Half Life

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Re: Half Life

Postby surreptitious75 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:06 pm

Gloominary wrote:
There is no point to life

Not in any objective sense but you can still give subjective meaning to your life
But it is not compulsory for it is up to every individual to decide for themselves
So if you think that there is no point to your life then for you that must be true
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Half Life

Postby Prismatic567 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:54 am

Gloominary wrote:
Noted your points but most it deal with the fringes of the core, i.e. re,
...
So you see, another reason why it can't only be about survival.

I agree survival is one of, if not the prerogative, but it exists alongside many other prerogatives, it isn't, can't and shouldn't be an absolute, a very important consideration, yes, but not absolute.
I had stated there is no absolute meaning in the teleological sense, like one that is bestow and commanded by a God.

But within all available empirical evidence throughout evolution of all living things to the present, the core meaning of life is survival and procreation and maintenance of the next generation.

You listed many deviations from the above core purposes but they actually have no impact because nature has taken care of that and provided for assurances in terms of operating in large numbers. I stated the suicide rate is 0.034% for every 100,000 people, so the per annum is not critical in this case. Nature has taken care of the risk, even if say 50% decide to commit suicide we still have 3.5+ billion of ensure the preservation of the species. It is the same for the other deviations.

Yes, there were no species earlier, the essence is survival, self-preservation and extension to the next generation [including asexual reproduction] is inherent in living things.

Thus it is critical we understand survival and producing the next generation is the core meaning of life. In addition we need to understand what are the support systems within us that are critical to core. Then we must flow spontaneously with these critical elements.
Note FLOW;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

wiki wrote:In positive psychology, flow, also known as the zone, is the mental state of operation in which a person performing an activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity. In essence, flow is characterized by complete absorption in what one does, and a resulting loss in one's sense of space and time.


The other is peak experience:
Wiki wrote:A peak experience is a moment accompanied by a euphoric mental state often achieved by self-actualizing individuals.[1] The concept was originally developed by Abraham Maslow in 1964, who describes peak experiences as "rare, exciting, oceanic, deeply moving, exhilarating, elevating experiences that generate an advanced form of perceiving reality, and are even mystic and magical in their effect upon the experimenter."[2][3] There are several unique characteristics of a peak experience, but each element is perceived together in a holistic manner that creates the moment of reaching one’s full potential.[4] Peak experiences can range from simple activities to intense events;[5][6] however, it is not necessarily about what the activity is, but the ecstatic, blissful feeling that is being experienced during it.[7]


Thus there are feedback, check and control points to guide whether one is flowing along with a meaningful holistic life.

Your counter as above,
since element/process X is part of the survival, then maximixing this input and process will maximize survival and meaningful life;
is a wrong view.
There is always an optimal level of input and a holistic approach.
Note Diminishing Marginal Returns from economics;

Wiki wrote:In economics, diminishing returns is the decrease in the marginal (incremental) output of a production process as the amount of a single factor of production is incrementally increased, while the amounts of all other factors of production stay constant.


Like it or not, all humans are like a "servomechanism" and to be most effective one has no choice but to understand and adopt what the empirical-based meaningful purpose of life [with reasonable room for deviation] to avoid pains and to achieve flow, peak experiences and self-actualization.

As for a meteor that could appear suddenly in sight, fortunately due to the survival impulse, humans has progressed exponentially in knowledge and technology to the extent we have the potential to take care of meteors that come our way in the near future.

America is unprepared for a killer asteroid impact and must accelerate 'doomsday plan' to develop bombs and robot spacecraft to save Earth, White House report claims:

    The US government has released a detailed plan for defending from asteroids
    Document says the country's capabilities for defence are 'currently lacking'
    It outlines seven main goals for officials to work towards, to help prepare
    An asteroid or meteor could hit our planet with little or no warning, and cause disastrous consequences


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z54DdItZCV



As for other threats not anticipated and beyond our means to tackle, we have to accept that possibility but at least we have try our very best driven by the impulse to survive at all costs which is the implicit purpose toward a meaningful life.
We have to apply philosophy-proper to abstract this reality and make it explicit to all humans.

