Is God competent or incompetent?

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Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:52 pm

Is God competent or incompetent?

We are told in scriptures that evil begets evil and good begets good. God, as our creator, according to scriptures, creates us all as sinners, which many see as evil.

God can thus be seen and judged as being the original sinner since the fruits of his labor (us) went bad or are born bad. A tree is known by its fruits. What else could come from a sinner tree but sin?

I give God a fail on competence for the following reasons.
God created heaven that produced Satan. Fail.
God created Eden which produced Original Sin. Fail.
God had to reboot creation with Noah’s flood. Fail.
God sent his son to forgive mankind instead of stepping up himself. Fail, for moral reasons.
God also had to create hell for his rejects which scriptures say will be the vast majority of us. Fail.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds and if we believe that, then the Christian God would obviously be rejected by Jesus and agree with my fail judgement.

Do you agree?

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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Carleas » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:21 pm

Sounds a bit like condemning a cake for the broken eggs.

By which I mean, if those negatives are a necessary part of a perfect creation, it would be misleading to look only at them and not to the role they play in the larger whole.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:23 pm

Carleas wrote:Sounds a bit like condemning a cake for the broken eggs.

By which I mean, if those negatives are a necessary part of a perfect creation, it would be misleading to look only at them and not to the role they play in the larger whole.


If Satan and Original Sin etc. are necessary to perfect the whole, why does or did God react so negatively to them and condemn Satan and A & E to hell?

If they are necessary then God should embrace them as a part of the whole. No?

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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:36 pm

why does or did God react so negatively to them and condemn Satan and A & E to hell?

Hell? All were tossed out of Heaven, being tossed out of Heaven doesn't equate to being condemned to Hell. A & E were relegated to Earth and Satan made the Underworld for himself or am I mistaken?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:50 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
why does or did God react so negatively to them and condemn Satan and A & E to hell?

Hell? All were tossed out of Heaven, being tossed out of Heaven doesn't equate to being condemned to Hell. A & E were relegated to Earth and Satan made the Underworld for himself or am I mistaken?


That is herself if you look at Michelangelo's painting of the fall in the Vatican collection. Satan is clearly portrayed as female. You might wonder why. Hint. Misogyny.

Are you suggesting that Satan is a co-creator to God and able to create without his O K? Is Satan also a creator?

If being tossed from heaven to some place other than hell, where do you think Satan is supposed to ends up at the end of days?

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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Jan 18, 2018 6:16 pm

If being tossed from heaven to some place other than hell, where do you think Satan is supposed to ends up at the end of days?

There are several dimensions or planes of mindful existence beyond the three mentioned (Heaven, Hell, Earth).

Are you suggesting that Satan is a co-creator to God and able to create without his O K? Is Satan also a creator?

Where does it say that Satan is not able to create?
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:12 pm

WendyDarling wrote:
If being tossed from heaven to some place other than hell, where do you think Satan is supposed to ends up at the end of days?

There are several dimensions or planes of mindful existence beyond the three mentioned (Heaven, Hell, Earth).

Are you suggesting that Satan is a co-creator to God and able to create without his O K? Is Satan also a creator?


Where does it say that Satan is not able to create?


Where does it say that she can?

Dogma says there is only one initial creator.

You have made up your own ideology, which I do not recognize, so coherent communication will be hard to find here as you can invent as you go.

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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby WendyDarling » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:26 pm

How many people have to attest to the existence of something for you to believe them even though you have to take their word for it since you have not physically experienced said place or things existence? Realize that you have not personally experienced most aspects of existence yet you still believe they exist.

Dogma says there is only one initial creator.

I don't dispute that, God was alone. Then he created Lucifer, his first "living" companion creation. The Bible doesn't say one way or the other whether Lucifer could create. Since we can create, I am willing to make the leap that Lucifer can create even more than we can since he has more abilities than we do and has existed millenia before human creation was even an urge.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:40 pm

WendyDarling wrote:How many people have to attest to the existence of something for you to believe them even though you have to take their word for it since you have not physically experienced said place or things existence? Realize that you have not personally experienced most aspects of existence yet you still believe they exist.

Dogma says there is only one initial creator.

I don't dispute that, God was alone. Then he created Lucifer, his first "living" companion creation. The Bible doesn't say one way or the other whether Lucifer could create. Since we can create, I am willing to make the leap that Lucifer can create even more than we can since he has more abilities than we do and has existed millenia before human creation was even an urge.


You have nothing to show the reality of what you are saying.

I do not know where you wish to go from here.

