On Poor White America Versus Liberal Misunderstandings.

->Not stolen, say conquered.
->The South was not founded on the back of Black slaves, if anything longterm it was an economic mistake to import those slaves to the South.

Bottomline, a country which demographic wise was always above 80 to 90% White was founded by White people.

As for conquering and settling the Wild West, how can you say Whites took those lands from Mexicans when they themselves were not even able to claim those lands from the Comanches in the first place?
The descendants of the Spanish Empire just couldn’t hold on to some parts of their crumbling Empire - it happens. and then somebody else came along and conquered and settled it.

If anyone wants to live in countries which are founded and run by non-Europeans, there are plenty around the globe, wouldn’t it be much easier to go there instead of having to deal with the oppressive Europeans (and fingers crossed they actually reinvigorate their oppressiveness) in America?

Hi stat,

Nice to see another old timer doing the “quarterly” check in.

I think the problem is sort of a "into the future looking in the rear view mirror at the good 'ol days. I think it is amusing listening to the buzz words like “globalists”. (nasty people) What is funny is that the real globalists are the people who have a Norman Rockwell print hanging on the wall. What is telling is that it isn’t just happening in the U.S. It is a global phenom. It has finally dawned on people that technology has outstripped our ability to understand WTF is happening. Scared shitless, we retreat to “tradition” and all the failed ideas and policies of the past. The result is the sort of blather that has enveloped ILP.

Of course, this is derailing the thread… What was this thread supposed to be about anyway?

I was talking about historical facts.

When the United States of America were founded, there were (1) Europeans, (2) Africans as slaves, (3) Indians, Not more. And the Africans and Indians did not found the United States of America.

The Africans were in the USA before the Europeans? Initially, it was roaming Indian tribes and Europeans, no African slaves.

The Indians were nomads spanning large swaths of the US who didn’t have permanent settlements to my knowledge.

No! I said: “When the United States of America were founded, there were (1) Europeans, (2) Africans as slaves, (3) Indians” (see above), and the United States of America were founded by the constitution in 1788, but earlier, the first Africans were brought from Africa to the country which later became the United States of America. So the first of this three were the Indians, the second of this three were the Europeans, and the third of this three were the Africans. But all these three races were already there before 1788.

Yes.

Is - "So your paternal grandparents are/were lineage wise Italians themselves?
What about the spouse, is she of European descent?

When you say you identify as an american, I take it you mean by that no racial affiliation, probably not even a set of particular values, so what does this american identity mean to you?"

Yes, my grandparents were Italians. My wife is portuguese, french canadian and english/scotch/irish.

I’m not sure I have a racial affiliation because I don’t know what that means, but I am aware that I am, by all measures, a caucasion. Race itself, like all taxonomy, is a convenience. Useful in some ways, an easily perverted and misused concept and useless for some purposes.

I do have a set of particular values. And a particular set of values. Most of them, I am quite certain, are not racial or even national values. There are too many to count. The american identity that I speak of is that i was born in america and have lived here all my life. I wish some basques would move in around here. We could use a basque restaurant.

And cubans. Same reason. And I wish the sole local radio station that plays latino music played more salsa.

I value the fact that women of portuguese lineage can be very beautiful and that there are many living here.

We finally have a good mexican restaurant nearby.

Yeah, a lot of this will be about food.

I value that we have a lot of good economists in america who will tell you that you’re wrong about immigration.

Why is it that the people who blame illegal immigrants for taking their jobs never seem to blame the good ol’ americans who pay illegals illegal wages?

We do not have a moral obligation to receive refugees. We need to better regulate the O1A program. It’s being abused. We need to give the government flexibility to vary the immigration limits to reflect the demand. We need to operate our immigration policy with more economics and less moral righteousness (in both directions).

We need to stop subsidizing corn.

We need to raise the minimum wage in a more timely manner. We need workers who understand that maybe sometimes you have to do a job that sucks just to get on a payroll.

We need workers who understand English and understand the job.

I believe that a lot of Americans refuse to work with foreign immigrants where they are currently underpaid. In factory work for instance, twenty years ago unions kept American wages higher, but while unions got greedy so did the shareholders of the factories and the unions were ousted. Then the American worker said fuck working for $10 less an hour with no paid vacations, no insurance (no pensions, no benefits), with illegal immigrants who cannot speak English, Americans refusing to work jobs in which they can no longer start families or support families.

Have you noticed, Faust, that temporary job services are becoming all the rage enabling companies to have small payrolls, payrolls overlooked by many of the government regulations that businesses with larger payrolls face? Now is the refusal to hire full-time employees due to terrible government regulations, corporate greed, or what?

Walmart likes to hire workers on the pretense that they will be working full-time, but shortly after they are hired it becomes a part-time job. Hmmm, I believe a lot of companies are pulling this fast one.

In the future, the liberal offspring will say (no, there will be no liberal offspring anymore), the offspring will say: “once, evil humans lived on this planet, they had white skin, the sign of evil”.

How I can know this? Just listen to what the current “liberals” or “leftists” as the anti-whites are saying. They are the real racists, the real discriminators, the real personal attackers.

Only white Jews are allowed to thrive.

If workers need to speak english to hold a job and they don’t speak english, they won’t get the job. That’s not complex.

Americans regularly refuse jobs where they would be underpaid. Underpaid being a flexible term. I don’t know of any evidence that the presence of immigrants is a big factor here, but perhaps it is.

Please give me a verifiable example of factory work that pays less than $10.00/hr with no benefits. That simply does not happen where I live. The usual wages for the needle trades, for instance, is 13.00-18.00/hr here. Pretty much the same in the distribution sector, which utilizes workers with a similar profile. Durable goods manufacturing pays around $20.00/hr here.