Your OP's theme and hypothesis is not recommendable for humanity. If that is really so, then we all might as well take poison now and end it all instead of going through a meaningless life that is full of sufferings.
I am a progressive human being, a World Citizen, NOT-a-theist and not religious.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:47 am

Prismatic567 wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
Noted your points but most it deal with the fringes of the core, i.e. re,
...
So you see, another reason why it can't only be about survival.

I agree survival is one of, if not the prerogative, but it exists alongside many other prerogatives, it isn't, can't and shouldn't be an absolute, a very important consideration, yes, but not absolute.
I had stated there is no absolute meaning in the teleological sense, like one that is bestow and commanded by a God.

But within all available empirical evidence throughout evolution of all living things to the present, the core meaning of life is survival and procreation and maintenance of the next generation.

You listed many deviations from the above core purposes but they actually have no impact because nature has taken care of that and provided for assurances in terms of operating in large numbers. I stated the suicide rate is 0.034% for every 100,000 people, so the per annum is not critical in this case. Nature has taken care of the risk, even if say 50% decide to commit suicide we still have 3.5+ billion of ensure the preservation of the species. It is the same for the other deviations.

Yes, there were no species earlier, the essence is survival, self-preservation and extension to the next generation [including asexual reproduction] is inherent in living things.

Thus it is critical we understand survival and producing the next generation is the core meaning of life. In addition we need to understand what are the support systems within us that are critical to core. Then we must flow spontaneously with these critical elements.
Note FLOW;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)

wiki wrote:In positive psychology, flow, also known as the zone, is the mental state of operation in which a person performing an activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity. In essence, flow is characterized by complete absorption in what one does, and a resulting loss in one's sense of space and time.


The other is peak experience:
Wiki wrote:A peak experience is a moment accompanied by a euphoric mental state often achieved by self-actualizing individuals.[1] The concept was originally developed by Abraham Maslow in 1964, who describes peak experiences as "rare, exciting, oceanic, deeply moving, exhilarating, elevating experiences that generate an advanced form of perceiving reality, and are even mystic and magical in their effect upon the experimenter."[2][3] There are several unique characteristics of a peak experience, but each element is perceived together in a holistic manner that creates the moment of reaching one’s full potential.[4] Peak experiences can range from simple activities to intense events;[5][6] however, it is not necessarily about what the activity is, but the ecstatic, blissful feeling that is being experienced during it.[7]


Thus there are feedback, check and control points to guide whether one is flowing along with a meaningful holistic life.

Your counter as above,
since element/process X is part of the survival, then maximixing this input and process will maximize survival and meaningful life;
is a wrong view.
There is always an optimal level of input and a holistic approach.
Note Diminishing Marginal Returns from economics;

Wiki wrote:In economics, diminishing returns is the decrease in the marginal (incremental) output of a production process as the amount of a single factor of production is incrementally increased, while the amounts of all other factors of production stay constant.


Like it or not, all humans are like a "servomechanism" and to be most effective one has no choice but to understand and adopt what the empirical-based meaningful purpose of life [with reasonable room for deviation] to avoid pains and to achieve flow, peak experiences and self-actualization.

As for a meteor that could appear suddenly in sight, fortunately due to the survival impulse, humans has progressed exponentially in knowledge and technology to the extent we have the potential to take care of meteors that come our way in the near future.

America is unprepared for a killer asteroid impact and must accelerate 'doomsday plan' to develop bombs and robot spacecraft to save Earth, White House report claims:

    The US government has released a detailed plan for defending from asteroids
    Document says the country's capabilities for defence are 'currently lacking'
    It outlines seven main goals for officials to work towards, to help prepare
    An asteroid or meteor could hit our planet with little or no warning, and cause disastrous consequences


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z54DdItZCV



As for other threats not anticipated and beyond our means to tackle, we have to accept that possibility but at least we have try our very best driven by the impulse to survive at all costs which is the implicit purpose toward a meaningful life.
We have to apply philosophy-proper to abstract this reality and make it explicit to all humans.

Your OP's theme and hypothesis is not recommendable for humanity. If that is really so, then we all might as well take poison now and end it all instead of going through a meaningless life that is full of sufferings.

