Autumn Asphodel

Well you can see it in politics. People have been possessed by Hillary Clinton, who in turn is evidently possessed -
there is no entity, no reality, no accountability - one facet kills, the other moralizes - both in her and her supporters.

I am not being annoying. I mean this 100%. Modern Liberal Ideology is a haunted house. Hollywood is a world of demonic possessions. Actors, in general, are schizoid and lack that singular moral accountability, as we have all been able to see recently.

I think that Trump is someone who is not possessed by spirits - and an exception in politics -
beautifully, this means he gets surrounded by spirits - like Kek, et all.

I mean this dead-seriously, Gib. I am sure our civilization has come to an end, Trump is a transition figure to prevent complete dissolution of life in the process.

Facebook makes schizoid, Snapchat guarantees complete insanity, complete detachment of ego forms from the classical notions of Apollonian unity.

(Apollo is the symbol designating one-ness of ego. Dionysos, his brother, signifies the reality underneath it - when its healthy. When its not, you get this.)

Jacob, stop tempting me to respect you.

Meet Mia:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAD3xZAysRw[/youtube]

Again, we have a Big 5. And again, one of them obviously stands out as the demon.

Mia introduces us to the concept of “fictives”–she has two and a half–the two are Harley Quinn and Twila Sparkle, and the half is Jinx. It should be obvious why Harley and Twila are called fictives, and Jinx is a “half” fictive because, from what I gather, Jinx is not really based on the fictional character from League of Legends, she only borrows her name from the character.

This concept of fictives tells us that alternate personalities are not just born as blank slates but can be bootstrapped with a fully developed character, and if that character comes bootstrapped with a history (like being from Brooklyn), then the history comes too. I don’t know if those end up becoming false memories or just a set of “facts” that the personalities believe. Or perhaps just a narrative. Jinx seems to know that she’s from Mia’s brain.

One question I have is this: why, if these personalities are invented to somehow protect the host, do we get so many cases of one or more personalities wanting to hurt the host? We have Zoe in Mia’s case, the Controller in Autumn’s case, and again in Autumn’s case, we have the “unknown” personality. At least in the case of the Unknown, Autumn tells us that it was an internalization of the accusations of being fake that she was getting. Maybe it was a way for her to feel that she was on their side rather than being their victim. Still, I can’t imagine what she gets from the Controller, or what Mia gets from Zoe.

gib

I have been keeping an eye on this thread - I find it fascinating.

A split personality could be partially(even mostly) explained by some of the ground that we have already covered together - unfortunately the ground that we covered you seemed a little turned off by. I will try to think of a better explanation than the one I had before.

The memory queue is: memory optimization.

:smiley:

I was? I don’t remember being turned off; maybe lost interest at a certain point. Remind me again what it was?

gib

Sorry if I am confusing the matter.

It may be the wrong way of me to put it “being turned off”. It could be that I was not explaining my self in such a manner that would have led to a clear understanding of what I was trying to express. I will try to think of a better explanation than the one I had before.

I am also thinking that what I said before may even seem unrelated. This sort of thing is maybe what goes on with a split personality, I am not sure.

I myself have been diagnosed with schizophrenia co-morbid anxiety and have noticed that my own memory works in a peculiar way - that sometimes different points in reality(memories) become intermingled and still seem as real to me as if I was having a memory related to my current reality at any given moment.

I feel that my mind is trying to optimize in some fashion - hopefully I am starting to make a little more sense.

I’m not sure if it has anything to do with split personality, but whether we see things as related or not has a lot to do with how our neurons are wired. For you, two ideas might be closely related because they are neurally connected in your brain. For me, there may be little neural connection.

It’s a fact that memories get distorted over time.

That’s called adaptation. We all do that. :wink:

gib

You say in the original post: Now, for me, there’s a question of whether this is real or all just an act. Given that analyzing the act seems a little boring to me then that only leaves the situation as if it is a reality for these people - so I hypothesize on the case of it being a reality.