This does not reflect factory workers who run the automation aspect of these operations, who can make more.

I know this because I talk to people in the needle trades and in warehousing here. Workers and owners. It’s part of my job.

Really??? I’m probably considered a liberal and I ARE white and I’m not anti-white. However, I am anti-stupidity. Lesee… I am anti- misogyny, I’m anti-immigration restrictions, I’m anti-Jew hating, I’m anti-Nazi flag waving, I’m anti-…

Maybe you’re right. Maybe I’m anti-white - at least those whites who need to demonize anyone who disagrees with them.

I can see that you demonize those who disagree with your liberal insensibilities.

“insensibilities” How cute…

Nah, I won’t waste my energy hating anyone. BUT… I can disagree with any/or all of a particular set of ideas. I think that is still allowed. In a thread replete with anti-this and anti-that, I didn’t want to be left out. It must be a terrible burden to be so anti…

You are the one who is anti, are you burdened or emboldened?

Who said they earn less than $10? I stated that factory workers may earn $10 less than they used to.

I’d bet that Mr. Eberhardt has no benefits now either.

The last bit about companies using temps rather than hiring full-time employees is a huge growing problem, but I have already covered that issue with you in an earlier post.

Is it ever of use though? I have never encountered a situation where it was.

It never speaks to values, so neither does it speak to power.
All real human values and powers are far more particular than “caucasian” or “negroid” or “semite” or “mongol”.

Meritocracy by diversity, that is American valuing.

The Faust dances?
Id lik to see that.

Portuguese is a beautiful language, too. They gave the Japanese the concept of thanking someone. (Arigato = Obrigado)

What distinguishes good Mexican food from regular Mexican food?
I am not a lover of their dressings.

Basic value.

Cause they have money and can hit back. Or maybe because they aren’t directly visible, you have to think to realize they exist.

Meritocracy is the archetypical western value-system. Marxism is one of its many dreadful antitheses. Cultural Marxism is Marxism on steroids.

Subsidizing markets is in general not such a great idea if it can be avoided. It means the market isn’t a real market. Meaning it isn’t meritocratic. A natural price-value relation isn’t to be expected.

You need to do something about the 1 trillion in student debts. Half of my generation and below is psychologically crippled by the certainty that they will never get out from under the consequences of their stupid loans that didn’t even bring them anything besides a Marxist brainwashing.

If it speaks beyond possibilities, to narrower probabilities, then it is value itself discovered or undiscovered, recognized or unrecognized just like truth.

Why wouldn’t they just meritocracy themselves right out of debt?

These bugmen agree with the muh economy angle as well but then they have the same donors behind them as do their liberal counterparts.
They even issue the same worded ’personal’ statements.

In general there is the muh feels side and the muh economy side to the kosher sandwich.
Immigration is already a given, what remains is whether or not you are swayed by the muh feels narrative or the muh economy narrative.

To not want immigration is propagated and attacked as being racist, so it is for liberals a moral issue, Faust.
It’s even a moral issue for ‘conservatives’ or cuckservatives, because really, liberals, we are not against immigration, we are not racist, we are only against illegal immigration….

Likewise anit-White is already a given, whether or not you justify it with the muh feelz (muh oppressive Whitey) or via economy (it’s a free market, goy) narrative doesn’t matter.

jake - if we have an interest in breeding an animal, recognizing the difference between race and species is useful. Races may look different (depending on what you’re looking at) but not be materially different in economic value. Sex is the same way.

In humans, race has been useful in separating slave stock from freemen, for instance. And sometimes in diagnosing illnesses or genetic predispositions to certain medical conditions.

On a different note - it’s not as if this is difficult to understand. Who is more likely to rob you (you person)? A rich man or a poor man? Someone in your ingroup or in an outgroup? What do we fear more than otherness?

Manufacturing labor is paid (more or less) based on its productivity, after accounting for supply and demand. Educated people are more in demand than they were in the 1960’s. American manufacturing had much less competition in the years after WWII than from about 1965 onward. Only productivity gains have staved off a further decline in manufacturing wages since then.

What has happened is that workers who are in demand have made unprecedented gains in purchasing power since WWII in the U.S. In truth, all workers have. factory workers can now only afford what was once a perfectly acceptable middle class house in the 50’s but no longer is. Postwar subdivisions that were regarded as a magical land of palaces are now slums. But if you track wages and standard of living for manufacturing workers since, say 1865 until now, things look awesome for factory workers here. They don;t when compared to a postwar world that could hardly be duplicated now. You know, unless millions of people died in a war.

What has also happened is that we are not yet over the romance of the ability of someone who can barely read to buy a three bedroom house in the suburbs. Even though it still does happen.

I have been involved in an effort (my role has been small) to bring manufacturing jobs back to the community in which i grew up. Garment manufacturing. I am grateful for the opportunity. I think it’s cool. But nothing we do is going to bring back 1952.

It’s the price we pay for overall prosperity and for the huge increase in purchasing power all americans enjoy. No one really talks about it because no trade union benefits by talking about it. There’s nothing in it for any lobbying group. And besides, it’s good news, which is boring.

When i was young, a mentally disabled person was not poor - they were incarcerated in a state institution.

So you are helping to increase the lower class? Congratulations. Your mentality will keep those who can read, write, and do basic maths in up and coming ghettos which of course we need more of as everybody knows.

Yes, the price that 80% of Americans pay so that 20% have their huge increase in purchasing power. It truly is a shame that the 80% are doing an honest days work but not receiving an honest days pay while the 20% are scammers and morons who support scammers.