Weakness is strength??

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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:52 pm

Phyllo ... do all educated people feel that mathematics is an important guide to the understanding of human life ... ergo ... consciousness?

I have always enjoyed simple math ... don't have the brains for the more complex math.

Let me apply my simple math skills to religions ...

Numbers testify to the "merit" in current world religions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... opulations

IMO ... the author of the stats doesn't understand Chinese Religion ... not surprising the author is likely a Western individual and few if any Westerners truly understand Chinese thought,
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:56 pm

What do you own? Nothing?


Only what I can take with me to my grave. :-)
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:05 pm

Phyllo ... I'm going for my morning walk ... I hope you have the time ... and interest ... to continue our meaningful digital conversation a bit more today,
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby phyllo » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:52 pm

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
What do you own? Nothing?


Only what I can take with me to my grave. :-)
That would seem to include experiences. :-"
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:17 am

phyllo wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:
What do you own? Nothing?


Only what I can take with me to my grave. :-)
That would seem to include experiences. :-"


Wow! that's deep Phyllo ... as in still waters run deep.

Reads like you embrace the notion we retain individual consciousness after the death of our vessel.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:37 am

Phyllo ... a few examples of how my mind cogitates ... sometimes ... while walking.

1) My first thought as I inhaled the fresh crisp morning air ... "Phyllo's flashlight is working pretty good ... he must have found durable batteries. :-)

You're like a guy telling me to drive with my eyes closed. It's not going to happen. For obvious reasons. 8)


2) Some reflection on this morning's experience(s). I woke up to our rather noisy rooster announcing the dawn of a new day. Being the victim of habit that I am ... I made my instant coffee, went out for a smoke came back sat on the sofa and fired up my old lap top. I was shocked to learn it was only 3:00AM :o I've had similar experiences ... they always remind me of the Biblical Samuel

"And Samuel got up and went to Eli and said, “Here I am; you called me.”


3) Some reflection on why I included the adjective "meaningful" as in continue our meaningful digital conversation. Here's what popped into my head:

a) To piss off Arc and Aaron. I'm only kidding ... really. :-) OK ... so I'm not only kidding ... at some level of my being I'm sincere. Though our being has many layers and I don't want to dwell on the primordial level. Yet another dig at Arc and Aaron? ... a manifestation of the "slyness" Arc accused me of in her last post? I don't know ... What is written ... is written. :-)

b) Our digital conversation feels spontaneous ... you make comments and ask questions ... I make comments and ask questions. The time lag between posts is short enough.

You're likely bored so I'll stop here. :-)
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby phyllo » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:56 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Phyllo ... do all educated people feel that mathematics is an important guide to the understanding of human life ... ergo ... consciousness?

I have always enjoyed simple math ... don't have the brains for the more complex math.

Let me apply my simple math skills to religions ...

Numbers testify to the "merit" in current world religions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... opulations

IMO ... the author of the stats doesn't understand Chinese Religion ... not surprising the author is likely a Western individual and few if any Westerners truly understand Chinese thought,
I have no idea how this relates to the previous posts. :-?
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby phyllo » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:59 am

Reads like you embrace the notion we retain individual consciousness after the death of our vessel.
That's one way to interpret it.

Another way is that you are the product of your experiences and you remember your experiences until you die - then it's all gone. :-k
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:07 am

phyllo wrote:
pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:Phyllo ... do all educated people feel that mathematics is an important guide to the understanding of human life ... ergo ... consciousness?

I have always enjoyed simple math ... don't have the brains for the more complex math.

Let me apply my simple math skills to religions ...

Numbers testify to the "merit" in current world religions:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r ... opulations

IMO ... the author of the stats doesn't understand Chinese Religion ... not surprising the author is likely a Western individual and few if any Westerners truly understand Chinese thought,
I have no idea how this relates to the previous posts. :-?


Phyllo ... people who engage in discussion of the unknown ... that which cannot be known with any degree of certainty ... are literally walking in the dark. I'm amused ... in a positive way ... that you still want to have your flash lite in hand. :) Here's the relationships as I see it:

1) People who walk in the dark without a flash lite often use there hands to feel for something familiar ... something that provides even a little of comfort from the darkness. Referring to stuff we know is a touch stone of sorts.

2) Religions have been a substantial element of our conversation.

