Reality vs Perception

reality encompasses existence; existence encompasses reality

Where does that leave perception?

In the driver’s seat. :evilfun:

No Drinking while driving! Perception must be sober. Real perception can be quite sobering.
Stay alert at all times.

Hmmm . . . yes it could be said that perception is in the drivers seat. The drivers seat is in reality however and exists.

Reality vs Perception

:laughing:

Perhaps some senseless babbling on my part but I still think worthy of slight consideration. Trying to edge toward a truth.

Try not to blink, as something might be missed :laughing:

I have been giving this Einstein/Eddington thing some thought. Eddington suggests that mathematics(language of the universe) was not there until we put it there which is to say that despite the compatibility of mathematics to the universe, the universe obviously displays itself differently to the symbols that we use to express reality.

Differently but compatible . . .

The thing that I have left out is that we are referring to the great architect of the universe being a mathematician. It has been suggested a few times in the media that mathematics is a universal language but this is a misinterpretation of what a language actually is, which is that which is composed of symbols/tokens.

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I too am sure that the universe has memory - leading to a universal intelligence - this however I believe is highly mathematical in that flow is involved so that the memory is based on a dynamic of flow which means that the memories are stored in a unique way that we are not accustomed to. When 1 + 1 becomes 2 the 1’s are still remembered if that makes sense. This requires some intuition too for that matter.

Exactly, what it may comprise of and I think it is safe to say that we are not talking about neurons in the way that we are accustomed to id est the neurons of the human brain. Gravity and the other forces then become the medium for communication from my current view and energy and matter become the medium of stored memories, and I would think that because I am not taking into consideration what I am not aware of.

I am not aware of whether the human brain is actually the center of human intelligence but I am aware that it is able to store memories and memories are important to intelligence. Without memories there can not be an intelligence but there is still a flow within our consciousness, an invisible flow, a temporal flow, not so much like a river flows but a flow none the less showing that time is fluid when it comes to the mind. Hint: perhaps even the universe can experience déjà vu.

Back to the language thing - the thing to be aware of >> is that one must read between the lines so to speak >> when trying to interpret even that which I have written here >> to get any sense of what I am saying. I think too that we must read between the mathematical lines >> to make any sense of a universal language.

In the end intelligence can be represented with language and it need not be mathematical language - it need be interpretation.

Interpretation can be a hidden language and it is a hidden thing that I am trying to point to - I have much more to say in another post.

I do believe that at some point Eddington was onto this hidden thing that I am referring to and he calls it convergence. When convergence takes place it is hidden away from perception for a time - I am speaking of convergence as coming together from different directions so as to eventually meet.

Conceptual directions . . .

Eddington said, unity and consistency are ideals to be reached by convergence and he regarded seeking(in religion and philosophy) as more important than finding. I would have to agree since there is more to be learnt along the way than what is to be learnt at the end - the end is only useful for reflection where a few missed concepts might be caught - I am not trying to exclude deep analytical thinking however, rather I am highlighting the importance of seeking.

Eddington also says something similar to: the truth shines ahead as a beacon showing us the path.

Despite some of Eddington’s, what seems to be, confused thinking, it is safe to say that by presenting his ideas in a more clear format would permit us to filter out the more ambiguous thoughts he himself presented. I should start with his table-top paradox in that the everyday table-top is different to the scientific one, id est, the everyday table-top is seemingly solid and impenetrable and the scientific one is mostly composed of figuratively speaking, empty space - suggesting that there are two table-tops in this conceptual situation - components of two distinct worlds - neither world(or description) being the ultimate reality.

Eddington views reality as ultimately spiritual and inscrutable.

I will say for now that what reality and subconsciousness have in common is continuity . . .
. . . whereas perception and consciousness appear not to be unbroken . . .

:-k

Conversely, I believe reality can be interpreted.

Hello there,

What I was saying is that it IS our very own individual perception which builds our reality ~ a reality which may or may not be built on what is “real” and “true”.
That is why perception is in the driver’s seat.

Yes, perception exists but insofar as reality existing by way of one’s individual perception, that would depend on whether or not one is seeing things as they actually are.

Arcturus Descending

Interesting, I was not initially sure of how to answer you but I present a kind of answer for you here.

Hmm, do you deny that at least some of actual reality makes it through and what we come to perceive is partially based on reality?

I am saying that actual reality helps to build our individual reality . . .

I would have to say that we are seeing at the very least partial representations of reality if not the whole of reality.

I hope you see some logic here . . .

In so much that a view of reality is not really what we refer to as reality. Reality is what is viewed, what we interpret it as is perception. All the percepts of reality are in reality, of course. Where else could they be?

If a percept is an object of perception then reality could be said to be in perception by way of interpretation but I am with you on this especially if reality is perceived falsely. Also percepts being the consequence of perception and perception being a near consequence of reality says that percepts are a near consequence of reality.

