How can God be.....

If God is all powerful and unknowable by mere mortals, how can human beings know anything about God?

Can God really be “all powerful”, thpugh; is it possible?

You’ll notice that is why I said if.

Why are you talking about God if you can’t know anything about God?

Probably because others are claiming that they can indeed know things.

Maybe they do know. Since he cannot know about God, then he is in no position to contradict their statements about God.

The only things which can reasonable argued about, are things which are knowable.

Has he established the limits of human knowledge with respect to God? No

What can be known about God and how is it known? Start there.

It could be that he is saying since I cannot know anything about God then nobody else can either.

You’re saying they could possibly know but that would require evidence not faith to prove so.

A very broad statement which would need to be justified.

I’m saying that evidence exists and it’s observable in the world/universe. If it’s not observable, then there is no reason to believe that God exists.

“Faith” is bullshit.

Fair point, you did say “if”.

What CAN be known about God?
Well clear reason lets us deduce some things.
For example: we know that God either exists or doesn’t.
No human has ever proved, to the satisfaction of all, that there is a God, but nobody has ever proved that there is NO God either…
I thought it was obvious from the opening words of my OP (“Many religious thinkers claim”) that I was criticizing what others claim about God…

The universe is evidence of God, but it’s not proof.
This thing we call “God” seems to be beyond proof, beyond disproof…

I doubt it. What a gross waste of power there would be. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.
My intuition tells me that the human psyche needs the thought of an omnipotent God to make up for our own sense of powerlessness in such a chaotic world.

My own intuition leads me to believe the same thing…

Notice that I did not reply to the OP. I replied when you asked “why can’t an omnipotent being defy the rules of logic?”. And my reply was in the nature of “Think about it. What kind of answer are you going to get? Why do you bother to even ask?”.

There are few proofs possible in life and they exist only in very controlled and limited circumstances. Even these do not “satisfy” all. For example, mathematical proofs are meaningless to non-mathematicians.

The majority of life is not based on proof, certainty and the agreement of all people. I don’t know why people insist on such things when they are not applicable. :confused:

One has to accept the limitations of human existence.

Justified how? What exactly are you arguing?

What evidence that is observable exists? Yes, I’m arguing that faith is bullshit also. Aren’t we arguing for the same thing here?

The origin of God and religion is that of social control so it is not mere coincidence that it is very ambiguous to prove or disprove as this was all very intentionally done by ancient priests thousands of years ago. The very best kind of social propaganda and control is the kind that you cannot prove or disprove as it intentionally confuses the minds of people keeping them in constant disarray leading them to be easily directed. Because it cannot be proved or disproved so easily it makes it difficult for a minority of would be rebels to fight against it with a faithful devoted majority outnumbering them. With authority zealous faith is a weapon to be utilized and is used often.

Just because I don’t know something (and cannot) know, does not mean that nobody knows. It’s easy to show … I cannot know what my neighbor was doing last night at 8 o’clock but he knows. A killer knows that he killed someone even when nobody else knows. Etc.

I alluded to some in this thread. You can look up arguments for the existence of God on the internet. :smiley:
Design arguments for example are based on evidence …
iep.utm.edu/design/

No. You are arguing that there is no evidence, only faith. I’m arguing that there is evidence and faith is not sufficient or required.

Therefore, we come to different conclusions about the existence of God.

Are you arguing for a world of solipsism? The arguments for the existence of God are very weak and misleading which is why I don’t embrace them.

So, you’re arguing from the position as a theist against my position of atheism, I didn’t think you were a theist. How very interesting.

There are things which are known to some people and not others. That’s not solipsism. That’s just a fact.

The nature of knowledge is an interesting topic to investigate.

Okay. Others disagree. One can discuss what is a strong and weak argument or what is adequate or sufficient.

Well, I might be arguing a position that I don’t personally hold … for fun or to exercise myself or to expand my awareness and understanding. Or not.

I know … people at ILP just could not wrap their heads around such an idea. :evilfun:

Correlation is not causation.

Dogs use their tails for communication. But that doesn’t mean that such is why they grew them.

In trying to explain to some families how to avoid dying out, or how to escape slavery, methods to be highly respected are distributed to the enslaved or dying out. And the excuse for respected them is; “That’s just the way it is” and “Because this is what works”. They ask "Who are we having faith in? Who is our guide and lead? “I am that I am”, they are told. “Worship no one other than Me, and you will not die out and they can never enslave you again.

Today when slavery of a different type is being instilled, you might notice the strong push against any idea that there is a Reality (aka “Everything is relative”, “Everything is mind”, “multiple realities”, "multiple parallel universes, “No one can really know”, “faith is for the foolish”, “There is no Truth”, “No one can know anything for certain”, “Only scientists know (the new priesthood)”, and “There is no evidence at all to have faith in any God, damn you!”.

Guess what? Atheists are actually fighting for the return of enslavement by the Pharaohs via the method of “blame-shifting” and “scapegoating”; “Those evil God worshipers are just trying to enslave you” when in fact, as is very often the case, the reverse is more true. Who you think to be the “good guys on your side”, are in fact, the “bad guys setting you up”. But that’s not to say that the effort to enslave is only one sided. First chance given, former slaves do everything they can to enslave everyone else.

“Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise… until it is too late to choose otherwise.”

What was the solution to their riddle?

One word;
[list]Truth (meaning “Reality”, “Your Real Situation”)[/list:u]

“The Truth will set you free” (as long as you maintain faith in it). Respect/worship nothing else.

How do we know Truth?

…not easily. “Pray to” (humbly seek of) Reality. Meditate on it. Contemplate it. But Nullius en verba.