The Disease of More

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The Disease of More

Postby WW_III_ANGRY » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:14 pm

The quest for immortality has a long storied history. Leaders of empires, tyrants, those who have reached the apex of conquering life have in the past, been known to seek the "Elixir of Life". Some have drank gold, being that it is a substance that does not get tarnished. In short, people likely consumed gold and other bizarre potions seeking out immortality or longevity and only ended up shortening their life as a result. Of course, one thing why this is no longer really a thing is due to it being a scientifically falsifiable proposition.

Religion on the other hand, grants one the illusion of immortality and is not falsifiable, thus its success. The desire for more, more than what is possible or feasible or practical infects us all or at least a vast majority. The pain or detriment that people may cause themselves in search for more knows no bounds, essentially.

Buddha states that the root of suffering is desire, in so much that constantly trying to achieve happiness through "more" is an unsatisfactory and ultimately empty goal.
Human nature seems for the most part to have an unquenchable desire for more. Some might call it, "The Disease of More". The fact that religion is so successful in luring in those who cannot obtain more is evidence of this. It is no secret that those who have endured suffering find solace in religion, as the opposite of more has taken them to despair and it is quite easy to find the fantasy of "more" in religion.

Human nature is a double edged sword in this respect. We are very successful as a species due to this "Disease of More". We are also very foolish as well, and some might not be able to find solace, ever. Bottomless pits of consumption we may be. The lesson of being happy with what you have of course, easy to preach, easy to claim, but how much of that applies? The religious can claim it much easier due to the belief of some eternal happiness awaiting them.
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:53 am

"The Disease of More" may turn out to be the elixir?? :-)

"The weak do what they can, the strong do what they must."
Raven
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby Gloominary » Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:46 am

I work part time as a janitor.
I'm formally uneducated.
I'm single and I don't have any friends.
I don't have a car.
I share a two bedroom basement suite with my father.

I have my health, as far as I know, a nice bed, computer and television.
I like to read, write, watch videos and game.
For the most part I'm okay with my life.
If I really want more, i can get it, I don't want more.
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby WW_III_ANGRY » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:45 pm

Gloominary wrote:I work part time as a janitor.
I'm formally uneducated.
I'm single and I don't have any friends.
I don't have a car.
I share a two bedroom basement suite with my father.

I have my health, as far as I know, a nice bed, computer and television.
I like to read, write, watch videos and game.
For the most part I'm okay with my life.
If I really want more, i can get it, I don't want more.


I think I am in too deep due to having a family. I actually admire your situation to some extent. I would be happy to be able to live minimally, perhaps in a trailer park even that is paid off, where I just work and come home and have nothing else. But I have to provide and part of providing for my children is ensuring them to live in a good area, with a good education. Living in a lower class area is not for someone with kids, because the sickness of poverty infects the families and children and it brushes off on them in their ways, leading to further degeneration and a cycle of poverty for all, as those who you are surrounded with become those you aspire to.
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby Arcturus Descending » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:09 pm

Gloominary wrote:I work part time as a janitor.
I'm formally uneducated.
I'm single and I don't have any friends.
I don't have a car.
I share a two bedroom basement suite with my father.

I have my health, as far as I know, a nice bed, computer and television.
I like to read, write, watch videos and game.
For the most part I'm okay with my life.
If I really want more, i can get it, I don't want more.


For the most part....

If you at some point felt the urge to, what non-existent part as of yet would you add to your life to make it feel more complete ~~ if you ever felt the urge to?
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby Gloominary » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:59 pm

WW_III_ANGRY wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I work part time as a janitor.
I'm formally uneducated.
I'm single and I don't have any friends.
I don't have a car.
I share a two bedroom basement suite with my father.

I have my health, as far as I know, a nice bed, computer and television.
I like to read, write, watch videos and game.
For the most part I'm okay with my life.
If I really want more, i can get it, I don't want more.


I think I am in too deep due to having a family. I actually admire your situation to some extent. I would be happy to be able to live minimally, perhaps in a trailer park even that is paid off, where I just work and come home and have nothing else. But I have to provide and part of providing for my children is ensuring them to live in a good area, with a good education. Living in a lower class area is not for someone with kids, because the sickness of poverty infects the families and children and it brushes off on them in their ways, leading to further degeneration and a cycle of poverty for all, as those who you are surrounded with become those you aspire to.

