the closed door conferences held , was less obviously sewn with , efforts to prevent the appearance of gross McCarthy type overreach between the two.

Today the apparent brazenness of political rhetoric resembles a kind of gross public trial of American Values , as distinct from the intentions of the Constitution. The message seems to be , -let the political lawyers present cases, regardless of the truth, our society has evolved to the stage of sophistry and let the whole of society become the jury, believing truth to be based on the best oratorical presentation, since cynicism as to political correctness has slipped into the equation as well.

The public knows that the beat defense is funded by the best filled pocket book, this is a politically correct statement with which no one really could , or would argue with. Truth as am ideal has been displaced by praatix approaches to interpretation , the black letter has been washed out to protect those whom society understands to be victims of circumstance. Circumstantial evidence bars any justification based on other then entry into the slippery slope d terrain of lowering it, the bar to establish more stringent levels of proof.

This is process of values in free fall , and it is the other side of the logic between arguments such as this. The free fall dangerous because it can effect the course democracy"s unraveling of distinctive didferemces between those governing amdntje governed, at the very least impinging on the stabilizing power of checks and balances, ultimately creating an authoritarian governance, based on false allegations claiming to be truthful.

That it happened in Rome, which fell, may be an indication of what will take place in the US, excepting that perhaps something has been learned in history.

Never the less, the Coanstitition has been written in no uncertain terms, therefore look for efforts to change it, challenging its said archaic vision.

As ambigoqus said earlier , that we shall see the outcome as it turns out, but results will be fed into the evolutionary matrix by constant repetition and conflation of ideas. Too long a time in the various investigations will wash out relevance and the irony of time healing all wounds of society passe., bloating the evolving correlation between fall of values and public cynicism
It is this replacement to public trust and religion that is becoming the opium of the people, and this Narcotic is the price of redemptive payout by the governence.

The new antipathy between Wray, the new FBI chief and President Trump over the release of the Nunes document is an indication that the snowball is rolling down the slope. Otsnsaid that its coming to a head between the administration and the intelligence community as a whole.

Does Wray have the choice to betray the FBI by allowing the Trump WH the memo’s release? I don’t think so, even if he supports Trump, he would have to side with the FBI, his employees, or eventually there would be no FBI left for him to manage.

Carleas, like I said the FBI (all the security agencies) are in the Democrats pockets with the media. This memo may be the start of the evidence regarding Clinton that you requested and it will go along ways towards answering the OPs question as a yes for #1. Who stalled the release of the memo to the Republicans for a year?

I don’t know, WENDY , l am trying to adhere to no bias on my part , in order to be more objective , and with me its like both parties are complicit in devaluing the concept of fair play , honesty so as to create the cynical impression that its business as usual, the difference being which party is doing it more conceivably, effectively.

Both parties are not complicit. One party, the Democrats, are doing all this BS and the media is who is complicit in aiding them to rile up the public.

I would not state that beyond a reasonable doubt experts in the field just came out with the opinion that the case does not require the production of a warrant to produce evidentiary proof beyond preponderance of evidence. Legal scholars do not see the issue rising to a need for criminal action.(as of 02/03/2018).

With the threat of a coming Constitutional Crisis, based mostly on the irreducability of. real and fake truths, where the smoke is so heavy that it covers a political maelstrom , US society is basically repressed by changing winds whose sources are equally hidden. That’s all an objectivity can say at this point"
in light of a poll’s supposed fairness.

Repression is a strong word but the facts are that mixing intangibles which correlate to the use of sophistry to undermine meaning , by creating a sense of vagueness about who opposites can create hybrid meanings , do repress the understanding of constituents who basically either are in a fog, or are vested by self serving interests.

The release of the memo is simply an act of self serving interest, putting the interests of the country after the real fact of gaining political clout. Trump allegedly has not read the document, but if he is sure that it will serve his interest in overriding an alleged bias by the intelligence and justice arm of the US system of governance, why not?
To create more confusion? Follow the classic tools of repression? Why not if truth, or the impressions such create necessitates it?

The results can be serious:, either an explosion of Constitutional wrath, or an implosion of trust in the capacity to govern, resulting in a large boost to a non aligned independent voice in the U.S…

In any case, the trend toward disenfranchising ‘Democatic Principles’ and undermining and deconstructing the tie in between economic - political struggle between principle and process, will be more successfully buried under the increasingly failing intelligence memory of the country and collusion will morph into just another ideological relic, not at all resembling McCarthy-ism.

Democracy is not affordable as a tool to bring NWO about. Either party could attest to it, but they are too worried about asymmetry between their political careers and constitutional niceties.

In fact, it may not be too early to project some kind of consistent view of a resolution to the title of this poll, that appears credible at this time.