Okay sweetheart, good luck.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:51 am

surreptitious75 wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
There is no point to life

Not in any objective sense but you can still give subjective meaning to your life
But it is not compulsory for it is up to every individual to decide for themselves
So if you think that there is no point to your life then for you that must be true

While purposes are subjective, they're also mostly predetermined, by millions of years of biological evolution, by thousands of years of cultural evolution, and by decades of nurturing: environmental, social, and, self conditioning, making decisions and forming habits.
You can't just dispel all that with a flick of a light switch, on a whim, or some abstract piece of philosophical reasoning, I mean you can try......

And the sum total of these purposes are a big part of what make you, you.

At most all we can do is recombine and direct these purposes in various ways.
We can't invent lasting purpose in a vacuum, ex nihilo, it has to come out of our thoughts and feelings about ourselves and the world, and these thoughts and feelings themselves don't come from nowhere.

So we don't have a whole lot of choice in regards to our purposes...we have some choice.
We're already here, pretty much fully formed, there's no such thing as wiping the slate clean, starting from scratch.
If we want to get anywhere, we have to use the momentum in and behind ourselves and the world.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:09 pm

@Wrong

Nihilism is a form of delusion by which any individual or person attempts to 'negate' (destroy) the world "as it is".

Nihilism can also be collective and impersonal.
That's not how I define nihilism, what you're describing is escapism, or wishful thinking to me.
Nihilism isn't a very important word or concept to me, but I guess I'd define it as a kind of radical ethical or epistemological skepticism or subjectivism.
I'm a nihilist on both counts then, ethical and epistemological, especially the former, but also the latter.
While people can acknowledge their ethics, morals, values, meaning, purpose and so on are subjective, because of the nature of the world, how there's a flip or downside, often necessarily, to practically everything we value, I also define myself as a realist, some might say pessimist.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:23 pm

A lot of rich and 'successful', in their minds and the minds of many onlookers, people are chronically trying to reinvent themselves, their lives and the world.
That's arguably a kind of 'nihilism' in the sense you mean or escapism, wishful thinking, because they're perpetually discontent and dissatisfied, where as many poor people accept their lot.
The rich and 'powerful' have their utopian dreams and schemes too, about peace, prosperity and life extension technologies.
They think they or future generations can bring these things about, that humanity, or at least the elite, is progressing into a kind of divinity or godhood via science, social engineering and tech.
They call themselves post or transhumanists.
It's arguably a kind of faith or delusion like any other.
These rich, power mad people are always chasing ideas and ideals, revolting against what is.
Always busy, bouncing from one place to the next.
They get cosmetic surgery, they accumulate money and stuff they don't need or even seldom, if ever use, they live for the applaud and appraise of others and their public image or façade.
The real, or what is, is always something to overcome, a bridge, a means, rarely is it valued for its own sake.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Arcturus Descending » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:03 pm

Gloominary wrote:
WendyDarling wrote:
There is no point in to life.
Fundamentally your life isn't progressing.

Learning isn't progressing?

Learning is often regressing.
Learning takes time and energy.
It's better to conserve resources and energy than to squander them.
A lot of things don't need to be known.
You don't need to know what your friend's friend's friend is eating for breakfast in Alaska.
You don't need to know how many moons orbit Jupiter, or what their names are.
You may enjoy learning about these things, but often the more we learn about the world, the more depressed we are, as individuals and as a species, because the world can be a horrible place.
Newtonian and Darwinian cosmology and genealogy were more depressing than the cosmologies and genealogies that came before them, and what have we really gained from adopting this worldview, even if it's closer to the truth?
Did Odin not have to give up his eye for wisdom?
Did Pandora not unleash many evils upon the world?
Humans may damage or destroy themselvs and nature in a scientific experiment.
Modernity itself is a kind of scientific and sociological experiment gone awry.


You still did not answer her question.
Isn't learning progressing or evolving?

There's no such thing as a one sided coin, but that hasn't stopped many of us from trying to find one.


