Will Theists Accept A God That is Inferior to Another's?


What natural phenomenon exists that is absolutely perfect [ God is not an acceptable answer ]

  1. The speed of light.
  2. Gravitation.
  3. Momentum.

Need I go on?


In what sense are any of them absolutely perfect and how you are defining absolute perfection

In the same sense and definition as the OP!

I am none the wiser but as this thread is about God and not phenomena I will leave it there
However I do not think the notion of absolute perfection can be applied to anything natural

A debatable premise does not do for a proof.

But I’m kind of curious about in what sense the speed of light is NOT absolutely prefect. Has any experiment ever been performed that found the actual speed of light to be wrong?

Perfection requires a comparison between something and a standard.

If something is unique, then it’s possible to say that there is nothing with which it can be compared. Therefore every unique thing can be considered perfect.

Of course, it’s possible to set up an ideal which the unique thing should be. But where does that “should” come from? Ought the thing really be some other way than it actually is?

Everything in the universe can be considered unique and perfect.

If something is not unique, then it satisfies some definition. Any cat which meets the dictionary definition of “cat” can be considered perfect. The world is full of perfect cats and trees and flies …

The something may also be suitable for fulfilling a function or requirement. For example, a glass may be considered perfect for taking a drink of water - it’s flawless in doing so.

So again, this is a discussion about what a word means. It means slightly different stuff to different people and in different contexts.

It depends on how the comparison is done.

You still have not explained what is so perfect about it in your opinion. Does the notion of perfection apply
to every phenomena or just the three you mentioned. Can you give any examples of imperfect phenomena

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Perfect, imperfect, mutant, superfish, something else? All are true?

I am not the one trying to claim that absolutely perfect is impossible.

Do we have any scientific, “empirically-rational reality” Framework and System data that shows that light is propagating at the wrong speed?

You are the one claiming that certain phenomena are perfect without explaining why

This isn’t my topic. That was a side rail question. We don’t really care about natural phenomena.

Again;
Do we have any scientific, “empirically-rational reality” Framework and System data that shows that light is propagating at the wrong speed?

We have absolutely no evidence that its speed is not absolutely perfect.
So we cannot claim that absolute perfection cannot happen.

The speed of light in vacuum may be absolute but that does not mean that it is perfect too
The notion of perfection you are assigning to it is purely arbitrary and not really necessary

I am not assigning anything. Prism is. Whatever Prism is using for his reference for perfect, so am I.

So far,

P1 in Prism’s effort to prove that God is impossible is not valid.
The proof is invalid.

If something does in fact exist in a wholly determined universe, then anything that does in fact exist could not have existed in any other way. And that would include any exchanges we have here about perfection.

Or take living organisms that interact entirely in sync [instinctively] with the biological imperatives built into the evolution of life on earth. The lion may well not bring down the wildebeest but in what sense can we say it behaved imperfectly?

But once we shift gears from mindless matter to matter able to acquire some level of autonomy, perfection would seem to revolve around what we think that means in any particular context.

If I go bowling and, in a single game, roll 12 strikes in a row that is clearly perfection. If I am Don Larsen pitching in the World Series and no one on the opposing team gets on base in the nine inning game, I have pitched a “perfect game”.

Here you simply can’t perform better than perfection.

But, most crucially, it is able to be calculated objectively because it revolves around that which we all agree is perfection.

But how on earth would we even begin to establish that which constitutes perfection in God?

What are we all required to accept as the “rules” here? How do we calculate it other than by clumping together a collection of more or less academic premises and insisting perfection necessarily revolves around everyone accepting them?

My thinking – “proof” – about God and perfection…compared to yours?

Biguous? Do you have any evidence that the speed of light is not absolutely perfect, flawed in some way?

It would be better to say that the speed of light in vacuum is absolutely consistent rather than absolutely
perfect because consistency can quite easily be measured whereas perfection can not be measured at all

That’s kind of silly. If you can’t measure perfection, then you can never say that anything is or is not perfect.

Are two photons of light traveling in the exact same vacuum traveling perfectly the same speed?

Everyone knows the speed of light in vacuum is absolute so there is no need to reference it as perfect too
Perfect is not actually a scientific term and I have never seen anyone describe c as perfect other than you

As this is going nowhere we shall have to agree to disagree and leave it at that as it is pointless to carry on
This thread has got nothing to do with the speed of light so we really should get back on to the actual topic

Why use the word “perfect” for anything at all?

What purpose does the word have?

Even when talking about God, it seems useless.