Bias seems to have been present in some degree in both camps, but the question comes up, what degree of preponderance can be attributed to either, in this mix, which may prove libel, defactoring the normal attribution of political horseplay.

This slippery slope is what they are navigating on, imminently testing the litmus of public knowledge, tolarence, and believability. Since the cluster of issues have not been raised to a liability in terms of a criminal standard, the playing field is as of now, is still maneuverable with some margin for error left. Once criticality is reached, the noose will tighten in the amount of slack presumed.

So, fact, as it turns out.

Could You elaborate? I am somewhat in the fog . I could let it stand. , as a statement of probability, against a backdrop of certainty, since definitionally the whole nine yards is still in process.

I may be off on Your intended meaning here , though.

I won’t speak for Ucci but the OP asked whether political bias from the FBI is a fact or fiction and it has turned out to be a fact.

The Nunes memo is a summary of the House Intelligence Committee (HIC) investigation into the claim the FBI/DoJ Trump investigation was biased and that they abused their surveillance authority by spying. The gist of the summary is this:

  • Clinton PAID Fusion GPS $160K to get dirt on Trump

  • Fusion GPS hired Steele (ex-MI6)

  • Steele paid Russian agents to collect dirt on Trump which means: CLINTON PAID RUSSIANS (VIA INTERMEDIARIES) TO INTERFERE IN THE ELECTIONS.

  • Steele contacted left-wing media and planted stories about Trump/Russian collusion.

  • The left-wing media ate it up and flooded the news outlets with fake news.

  • Steele then used the fake stories he leaked, and included them in his dossier to prove Trump was colluding with Russia – i.e. he quoted his own stories in the dossier to back up his fake narrative.

  • The Steele dossier included amateur research some of it seemingly lifted from Wikipedia, errors that were easily proven wrong (e.g. Page could not have met with Russians in Prague because he has NEVER been to Prague) and salacious stories like the one about Trump hating Obama so much that he hired the Moscow hotel room Obama stayed in and got prostitutes to piss on the bed Obama used etc.

  • Even though doubtful, the FBI accepted the information with almost NO VERIFICATION.

  • The FBI then used the information (they believed to be largely untrue) to get a FISA spy warrant on Page (a Trump foreign affairs advisor) and thus by extension, spy on the communication going to and from Trump and his team.

  • The FBI didn’t tell the FISA court that the dossier was 1. virtually UNVERIFIED 2. written by a vehemently anti-Trump source with a history of lying or 3. that the source of the information used his own leaks to use in the dossier.

  • The FBI admitted under oath to Congress that they KNEW the information was fake. Knowing this, the FBI still used the fake information to extend their spy warrant on Page/Trump three times.

This is NOT justice. Justice supposed to be blind; without fear or favour This is political bias in the extreme. For anyone who believes in the rule of law, an unbiased police and justice system and a functioning, fully-informed democracy, this should worry the shit out of you. If the Republicans were doing this shit to the Democrats, I have exactly the same response - no fear or favour. But this is beyond disgusting.
.

Certainly something to think about.

Still, as usual, there are other ways to look at it:

vox.com/policy-and-politics … fbi-russia

Many are then inclined to pile up the facts in order to support their own political prejudices.

Both the liberals and the conservatives do it. More or less self-consciously.

Now, either Clinton colluded with the Russians in order to help defeat Trump or Trump colluded with the Russians in order to defeat Clinton.

Or, sure, neither party did any such thing.

A set of facts will eventually emerge regarding this that we can all argue about until the day we die. And a set of facts regarding obstruction of justice.

Personally, I don’t really follow this shit much anymore. These days, I’m more inclined to focus instead on my “dilemma”. The hole that I’ve dug for myself philosophically.

Still, it does seem rather convincing [here and now] that Trump and Putin have something going on here that is mighty suspicious.

I mean, come on.

.
These firings, demotions and retirings aren’t happening because of piling up political accusations.
Read their emails. Their anti-Trump bias is all there.

McCABE

  • Deputy Director FBI (McCabe) resigned just before the memo came out. He was due to retire in a few months so something was seriously worrying him.

  • The FBI ‘lost’ the emails those looking for bias were after but fortunately, someone in the DOJ ‘found’ them.

  • The emails between McCabe and his staff showed the level of anti-Trump bias and how they were concerned about their careers and pensions more than finding the truth.

  • McCabe’s wife ran for office as a Democrat in 2015 and receive hundreds of thousands of dollars from Hillary’s people and Democrat donor.

STRZOK

  • Peter Strzok (FBI – Deputy Assistant Director Counterespionage) was removed by Mueller for anti-Trump bias. The emails said they should go easy on Clinton as an ‘insurance policy’ when she became President.

  • Strzok’s interviews are also troubling. He interviewed people like Flynn alone and without any form of recording. What he says was said in the interviews is the only evidence public has.