As to the second part of that, wouldn't YOU yourself be one of those who are looking for the one-sided coin ~~ in not also seeing learning as progressing?
Try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, Mr. Gloomy.
Joseph Joubert ~~

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.


The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.


“We love repose of mind so well, that we are arrested by anything which has even the appearance of truth; and so we fall asleep on clouds.”


You have to be like the pebble in the stream, keeping the grain and rolling along without being dissolved or dissolving anything else.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:11 pm

@Arc

You still did not answer her question.
Isn't learning progressing or evolving?

I did answer her question, sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
Sometimes knowing stuff helps us, sometimes it doesn't.

And in some senses it is, and in some senses it isn't.
The more I learn, the less important stuff there is for me to learn.
The more satiated we are, the less we do.
The less we do, the less ourselves we are.
Without wonder, there is no philosophy or science.
Without mystery, there's nothing to wonder about.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:14 pm

As to the second part of that, wouldn't YOU yourself be one of those who are looking for the one-sided coin ~~ in not also seeing learning as progressing?
Try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater, Mr. Gloomy.

I overemphasize the negative, only to compensate, because the positive is typically overemphasized, as it was in her post.
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Re: Half Life

Postby MagsJ » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:16 pm

Gloominary, have you had any injections in the last 6 to 12 months, or medications? ...just a thought. :-k
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:23 pm

MagsJ wrote:Gloominary, have you had any injections in the last 6 to 12 months, or medications? ...just a thought. :-k

*Laughs, no, what're you trying to say? :lol: :-?
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Re: Half Life

Postby Arcturus Descending » Wed Jan 24, 2018 5:22 pm

Gloominary


I did answer her question, sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.


I suppose that you did in your own way. You did say OFTEN.

Sometimes knowing stuff helps us, sometimes it doesn't.


That has also been my experience. I think the phrase "Curiosity killed the cat" works here.
Sometimes knowing stuff can be detrimental.
Think of the I or the Self as a block of wood. The nihilist within me at times needs to whittle it down, to form and shape it in a way where the person can be made more "real".
We do not really need to have so much excess baggage become a part of us.


The more I learn, the less important stuff there is for me to learn.


Do you mean that you are able to see value in what is important and what is not?
It has also been my experience that *this or that* is really not that important.
It is like cleaning house. The more junk which we once thought as valuable and important can be thrown away to give way to more *inner* space insofar as the self goes.
How freeing that can be, right?

The more satiated we are, the less we do.


Hmm... I am not so sure of that. Wouldn't that necessarily depend on the *individual*?
Some could never be satiated and others may be for a time. Balance! I may be wrong here.
We are all different in a way.


The less we do, the less ourselves we are.


But on the other side of that coin, doing less might make ourselves more of who we truly are, not less so ~~ unless you are speaking of plain old laziness and apathy

Without wonder, there is no philosophy or science.


I firmly attest to that! Without wonder there is no mystery or thirst for knowledge, no *real* magic within the world (not the witch's brew).


Without mystery, there's nothing to wonder about.

Well, couldn't you still wonder about what you already know? Everything is not set in stone.
Consider everything which we have learned which has more or less turned out to be wrong.
If we hadn't wondered or re-considered, where would knowledge?

Actually, you are not the gloominary which you call yourself albeit there is the candle which surrounds the gloom though I would not necessarily call the darkness gloom.
It can be quite beautiful...the darkness that is.
Joseph Joubert ~~

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.


The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.


“We love repose of mind so well, that we are arrested by anything which has even the appearance of truth; and so we fall asleep on clouds.”


You have to be like the pebble in the stream, keeping the grain and rolling along without being dissolved or dissolving anything else.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Anomaly654 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:07 pm

Gloominary wrote:There is no point to life.
Fundamentally your life isn't progressing.
Life is a mix of opposing qualities: birth and death, growth and decay, joy and sorrow, desire and satisfaction.
If there was a point to life, which I don't think there is, it'd be to embrace all these states of being, or to embrace nothing at all.
There's no such thing as a one sided coin, but that hasn't stopped many of us from trying to find one.

