## Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

The origins of the imperative, "know thyself", are lost in the sands of time, but the age-old examination of human consciousness continues here.

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### Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Silhouette wrote:
unknowing wrote:I never realized how much this sort of thing threatens other people's belief systems.

It only threatens anyone's belief systems in the same way and to the same degree as you saying "I am a cow from outer space", or "I have seen a square circle, u have no way of knowing what I've come across in my life so you can't tell me I haven't".

Well, yes, there are certain things that we can tell you that you haven't come across, and things we can tell you are not the case. Some things cannot physically exist by definition and some things are misinterpretations of what does exist. Whilst I have no doubt whatsoever that your experiences happened, an interpretation of them as psychic is as challenging to philosophy and the beliefs of others as experiencing your existence but then concluding that your existence is that of a cow from outer space. I've had plenty of experiences that I entertain with comments to myself or others such as "wow I must be psychic", so it's not like I don't know what you're basing your belief on. I just know what to do with such thoughts and why.
You are, here, basically, making a psychic claim. "I have had certain experiences that I have concluded are the same as the experiences of all others who think they have psychic experiences." Further you assume that you know what the whole set of their cognitive processes are when they evaluate their experiences. You know you can rule out any exception to your experience, since, presumably, people cannot have different skill sets, have learned different things, must be exactly like UP TO THAT POINT where you rationally dismiss and they naively believe. Since you argue that it is ridiculous he presents his ideas in a philosophy forum you might want explain how you have overcome the problem of other minds, which you seem to be implicitly claiming to have done, since you know with such certainty what is going on in his mind.
Karpel Tunnel

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### Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Karpel Tunnel wrote:
Silhouette wrote:
unknowing wrote:I never realized how much this sort of thing threatens other people's belief systems.

It only threatens anyone's belief systems in the same way and to the same degree as you saying "I am a cow from outer space", or "I have seen a square circle, u have no way of knowing what I've come across in my life so you can't tell me I haven't".

Well, yes, there are certain things that we can tell you that you haven't come across, and things we can tell you are not the case. Some things cannot physically exist by definition and some things are misinterpretations of what does exist. Whilst I have no doubt whatsoever that your experiences happened, an interpretation of them as psychic is as challenging to philosophy and the beliefs of others as experiencing your existence but then concluding that your existence is that of a cow from outer space. I've had plenty of experiences that I entertain with comments to myself or others such as "wow I must be psychic", so it's not like I don't know what you're basing your belief on. I just know what to do with such thoughts and why.
You are, here, basically, making a psychic claim. "I have had certain experiences that I have concluded are the same as the experiences of all others who think they have psychic experiences." Further you assume that you know what the whole set of their cognitive processes are when they evaluate their experiences. You know you can rule out any exception to your experience, since, presumably, people cannot have different skill sets, have learned different things, must be exactly like UP TO THAT POINT where you rationally dismiss and they naively believe. Since you argue that it is ridiculous he presents his ideas in a philosophy forum you might want explain how you have overcome the problem of other minds, which you seem to be implicitly claiming to have done, since you know with such certainty what is going on in his mind.

It says a lot the aims of this community. And not just about the psychic topic.

What is the ratio of skeptics here about all matters? Does anybody seek agreement on anything? What do you wish to arrive at in your thinking here? Do even want to arrive at anything?

Do you consider yourself an open minded person or is it somewhat closed?

How do you benefit openly sharing doubt?

Somewhere between classic philosophy and modern day logic is idealism. Do you dismiss idealism?

If something doesn't exist in this world, does that mean you exclude parallel worlds where purple unicorns roam? I'm aware that is an extreme example. Do I have to strain to display that awareness to fit in?
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

unknowing

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### Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

The benefit of being nice is that you smooth over conflict and sometimes conflict goes away if isn't met with resistance. Peace is the highest value. Better than dominant submissive sexual positions. Who the fuck doesn't want utopia?

Whoops, I meant this for the rant house thread of mine.
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

unknowing

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Location: In a Tower that is neither intellectual nor phallic, but technological in spirit.

### Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Karpel Tunnel wrote:On what basis did you universalize what, I do think, is often the case?

I think unreliability universalizes fairly easily. If something is "often" unreliable, then it is unreliable simpliciter.

We can get into some quasi-math analysis, e.g. "there is some probability $$S$$ (whatever counts as "often") that there is some probability $$P$$ (whatever counts as "unreliable") that a thing will give false results, so the best we can hope for is truth with probability $$1-(S \times P)$$".

But I'm not speaking mathematically when I say that memory is unreliable. Rather, the mundane explanation for why someone remembers a dream that very accurately predicted an experience is that their memory is imperfect. We know that's at least often the case, so it is mundane to suggest that it's the case here.
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Carleas
Magister Ludi

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### Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Karpel Tunnel wrote:You are, here, basically, making a psychic claim. "I have had certain experiences that I have concluded are the same as the experiences of all others who think they have psychic experiences." Further you assume that you know what the whole set of their cognitive processes are when they evaluate their experiences. You know you can rule out any exception to your experience, since, presumably, people cannot have different skill sets, have learned different things, must be exactly like UP TO THAT POINT where you rationally dismiss and they naively believe. Since you argue that it is ridiculous he presents his ideas in a philosophy forum you might want explain how you have overcome the problem of other minds, which you seem to be implicitly claiming to have done, since you know with such certainty what is going on in his mind.

Nice try. You want to claim that using logic is or can be psychic?

You don't need to know the whole set of someone's cognitive processes if they amount to something invalid: you can have a deeply nuanced and layered argument that square circles exist, but you don't need to know it inside out to know it's wrong. Have I solved the problem of other minds? No, but reason can bypass it to a knowable extent - hence why we can communicate meaningfully - it only works due to the use of logic, which I guess is some magical way of reading minds to you if you want to claim that I am making a psychic claim?

Effects occurring before their cause is not the way things work. We know this because they consistently follow causes and whenever they might be interpreted as appearing to precede them, there is no consistency beyond random chance.
Likewise the notion that the conception of the effect preceding the cause is in fact the cause of that effect in itself - this does no better than random chance either. All evidence points one way, zero evidence points the other - and this evidence or lack thereof applies to everyone who tests it - it bypasses the problem of other minds just like communication. Logically you conceive as reality that which is evidenced by reality, and that which isn't evidenced you logically conceive as not real. Nothing "psychic" is needed.

unknowing wrote:What is the ratio of skeptics here about all matters? Does anybody seek agreement on anything? What do you wish to arrive at in your thinking here? Do even want to arrive at anything?

I can easily turn this around by asking why you aren't demonstrating skepticism of your skepticism and showing some consistency with your affirmation of skepticism?

Even more obviously I could ask why you aren't being skeptical of psychic abilities instead of just being skeptical that the people who are showing skepticism of psychic abilities aren't being skeptical...

I mean, did you really think this through?

Considering yourself to be open minded is closed to the consideration of your being closed minded. Unfortunately you can't say anything, you can't even "say" without something being affirmed and closing your mind to what you are saying and to the accepted language of saying it to at least some degree. Closed mindedness is inevitable, this is why the Buddha famously didn't respond to certain questions - that's the best a maximally open minded individual can do.

I have tried to doubt pretty much everything there is, demonstrating closed-mindedness is not in fact a completely reliable indication that you are not open minded:

I am in many ways an idealist, as I mentioned before... I am not dismissing Idealism at all. I'm just treating it rationally. When it comes to philosophy, I am closed to dealing with that which cannot be falsified - because otherwise you are just playing an aimless guessing game that gets nowhere. There's nothing wrong at all with the consideration that there are parallel worlds where purple unicorns roam, but there's literally nothing you can do with that - no philosophy can be gained from such a consideration so it is most loving of wisdom to leave it there. Imagination and creativity such as entertaining the possibility of psychic abilities is great... and then there's also philosophy.

Silhouette
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### Re: Does anyone else experience psychic abilities

Why would a person believe him or herself 'psychic' or capable of 'psychic' abilities?