3) Statistical mathematics has proven to be quite useful in some circumstances. The numbers suggest Buddhism ... while 2,500 years old is not in the top three world religions ... missing by a long shot ... despite being in China for more than 1,500 years.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:29 am

phyllo wrote:
Reads like you embrace the notion we retain individual consciousness after the death of our vessel.
That's one way to interpret it. It's the focal point of my Grail Quest. :-)

Another way is that you are the product of your experiences and you remember your experiences until you die -Agree wholeheartedly. Is this an instance of our like mindedness or just more of your playful facetiousness? :-) then it's all gone. :-k
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby phyllo » Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:39 pm

It's an instance of thinking about the possibilities without committing to any one in particular.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:35 pm

phyllo wrote:It's an instance of thinking about the possibilities without committing to any one in particular.


=D> =D>

Yet another illustration of your superior wisdom Phyllo ... all at the appointed time eh!
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby pilgrim-seeker_tom » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:02 am

Did the cat get your tongue Phyllo? :-)
Yeah ... in the appropriate circumstances I can be a real SOB. Even my siblings and my children can attest to this admission. You may be trying to figure out how to exploit the contradiction in my last post and an earlier post to Arc ... pick a horse ...
There is no contradiction ... let me attempt to explain ... while you're not likely interested ... other readers may be. :-)
I should acknowledge that I had a chance to check my Nooscope since my last post ... during my morning walk. A Hoopoe did a fly by in the park portion of my walk. So what eh?
Animals speak to us through their behavior patterns. (Animal Speak by Ted Andrews) Of course, humans being animals do the same.
American indigenous peoples were very familiar with this phenomenon ... as were most other ancient cultures. This phenomenon is a blessing to humanity that has largely been lost.
Several years ago I was shocked and amused to learn that the Hoopoe is the National bird for Israel.
I digress ...
The only certainty humans possess is the phenomenon known as "change" ... which manifests itself in stillness, ripples, waves and tsunamis. The human lifespan is far too short for humans to discern the subtelties in the patterns of the universe across time and space. Though some of the greatest thinkers in human history came aweful damn close with so little data.
Today ... it's different. Technoly enables a select community to gather sufficient data across a broad spectrum of time and space ... analyze the data and create charts that reveal the pulse of the universe. Must be really interesting charts eh!
In their infinite wisdom they attempt to insert their personal agenda(s) ... similar to the GMO modalities inserted into our food chain. A smart move indeed.
At some point along the road ... the law of unintentional consequences enters the scene. The AI community's repeated failures awaken the sleepy human consciousness(s). Brezinski ... a genius of of the 20th century discovered this threat many years ago.
Enough babble for one post eh!
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:01 am

phyllo wrote:
I like Mags definition ... though I would use different words. Have you read it?
You mean this :
Likeminded is being able enough to comprehend the other, which helps focus one's thoughts in seeing things without any constructed mental barriers, so as to see and think with better clarity.
I can comprehend people who have views which are completely different from mine and who think in completely different ways. I don't see that as an obstacle ... in fact, it makes the discussion much more interesting. And it forces me to get off my comfy couch and to exercise my mind.


Let's just put this down as "different strokes for different folks".

...you do that ;)
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:24 am

gib wrote:
MagsJ wrote:I think the opposite is actually true... similar ilks build each other up on a mental level, not drag each other down to the dulled physical realm of existence, where one feels one's head will explode with the usual tripe and the endless ennui becomes mind-numbingly toxic.. to the point of threatening one's wellbeing and livelihood.
I think both must be true in different ways. How 'bout this: Phyllo is right in that we all must be challenged in order to grow (no pain, no gain), but you're right Mags in that we all must have a support system in order to grow. Going out and meeting the challenges of un-like minded people is the gathering of material for growth. Returning to your peers and support group is how to best utilize that material for growth. Without material, there isn't much to grow on, even if you have the best support group in the world. But without a support group, it's difficult to know how to utilize the material for your own growth, even if you have an iron resolve to do so. The support group provides guidance, a different (perhaps objective) perspective, and also rejuvinates your confidence in case the challenges take too much of a toll on you.

Perhaps we need to be challenged in different ways/what works for us.. I know what doesn't work for me, so I won't be doing it.

Finding people en masse toxic, is an indicator to not take on those masses, but to find friendships, information, and challenges elsewhere.. now that's a challenge in itself. ;)
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:51 am

pilgrim-seeker_tom wrote:The sad truth is most of the active posters spend their talents hissing and clawing at each other.

Hissing and clawing.jpg

...not what I'd call challenging at all, and something that is reflective of the world beyond ILP.. one of toxicity and damaging modern over-competitiveness, bourne from promises of bonuses, commissions, and additional company benefits.