It's human nature/nurture to want what we don't have.
Sometimes the guy with a full time job, mortgage, nice car and so on wishes he had less, and fewer responsibilities, sometimes the guy with less wishes he had more.
You could buy/rent an apartment in a decent neighborhood, or you could live in a co-op, they tend to be both cheaper and more family oriented.
It's kind of a North American thing to think everyone ought to live in the suburbs and buy a house if they can.
For example most people in wealthy Germany live in apartments, many of them middle class families.
Anyway there's pros and cons to practically everything.
Do you think the disease of more is a product of nature, or nurture?
Myself I think it's a combination.
It also depends on the individual/society, some individuals/societies are greedier than others.
Last edited by Gloominary on Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby Gloominary » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:04 pm

Arcturus Descending wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I work part time as a janitor.
I'm formally uneducated.
I'm single and I don't have any friends.
I don't have a car.
I share a two bedroom basement suite with my father.

I have my health, as far as I know, a nice bed, computer and television.
I like to read, write, watch videos and game.
For the most part I'm okay with my life.
If I really want more, i can get it, I don't want more.


For the most part....

If you at some point felt the urge to, what non-existent part as of yet would you add to your life to make it feel more complete ~~ if you ever felt the urge to?

Sometimes I wish I made a little more money, so I could afford to live on my own.
Sometimes I wish I had a girlfriend.
But other than that, I'm okay, I've never been interested in material things, and I've already managed to do a little traveling, not that traveling interests me much.
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:15 pm

Gloominary wrote:I work part time as a janitor.
I'm formally uneducated.
I'm single and I don't have any friends.
I don't have a car.
I share a two bedroom basement suite with my father.

I have my health, as far as I know, a nice bed, computer and television.
I like to read, write, watch videos and game.
For the most part I'm okay with my life.
If I really want more, i can get it, I don't want more.


K: I dumped my friends... not because they are bad friends or anything,
they were the best, but, I needed to be alone to concentrate
on my reading and study and philosophizing.... my wife
is always on my case about this, but dam, I gotta do what
I gotta do even if I am lonely as hell later.... sometimes, one
must sacrifice in the name of philosophy.... I will pay the price
for my sacrifice later, but that will be later....for now, I think
and study and philosophize.... dam the rest....

Kropotkin
"Those who sacrifice liberty for security
wind up with neither."
"Ben Franklin"
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby WW_III_ANGRY » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:46 am

Gloominary wrote:
WW_III_ANGRY wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I work part time as a janitor.
I'm formally uneducated.
I'm single and I don't have any friends.
I don't have a car.
I share a two bedroom basement suite with my father.

I have my health, as far as I know, a nice bed, computer and television.
I like to read, write, watch videos and game.
For the most part I'm okay with my life.
If I really want more, i can get it, I don't want more.


I think I am in too deep due to having a family. I actually admire your situation to some extent. I would be happy to be able to live minimally, perhaps in a trailer park even that is paid off, where I just work and come home and have nothing else. But I have to provide and part of providing for my children is ensuring them to live in a good area, with a good education. Living in a lower class area is not for someone with kids, because the sickness of poverty infects the families and children and it brushes off on them in their ways, leading to further degeneration and a cycle of poverty for all, as those who you are surrounded with become those you aspire to.

It's human nature/nurture to want what we don't have.
Sometimes the guy with a full time job, mortgage, nice car and so on wishes he had less, and fewer responsibilities, sometimes the guy with less wishes he had more.
You could buy/rent an apartment in a decent neighborhood, or you could live in a co-op, they tend to be both cheaper and more family oriented.
It's kind of a North American thing to think everyone ought to live in the suburbs and buy a house if they can.
For example most people in wealthy Germany live in apartments, many of them middle class families.
Anyway there's pros and cons to practically everything.
Do you think the disease of more is a product of nature, or nurture?
Myself I think it's a combination.
It also depends on the individual/society, some individuals/societies are greedier than others.


I don't know of much that is strictly a product of nature, or strictly a product of nurture when it comes to human behavior.
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:58 am

@WW3

I don't know of much that is strictly a product of nature, or strictly a product of nurture when it comes to human behavior.

Of course, I meant which one do you think is more culpable?
Last edited by Gloominary on Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby Gloominary » Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:01 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:
Gloominary wrote:I work part time as a janitor.
I'm formally uneducated.
I'm single and I don't have any friends.
I don't have a car.
I share a two bedroom basement suite with my father.

I have my health, as far as I know, a nice bed, computer and television.
I like to read, write, watch videos and game.
For the most part I'm okay with my life.
If I really want more, i can get it, I don't want more.


K: I dumped my friends... not because they are bad friends or anything,
they were the best, but, I needed to be alone to concentrate
on my reading and study and philosophizing.... my wife
is always on my case about this, but dam, I gotta do what
I gotta do even if I am lonely as hell later.... sometimes, one
must sacrifice in the name of philosophy.... I will pay the price
for my sacrifice later, but that will be later....for now, I think
and study and philosophize.... dam the rest....