Firstly, psychic abilities spawns almost entirely from fiction, fantasy, and children's stories. It's a popular myth. In reality, psychics are never proven, never replicated, therefore improbable enough to be ruled out completely. If it has never done before then why, all of a sudden, would it be possible now? Thus the first reason for psychic belief is immersion into fantasy. And this is the plight of the modern world, of Modernity. Idealism and fantasy is blurred with, mixed into, reality. Thus modern people cannot tell apart fact from fiction, idealism from realism. A child's fantasy with waking life. More and more people across the world are succumbing to these seductive and degenerative tendencies. Reality is pushed further and further away by common humanity.

Secondly, there is a simple misnomer and case of mixed up language. The believers here are replacing 'intuition' with psychic abilities. By doing this, they are casually switching between meanings, to bolster their case. Because without intuition, the believers really have nothing at all to go on. Thus believers must base psych-ism entirely in the subconscious, the area of 'feelings' and premonitions. Psychic ability is not really claimed as a brightly aware, conscious effort of prediction. Rarely or never would you hear a psych-ist claim that psychic powers come purely from intelligent, rational, wise thought. Rather they claim that it comes from 'unknowning', "it just felt this way". Thus a person who is consciously aware, makes predictions based on reason, and gets a large amount of those predictions correct, would not be a 'psychic' opposed to somebody who "feels" premonitions and gets them correct only a fraction of the time, or never at all. Thus psych-ists are obsessed with the rarest premonitions, the one in a million occurrences, where somebody gets a wild fabrication semi-accurate. They then focus on this one in a million occurrence that "see, we were right, psych-ism does exist".

Thirdly, psych-ists, and other believers, those of the religious sort too, cannot be proved wrong. And this is perhaps the most important point. They are so detached from reality that they make it literally impossible to be proved wrong. And because this is so, psych-ism along with other religious belief, dogmatism, fanaticism, puritanism, are all anti-philosophical. When a conclusion is taken as 100% true from the start (psychic abilities must exist) then these believers are working backward from that conclusion. The conclusion is fixed. They are looking for evidence or premises, confirmation, backward. They are starting from the end, and looking for a beginning, to make a case. Philosophically, even amateurs can recognize and its error. Since it is backward, it is irrational. Philosophy almost always starts from 'unknown' premises and works toward the known, instead of working from 'known' premises (the conclusion) and working toward the unknown.

You don't know anything in philosophy. And so psych-ists, believers, dogmatists, puritans, must all be doubted. Your claims will not be taken at face value. You are probably lying. You could be stupid. That has yet to be decided. But it will be decided in time.

Fourthly and finally, even if you did have a "psychic claim" and a "psychic ability", how would you be correct in anyway? These testimonies for psychic experiences are based on correlations. However correlation doesn't mean much, in reality. Cognition exists to perceive, recognize, and predict patterns. Even children can intuit and recognize patterns, non-verbally. The brain does so naturally, without help, as it has evolved to do. That is the function of the brain and mind. The 'problem' then is a matter of description. A child encouraged to call his or her experiences "psychic experiences" are using fantastical terms, mythological, instead of rationally. A non-psychic person could just as well have the same premonitions, same predictions, similar dreams, similar deja vu, but rule out 'psychic' experience by matter of the connotation. Just because you have a dream, and it turns true, or you have a unique and special intuition, still doesn't prove you're psychic. That is because of the stringent demand implied by the connotation. 'Psychic' implies something super-natural, unnatural. Thus if somebody did have 'psychic' abilities then it would be apparent, easy to prove, and easy to replicate.

So what do 'psychic' people claim? Predictions about future events? Here is a tarot card? Here is a red ribbon? Therefore something will happen within 30 days involving red ribbons. That doesn't mean anything. It doesn't prove anything. Rather psych-ists, dogmatists, believers, want to believe, and are willing to stretch the truth, bend reality, as far as possible to convince others that they have a semblance of legitimacy, when they don't.

Keep your bibles....I'm not interested in false gods and false claims. It's dishonest at the very least. You're straight lying at the most.
Urwrongx1000
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