Deconstructing Western Civilization

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Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:48 am

This thread is about taking apart, piece by piece, the cornerstones and foundation of "Western" civilization.

If your building is failing, and condemned, then there is no choice but to tear it down and restart anew. If a strongest foundation cannot be formed then why continue to build upward on shaky ground? The building will crumble, if not now then later. So it's best to begin again, before disaster strikes which cannot be accounted for. Better the destroying and building on our terms than somebody else's, or the elements.
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:50 am

Lack of leadership:

Due to the lack of World Wars of the twentieth century, there is a real lack of leadership throughout western society. Because there are no real challenges. War breeds innovation. Conflict is the prerequisite to all "Progress". Thus all the social changes, SJWs, "progressive" politics, are meaningless, without conflict. And conflict requires an Antagonist, Antagonism. There are 'western' archetypes, scapegoats, which we all know and blame. But the world needs new Villains if there are to be any Heroes.
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby surreptitious75 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:56 am

There will always be challenges as perfection is an ideal rather than an actuality. The best leaders are those who try to
seriously tackle those challenges but that is comprised by the fact that power corrupts even in democracies so progress
can some times be limited. Changing the leaders is not always the solution even though some will be better than others
The other major impediment to any progress is lack of common purpose especially where there are conflicting interests
A MIND IS LIKE A PARACHUTE : IT DOES NOT WORK UNLESS IT IS OPEN
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:34 pm

surreptitious75 wrote:There will always be challenges as perfection is an ideal rather than an actuality.

Challenges are relative to scale. What is challenging for one, is not for another. What is challenging for a weak arm, is easy for a strong arm. What is challenging to a child, is easy for an adult. The challenge of civilization is different by size, a challenge to millions of people. Different societies and groups, populations, face different challenges based upon common factors. According to 'western' civilization, the challenges of previous centuries have been relatively completed.

Some of the challenges of the past stay consistent, but many others have not. For example, it is no longer a challenge to travel 100 miles in a day, or communicate with somebody across the world in seconds. The result of globalism, causes new challenges of pitting formerly strange people and cultures together, mashing all human differences together, resulting in conflict of values and ideals.


surreptitious75 wrote:The best leaders are those who try to
seriously tackle those challenges but that is comprised by the fact that power corrupts even in democracies so progress
can some times be limited. Changing the leaders is not always the solution even though some will be better than others
The other major impediment to any progress is lack of common purpose especially where there are conflicting interests

Progress is not always beneficial to everybody, and can be restricted to very few. Thus a minor section of the population "progresses" while everybody else remains stagnant or regresses. Thus progress is relative to specific groups of people or individuals.

Some people even sacrifice their own resources, or even a life, to further the ambitions and success (progress) of others. Therefore progress usually, or always, requires such sacrifices. For you to "get ahead" in western civilization, requires setting many or most others back. Your progress, at the cost of others. Thus "progress" is inherently competitive.

There maybe no such thing as "everybody progressing together".


This is a factor of "western" civilization, as opposed to, eastern civilization. The past of european and american societies stand apart from asiatic, african, and native indian populations. Europeans (westerners) are different than mongolian, arabian, and indian civilizations (easterners).
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Peter Kropotkin » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:48 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Lack of leadership:

Due to the lack of World Wars of the twentieth century, there is a real lack of leadership throughout western society. Because there are no real challenges. War breeds innovation. Conflict is the prerequisite to all "Progress". Thus all the social changes, SJWs, "progressive" politics, are meaningless, without conflict. And conflict requires an Antagonist, Antagonism. There are 'western' archetypes, scapegoats, which we all know and blame. But the world needs new Villains if there are to be any Heroes.