COMEY

  • FBI Director Comey was fired for leaking FBI info to a friend who was expected to leak it to the press.

  • Comey wrote a draft exonerating Clinton in the private server/classified information investigation months BEFORE he interviewed her. He was also concerned about Clinton becoming President and the effect that would have on his career. In his final report, he removed 5 references to ‘gross negligence’ which could have been used to jail or fine her.

Under Comey, the server the DNC said was hacked by Russians was NEVER INSPECTED BY THE FBI or other government agencies. The DNC wouldn’t give the FBI access but they did provide the FBI with a report done by a private company that works for the DNC. That report is what the intelligence communities report is based off.

Let’s clarify what this means: 1) claim a crime was committed 2) refuse to give the police access to the crime scene 3) give them a report you arranged and 4) the police go after the perpetrator you claimed was responsible. To quote Putin “Have you lost your mind?” Da, comrade Putin. Da.

THIS ENTIRE INVESTIGATION AND FISA SPYING SCANDAL ON PAGE (AND TRUMP) REVOLVES AROUND THE BELIEF THAT THE DNC SERVERS WERE HACKED BY RUSSIANS BUT NOBODY SEEMS CONCERNED THAT THE DNC SERVER WAS NEVER INVESTIGATED BY THE FBI OR ANY U.S. INTELLIGENCE AGENCY.

OHR

  • Ohr (DOJ - Deputy Attorney General) was demoted – twice. His wife worked for Fusion GPS (the source of the fake dossier) when the FBI / DOJ were investigating Trump. His wife passed on some Fusion GPS information to Ohr who then passed it on to the FBI. Ohr didn’t divulge that he got the information from his wife/Fusion GPS.

  • Ohr reported that when Steele spoke with him Steele told Ohr that he “was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being president.”

ROSENSTEIN AND WRAY

  • Many are now waiting on Rosenstein – Dept Attorney General in DOJ to resign (very likely) and some are even suggesting that Wray, the new Trump appointed FBI Director who was called in to clean up the bias and corruption after Comey was fired, must resign too.

.

I think Dinesh DiSouza said it best: Anybody who says this is no big deal is saying they would happily see it done again.

Let’s come back to this in, say, six months. We’ll have a lot more facts to hammer into it then.

Still, what we need on threads like this is an agreement as to which of us is aligned with the irresistible force and which of us is aligned with the immovable object. :wink:

Chakra Superstar:
I won’t speak for Ucci but the OP asked whether political bias from the FBI is a fact or fiction and it has turned out to be a fact.

The Nunes memo is a summary of the House Intelligence Committee (HIC) investigation into the claim the FBI/DoJ Trump investigation was biased and that they abused their surveillance authority by spying. The gist of the summary is this:

  • Clinton PAID Fusion GPS $160K to get dirt on Trump

K: and the moon is in the sky, so what…

  • Fusion GPS hired Steele (ex-MI6)

K: actually the fact is, fusion was researching GOP candidates early in 2016 while
being paid by an GOP firm…later a law firm, Perkins Coie, retained Fusion GPS on
behalf of both Clinton and the DNC, roughly April, 2016… Fusion subcontracted
Steel, a retired M1-6 agent…Steele dossier circulated in them media during the fall
of fall 2016…and the existence of the dossier was revealed publicly by David Corn
of Mother Jones on OCT 31…too late to influence the election…on January 10, 2017
Buzz feed publish the entire dossier…

The dossier has 6 major points…1: Trump has cooperated with Russian Authorities for years…
the payoff for IQ45 was the Russian nationals who brought his property for a massive
increase of price… for example, his building was for sale for 8 million dollars,
and some Russian national bought it for 45 million dollars…therein lies possible
money laundry charges…

2: IQ45 is vulnerable to Russian blackmail on sexual matters… as the Russians
are supposed to have a tape of IQ45 being peed on by prostitutes in the Moscow
Ritz-Carlton…

3: there was a “well developed conspiracy of cooperation” between IQ45 and Russia…
which was managed by Manafort with Carter Page being the intermediary until
Manafort firing in Aug, 2016… afterward IQ45 personal lawyer, Michael Cohen played
an increasingly larger role in magaging the “Kremlin Relationship” this is similar to
what we are finding out today with details being slightly different…

4: IQ45 team know of and approved of the Russian plan to deliver E-MAILS
to WikiLeaks and offered them policy concessions in exchange… to date, as
far as we know, this hasn’t been proven…

5: Carter Page played a key role in the conspiracy…so far Page has denied under
oath, that he didn’t have such a role…and no proof has shown up but we don’t
know what Mueller knows…

