Good I hope the planet does die, its a shitty world anyway
You are unhappy but you can change your negative mental attitude if you really want to
or you can simply carry on being miserable for the rest of your life so the choice is yours
If im gonna die and forget my life anyway forever what does it matter? see your line of thinking doesn’t add up.
It does not matter in the grand scheme of things [ nothing does ] but it does matter in the here and now so focus on that instead
So then look to living a good life while you are alive and then having a good death free from all pain and suffering for ever more
i born male but i wish i was female. good life is denied to me.
Weakness and need, but because life goes on, it has to be continuously maintained and reinforced.
You are disregarding qualitative differences of “how”. There maybe 1001 ways to get from point A to B, but it doesn’t mean they are all equal.
I’m taking that to you, the end justifies the means, but what of the “how”? Is that not relevant to you? What if “how-process” eventually determines the qualitative difference in an entity, which in turn, may even influence what goals that entity will have. And these qualitative differences come into play when using the same descriptive words. Otherwise, words like “coward”, “brave” or “self-love” become meaningless when applied to actual processes or behaviors.
Sometimes, the quickest path is also the shortsighted path. You may get something quicker now, but you (or your descendants) will definitely pay for it later. And so, what of the original goal? And more so, what can we say of such goal originator?
Joy is simply how we feel when we attain a goal.
Or as James says, when we get closer to it or make progress towards it (which is basically the same considering that moving towards a goal means attaining a sub-goal of that goal.)
It’s another word for success.
What joy doesn’t tell you is what kind of goal is attained.
It could be any kind of goal.
And what joy doesn’t tell you is what kind of effect such an attainment has on other goals.
In other words, it does not tell you whether it moves you towards or away from attaining other goals.
Doing drugs helps you get rid of pain (which is good, because pain makes you weak) but it makes it difficult for you to remain functional and most of all alive (which is a bad thing.)
People who do drugs have no other choice.
It makes no sense to say that they are moving AWAY from being alive since they have no other choice.
All the talk about how they are moving away from being alive is hypothetical. Mere "what if"s.
Sure, if they resolved their pain in a way that doesn’t have the consequences that doing drugs have they would have faced . . . better consequence.
They would have moved you closer to remaining alive than doing drugs would.
But that’s not something they can do, so it makes no sense to say that they are pursuing self-annihilation or whatever other than as a metaphor.
It’s like saying that a cow is pursuing death when she’s being slaughtered.
SHE SHOULD HAVE PREVENTED OTHERS FROM SLAUGHTERING HER, WHY DID SHE CHOOSE NOT TO?
You sound like Arc now (and the rest of Jungians): everything is beautiful, everything is holy, and I see rainbows everywhere.
It’s more like, life is suffering, and perpetuates itself through a delusion of “joy”. Take sexual pleasure in humans, which leads to reproduction, a joy that leads to more suffering (life) being brought into the world. and so on and on.
Well, sorry for not being able to see joy in perpetual struggle for survival. Should I be? The way things are built in, regardless of how I feel about it, it’s more suffering through joy, not joy through suffering.
t-e-m-p-o-r-a-r-i-l-y. Can you maintain power indefinitely? No. Back to pain you go. Like a bird in flight, you have to keep flapping your wings to stay up in the air.
It’s okay, we pigs don’t fly and so don’t mind spending our lives digging in the dirt below. 
I don’t think we’re on the same page here. When people say that purpose of life is to pursue joy or happiness and that life is about pursuing sunshine and rainbows or what not, they are forgetting the fundamental nature of life itself, and so metaphorically speaking, are moving away from life; at least in their perception. It’s a type of self delusion, or self numbing. In that case, it is a choice.
And that brings us back to qualitative differences. Given the same circumstances, a person A may not make the same choose as person B, and so not all people (or nations) are created equal. So, in case of Syrian refugees: to survive or to die defending?
Weakness = the inability to achieve a goal.
Need = that which sets goals.
Probably more than 1001. And yes, they aren’t equal. Nonetheless, it is our goal that determines what kind of means are permitted.
