God is an Impossibility

Do you have a consensus “within the greater philosophical community”?

Isn’t the real consensus that the existence of God can neither be proved nor disproved?

A god that loves us and is really strong would be able to do a little materialization here and there, upgrade or heal a person, etc.
You don’t need to be all powerful to do that.

God and love are different things / paradigms.
I realize that, but:
Real things seem mostly provable. And if God is super real, he should be super provable, too.

There are people who say that God appeared and/or talked to them. The skeptics say that didn’t happen.

There are many claimed/documented cures. The skeptics say that they didn’t happen.
:confusion-shrug:

It’s also possible that God is completely indifferent to humans. Or that He thinks it’s better for humans to solve their own problems.

Depends on what you mean by “provable” but generally proofs are difficult except in limited cases.

I know miracles happen. But they aren’t exactly consistent or intelligible. A god that has limits, could do small miracles, while falling short to police the world and heal the sick. It’d be best if he prevented the creation of nuclear weapons, for example.

Indifferent means he doesn’t want worship or obedience, right?

One has to be careful not to start thinking that “God ought to do the things that I think ought to be done”.

Indifferent means that He neither loves nor hates humans - He doesn’t care.

I don’t think that God wants worship or obedience. But that’s just my opinion.

no matter what we think or want, personally, im sure genetic modifications, and AI, will “play god”, while the gods of the masses, also allowed things like mass extinctions in earth’s history. People wont be protected, saved, etc. Why would god destroy or allow the destruction of the majority of all earth life’s species? If he or it made them in the first place. It is like a parent making a big family then gunning them all down one day.

This may not be worded perfectly, but, the message should be clear:
A good god creates a good world.
A bad god creates a world of death, suffering, and loss.

The world is as it is. You can choose to change the things what are within your power and control. Or not.

Is that a truism ?
“You can effect the world, if you can effect the world.”

If I had god powerz id definitely upgrade reality.
If I don’t, who will?

I didn’t write that. I wrote that you had a choice.

You might also want to remember that it isn’t YOUR world.

Note most of the points I made are supported by the giants of philosophy, i.e. Kant, Hume, Wittgenstein, Nietzsche, Russell, Buddhism [other Eastern Religions] and others. These great philosophers has a large share of consensus with many people.

Note there are many strong atheists who just don’t give a damn and reject God’s existence outright as a ridiculous claim. We share the same views but I justified my claim and leaving no doubts via reason with arguments [OP].

Nope this view belong to a minority of agnostics.

The majority of theists believed it is “proven” [from their own experiences and other theists] God is very real ‘empirically’ to the extent God will listens and answers their prayers, and most of all will assure them of salvation with eternal life in a real heaven [up there, some with virgins].

That is why you have a narrow and shallow view.

In term as a human being ‘you’ have a 1/7+ billionth share of the World which you have contributed in co-creating the World-as-it-is with other living things and things.
From day one of breathing, eating, farting and shitting, you have been a contributor to reality-as-it-is. With your next breath you have created a new reality-as-it-is from reality-as-it-was [one second ago].

The above is one clue why you as a human being cannot be totally independent of the reality which you are part and parcel and has co-created.

So you think by being one of 7 billion humans, you OWN the world?

That explains a lot. :confused:

I was referring to a consensus in the “greater philosophical community” which has a higher standard of proof than the “man in the street”. I doubt that most people know what proof is.

Misleading and rhetorical again.
Where did I say “I OWN the world”.

I stated above;
you have a 1/7+ billionth share of the World which you have contributed in co-creating the World-as-it-is with other living things and things.

I did not mean ‘share’ as in the share-market, where I can trade my ‘shares.’

In the above I meant co-share as a contributor and participator with 7+ billion humans.

Why must god be perfect? All you’ve proved is that you can put up a strawman and knock it down.

You setup impossible conditions, state that god must be subject to those conditions, then claim you’ve proved something.

Who cares what a theist wants? I’m interested in what is, not what other people want.

Then disprove inferior gods. The title is “God is an Impossibility”. You didn’t qualify in the title which gods and it’s false advertising. Prove Brahman does not exist.

Why? :confusion-shrug: Why would a perfect god create imperfect stuff?

So the god that you’re proving nonexistent must be perfect so that other nonexistent gods do not kick his ass? :confusion-scratchheadblue:

Oh I see. So the title of the thread should be changed to “A Perfect God is an Impossibility, But All Other Gods May Be possible.” Wherein you define perfection as impossible, stuff god in the condition, and claim you’ve proved something useful.


I want to know if you have ever admitted you’re wrong about anything? Or are you absolutely perfect?

You’re a good example of how smart people are able to defend bad ideas :nerd: scottberkun.com/essays/40-why-sm … bad-ideas/

The thing is, though, that I measure intelligence by one’s propensity to be wrong, because in order to be right, you must first be willing to be wrong and accept correction. If you can’t be wrong, you can never be right… it’s like a blockage that prevents further progress.

:animals-dogrun: You’re running around frantically searching for ways to salvage this failing “proof” of yours because you bought it before you took it for a test drive complete with thorough inspection or else you could have easily admitted its flaws. Nobody wants to admit they bought a lemon, but I suggest you start making lemonade because this proof has soured.

Damn, that’s well-crafted! Are you the genesis or are you quoting someone? I had to stop and write that down!

For everyone who couldn’t figure it out, it means because you think the universe itself is lifeless, that you are merely an empty, lifeless machine. When you put the universe down, you put yourself down as well because you came out of it.

Why choose one over the other:

  • Consciousness is a complicated form of mineral.
  • Mineral is a simple form of consciousness.

Preference, that’s all. Do you want to put a good spin or a bad spin on it? Do you want to say the universe is alive or that you are dead? What you choose reveals who you are.

Dark matter has no charge to emit radiation, yet it has mass which affects by gravity; therefore dark matter is close to being nonexistent by your definition, but not quite. So let’s suppose, for sake of argument, that there is something out there that has no charge and no gravity. Suppose this “stuff” resulted from the creative process of the universe as a kind of “waste” product and it makes no difference if it exists except that it’s a necessary byproduct of the process that engendered it like heat is a necessary byproduct of generating usable power. Would you say that unaffective byproduct exists?

I think potential to affect necessitates existence, but existence doesn’t necessitate potential to affect. Just because something makes no difference if it exist doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist.

Serendipper,
Noted your points but the main one is the following;

I have argued extensively why “God MUST be absolutely perfect” all over this and other threads.

Here is a point, why God MUST be absolutely perfect.
The point is the initial drive of theism is a psychological issue and with crude reason drive theists to invent the idea of a God to soothes those psychological angst. The initial concepts of God were mostly anthropomorphic, but throughout history such flimsy [silly] anthropomorphic concepts has been questioned by rational people and even other theists.

When questioned, each group will correct their errors and shortfalls and come up with new idea of God to cover for the underlying psychological issues.
But as each new anthropomorphic or empirical concepts are raised to justify the existence of God, they are continually attacked/challenged by rational & critical thinkers and other theists as well.

This continual attack pushes the concept of God to the idea [not concept] of an ontological God, i.e. the absolutely perfect God or the absolutely Absolute which no other theists can challenge but exposes its back to the philosophical rationality.

A good example is Islam per the Quran is claiming Allah is THE GOD [absolutely perfect] while the God of Christianity as at present is a corrupted God. To counter the above the Christians [advanced theologians] has no choice but to claim their God as an ontological God, i.e. an absolutely perfect God.

Before the emergence of the idea of the ontological God, each theist will claim his God is more powerful than another’s. If one claim his God has power of X, then the next will claim his God is power of X+1 and it goes on to an infinite regression.
The ending of the infinite regression is the ontological God, i.e. a God than which no greater can exists. If every theist claim such a God then no theist can claim their God is greater than another.
As such the ontological God has to the default ultimately.

If anyone want to choose a lesser god that is inferior to another, I have no critical issue with that. In any case, to prove their lesser God is real, they will have to produce evidence to prove their lesser God is real.

That looks like a concession to me. Deal!

Perfection defined as “all yang and no yin” cannot exist. This is the essential problem of man… trying to have all good and no bad. There is no such thing and it cannot even be conceptualized.

What is good? What is bad? Well, it’s relative and variable. Right now i have a fever so I walk outside and the cold air feels good and then it feels too cold so I come back inside and the warm air feels good and then it’s too warm again. So, good is lack of bad and both vary. You could say, “why not set the temp so it’s perfect?” Because then it would be flat and it wouldn’t feel good. We have to eat bitter in order to taste sweet.

Why are sharks no smarter after 400 million years of evolution? Because, obviously, sharks are optimally intelligent. If they were smarter, they would get bored and be so curious that they’d get into trouble. Or perhaps intelligence just doesn’t make any difference. Who knows, but the point is that sharks ARE perfect. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t have been selected for.

Nature doesn’t make mistakes. Have you ever seen a misshapen cloud? Everything that exists is perfect.

Can you imagine a perfect warrior? One that has all strengths and no disadvantages? Would he be big and strong? Well, then that’s his weakness I could exploit. Strength requires energy, so starve him. Strength requires mass, so lead his fat ass onto a weak bridge. Every advantage has a disadvantage.

What you have done is proved the jehovah god cannot exist because that god cannot be perfect as they popularly proclaim he is. Well, either he doesn’t exist or he is not perfect, but in the bible that god does have a left and right hand.

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

They don’t like to admit that.

Jesus sits on the right hand of god, but who sits on the left? The district attorney sits on the left. The defense is on the right and the accuser is on the left.

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

God has a left and right hand and he has a yetzer hara, evil inclination, an element of irreducible rascality. He couldn’t exist if he didn’t, as you have proven.