I feel the need to hypothesize on these things, even if somewhat briefly - then I feel the need to share even when it might sound strange. I am sure the beginnings of most breakthroughs would have sounded preposterous early in their development. I present only ideas for further analysis.

I am going to proceed here rather casually and not pay too much attention to grammar or structured propositions . . .
. . . and let my discourse be more suggestive and intuitive . . .

The memory queue is: memory optimization.

The memory of these individual personalities must work in a peculiar way. Having a new personality surface for one, should be first treated as if a new baby has been born i.e. another person added to society that has a fresh set of memories. Each individual personality is different from the next, just as each one of us is different from each other and have a different set of memories.

Yes, it is, and I am thinking that it is a difference in how the memories get distorted over time that might make a difference to how a person that suffers from split personality gets there in the first place. I mean is there any evidence that these people suffer this from birth - if not then they must acquire it somehow - if so then would it not be possible that the “wiring” for memories is being done wrong - either way one has to ask how?

As with any society there is the problem of real estate; that is that the brain is only so big and linear time only allows one personality fully through at any given moment. I imagine that memories also get attached and not just distorted. In fact I imagine a few things are happening to memory in any given twenty four hour period. We assume that in most people one set of memories are being worked on by the brain at a time but this does happen in such a way as to be parallel and not just linear so therefore I suggest that the splitting of these parallel sequences is part of what is causing the split personality. The memories get attached to a particular personality.

Good points . . . I am still not convinced that how neurons are wired has as much to do with on the fly thinking as we would like to believe - I had a thought that since our thinking is always performed in the past that awareness is actually an interpolation of our two most recent memories. This kind of memory is temporary and strengthens existing connections within the brain that allow for integrations of a new memory at a later point in time. Therefore our rationality is bound by past events. If a past event is being split for a particular unknown purpose then it maybe added to a personality.

Our memories also adapt. A good example of this is when the brain heals itself - healing is a process similar to what I have presented - well at least it could be.

Keep in mind that these are some casual thoughts . . .

You would think, wouldn’t you? But the case of Mia above suggests that personalities can be spawned bootstrapped as a fully developped character with (perhaps false) memories. For example, Harley Quinn is one of Mia’s alters and she remembers being from Brooklyn.

I’ve never heard of a case of a person being born with DID. They say DID is triggered by a traumatic event. The personality splits so that one can have the experience of “it didn’t happen to me” while the other remains dormant or unconscious if it can.

That’s possible. The parallel processing of memories may be leveraged by DID.

So how would that tie into your theory about our two most recent memories? Are you saying sometimes those two memories don’t always come together? That they can sometimes split, one going off to spawn new thoughts and new memories that are completely disconnect with the other and its new thoughts and new memories?

gib

The split personality is more peculiar than I first anticipated and I can not be certain that I am not getting myself a little lost in the subject matter.

I will perhaps read up a little on DID and leave you with the following for now . . .

There must be some initial point of spawning; now that I think of it, there maybe multiple points of spawning that bootstrap this fully developed character. I am thinking if these artificial memories are really there then they could be modified memories of other memories; I wonder whether the person would have to know about Brooklyn first for it to become attached - else we are talking about a possession.

It seems to me that they are acquiring DID somehow and traumatic events must be capable of triggering the original split and lay the foundation for other splits. Maybe each personality after the first furthers the separation from the trauma allowing the true personality to lay dormant as you put it.

Parallel processing of memories

Indeed. My intuition now tells me that DID is perhaps even more complex than this. I am guessing that the the initial trauma leads to a type of PTSD. That the stress part of PTSD is not so much expressed as stress but these personalities instead . . . P-T-DID-D? Or something like that.

Well, you are of course correct that how neurons are wired has everything to do with it - my thought was relating to the “bleeding edge” of awareness; the very next decisions that we make from the state of awareness have very limited time to be made and works somewhat like a lotto machine based on many different sets of past memories << man I hope that makes sense, sometimes I confuse myself >> Your mention of the Fibonacci sequence takes me back and yes, like the Fibonacci sequence.