K: you are so wrong its hard to begin... OK, let us start with the "lack of World Wars of the 20th century"

you do know that there were TWO World Wars in the 20th century, 1914-1918- world war one....
and from 1939 to 1945, World war two... and afterwards many different conflicts,
Korea and Vietnam and many conflicts like the Arab-Israel war of 1967 and various
wars in Africa over the years...you are flat our wrong... no other way to put it....

as for war bringing out innovation, that is a dubious idea at best....the idea that
conflict brings out innovation is another superstition...the Chinese for example,
had many, many different conflicts over the centuries and yet, their society
stagnated for many centuries... over 2000 years and remarkable little change
in China, in terms of how their society ran and the basic structure of society
and in how the government ran.....conflict didn't bring out innovation in
Rome over the many centuries, it had many, many different wars over the
8 centuries of existence and still how many so-called "innovation" actually occurred
in Rome.... not much... they used slaves in the beginning of their existence
and still used slaves at the end of Rome's existence
a simple look at history disproves your thesis.....that conflict brings out
innovation.....

if your basic thesis is wrong, then your entire statement is wrong....


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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby surreptitious75 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:24 pm

I000 wrote:
Progress is not always beneficial to everybody and can be restricted to very few

This is not true of technological progress because everyone benefits from it and because it aids capitalism too
Mobiles and televisions and computers for example are universal so are not just the preserve of the privileged
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:24 am

Peter Kropotkin wrote:K: you are so wrong its hard to begin... OK, let us start with the "lack of World Wars of the 20th century"

you do know that there were TWO World Wars in the 20th century, 1914-1918- world war one....
and from 1939 to 1945, World war two... and afterwards many different conflicts,
Korea and Vietnam and many conflicts like the Arab-Israel war of 1967 and various
wars in Africa over the years...you are flat our wrong... no other way to put it....

Small, colonial or expansionist wars, in the 21st Century are in no way comparable to the World Wars of the 20th Century. The smaller, insignificant country, stands no real threat to the larger imperial countries and armies. What I mean, specifically, are wars threatening those with great power. The European World Wars threatened the lives and well being of all european people. Wars in the 20th Century do not threaten all people, or people within imperial nations, but only those at the bottom of humanity, the poor and defenseless.

Therefore your counter-point is useless. You cannot compare World War to the minor, colonial wars of the 20th Century. The two are not the same. Now, because of threat of nuclear retaliation, imperial powers have ceased warring. A third World War could, and probably would, result in massive casualties as nuclear bombs and missiles are shot at dozens or hundreds of cities across the world. Perhaps a billion or more people could die. However, despite that, the most "progress" would occur. Because the reality is, it is not until people's lives and livelihoods are threatened, that people begin to move with motivation, in masses. Otherwise there is stagnation (as now) or regression, a slow rot into decay.


Peter Kropotkin wrote:as for war bringing out innovation, that is a dubious idea at best....the idea that
conflict brings out innovation is another superstition...the Chinese for example,
had many, many different conflicts over the centuries and yet, their society
stagnated for many centuries... over 2000 years and remarkable little change
in China, in terms of how their society ran and the basic structure of society
and in how the government ran.....conflict didn't bring out innovation in
Rome over the many centuries, it had many, many different wars over the
8 centuries of existence and still how many so-called "innovation" actually occurred
in Rome.... not much... they used slaves in the beginning of their existence
and still used slaves at the end of Rome's existence
a simple look at history disproves your thesis.....that conflict brings out
innovation.....

I said "Progress", not innovation. This is not a matter of innovation, but of (social) progress.


Peter Kropotkin wrote:if your basic thesis is wrong, then your entire statement is wrong....


Kropotkin

The thesis is that there is no 'progress', individually or collectively, without conflict, without challenges, without provocation and competition.

If any society or person truly wants to "move forward" then it must conjure up a Scapegoat, a "New Hitler", a new evil, to demonize.
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:27 am

surreptitious75 wrote:This is not true of technological progress because everyone benefits from it and because it aids capitalism too
Mobiles and televisions and computers for example are universal so are not just the preserve of the privileged

It's arguable that smart phones and television offer no real "progress" to people.

