Philosophy and Art

The statement that talking is language is a fact. I was talking about a fact. You are trying to put something in my mouth I never said. I did not say that there is no self-deception. If you want to tell something about self-deception, then just do it, but note that it should have to do with the topic of this thread.

Hmm…are they? Have you ever suddenly woken up in a sense ~~ out of a daydream? We think in our daydreams. I am not so sure that they are conscious thoughts…that we are conscious of them.
Some thoughts come to us suddenly from out of the blue. Are they conscious thoughts?

Would you define conscious here as something that you are aware of, self-aware of, in the moments when they are happening?

I am not saying that I am correct here. I am just wondering…

Hello Arc,long time here.

Maybe a little mediation may offer a different view.
In one sense , the thought in a dream is not one where the person dreaming can establish beyond a reasonable doubt that he is in fact dreaming.

But then in real life we have ultimately the similar problem2, hence the outcry in cases of extreme situations of feelings of unreality: “am I dreaming this?”

Not to bring back the adage, “Life is but a dream”.

I would like to know what you think about the following text:

I think that there are indeed similarities between philosophy and art in the sense of cultural forms, so that both can be in a good form and afterwards in a bad form.

When you are dreaming that “you are thinking or saying ‘am I dreaming this?’”, then your consciousness is not involved.
When you are not dreaming, but thinking or saying “am I dreaming this?”, then your consciousness is involved.

And are both now in a good or in a bad form?

I mean, think of this:

Alf wrote:

It sounds to me as though a form of consciousness is involved. If not, then how would you explain it?

It almost sounds to me as though one’s consciousness is less alert in this instance then in the former instance.
I think that I am kidding there…maybe.

Isn’t consciousness about awareness/self-awareness and sensation? Do we not have an experience of self in our dreams albeit perhaps more on a metaphorical and symbolic level?
There has to be consciousness involved in dreams. I have done any number of things in my dream state that I also do in my waking state - except for the flying.

Consciousness influences (affects) unconsciousness - and vice versa. But the dreams as such are not conscious. That’s what I am saying.

Let’s have a film production as an analogy. The film is the “dream”, the consciousnees is the “screenwriter”, the unconsciousnees is the “film producer”. The screenwriter has directly nothing to do with the film. The thoughts of the screenwriter are hidden in the script, only the language gives information about them to others. The film producer knows the script (language) of the screenwriter and the film.

Both are in bad form, of course.

Debate on Brutalist Architecture:

fee.org/articles/against-libertarian-brutalism/

A case for Brutalism:
youtube.com/watch?v=VGwVAxRHxgM

Debate on Sydney’s Sirius building:
youtube.com/watch?v=P0sBs7CDM44

The Sirius Case:
youtube.com/watch?v=u-OkL3eKmjs

youtube.com/watch?v=7aom7e29bvs

The controversial Sirius Social Housing Building:

The Barbican Story (another Brutalist social housing project):

youtube.com/watch?v=fdbSMfXbjTA

Art, Artificial == the product of an Artisan.

Cold, James, real cold. :imp:

I make an art of it. 8-[

ONLY EXAMPLES:

1) Le Corbusier:

Sainte-Marie de la Tourette near Lyon:

Unité d’habitation in Marseille:

2) Moshe Safdie:

Habitat 67 in Montreal:

Condominium in Singapore:

3) Daniel Libeskind:

Imperial War Museum North in Manchester:

Militärhistorisches Museum in Dresden:
MhM.jpg


Arthur Danto (1924-2013) and Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel (1770-1831).

**

So, we should not claim that nobody is making art any more, but that a certain history of western art has come to an end, in about the way that Hegel suggested it would. The “end of art” refers to the beginning of our modern era of art in which art no longer adheres to the constraints of imitation theory but serves a new purpose. But what exactly serves this new purpose?

Art has become dependend on money. Almost everything has become dependent on money.

They both exist… one giving way to the other.