Does pleasure not imply pain, does drunkenness not imply sobriety?
Every direction you can travel in: north, west, up, there is an opposing direction: south, east, down.
Likewise, birth, growth, joy and so on, are directions, there a towards something we, think we want, or an away from something we don't want, we hope.
The only way to do away with negativity, at least for yourself and those within capacity to affect, is to wholeheartedly embrace it, embrace annihilation.
Could it have possibly been any other way?
It doesn't matter, this is the way things are.

But is it really a case of 999 steps back, and 1000 steps forward, or vice versa?
How can you tell, who knows?
Are things really traveling more northernly than southernly?

The famine makes the feast all the more necessary, vibrant and stimulating.
We appreciate the good times after the hard times, all the more, but likewise, we lament at the loss of the good times, if they were really very good, all the more, and round and round it goes.

There's nothing original about what I'm saying, it's been said a million times before, in nearly the same way.
There's nothing even especially nuanced about it.
Even pointing out how little nuance it has, isn't that nuanced.

How can one be nuanced in our modern world, where everyone is now a writer?
The more people there are, the more people writing there are, the less you matter, the less you matter as a writer.
The more everyone can say something, the more need there is to bite ones tongue.
But then when did human of all animal beings do anything because we needed to, in even the loosest sense of the word need?

People think you must be whole hearted about life...but you can be half hearted, you can give half your heart to things and to people, and keep the other half for yourself, or for no one and nothing, because it rarely turns out like you planned, for the good, or the better.
I think it's good to have lots of reservations about anything you get into, to hold back, or at least it suits me.
Maybe fewer things in life are actually worth doing, or doing them to the max, than people think.

But there's no one way to do life, aside from the bare essentials, which we must all partake in, there's a million ways to do it, and this makes for a lot of ambiguity, ambivalence and arguing.
It also makes things more interesting.

What do you think, should life be lived head on?
Give it your all, or nothing at all, or can it be half lived, should it be, with one foot in this world, and the other in nothing or the 'next', if there is such a thing?
These days everyone seems to think there's many ways to live life, but no one seems to think suicide, or a sort of suicide of the heart, is one of them, why not?

But if one only gives half their heart, or energy to things, what does on do with the remainder?

Dude. I think I figured out why you've adopted the username Gloominary. There's only like 12 days of warm weather in Canada per year. Move to Tallahassee or someplace warm for a while, I'm betting your repost of the same subject will reveal a new vigor for life. Just my two cents.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:13 am

@Anomaly

Dude. I think I figured out why you've adopted the username Gloominary. There's only like 12 days of warm weather in Canada per year. Move to Tallahassee or someplace warm for a while, I'm betting your repost of the same subject will reveal a new vigor for life. Just my two cents.

While Vancouver Canada, where I'm from, isn't much cooler than Seattle and hardly receives any snow, we receive twice as much rain as London England, so that might partly explain my gloominosity.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:12 am

Arc

That has also been my experience. I think the phrase "Curiosity killed the cat" works here

Precisely, I was thinking that exact, phrase too. :lol:

Think of the I or the Self as a block of wood. The nihilist within me at times needs to whittle it down, to form and shape it in a way where the person can be made more "real".

I was under the impression nihilists try to destroy, not refashion into something more streamlined, but whatever, the word nihilism gets tossed around so often, it's aptly lost much of its meaning.
This sounds more like minimalism to me than nihilism, a minimization of the self, doing away with the excess, frivolous or inauthentic parts.

We do not really need to have so much excess baggage become a part of us.

Right, we only have so much time and energy, so we tend to get more discriminating with how we spend it as we mature, including the time/energy we spend thinking and feeling about things, and identifying with them.

Do you mean that you are able to see value in what is important and what is not?

We're all able to see the value in what is (un)important, some more than others.

What I mean is, the more general knowledge I have, the more important knowledge, or wisdom I'm likely to have, unless it's all inapplicable book smarts.
There's more of a limit on how much wisdom you can have than on how much knowledge, for wisdom is about important things, pertaining to your life, where as knowledge can be about anything and everything.
There's only so much you can learn about your life and how to live it before it becomes trivia, which's not to say there aren't always more important lessons to learn here and there, sporadically, where as you can go on studying and speculating about the heavens and the earth, other life forms, or other peoples lives for eternity, and never be exhausted.