Not everyone needs to be pitted against each other (like animals) inorder to perform.. in fact it would switch that demographic off, not on, for lack of innovative inspiration.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:37 pm

Weakness can bring about different ways of being and living.. from necessity in having to, because there is no other option, and so we choose the one that works.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Leesajohnson » Tue May 01, 2018 1:47 pm

when you feel weakness then you should try to reform it. After some time, it is converted into strength. This is the base of human nature.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby gib » Sat May 12, 2018 2:45 am

Leesajohnson wrote:when you feel weakness then you should try to reform it. After some time, it is converted into strength. This is the base of human nature.


It's human nature, but I don't know about the base of human nature.
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He was right, dead right, as he sped along, but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Sat May 12, 2018 9:47 am

The last few miles of any journey are always tough, but the last few inches can present the biggest challenge, but by giving up a little bit of our free time so that we can go full steam ahead, could bring about the completion of this journey to nowhere in particular.. or so it feels that way.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Meno_ » Sat May 12, 2018 3:02 pm

True, the last inches, and then the escapade slows down , while the scape stretches out toward a micro, existential infinity, and strength is wasted on irrelevant projects, because the a final inside realizes he is trapped within a tiny. bubble, and although he thinks he is a Gulliver in lilliput, actually his mind scatters into a pointillistic formless being, where being most in the forest, that he can not see from the trees, with or without the aid of technology, he begins to see the periphery of the value of unoassable limits he will never be able to transcend..
He thinks going to another star system , becoming a cyborg will fit the new man, but the same limitations will decomission his bravery, because he resists the temptation of letting go any hint of his humanity, therefore abandoning the human form into pure robotic existence.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Meno_ » Sat May 12, 2018 3:33 pm

In fact, I had not read any corraborative material on this, until I found several philosophers and scientists predicting it. Elem Musk, for instance, states, that it is imperative that humans transform into cyborgs within two hundred years, or risk the prospect of becoming vastly superior robots making men into house-pets!

In all honesty, I had come upon this prediction without corraborative evidence, which kind of proves the existence of a-priori knowledge, on a more, or perhaps much more general field then what has been acknowledged so far.

And given that, is it not conceivable that cyborgs on a universal scale are already 'ouy there, perhaps invisible by virtue of a technology we ourselves possess?
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Sun May 27, 2018 6:24 am

Meno_ wrote:..he begins to see the periphery of the value of unoassable limits he will never be able to transcend..
He thinks going to another star system , becoming a cyborg will fit the new man, but the same limitations will decomission his bravery, because he resists the temptation of letting go any hint of his humanity, therefore abandoning the human form into pure robotic existence.

..the process leading to the betterment of self, or potentially to the opposite of that.. the latter and only other option being unfathomable/the awareness of human fragility, but without being able to reconcile it with ego.
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby MagsJ » Mon May 28, 2018 4:54 pm

Meno_ wrote:In fact, I had not read any corraborative material on this, until I found several philosophers and scientists predicting it. Elem Musk, for instance, states, that it is imperative that humans transform into cyborgs within two hundred years, or risk the prospect of becoming vastly superior robots making men into house-pets!

In all honesty, I had come upon this prediction without corraborative evidence, which kind of proves the existence of a-priori knowledge, on a more, or perhaps much more general field then what has been acknowledged so far.

And given that, is it not conceivable that cyborgs on a universal scale are already 'ouy there, perhaps invisible by virtue of a technology we ourselves possess?

How very Philip K Dick.

The technology of current artificial limbs (and other parts) probably stems from designing, and then ultimately building, cyborgs/cyborg parts.. which has made being an amputee, in these current times, cool. Now ain't that somethin/when being limbless is not a stigma anymore?

The mass consensus on AI taking over, is in the negative, according to the offices of national research and statistics, from around the world.

You, Meno, mix posts with poetic, like I.. and some others do here, too. It means that some deciphering is necessary in order to reply wholly to posts, such as these. ;)
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Re: Weakness is strength??

Postby Meno_ » Mon May 28, 2018 5:23 pm

Now comes the insufferable admission of lets say some kind of guilt in the respects You are considering them , Magsj.

In partita form but not necessarily separated, here is another lyric jewel.

here I am separating them, to show I can separate thought patterns even while apparently confusing them.

This is not in order to show some kind of metaphysical bravura, but an attempt to try to actually live thoughts.

And reconnect them, with the hope of not needing to recover them by reeling back to reference.

Now where was I? (Long gap while recovering initial thoughts made).......
........gasp.......and folowwd by silence.

You too are able to appreciate lyric poetry....