The implication is that people use technology to some great end. But do they? How many people use technology for simple pleasures and hedonistic pursuits? Where are the people using technology for noble pursuits? Do people watch television for "the truth", or, don't they watch it for entertainment and reinforcing core beliefs which they refuse to reexamine? What's the point of advancing communication when the first data and information into the system, is spam, lies, and misinformation?
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby James S Saint » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:09 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Lack of leadership:

Due to the lack of World Wars of the twentieth century, there is a real lack of leadership throughout western society. Because there are no real challenges. War breeds innovation. Conflict is the prerequisite to all "Progress". Thus all the social changes, SJWs, "progressive" politics, are meaningless, without conflict. And conflict requires an Antagonist, Antagonism. There are 'western' archetypes, scapegoats, which we all know and blame. But the world needs new Villains if there are to be any Heroes.

Why do you think they invented "terrorists"?

surreptitious75 wrote:The other major impediment to any progress is lack of common purpose especially where there are conflicting interests

That is the same thing.

The world is far, far ahead of you on this issue. It has been going on all around you (ever see The Never Ending Story?). Progress is certainly being made, but toward what? Technology is never invented for sake of pleasing the populous. Pleasing the populous is just a small necessary burden for sake of financing the real goals, the real "progress". Wars are similar in that they are never about the people, rather about bringing about united globalist domination, control of all life, "Godwannabes".

surreptitious75 wrote:There will always be challenges as perfection is an ideal rather than an actuality.

That is true, but people do not work sufficiently that way. People are easily agitated and frightened and thus require blatant "eyes on the prize". And it is much easier to display threat than hope. So threat is used to change the world into the new design. And that means "terrorists", "wars", "mass shootings", and "evil traditionalists and conservatives" (those trying to preserve).

The thought is that one must tear down the old statue of Man in order to build the new one. And tearing down a statue involves a lot of violence, crushing pretty much everything into a fine "dust" that can then be added to some "water" to made the "clay" of the new statue. And all of that takes a lot of time. You are living through the destruction of the old, the rubble and disintegration phase.

Once the "dust" has settled, hope in the new world odor can be easily inspired. The few people remaining will be over joyed at the prospect of final victory over those evil bad guys that kept hope away from them for thousands of years ("Glory hallelujah. The Savior has come. Our new King is born!" .. yhaddi yhada...).

And it is all happening because it is completely artificial and being led by simple minded philosophies (such as what you know as "Marxism"), ignorant and blind of better ways. But it isn't merely due to the foolishness of leaders. It is largely due to the foolishness of the homosapian species (which is then maintained so as to keep making the same mode of progress - "scare them into compliance toward our supreme plan. We make Us God").
.
The few see hope in maintaining fear in the many. Thus it is so (although didn't actually have to be except homosapian just ins't all that bright).
Clarify, Verify, Instill, and Reinforce the Perception of Hopes and Threats unto Anentropic Harmony :)
Else
From THIS age of sleep, Homo-sapien shall never awake.

The Wise gather together to help one another in EVERY aspect of living.

You are always more insecure than you think, just not by what you think.
The only absolute certainty is formed by the absolute lack of alternatives.
It is not merely "do what works", but "to accomplish what purpose in what time frame at what cost".
As long as the authority is secretive, the population will be subjugated.

Amid the lack of certainty, put faith in the wiser to believe.
Devil's Motto: Make it look good, safe, innocent, and wise.. until it is too late to choose otherwise.

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = "The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is".
.
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Meno_ » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:28 pm

This is the reason that messiah's , supermen, antichrists, deliverers, fuehrers, and all kinds of charlatans are kept alive, if they fail to deliver now, they are turned into mythic proportions, as the way to do things, by modus operans. They are as necessary parts of life as bread , the bread of life. Without them, the human race would vanquish like a colony of bees or wants, and die.

That is why democracy is an untenable mythical deconstruction, and a provisional revision like Trumpism is needed at this time of doubts as to the reality of inalienable
rights and what for, is the republic stands.