It has also been my experience that *this or that* is really not that important.
It is like cleaning house. The more junk which we once thought as valuable and important can be thrown away to give way to more *inner* space insofar as the self goes.
How freeing that can be, right?

Right, as I was saying our time/energy is limited, not only for how much stuff we can do and have, but for how much stuff we can care about, or identify with.
It is all about balance, how many things we give ourselves over to, you can give yourself over to too many things or too few, most people have a tendency towards excess rather than lack.

Hmm... I am not so sure of that. Wouldn't that necessarily depend on the *individual*?
Some could never be satiated and others may be for a time. Balance! I may be wrong here.
We are all different in a way.

Right but I said the more satiated we are, these people you speak of are virtually insatiable.

But on the other side of that coin, doing less might make ourselves more of who we truly are, not less so ~~ unless you are speaking of plain old laziness and apathy

Apathy and laziness is an important part of who some of us are.
If there's little or nothing authentic or meaningful to do, you should just stay put, and not do much.
This idea that we all are, can or ought to be excited by life, is harmful.
And the more stuff we push ourselves to do, that don't need to be done, or that we don't really feel like doing, the less there is to do, which actually perpetuated apathy/sloth in a round about way.
There are limits to how much we can progress as individuals and a society.
People also have different temperaments, some people are melancholic or phlegmatic by nature, not everyone is sanguine, nor should they feel pressured to medicate themselves into being as such.
Doing, for doing's sake, is very inauthentic, wasteful and, evil.

Well, couldn't you still wonder about what you already know? Everything is not set in stone.
Consider everything which we have learned which has more or less turned out to be wrong.
If we hadn't wondered or re-considered, where would knowledge?

Yes, but sometimes there's nothing to reconsider, or everything that can be meaningfully reconsidered has already been.
As we learn and reconsider what we've learned, we run out of things to learn and reconsider, or at least it becomes more difficult to discover brand, spanking new things to learn about and reconsider.

Actually, you are not the gloominary which you call yourself albeit there is the candle which surrounds the gloom though I would not necessarily call the darkness gloom.
It can be quite beautiful...the darkness that is.

I'm sorry I'm not following you. :lol:
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Re: Half Life

Postby Arcturus Descending » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:42 pm

Gloominary,


Think of the I or the Self as a block of wood. The nihilist within me at times needs to whittle it down, to form and shape it in a way where the person can be made more "real".

I was under the impression nihilists try to destroy, not refashion into something more streamlined, but whatever, the word nihilism gets tossed around so often, it's aptly lost much of its meaning.


Well, I do not know about you but I am able to think in terms of whittling something down as a form of destruction. Technically speaking, this is NOT nihilism but are you able to see *letting go* and *detaching* as being positively and realistically lol nihilistic in nature?


This sounds more like minimalism to me than nihilism, a minimization of the self, doing away with the excess, frivolous or inauthentic parts.


I can see that too. But is there not more than one word to describe how we interpret something?
Minimalism is the intentional promotion of the things we most value and the removal of everything that distracts us from it.
Realistic nihilism? lol


Right, we only have so much time and energy, so we tend to get more discriminating with how we spend it as we mature, including the time/energy we spend thinking and feeling about things, and identifying with them.


That would certainly depend on the individual. Do you see many adult *WEs* living their lives in that way? :-k
It is a process.


We're all able to see the value in what is (un)important, some more than others.

All? I doubt that. But I do think that we can learn that, step by step, in moments of awareness. But the *seeing* does not always do the trick. We are half asleep.


What I mean is, the more general knowledge I have, the more important knowledge, or wisdom I'm likely to have, unless it's all inapplicable book smarts.


What do YOU mean by *general knowledge* before I try to respond to you here?


There's more of a limit on how much wisdom you can have than on how much knowledge, for wisdom is about important things, pertaining to your life, where as knowledge can be about anything and everything.


:-k As for the first part, why do you think that is, aside from wisdom being about important things?
Intelligence and wisdom ~~ do they not kind of go together? Intelligence is the seeing and gathering in of information and utilizing it. What would wisdom be? Utilizing it
toward the greatest positive advantage for one and/or all?