“Nothing ever becomes real till experienced – even a proverb is no proverb until your life has illustrated it” - John Keats

9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

Simon & Garfunkel Lyrics
“The Sound Of Silence”

Hello darkness, my old friend
I’ve come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence

In restless dreams I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
‘Neath the halo of a streetlamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
That split the night
And touched the sound of silence

And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices never share
No one dare
Disturb the sound of silence

“Fools” said I, “You do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you”
But my words like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence

And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said “The words of the prophets
Are written on the subway walls
And tenement halls
And whispered in the sounds of silence”

genius.com/Simon-and-garfunkel- … nce-lyrics

youtube.com/watch?v=4fWyzwo1xg0

If I have to explain, you wouldn’t understand :wink:

:smiley:

You like that? I can continue :-"

[i]When I was young,
It seemed that life was so wonderful,
A miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical.
And all the birds in the trees,
Well they’d be singing so happily,
Oh joyfully, oh playfully watching me.

But then they sent me away
To teach me how to be sensible,
Logical, oh responsible, practical.
And then they showed me a world
Where I could be so dependable,
Oh clinical, oh intellectual, cynical.

There are times
When all the world’s asleep,
The questions run too deep
For such a simple man.

Won’t you please,
Please tell me what we’ve learned
I know it sounds absurd
Please tell me who I am.[/i]

genius.com/Supertramp-the-logical-song-lyrics

youtube.com/watch?v=OQfjIw3mivc

[i]Well I came upon a child of God,
he was walking along the road
And I asked him tell me where are you going,
this he told me:

Said, I’m going down to Yasgur’s farm,
going to join in a rock and roll band.
Got to get back to the land,
and set my soul free.

We are stardust, we are golden,
we are billion year old carbon,

And we got to get ourselves
back to the garden.[/i]

genius.com/Crosby-stills-nash-a … ock-lyrics

youtube.com/watch?v=HKdsRWhyH30

[i]I close my eyes, only for a moment
And the moment’s gone
All my dreams pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind

Same old song, just a drop of water
In an endless sea
All we do crumbles to the ground
Though we refuse to see
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind[/i]

genius.com/Kansas-dust-in-the-wind-lyrics

youtube.com/watch?v=tH2w6Oxx0kQ

[i]I heard I lost it on the grapevine
I must admit I had a great time
There are words for people like me
But I don’t think there’s very many

I’ve gained the world and lost my soul
Maybe it’s 'cause I’m getting old
All the people that I know
Have gained the world and lost their soul

There’s no persuasion that I’m into
I’ve made some sense of what we’ve been through
We should form a new foundation
If we could find the right location[/i]

genius.com/Morcheeba-gained-the-world-lyrics

youtube.com/watch?v=AyKXaqc7Czo

In struggling to answer all my questions I realized that having questions was the point:

“You know the nearer your destination, the more you slip sliding away”

Whoah God only knows, God makes his plan
The information’s unavailable to the mortal man
We’re workin’ our jobs, collect our pay
Believe we’re gliding down the highway, when in fact we’re slip sliding away

azlyrics.com/lyrics/simonga … naway.html

youtube.com/watch?v=iUODdPpnxcA

@encode_decode :

CODE RED! Please contact me immediately! We have a problem!

These kinds of posts could be taken more than one way and are not that specific in what they are trying to deliver. I personally get left with the feeling that I am being accused of having no experience at 42 years of age and therefore accused of saying things that are not real. But who exactly is doing the accusing? Somebody with experience of what I am talking about? I fear not. It is not like I am discussing anything necessarily new here - similar topics have been discussed for millennia.

So what is it that pilgrim-seeker_tom was trying to say to me? That all I was doing was “blah … blah … blah”? Fine, I no longer care what he thinks. He does not have to read anything that I have put together. I would suggest that of anybody. We all have the choice whether to read certain material or not.

To put it simply and somewhat figuratively: There is no sense in blaming me for something you would decide to do. I don’t blame others for what I decide on.

The things I post are the things I talk about and some people happen to find them interesting.

Peace

:smiley:

To put it into philosophical jargon, the idea of a sense data(precept) reduces perception and it’s objects ultimately. Infinitely, with the object falling below the threshold of perception.

Objection to Russell’s idea .
How would it coincide with Nietzche’s idea of the nihilized something of the abyss?

Recently approved post.

I will get back to you soon with my interpretation of what you are asking.

For now: I can not be certain that I understand what you mean - that is fine though - I can attempt some interpretation and hope to not fall too far from the mark.

There is meaning coming at me from your post. I have not read Nietzsche.

Thanks for that and I will attempt a general idea of what comes up in connection to that.

Hopefully I am not conflating concepts in a corrupt way. I am still new to this concept of sense data. I am aware of my misuse here.

Just a stray thought: We have failed to take into account the processes that happen below the conscious states - namely those that go on in the brain. Many neural networks are activated in relation to any given sense datum and some do not appear to bring into perception any given thing - we perceive the main event each time but many smaller events have taken place further strengthening future sense datum ready for activation - reminding us of some thing at a time.

I propose more than one sense datum at a time - those that fall into conscious and those which do not. I further propose that there is nothing meaningless going on in the brain - that we are misunderstanding what meaning is and therefore discounting meaning happening that is not perceived.

The brain is its own universe. We are the actor.

My studies show that a thought need not be in the conscious. A thought comes with its own machinery.