I use the number two to be more figurative than anything - surely it is slightly more complicated than this - however for the sake of conversation, sometimes one must reduce to the first principles that can be made of a more complex situation - so I suggest a complex interpolation of sorts with a simple idea utilizing two memories instead of the whole picture - I think it proves useful. So in saying this, I would guess the part of the memory sequence that is the furthest away from the state of awareness is somehow able to corrupt an unintended memory sequence in an around about sort of way - perhaps a part of the sequence that has been previously attached to a difference sequence altogether << this is more conceptual conversation filler than anything.

I recommend watching the videos I posted. The one on Mia is short (about 10 minutes).

Yes, but knowing otherworldly spirits, they would probably be very cautious about demonstrating things that could be pointed at as example of the truly paranormal. They don’t want to be caught.

Maybe. I think most likely: when you do it once, it becomes easier every subsequent time.

Well, PTSD is a case where the stress is too much for all the “healthy” ways of handling it are overwhelmed and consequently break down. Thus you get all these extremely eradic unusual responses… DID being one of them though rare.

You make perfect sense (unless I’m totally misinterpreting you). You mean to say when we think new thoughts–thoughts for which there is no laid down pattern. In those cases, I would think the neural pathways our thoughts take are a lot more random (i.e. creative), and if one person forms a connection between what at first are randomly connected thoughts, another person may need guidance to see how those thoughts are connected.

Ah, that is not only more realistic but believable too. The corrupting influence: do you think that might be because the distance of this memory from awareness makes it unconscious, and therefore consciousness is less able to recognize its corrupting influence?

Transgendered = mental illness.

At any rate society promotes a lot of approved forms of mental illness institutionally so no surprise there.

^^^At any rate I kinda do understand transgenderism as a mental illness to a certain point in that it practically sucks being a man in modern times if you’re not born into wealth where basically you are forced to go through life alone with no social aid, community protection, and societal empathy being male, so disenfranchised males get their penises cut off made into vaginas surgically next getting breast augmentation supposedly becoming women getting benefits from society that they would never get as being a male. This is the sick twisted world we live in.

Disenfranchised men would rather cut their dicks off added with breast augmentation and become women than deal with the sexual tyranny against them in society being male.

Add all of that with suicide rates of males and a bigger picture forms.

Of course amongst transgendered people there are enormous suicide rates also.

Mental illness is a completely subjective term. Redheads are rare… let’s call it an illness.

No comparison.

Mental illness can be measured by the degree of which one can be rational. Of course, deciding what is or is not rational is beyond the skill of most, if not all, psychiatrists, but that’s a different story.

Most people are irrational to one degree or another and in different ways. Most irrationality is not of serious issue and can even enhance the lives of other more rational people, thus is socially acceptable even at the expense of the perpetrator. Irrationality isn’t an issue until it is seen as a dangerous type. But unfortunately what is or isn’t a dangerous type of irrationality is beyond the scope of the erudite.

If a person is switching from one personality to another, the indication is that a rational choice of personality cannot be settled upon. It isn’t impossible that such switching is actually the most rational thing to do, but such would hardly ever actually be the case. Most switching of personalities (when not merely faked like these videos) is not the result of careful rational choice, but rather desperate attempts to manage what is perceived to be a untenable situation.

Again, in almost every case, such desperation is the result of biomedical/neurological and irrationality issues that are merely enhanced by psychological circumstances.

Exactly.

I fail to see your point.

I’m saying the same applies to you. transgenderism = mental illness is not a good comparison unless you’re willing to accept it’s only a subjective opinion.

Your comparison of redheads was ridiculous, that’s what my comment saying no comparison was about. For me there is no sexual confusion of biological identity that transgenderism asserts, you’re either born a man or a woman. There is no confusion of biological determination.

Transgenderism seems to be psychologically reactionary not something that is biologically determined or innate. The confusion they often express is a psychological reaction to a social environment that often enough in our present the sexes are assaulted everyday by various corruptible socio-political institutions.