There's only so much you can learn about your life and how to live it before it becomes trivia,


Hmmm...something about that just does not quite ring true to me.
Human beings are complicated creatures. We are not simple. There is much hidden from us. We are like what is below the iceberg lol. Our psyches themselves are like unexplored space and dark matter.
We grow, we evolve, our lives change in different ways (hopefully) so how can you say that?

which's not to say there aren't always more important lessons to learn here and there, sporadically, where as you can go on studying and speculating about the heavens and the earth, other life forms, or other peoples lives for eternity, and never be exhausted.


Isn't Life spectacular? There IS a panoramic view there but much of the space which we see is what we see before we exist the tunnel.
We really do have to wake up, do we not?


Right, as I was saying our time/energy is limited, not only for how much stuff we can do and have, but for how much stuff we can care about, or identify with.


This is where intelligence and wisdom walk hand in hand, I think.

It is all about balance, how many things we give ourselves over to, you can give yourself over to too many things or too few, most people have a tendency towards excess rather than lack.


Balance is beautiful. I suppose that it is okay though to lean a bit far this way or that sometimes. Then we really learn about balance.

Do you think this position for a count of _____, once a day, can embed a sense of all-around balance into our brains and lives?

balance.jpg
balance.jpg (5.09 KiB) Viewed 1735 times


Apathy and laziness is an important part of who some of us are.


Do you mean to say that they *value* these things?

If there's little or nothing authentic or meaningful to do, you should just stay put, and not do much.


That is a learned pattern. What would you say to these people to wake them up?

This idea that we all are, can or ought to be excited by life, is harmful.


Balance again. What would you tell them to do here?

And the more stuff we push ourselves to do, that don't need to be done, or that we don't really feel like doing, the less there is to do, which actually perpetuated apathy/sloth in a round about way.


I think that I can see that as happening. Why do you think some people have this mindset? What creates it in them?


There are limits to how much we can progress as individuals and a society.

But how do we learn to intuit and to balance what are our actual limits and at the same time allow ourselves to be a kind of limitlessness?


Doing, for doing's sake, is very inauthentic, wasteful and, evil.


Hmmm...I am not so sure about that. I may be wrong here, but wouldn't that depend on the individual and the circumstances?
For example, if someone has a tendency toward laziness and apathy, it might be a good thing in this case to *do for doing's sake*...to just plow through that and do what has to be done. It's a process and a learning experience. Once has to start somewhere, no?
Even the most interested and energetic people at times get a bit lazy and apathetic. Would you tell them "Well, if you do not want to do it, do not do it". What if it is something which really needs to be done? Responsibility pawns *another day*.

... wasteful and, evil


Do you mean where there is no consciousness of thought or intention wastefulness and evil (strong word there) can occur?


Yes, but sometimes there's nothing to reconsider, or everything that can be meaningfully reconsidered has already been.
As we learn and reconsider what we've learned, we run out of things to learn and reconsider, or at least it becomes more difficult to discover brand, spanking new things to learn about and reconsider.


As for the first, I can agree with you. I sometimes would like to get blood out of a stone. :oops:
As for the last, this is true too. Sometimes letting go allows the brain some space to bask in the Sun so to speak and then another seed sprouts up and may be nourished.


Actually, you are not the gloominary which you call yourself albeit there is the candle which surrounds the gloom though I would not necessarily call the darkness gloom.
It can be quite beautiful...the darkness that is.

I'm sorry I'm not following you. :lol:


Behold my stream of consciousness. I could have expressed that much better.
Can you tell me why you have that username? I am able to see *gloominary* in a certain way. I do not know what way you see it.
Joseph Joubert ~~

It is better to debate a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating it.


The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory but progress.


“We love repose of mind so well, that we are arrested by anything which has even the appearance of truth; and so we fall asleep on clouds.”


You have to be like the pebble in the stream, keeping the grain and rolling along without being dissolved or dissolving anything else.
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Re: Half Life

Postby MagsJ » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:24 pm

Gloominary wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Gloominary, have you had any injections in the last 6 to 12 months, or medications? ...just a thought. :-k

*Laughs, no, what're you trying to say? :lol: :-?