Kropotkin

I used to have friends, but we grew apart.
One of them was more into music, where as I was more into philosophy and related interests.
The other, our lifestyles were too different, he was aspiring to be middle class.
I used to have a girlfriend, we were going to get married, but she was too bossy/controlling for me, among other things.
Last edited by Gloominary on Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:13 am

Very interesting posts ... for me, they point to the big picture.

1) The history of medicine tells us the disease always precedes the cure ... who needs a cure when there is no disease. OK the disease of more on occasion debunks this argument ... another story.

2) The cures for individual diseases became building blocks for the cures of more complex diseases.

3) One might conclude the "Disease of More" will be followed by a cure. Several members of ILP are in the vanguard of this movement. ergo ... they have consciously recognized the relentless pursuit of more as a very serious disease.

4) The unpopular austerity programs in Europe also point to this same conscious recognition. The problem is the enforcers of theses austerity programs are immune from their unpleasantness ... ergo their lifestyles remain intact during the storm.
"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

Thomas Kempis 1380-1471
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby Arcturus Descending » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:25 pm

Gloominary,


Sometimes I wish I made a little more money, so I could afford to live on my own.
Sometimes I wish I had a girlfriend.

But other than that, I'm okay, I've never been interested in material things, and I've already managed to do a little traveling, not that traveling interests me much.


Could something be holding you back? You could always get another part-time job which might add more interest to your life.
Do you have any female friends?
Obviously, you do not have to answer these questions if you think I am being too curious.

Perhaps if a *wish* is there something might be trying to push itself through.
“How can a bird that is born for joy
Sit in a cage and sing?”
― William Blake


“Little Fly
Thy summers play,
My thoughtless hand
Has brush'd away.

Am not I
A fly like thee?
Or art not thou
A man like me?

For I dance
And drink & sing:
Till some blind hand
Shall brush my wing.

If thought is life
And strength & breath:
And the want
Of thought is death;

Then am I
A happy fly,
If I live,
Or if I die”
― William Blake, Songs of Innocence and of Experience


“No bird soars too high if he soars with his own wings.”
― William Blake
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby Gloominary » Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:59 pm

It feels good to be lazy.
It feels good to do nothing, or to only do things you really enjoy/feel like doing, and things requiring little-no effort.
As long as you have your physical, and mental health, it feels good just to be, to exist.
I'd rather have everything I need, and a few things I really want and get the most out of them, than a lot of things, and scarcely have time/energy to use them.
It's not natural for me at least to want more, or it's not natural for me to sacrifice a lot of time/energy to get it, doing things I don't want to do, I'd have to push myself a lot.
Perhaps it comes more naturally to most people, or maybe they've just chose to push themselves harder than me.
I've always been this way, stubborn, I only do what I really have to, or want to do.

People would be surprised how little they have to do, if they commit to it, if you cut back on expenditures and/or cheat the system.
For example I found a job I only have to work a quarter-half the time I'm there.
And I can do anything I want there, so long as I do some work, I can go to the library, or to a café/eatery when I 'should', or when they want me to be working.
There's no one looking over my shoulder, I work at my own pace, which's is at times a snail's.
I also have these magical, things, that've allowed me to live comfortably for years, altho they will run out some day.

Many-most people think our system is corrupt, so why not be corrupt yourself?
If you can get away with it, why not cheat the banks, corporations and government as much as they cheat us?

All of this is not to say I'm happy, I'm not, I'm not sad either, I'm not entirely fulfilled, but who is?
Some days I feel good, some days so-so.
But I'm in no rush, when I want a little more, I'll get it, so long as I'm still around.

There's costs/benefits to practically everything, people mainly think of the benefit, they don't count the cost.
Society is trying to sell us things all the time, but it's buyer beware.
I just find most things aren't worth the trouble, they have a lot of trade-offs/draw-backs.
Society wants to sell a ton, because it wants to buy a ton, but you're not obliged.
If you'd rather have a lot of free time than a lot of stuff, or vice versa, it's your call, up to you.

There's another way.
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Re: The Disease of More

Postby Gloominary » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:43 pm

@Arc

Could something be holding you back? You could always get another part-time job which might add more interest to your life.

Work is holding me back from itself, I don't like work.
Also, the more I work, the less time I have for my health, hobbies and interests, like philosophy and writing.
I've worked full time before, and will work full time again when I'm ready.

Do you have any female friends?

I don't have any friends.
I was friends with my ex for a while after we broke up, but we had to part ways, because we weren't moving on emotionally.

Obviously, you do not have to answer these questions if you think I am being too curious.

It's okay, thanks for being considerate.

Perhaps if a *wish* is there something might be trying to push itself through.

You're right, sometimes I hold myself back from philosophy and writing because I lack confidence.
I think most people won't get me, or my stuff, because they won't be able to relate to it.
Sometimes I feel really alienated from people.
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