Weakness is strength??

But which actually comes first - the higher level of consciousness or the detachment from things/ideas/emotions which are not important? You seem to be putting the cart before the horse here.

I like it better the way Robert Frost uttered and wrote it as opposed to Augustine…

Nothing Gold Can Stay
Robert Frost, 1874 - 1963

Nature’s first green is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her early leaf’s a flower;
But only so an hour.
Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief,
So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay

Was Augustine speaking here of “human” nature or Nature?

Pilgrim Tom,

The below caught my eye…

It seems almost to be a mantra which you are adopting. You repeated the words at least a few times.

You first made the remark as per the idea of which was more important - imagination or knowledge.

So, my question to you is: Does one size fit all here?
Do you believe, feel, intuit that in all situations and circumstances the best decision is simply to make a decision ~ that even a bad decision is better than no decision?
Is this what your experience and cognitive thinking has taught you?

Even if you are ONLY thinking in terms of principals and ideas, is this the way you would go:
A bad decision is better than no decision. Pick a horse … get on it and ride … you will eventually know

I am a skeptic. I do not roll that way.

I will wait for your answer before I go on.

Arcturus Descending

The following caught my eye . . .

What other thinking is there that is not cognitive? I already know the answer/s.

:smiley:

l. Irrational thinking.
2. Thinking that is not well thought out.
3. Thinking that ONLY serves the purpose of the one who is doing the thinking - like magical thinking or biased subjective thinking.

…ad continuum.

All 3 above relate to his statement - but that is just my opinion. There does not seem to be any ethics applied to it.

I will await his reply.

In the meantime . . .

Mind is a pattern

The image represents a thought

Ooooh, I get it. Yeah. That problem will be resolved after the summer of 2018, when I intend to quit all drugs and alcohol for at least a year (more like a year and a half).

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I think the source of the comment you are referring to is the person commenting on Augustine’s actual words. I don’t know for certain.

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Your post may have the potential to start a meaningful digital conversation.

Backdrop:

  1. I’m a small town, small minded old man.

  2. My only comfort in my old age is my pursuit of Truth.

  3. I genuinely believe … rightly or wrongly … at some point along the road words are no longer helpful … in fact they are harmful.

On to your question …

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Obviously not … the notion of individuation refutes this possibility.

Gib … drugs and alcohol are an important component of your journey.

I learned yesterday … listened to a bit of Jordan Petersen … apparently he reveres Dostoevsky … and apparently Dostoevsky’s insights came just before an epileptic fit. While I have never witnessed an epileptic fit … my impression is they are not pleasant. Apparently Dostoevsky said he would gladly exchange all his other life experiences for epileptic fits … suggests he enjoyed his insights.

I digress … my feeling is the time will come when you least expect it. :slight_smile:

Aaron … I’m not ignoring you … just feel you are well past the point where words can help. Certainly words can help your AI project but I’m more interested in “I” than “AI” :slight_smile:

I was not speaking of individuation with my above quote. I was speaking of actions having consequences in response to your “A bad decision is better than no decision.”

Yes, that is one aspect of a diamond.
I borrowed a term from someone in this forum. He used it quite awhile back. I cannot recall who it was but there was wisdom within the term/thought/decision. He said that he was trying to be a more “kind agnostic”
It gave me much food for thought insofar as my being an agnostic and not a christian anymore though at times I do fail in this regard.

So, I do agree with you insofar as this aspect goes. Some words can become harmful even within the minds of philosophers if they are Christians. It isn’t always such an easy thing to balance and to be kind when it comes to presenting our own subjective thinking (even if we intuit that we are being objective). But “Who has known the Mind of God”.

As Yeats said, we have to “balance all, call all to mind” (I so love and appreciate that phrase) so at the end of the day ~~ robbing someone of something which will NOT be harmful to them AND at the same time WILL allow them their freedom to worship in joy and afford them some comfort in the moment ~~ makes no rational sense and is unkind.

OK children, all I can see from the weakness exposed in this thread is weakness.

I see no strength in this thread. Only weakness . . .

So what is the real point of this thread? The OP doesn’t cover it . . .

Can we say with honesty that this thread is philosophical? Give an example . . .

Please don’t ask me for a definition of how I am using the word “we”.

Arc … so much for the potential I intuited in my earlier post. :cry:

I have posted more than once … something to the effect … the ILP community, individually and collectively have yuge potential.

The sad truth is most of the active posters spend their talents hissing and clawing at each other.

Hissing and clawing.jpg

I long for the day the same people will direct their talents to the greater good of humanity … beyond the tiny community of the privileged.

Aaron is the following image a correct understanding of your intention with this post?

pilgrim-seeker_tom

That is not what I was meaning. I can see why you may think that.

I will change my inquiry.

I am wondering how much closer we are getting to the idea that weakness is strength.

:-k

Aaron … as I mentioned to Ecmandu in a separate post … individuals often express their frustration with personal failure(s) in unpleasant ways. :slight_smile:

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I have been there for a long time … only you can know if you are getting any closer. I have no interest in pulling people into my thought orbits … only happy to share my opinions with the hope that sharing may help some genuine seekers.

Nonetheless … here’s a skeleton of thought … since I have no access to AI my language is much clumsier than yours. :slight_smile:

Like Minded.JPG

  1. A represents the totality of what I am at this particular moment.

  2. C represents the totality of my potential … it being constant across time and space … ergo an unlimited number of lifetimes.

  3. The intersection of A and C represents the portion of my potential I have realized so far … how many lifetimes it took to get there is an unknown.

  4. Surrender of some part of myself is required to create the necessary space for internalization of more potential. It’s the empty space in the rice bowl that provides utility. Surrender is weakness.

  5. Realizing more potential is strength.

Didn’t you use that diagram already to represent “like-mindedness”? How can it now represent “weakness is strength”?

Isn’t the part of yourself that you surrender also a part of your potential? If not then what is it?

If you kept that part and also “expanded”, then would your achievement not be greater?

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Individuals who have achieved similar portions of the totality of their individual potential must as a consequence be like minded.

A glass of water that is full to the brim yet continues to take in more water spills over … n’est-ce pas?

:astonished: Once again these individuals sounds strangely alike. My skepticism of the merits of “like-mindedness” still stands.

Well, if it’s full of water and you are only pouring in more water, then a full glass of water is “totality of potential”.

For the analogy to make sense, you would have to fill it with something other than what is already there. for example, emptying out water and filling with wine.

:-k But then you would have to explain why wine is better than water.

I also have to say that “totality of potential” sounds a lot like “destiny” which spans multiple reincarnations. A person’s entire existence seems to be completely determined from the beginning of his/her “first life”.

“Surrender” merely accelerates the journey towards the destination.

So, once you reach the “totality of potential”, what happens besides no longer being reborn.