Lol. They can lay one low.. and mood at the same time. Sound like you?
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:54 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
MagsJ wrote:Gloominary, have you had any injections in the last 6 to 12 months, or medications? ...just a thought. :-k

*Laughs, no, what're you trying to say? :lol: :-?

Lol. They can lay one low.. and mood at the same time. Sound like you?

Mags, if I've personally offended you somehow, it wasn't my intention, can we move on?
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Re: Half Life

Postby MagsJ » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:16 pm

I was being serious. :-?

..you try to help, and see what happens! :|
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:21 pm

MagsJ wrote:I was being serious. :-?

..you try to help, and see what happens! :|

Thanks, but I don't need your help, I don't have bipolar, borderline, depression or whatever you suppose I have, and if that's not what you're alluding to, than I'm at a loss. :-?
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Re: Half Life

Postby Serendipper » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:38 am

Gloominary wrote:@Anomaly

Dude. I think I figured out why you've adopted the username Gloominary. There's only like 12 days of warm weather in Canada per year. Move to Tallahassee or someplace warm for a while, I'm betting your repost of the same subject will reveal a new vigor for life. Just my two cents.

While Vancouver Canada, where I'm from, isn't much cooler than Seattle and hardly receives any snow, we receive twice as much rain as London England, so that might partly explain my gloominosity.


Lack of UV light at that latitude. Don't you crave salmon or anything? Most folks are vit-d deficient, but I can't imagine you get any that far north unless you eat lots of fish or D pills.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:12 pm

Serendipper wrote:
Gloominary wrote:@Anomaly

Dude. I think I figured out why you've adopted the username Gloominary. There's only like 12 days of warm weather in Canada per year. Move to Tallahassee or someplace warm for a while, I'm betting your repost of the same subject will reveal a new vigor for life. Just my two cents.

While Vancouver Canada, where I'm from, isn't much cooler than Seattle and hardly receives any snow, we receive twice as much rain as London England, so that might partly explain my gloominosity.


Lack of UV light at that latitude. Don't you crave salmon or anything? Most folks are vit-d deficient, but I can't imagine you get any that far north unless you eat lots of fish or D pills.

I guess I'm probably lacking in vitamin D, I eat fish like once every two weeks or something.
Does meat have D?
Because I eat it everyday.
I'll have to duckduckgo.com that.
Or maybe what it is, is I don't consume caffeine like y'all do.
Anyway I'm mostly fine with the way I am.
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Re: Half Life

Postby MagsJ » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:19 pm

Gloominary wrote:
MagsJ wrote:I was being serious. :-?

..you try to help, and see what happens! :|

Thanks, but I don't need your help, I don't have bipolar, borderline, depression or whatever you suppose I have, and if that's not what you're alluding to, than I'm at a loss. :-?

I was eluding to none of the above...
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Re: Half Life

Postby Gloominary » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:25 pm

MagsJ wrote:
Gloominary wrote:
MagsJ wrote:I was being serious. :-?

..you try to help, and see what happens! :|

Thanks, but I don't need your help, I don't have bipolar, borderline, depression or whatever you suppose I have, and if that's not what you're alluding to, than I'm at a loss. :-?

I was eluding to none of the above...

Why did you ask me if I'm on medication?
You must be implying that medication might be responsible for my attitude, mood, philosophy.
Well I'm not on any, in fact I'm probably one of the soberest people on this forum.
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Re: Half Life

Postby Zero_Sum » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:00 pm

Life is terribly short in duration and you have to make the best of it because before too long you're aging where death is knocking on your front door. For younger people this seems ludicrous but as you reach middle age you start realizing the sand hour clock that hangs on your shoulders everyday.
The temple mount will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and all the nations of the world will be ruled from there. All races, cultures, leaders, and nations will come to bow before the new messiah yet to come. All will come to know the chosen of God who refer themselves as Jews. For every Jew there will be a thousand goyim that will be their slaves as it was ordained by God. Every man, woman, and child will convert to Zionism.
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