6: Michael Cohen played a key role in the conspiracy… after Manafort was fired,
Cohen traveled to a European country, later claimed to be the Czech Republic for
a meeting in late August or early Sept… Cohen’s claims to have never been to
the Czech Republic, but he could have traveled via another Schengen area country
and like Manafort have multiple passports… both is possible…

Now the interesting thing about the Dossier is how much Steele didn’t find out…
for example, the dossier doesn’t mention Natalia Veselnitskaya who did arrange
the infamous Trump tower meeting on, June 16?..it doesn’t mention Papadolpolous
who has since pleaded guilty…

the problem with the entire GOP narrative about the dossier is how the FBI actually
became involved in this whole thing… in May 2016, during a night of heavy drinking,
Papadolpoulos, told the Australia’s ambassador to the UK, that Moscow had
thousands of emails that would embarrass Mrs. Clinton, stolen in an effort to try to
to damage her campaign… the Australian ambassador told his government who in
turned told the FBI… and then the FBI began to investigate both the Russian hacking itself
and the possible involvement of the IQ45 campaign which is before the FBI got the
dossier…so the link you are looking for happened BEFORE Steele took the dossier to
the FBI… this takes care of the dossier part of this rebuttal…

  • Steele paid Russian agents to collect dirt on Trump which means: CLINTON PAID RUSSIANS (VIA INTERMEDIARIES) TO INTERFERE IN THE ELECTIONS.

  • Steele contacted left-wing media and planted stories about Trump/Russian collusion.

  • The left-wing media ate it up and flooded the news outlets with fake news.

  • Steele then used the fake stories he leaked, and included them in his dossier to prove Trump was colluding with Russia – i.e. he quoted his own stories in the dossier to back up his fake narrative.

  • The Steele dossier included amateur research some of it seemingly lifted from Wikipedia, errors that were easily proven wrong (e.g. Page could not have met with Russians in Prague because he has NEVER been to Prague) and salacious stories like the one about Trump hating Obama so much that he hired the Moscow hotel room Obama stayed in and got prostitutes to piss on the bed Obama used etc.

  • Even though doubtful, the FBI accepted the information with almost NO VERIFICATION.

K: recall that the FBI was investigating this story BEFORE, getting the Dossier… so it was
just used as secondary information… and recall that to get a FISA warrant,
you need to get a sign off on a minimum of 6 FBI and Justice people… and every 90 days,
from a federal judge… if the FBI came to a FEDERAL judge with nothing, the judge
would have laughed them out of court… and in fact, it seems the judge did ask and was
told about the path of the dossier… which isn’t really relevant but one sole source
of information will not get you a FISA warrant…

  • The FBI then used the information (they believed to be largely untrue) to get a FISA spy warrant on Page (a Trump foreign affairs advisor) and thus by extension, spy on the communication going to and from Trump and his team.

  • The FBI didn’t tell the FISA court that the dossier was 1. virtually UNVERIFIED 2. written by a vehemently anti-Trump source with a history of lying or 3. that the source of the information used his own leaks to use in the dossier.

K: they did tell the judge and had to tell every single judge since then, recall, you
need to renew the FISA warrant every 90 days… and how do you know that steel is
an “vehemently anti-trump source with a history of lying”? inquiring minds want to know…

  • The FBI admitted under oath to Congress that they KNEW the information was fake. Knowing this, the FBI still used the fake information to extend their spy warrant on Page/Trump three times.

K: when? how do you know this?

This is NOT justice. Justice supposed to be blind; without fear or favour This is political bias in the extreme. For anyone who believes in the rule of law, an unbiased police and justice system and a functioning, fully-informed democracy, this should worry the shit out of you. If the Republicans were doing this shit to the Democrats, I have exactly the same response - no fear or favour. But this is beyond disgusting.
.
[/quote]
K: me thinks you are protesting too much… I really wonder why you are so
afraid of this investigation…but the real problem lies in the right’s remarkable
turnaround…the right now loves Russia and Putin and hates America and
its institutions… if you don’t hate America and its institutions, why do
you keep attacking the FBI and its work? Why do you insist on damaging
the credibility and work of the FBI? the government and its institutions can
only work if they have the full faith and trust of the american citizens
and by attacking the FBI in particular and intellegence agencies
in general, you are damaging America in a very real and profound way…and
not only the FBI, but the justice department has come under heavy attack
and all that does us undermined our judicial system but hay, if you hate
america so much as to undermine the entire political system, you can
always move to Mother Russia… I am sure Putin would love you to
undermine America… he might even put you on the payroll with IQ45 and
his minons…you can troll on internet sites like this and make money
defending IQ45… wait a minute, you troll this sites with nonsense
and you clearly hate america and its institutions, you are paid by Putin…
I have some questions, are you paid in Rubles or in dollars? What kind of
401k plan does Russia have? do you have a medical plan?..

Kropotkin