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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Jan 26, 2018 2:46 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Carleas wrote:Sounds a bit like condemning a cake for the broken eggs.

By which I mean, if those negatives are a necessary part of a perfect creation, it would be misleading to look only at them and not to the role they play in the larger whole.


If Satan and Original Sin etc. are necessary to perfect the whole, why does or did God react so negatively to them and condemn Satan and A & E to hell?

If they are necessary then God should embrace them as a part of the whole. No?

Regards
DL
ONe coudl argue, speculate, that he sends them to hell because that is where they function best for the perfection of creation. And they are embraced in the sense that they exist, are included in the whole. You know there are experts in human disciplines who will do things that you would think are counterintuitive. Engineers, mathematicians, literarcy critics, whoever. People with fields of expertise you do not have any in. A little humility in relation to them would lead you to be cautious when you 'prove' that they are not building bridges, developing theorums, analyzing novels, fighting epidemics, whatever in the correct way. How much more so in the discussion of a deity. If presented as questions, potential faults, seeming contradictions, your posts could be useful. But when presented as I CAN PROVE THAT GOD IS IRRATIONAL or does not exist, it just comes off as hubris.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:38 pm

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
Carleas wrote:Sounds a bit like condemning a cake for the broken eggs.

By which I mean, if those negatives are a necessary part of a perfect creation, it would be misleading to look only at them and not to the role they play in the larger whole.


If Satan and Original Sin etc. are necessary to perfect the whole, why does or did God react so negatively to them and condemn Satan and A & E to hell?

If they are necessary then God should embrace them as a part of the whole. No?

Regards
DL
ONe coudl argue, speculate, that he sends them to hell because that is where they function best for the perfection of creation. And they are embraced in the sense that they exist, are included in the whole. You know there are experts in human disciplines who will do things that you would think are counterintuitive. Engineers, mathematicians, literarcy critics, whoever. People with fields of expertise you do not have any in. A little humility in relation to them would lead you to be cautious when you 'prove' that they are not building bridges, developing theorums, analyzing novels, fighting epidemics, whatever in the correct way. How much more so in the discussion of a deity. If presented as questions, potential faults, seeming contradictions, your posts could be useful. But when presented as I CAN PROVE THAT GOD IS IRRATIONAL or does not exist, it just comes off as hubris.


How does God's purposeless torturing of souls in hell make those souls function at their best?

I do not think I ever said I can prove something about God. The one described as supernatural cannot have anything proven of him as he likely does not exist.

I like that you like analyzing what is written of God. You seem to think I made a definitive statements while I just asked a question.

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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Karpel Tunnel » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:25 pm

Greatest I am wrote:How does God's purposeless torturing of souls in hell make those souls function at their best?
Did you not understand my post? I thought I made it clear that answering such questions is problematic?

I do not think I ever said I can prove something about God.
You present arguments as if one can deduce conclusions. That it is logical to make the claims you make. You do not express uncertainty.

The one described as supernatural cannot have anything proven of him as he likely does not exist.
But this is what you do over and over. Present arguments as if you are demonstrating that if there was a God, he would be evil, imperfect, misguided, whatever the argument of the moment.

I like that you like analyzing what is written of God. You seem to think I made a definitive statements while I just asked a question.
How can I have a serious conversation with someone who does not even know what he or she is doing?
For example....
We are told in scriptures that evil begets evil and good begets good. God, as our creator, according to scriptures, creates us all as sinners, which many see as evil.

God can thus be seen and judged as being the original sinner since the fruits of his labor (us) went bad or are born bad. A tree is known by its fruits. What else could come from a sinner tree but sin?

I give God a fail on competence for the following reasons.
God created heaven that produced Satan. Fail.
God created Eden which produced Original Sin. Fail.
God had to reboot creation with Noah’s flood. Fail.
God sent his son to forgive mankind instead of stepping up himself. Fail, for moral reasons.
God also had to create hell for his rejects which scriptures say will be the vast majority of us. Fail.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds and if we believe that, then the Christian God would obviously be rejected by Jesus and agree with my fail judgement.


Seriously. Take some time to mull over how you do not know what you are doing. You present arguments as if you can logical conclude certain things. Deduction involved, generally, proofs.

And I notice you do not take up the issue of experts I raised.

I shant be reading your stuff anymore of youf since you FAIL to respond in an honorable, self-aware manner.
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Re: Is God competent or incompetent?

Postby Greatest I am » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:07 pm

You seem to want to discuss style over what I put and refuse to clear up your own statements.

Pointless.

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