Its a veiled Constitutional crisis of vast and hidden proportions, Trumpism is the comic relief to hide the huge part of a submerged iced berg.
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Arminius » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:38 pm

Urwrongx1000 wrote:Deconstructing Western Civilization.

....

So it's best to begin again ....

Beginning is possible only then, if something has already ended. So, you have to wait, if it has not ended yet. If you try to begin again before it has ended, then you just help deconstruct it and can only achieve that the end will perhaps come earlier, but this does not mean beginning but merely deconstructing.

Hopefully you will not wait too long. :wink:

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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:37 pm

James S Saint wrote:Why do you think they invented "terrorists"?

Of course, many of the 21st Century wars have been justified under the predication of terrorism, 9-11. Today (Islamic) terrorists are still high on the social and cultural suspect list, along with North Korea, neo-nazis, and supposed Russian hacker interference (completely unfounded) in western democracy.




___
Meno_ wrote:This is the reason that messiah's , supermen, antichrists, deliverers, fuehrers, and all kinds of charlatans are kept alive, if they fail to deliver now, they are turned into mythic proportions, as the way to do things, by modus operans. They are as necessary parts of life as bread , the bread of life. Without them, the human race would vanquish like a colony of bees or wants, and die.

That is why democracy is an untenable mythical deconstruction, and a provisional revision like Trumpism is needed at this time of doubts as to the reality of inalienable
rights and what for, is the republic stands.

Its a veiled Constitutional crisis of vast and hidden proportions, Trumpism is the comic relief to hide the huge part of a submerged iced berg.

Societies develop and change according to processes, like aging. There is youth, adolescence, adulthood, and senior years. To think and believe that 'western' society will last indefinitely is misguided. Or that "there will always be democracy" as-if democracy itself could not change (although it always has, historically). Thus the definitions of "Progress" have been changing too. For example, liberal-leftists, socialists, humanists, egalitarians, all believe that race-mixing, and promoting a mish-mash of genetic soup, is "Progress". And that being loyal to your own kind is stagnant or "regressive", "backward". So "Progress" is relative to particular political agendas on social or individual levels.

Democratic "Progress" implies more contributions of 'votes', as forms of legitimization to the grander body-politic. According to those pro-Democracy, everything is justified, and morally purified, by everybody voting for something (with exception of how Nazi-Germany acquired power through vast majority vote).




___
Arminius wrote:Beginning is possible only then, if something has already ended. So, you have to wait, if it has not ended yet. If you try to begin again before it has ended, then you just help deconstruct it and can only achieve that the end will perhaps come earlier, but this does not mean beginning but merely deconstructing.

Hopefully you will not wait too long. :wink:

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Deconstruction can be very easy if you know the weak points of a structure. You remove the cornerstones, strike the critical area, and the whole monstrosity tumbles down.

Knowledge and wisdom is the key. Just as a Physician intimately knows the weak areas and diseases of the body.
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Pandora » Sat Dec 16, 2017 5:10 pm

Will there even be civilizations in a borg collective?
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Re: Deconstructing Western Civilization

Postby Urwrongx1000 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:19 am

Pandora wrote:Will there even be civilizations in a borg collective?

East Asians, particularly the Chinese, are already very borg-like, specializing on uniformity and sameness, rejecting ideals of individuality and individual freedom. Also the ideology of 'individuality' focuses on separation, difference, and uniqueness. European/White genetic qualities express this as: varying hair colors, eye colors, shapes, and behavioral attributes.

If Chinese are the epitome of 'the borg' then Europeans/Whites are the opposite. Other races, like black-africans and east indians also demonstrate many 'borg' qualities of sameness throughout the populations. Uniqueness and Individuality are rare throughout nature. In fact it is the divergent strains of genetic heritage that symbolizes the "evolution" and "progress" of different species.

For example, with the advance of specific breeds of cats and dogs, people would claim that Felines or Canines have "evolved" into these positions. However that implies that domestication is a form of progress. And I agree. That is how humanity sees it, domestication as "progress", instead of as regress.
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