How can God be.....

Why couldn’t an omnipotent being “defy the rules of logic”?

If we assume omnibenevolence, omnivigor, we have to assume that “God” forms a reality for each being that only has a positive outcome for that one being without hurting any other beings… “god” is also considered the Omni creator - which is absurd, how can the mother of all, who is part of all, be the mother of all?

It’s impossible. There is no “mother of all”. Logic is used to reality orient, people who “defy logic” are using social dominance to make mindless drones.

Saying that God can “defy the rules of logic” is a cop-out. It’s generally self-serving. It allows a person to say anything that he pleases about God … no matter how unreasonable, illogical or inconsistent.

It puts an end to discussion and thinking.

Hey, if reality only exists to serve man’s whims (as per Prism), why shouldn’t logic?
“It’s logical if we believe that it’s logical.”

I never said God could defy the rules of logic; I asked why an omnipotent being couldn’t do so.
What do we know about God? What can we know about God?
Almost everything we say about God is mere conjecture, including anything we say about Gods existence.

IF God had the power to do ANYTHING, he/it woud also have the power to “defy the rules of logic”.

Right. But the answer to the question is based on the axioms of the person answering. A person who believes in the rules of logic will say that it applies to everything, including God. A person who does not believe in the rules of logic will say that it does not apply to anything.

There is no “reason” beyond that.

Persumably one can get some knowledge from observing the world/universe.

It’s not that I don’t believe in the rules of logic, logic works for us brilliantly.
But i believe,as philosophers, especially skeptics, we have the right to question everything, including the rules of logic.

What can studying the world/universe tell us about God?

If you ignore the part that logically the universe ought not to exist. :open_mouth:

Sure, question whatever you want.

I pointed out that a person who thinks that God can defy logic is also not bound by logic when talking about God. So that has to be considered when evaluating the answers.

And fundamentally the question is really about the meaning of the word “omnipotence”. We don’t know what kind of “potence” God has and we have no way of finding out. So the discussion is about a word.

If you say think that God is necessary to explain the existance of the universe, then God is powerful enough to create the universe.

There is a lot of life around us, so presumably God wanted to create life.

Humans have big brains and the ability to reason, so presumably God wants us to take advantage of that ability.

Etc.

That kind of stuff. :-k

“Words have no meaning beyond that which we put into them”'- Ayer.
“Words are our slaves, not our masters”- Dawkins.

The word “omnipotent” is defined as “all powerful”, which means having the power to do ANYTHING.
If a being can do ANYTHING, then it could defy the rules of logic.
I’m not arguing that God is omnipotent, nor even that there is (or isn’t) a God.
The point is that we don’t know what we are talking about when we say that God is omnipotent, omniscient, etc.
Having the power to create the universe is not necessarily the same as being ALL-POWERFUL, having ALL power, the power to do ANYTHING.

Also I don’t think studying the universe can tell us much (if anything) about God.

And just because life exists doesn’t necessarily mean “God wanted to create life”.

That’s your interpretation of what “omnipotent” means. That’s your interpretation of what “all” and "powerful’ mean when placed together to form a phrase.

Somebody else will have a slightly different (very different?) interpretation.

By all means, have a discussion about it.

Somebody said that God is “omniwhatever”. He/she had something in mind but it may not have been what you have in mind now. He/she could not possibly know that God is “omniwhatever”.

Whatever.

Who said that it is???

IOW, you’re saying that we can’t know much (if anything) about God.

Okay.

If there possibly could be Something which acted as the catalyst to bring Everything into existence, is it not possible that at the very least studying the Universe could point to This as being Pure Energy?

My intuition tells me that if there is anything which can express the reality of this concept called God, it would be science - certainly not religion. People look for facts in the legal system, not hearsay and belief.

Yes that’s exactly what I’m saying.

Science, as it exists right now, can’t tell us anything about God…
Perhaps the science of the future might shed light on questions pertaining to God (though I doubt it), but certainly not the science of today.

If God is all powerful and unknowable by mere mortals, how can human beings know anything about God?

Can God really be “all powerful”, thpugh; is it possible?

You’ll notice that is why I said if.