Oh yes...but there IS method. to the madness. Its all methodically predetermined.

Omit parts you wish or find objectionable , not necessarily objective.



Here goes. The style which lacks communication to a preferred method has mechanical flaws.

Among them , and I have partially discussed these with Carleas. that in my limited problem with methods of using technology to communicate and some failures on account, appears at times an insurmountable venture.


Never could paraphrase is unconscionable , yet here am I just a man, after 3 years here, or more than that.

Apple tech, in their help centers could not, for I have never been able to get a real computer. So struggling more than ever, the eventual happened, and I dropped my phone. feeling double then triple damaged, I went through some mental solutions, followed by periods of decompression trying to find the key to this almost paradoxical.

Actually I'm not really shy to spell it out. It is both a.strength and a weakness that. I am able to open up about this because it conflated the personal and the impersonal in such extravagant severity that it makes my blood boil

It is this, and yet Philip Dick does come into the picture in the same hole, a lot of us are in, but a hole of possible reentry, where from we have been outside of before, but I decided the forces to be a drag .

Having gotten this far, I am kind of compelled to go on for the.above reasons given, I may not remember how to connect that HUGE glaring point, no , hole, whose solution may be aggravated by (I didn't say solved) this technicality which is forth coming soon.

No I am not using these diversions to gain more attention, or devise the usual technic to a sustain some interest in writing to fill up the intervening pages between prologue and afterword,. No that should be. a viable intention though apparently still a questionable possibility.

Neither with th intention of taxing even the most imaginative consciousness

The flip flop of belief shows the tenacity of a dual purpose.


Bit here I am having invested a lot of time in an attempt.to get across, and Arc asked me very in my Being Here, what is it in trying to get across, or rather where do I want to go across to, and I implicitly thought, well through then doors, and maybe more than that, through The Doors: then other. side


So now I thought I have somehow favorably reduced the stigma of expanding on meaning through getting closer, by stretching literary style to its most utmost thinning of the reality of its fabric.

Since my phone was dropped, I am in a process of getting another one, but the original email under I registered here, and it's password have been lost. So my basic fear is (and i went through this before, ) is well grounded, at least ofntje technical side.

Now comes the fear and stigma associated with the fear of the mundane and the note worthy, so that at least some part of it still implies a connection between fantasy and.the real.

Technical reality every one is ok with, and the congruence may at as one point be extended, who knows, even though , it most probably be written down as somewhat suspect to a naturally derived delusional trait, albeit probably somewhat affected, even if, it takes place at all.



So, new phone and all, trying to sign back on, may present a problem, irrespective of what Carleas' opinion may have opened vistas of technical understanding.

He tried and seems to have downgraded my attempts at trying.to sign in. The first time I had accidentally, with the vast preponderance of the likely hood of recovering a certain pag, taking not less then a week to accomplish

It happened almost miraculously, perhaps with the help from uncertain sources from the higher realms, who knows.

Technology is at times quirky

So I am looking forward another bout with the depressive though of.reinventing the process by which I somewhat miraculously, but more probably was able to recover the page in question.

The bottom of Murphy-s Line, tempts me to not to refrain in asking the ultimate degrading question, - if all fails, can I re register using a different name and creating a new faux account: bit with the understanding that upon creating it, I can immediately disclose publicly of the identical equivalence between the two accounts?

I'm really reserved, so it makes me blush (kind of) revelations of admissions to such normally unreservedly long narrative, but times are reflexively compressed and fabricated nowedays, to actually succeed in showing the collisions taking place between proper / improper styles of communication, and perhaps the solution pretty much separating fact and.fiction is to see it from the hidden, deeply veiled hole.

Dostoevsky has been said to be.the most.clever thinkers of.all times, prefiguromg even Mr Nietzsche , for whom other influences can be.attributed, even though on the subliminal level.(Notes from Underground)


I found the Rumi-Nietzche connection on a whim, for instance, not by a chance of searching a particular chain between dots, or points , or, glaring holes.

Its likes waves, tidal at times , waning at others, but never intentionally ever sought

The solution: now that the technical aspects., of which more. Could be said, accepting.the whole, or even the Hole, even if it lands into the border between literal meaning and style and a suspected salad of trying to push the envelope.

Fear of the unknown is tempered by the knowledge that there is no bottomless pit, and the total disassociation may just be illusory, where illusion may just turn out to be just another device, without becoming devicive.


This attempt tries to overcome objections relating to moral considerations which are not directly connected to reality as " team's but tend to merge with rationalization of dubious factality.~ fasticity ?
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