It is the end (i.e. our goal) that separates the good means from the bad means.
Note that there is such a thing as an organization of goals.
Goals can be organized in a hierarchy.
If all I want to do is consume something then any kind of path that lets me eat will be good. This means that eating my own parents is good too. But if there is a higher goal that demands that my parents remain alive then it’s a bad thing to eat my parents.
Yes.
You are more on track than James, but still a little bit off. Joy is not a delusion, but an illusion.
What I define as an illusion is, “A phenomenon which requires an above usual amount of complexity and maintenance to sustain itself, as well as, imaginative energy and a healthy imagination to appreciate.”
So for example, Entertainment is an illusion. Because when you break it down you say…Why is this entertaining. It should not be entertaining. But yet if you have healthy imaginative energy, it is entertaining, as long as you dont over focus on why it should not exist.
This is the same as joy.
Since joy is merely what follows when a goal is attained, saying that “the purpose of life to pursue joy” means that it does not matter what kind of goals you are pursuing so as long you can attain them. It merely indicates that people are degenerating in the sense that they are losing those tendencies that were cultivated by their ancestors. You can say they no longer have customs. If you have customs then you can’t pursue any kind of goal. Customs impose restrictions on what you can do and what you cannot do. Without them, anything goes. Wanna be a homosexual? No problem. Wanna do drugs? No problem. Wanna fuck around? No problem. And I don’t think that people “freely choose” to degenerate. They degenerate for a complex set of reasons that remain largely unknown to us. It’s a necessity. A necessity that people may and often do dislike but still a course that has to take its place. Everything has a beginning and an end.
I don’t agree with a lot of this.
For example, joy does not always follow when a mentally ill person obtains a goal, they just may say “Now what, I accomplished this and I still will die, my life is futile.”
Also, customs are somewhat irrelevant to a social genetic degeneration. What you have to pay the most attention to is dating/mating habits, and aesthetics taste. For instance I think Bandai Namco has very good aesthetics. But some scrub on the street, may prefer to play Need For Speed Nitro which is vomit inducing.
Also, the reason for social degeneration is not unknown, but obvious. Females are the deciders of the gene pool. If females lose taste, then the gene pool degenerates. And partially this is exposed with fast food. If a female enjoys McDonalds over Whole Foods she is a degenerate and will likely breed degenerates.
Also, legal systems. Legal systems enforce degeneracy. When it is illegal to fight someone or punch someone in the face, noone has any respect or kindness. And normally, people like this would be exterminated or killed off. But somehow they make it to the gene pool because noone is allowed to fight them.
Lets say the girl of your dreams decides to date this skinny, pathetic weakling runt over you. What can you do about it? Nothing, she will block you on Facebook, protected by the Legal System. And you cannot physically attack or threaten the pathetic weakling who stole your girlfriend.
Nor can you use your intelligence to outsmart a female who doesn’t want you.
Generally, most females are not interested in intelligent males, since most females crave power and control, not someone who can outsmart them. Thus intelligent males are forced to outsmart females. However this is prevented in modern times. Thus the amount of intelligent people being born and successfully breeding is rare/low.
Neitzche, Tesla, etc were intelligent and could easily have got a female to fall into their trap. But since traps are illegal in the Legal System, most intelligent males just go around aimlessly getting rejected over and over, since they are not allowed to use their intelligence to trap a female.
By trap a female, I mean something along the lines of David Bowie in Labyrinth.
Drugs. The war on drugs has the opposite effect, it makes people rebellious. People do not want to feel like they have no choice. so they choose to do drugs. A more effective technique would be “drug shaming”, ie. “You can do drugs, but if you do you are a fucking retard and not my friend and you ought to be euthanized”.
However there is hope I think, with improves in genetics technology.
Also, there are two social forces I should point out.
Feminine, and Masculine.
Yin and yang is actually incorrect, feminine is not chaos.
A better analogy would be Cat and Dog.
Cat, feminine.
This is power and control, manipulation, beauty, meekness, “The Future”, revenge, and creativity. Evolved.
Ie. this is White.
Dog, masculine
This is scatterbrainedness, mediocre taste, atheleticism, loudness, “The Now” and lack of imagination. Animal.
Ie. this is Black.
In terms of dating, modern females seem to be attracted to “The Dog/Black” and not the “The Cat/White”, and this is the cause of social degeneration.
I see need as weakness. What drives the opposite of weakness, strength? Need. And what is need based on? Perceived weakness. If it is not weakness, then tell me what the need is based on? You talk about goals, so why does one have to make goals in the first place?
You can have to same goal and different means. Why does one choose to work for money, and the other to steal it. I say, same goal, different means. You’ll probably say different means because of different goals. (I think you are seeing presence of additional goals too, which determine means).
Well, I don’t think of the second part as a “goal”, but simply as one of the means excluded in reaching the first goal. I don’t think most people have conscious hierarchy of goals in that sense. For instance, if a person’s goal is to have some money and stealing it is one possible way to get it, is the only thing that would stop him from stealing a conscious presence of a higher goal? I suppose you might say that a thief does not have a superseding goal that tells him to respect other persons earnings, making it okay to steal his money, and making stealing his functioning highest goal.
So, to bring it back, basically I see that we may be saying the same thing, except you’re also, for some reason, adding supplemental goals to the decision making process. For me, the means give a clue to the goals, usually. However, even deciphering goals through means is not always so simple because you can have the same means and different goals, too. For instance, Al Capone, the famous gangster, is known to have founded the first soup kitchens during the Great Depression in 1930s. What was his highest goal, or his primary drive, improving his own image or helping the unemployed? (same with rich giving to charities)
youtube.com/watch?v=yCMEzxJpQTs
I’d say it acts as a distraction from reality, which provides a sense of relief. Same with fiction and fantasy.
You can say that need is based on a perceived negative consequence (e.g. death.) We need to do certain things (e.g. eat food) in order to avoid perceived negative consequences (e.g. starving to death.) You can say that a need is a perceived weakness in the sense that perceiving a negative consequence means perceiving that we cannot prevent the perceived negative consequence without taking some sort of action. What you’re comparing here is your potential against the kind of potential that is required in order to prevent the perceived negative consequence without taking some sort of action. As a consequence, you call yourself weak because your potential is below the required potential.
However, saying that every need is based on some perceived negative consequence is strange. Consider that needs are usually organized in a hierarchy. There is a need that is at the top of the hierarchy, the master need, and there are all other needs that are somewhere below it on the hierarchy. Hunger, for example, is subservient to survival. We need to eat because we need to survive (i.e. prevent perceived death at some future point in time.) We agree that we eat because we perceive that we are weak but would you agree that we want to survive because we are weak?
On a more fundamental level, yes, it would be the same thing. I could say that, temporally speaking, we are constantly falling behind. An organism has to eat again and again, to sustain itself, until the day it eventually can do so no longer and it dies. The desire to survive, I mean, just to be, comes from having one’s being/existence constantly challenged by ever changing environment. It’s a forced reaction and also part of its fundamental process, its nature. I think it is this sense of weakness or falling behind (temporally speaking) that is the motivating factor. Usually it would be expressed through instinct of fear, or aversion behavior (in lower species). Of course, we also want leverage and we can make it easier for us, to the point where we even feel “strong” (temporarily), but even so, we cannot completely escape it because we evolved as part of this process, or as reactionary process (negative entropy) that has to keep up.
What happened is that you obtained one goal (e.g. you had sex with a hot lesbian) but failed to obtain another (e.g. you did not prevent your death at some future point in time.) The pleasure that you feel as a consequence of your success in relation to the first goal is overshadowed by the pain that you feel as a consequence of your failure in relation to the second goal.
It’s similar to how men often think that getting rich will solve all of their problems (i.e. help them attain all of their goals.) So when they get rich and realize that money isn’t enough they get depressed. Despite their enormous success (getting rich, you have to admit, is a huge success.)
Physical needs such as food and water are not weaknesses but necessities because without them one would simply die
The needs that would qualify as weak would be psychological for some of them are not actually necessary for survival