Weakness is strength??

Meno … yet another example of your keen insight. =D>

Let me take your thought one step further … it starts with “loose the power of it’s focus” … it progresses to the death of the prior "image (ination) … a necessary outcome.

The cycle … birth/death/birth/death/birth/death ad infinitum is self evident in nature.

NT

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The same cycle is self evident in our daily lives … I favour St Augustine’s example … conversation

In human conversation the sound of each word we utter must die in order to create a womb for the gestation of the next sound. The process happens so fast we are unaware of the cycle.

The first twelve words suffice. Then next 14 are a cop out. I don’t see how the first 12 amount to ‘help’ though.

I’m thinking maybe Arc is onto something (as much of a shock as that is! :astonished: ).

Hey! :imp:

So the take home message is: you gotta have both–you’ve got to challenge yourself with exposure to opposing, possibly disconcerting, points of view, but at the same time, you need a support group in order to balance yourself out with external, possibly objective, points of view. The groupthink that occurs with prejudices and biases, like those accusing the Vegas shooting victims, could probably do with a few members of the group going out to seek different points of view and challenge their original thoughts.

Do you think if this happens, the group’s original prejudices and biases will tend to dilute and depolarize?

Huh?

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Gib … you may be right … though I can’t imagine what … tried imagining the shock you mentioned … come up blank as well. Will try again later.

You’re on to something with cop out though … not sure if I was just being lazy or simply not in the mood … as in didn’t see any merit in making the effort … still don’t.

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Huh?

You’ll need to contact the author of the quote(paraphrased) for an explanation … now that will require some imagination. :slight_smile:

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St Augustine … Confessions

Augustine Confessions.png

Why did I mention the quote from Augustine?

In the process of awakening … expanded awareness … expanded consciousness … stuff that we have clung to … perhaps for a very long time … must pass away … fade into the shadows of memory … for a higher level of consciousness to replace the former.

Well, let’s not worry about that. Your other words:

“To be true to my personal conviction … imagination is superior to knowledge”

…are supposed to be an expansion of “help”. So are you asking for help to stay true to your personal convictions?

I mean that in the nicest way possible, of course. O:)

Yes. I think that they will have to rethink based on the input from other people. Their adaption could be to become more disconnected and isolated or to absorb the input and become more moderate. The hard-core members will probably remain the same or become even more extreme but the rest will either stay if the median beliefs of the group change or they will leave the group.

Gib … I only have one conviction I really care about … I shared it in another OP in response to a question from you.

Your comments remind me of Elijah … the OT guy. Philosophy has been embedded in religion for a very long time … perhaps since the beginning.

Somewhere near the Biblical Mount Carmel event Elijah said …

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We know the religious intention of his words … what are the philosophical implications?

A “will” divided is weaker (limp along) than a single unified will. Yes or no? :slight_smile:

Of course! A will divided will conflict with itself stifling its own goals. Is that what this thread is about?

Huh?

A “will” divided points to a reluctant saint. :slight_smile:

But which actually comes first - the higher level of consciousness or the detachment from things/ideas/emotions which are not important? You seem to be putting the cart before the horse here.

I like it better the way Robert Frost uttered and wrote it as opposed to Augustine…

Nothing Gold Can Stay
Robert Frost, 1874 - 1963

Nature’s first green is gold,
Her hardest hue to hold.
Her early leaf’s a flower;
But only so an hour.
Then leaf subsides to leaf.
So Eden sank to grief,
So dawn goes down to day.
Nothing gold can stay

Was Augustine speaking here of “human” nature or Nature?

Pilgrim Tom,

The below caught my eye…

It seems almost to be a mantra which you are adopting. You repeated the words at least a few times.

You first made the remark as per the idea of which was more important - imagination or knowledge.

So, my question to you is: Does one size fit all here?
Do you believe, feel, intuit that in all situations and circumstances the best decision is simply to make a decision ~ that even a bad decision is better than no decision?
Is this what your experience and cognitive thinking has taught you?

Even if you are ONLY thinking in terms of principals and ideas, is this the way you would go:
A bad decision is better than no decision. Pick a horse … get on it and ride … you will eventually know

I am a skeptic. I do not roll that way.

I will wait for your answer before I go on.

Arcturus Descending

The following caught my eye . . .

What other thinking is there that is not cognitive? I already know the answer/s.

:smiley:

l. Irrational thinking.
2. Thinking that is not well thought out.
3. Thinking that ONLY serves the purpose of the one who is doing the thinking - like magical thinking or biased subjective thinking.

…ad continuum.

All 3 above relate to his statement - but that is just my opinion. There does not seem to be any ethics applied to it.

I will await his reply.

In the meantime . . .

Mind is a pattern

The image represents a thought

Ooooh, I get it. Yeah. That problem will be resolved after the summer of 2018, when I intend to quit all drugs and alcohol for at least a year (more like a year and a half).

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I think the source of the comment you are referring to is the person commenting on Augustine’s actual words. I don’t know for certain.

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Your post may have the potential to start a meaningful digital conversation.

Backdrop:

  1. I’m a small town, small minded old man.

  2. My only comfort in my old age is my pursuit of Truth.

  3. I genuinely believe … rightly or wrongly … at some point along the road words are no longer helpful … in fact they are harmful.

On to your question …

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Obviously not … the notion of individuation refutes this possibility.

Gib … drugs and alcohol are an important component of your journey.

I learned yesterday … listened to a bit of Jordan Petersen … apparently he reveres Dostoevsky … and apparently Dostoevsky’s insights came just before an epileptic fit. While I have never witnessed an epileptic fit … my impression is they are not pleasant. Apparently Dostoevsky said he would gladly exchange all his other life experiences for epileptic fits … suggests he enjoyed his insights.

I digress … my feeling is the time will come when you least expect it. :slight_smile:

Aaron … I’m not ignoring you … just feel you are well past the point where words can help. Certainly words can help your AI project but I’m more interested in “I” than “AI” :slight_smile: