Is North Korea successful?

Why are you defending a low quality of life?

I’m not defending anything, I 'm just explaining how things work in North Korea

Explaining it as if it’s not so bad because all the basics are paid for from cradle to grave and most of your thinking and decisions are made in advance by others, the central planning blah blah.

If you are not promoting communism, what are you doing?

I have repeatedly explained why NK is not successful, but you do not engage any of the reasons of my answers that, “No, it is not successful” from my first response that holding your population hostage is not a sign of success down to cover-ups that keep the NK public in the dark about the serious nature of the low quality goods and services.

Nobody in their right mind would ever think that communism is successful…ever.

Communism is subsistence with a gun to your head.

huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/1 … 52610.html

foxnews.com/world/2017/07/19 … -says.html

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In developed countries … in return for your enslavement you must take anti depressant medicines. :laughing:

Believe it or not, I have made a post in reply to your first objection, but it was removed misteriously by someone, maybe the admin. :astonished: :astonished: :astonished:
( well, the site admin might be a North Korean guy who feels unhappy reading my posts :confused: :confused: )

Anyway, I rewrite my reply.

Cuba, as well as North Korea can survive for decades desbite American sanction is because of this:

There are always political dissendents and people who wish to go to South Korea, BUT

For the large majority of people in North Korea, they have reached ‘an unwritten deal’ with the state
, the deal is this: the Kim family will run the state and he gives the people a welfare state, treat them nicely, provides all the basics for free, and in return the people will give their 100% loyalty to the Kim family.

Under this deal, If you disobey the leader, you have breached the contract and therefore is liable to the punishment; because you failed to honor your duty and withdraw your loyalty first, the leader will dishonor his duty and stop treating you nicely, too. he will treat you as the enemy of the state. :astonished: :astonished: :astonished:

It looks more like feudalism rather than communism.

In medievel Europe, you work for the landlord who owns the whole estate, in return the landlord will provide free housing, free food and free clothing to you; if you disobey the lord, the lord will hang you upside down.

When my friend visit North Korea, she did not go to those remote places, she only stayed in Pyongyang. Other parts of North Korea is off-limit to tourists.

So she didn’t see the subsistence or the public executions, I’d kind of figured that. Fear is the only thing that keeps those people from rebelling. They have all most likely witnessed public executions of folks who weren’t even given a fair trial, just alleged criminals put to death. Like I said, communism is subsistence with a gun to your head.

They had a choice not to support the Kim nightmare?

First, you keep using the word ’ communism’, but North Korea currently is not a communist country. What’s your reasons for you to say that North Korea is a communist country ???

Check this link: http://www.dailynk.com/english/read.php?num=14060&cataId=nk03600

North Korea looks more like feudalism rather than communism.
It is true that in the soviet union under communism the state provides its people with free welfare, but under feudalism, you work in an estate for the lord and the lord also provide you with free housing, food and other free welfare as long as you remain loyal to your lord.

Under feudalism, if the lord is getting old and then died, his son will inherite the estate and become the new lord, likewise, in North Korea, when the old Kim dies, the young kim will inherite the country. However if you take a look at the major communist countries, Soviet union, China, in communist constitutions the leader can never pass their position directly to their son when the old one is dying, to communists the North Korean practice is 20000% politically incorrect. (an example is Stalin, when Stalin is dying he did not ask his son to take his position)

If you check the North Korean constitution, you will find that the constitution states very, very clearly the Kim family is the only family that is legetimate to rule, nobody else can take the throne.
If this is not feudalism, then what is feudalism?? :open_mouth:

NK is not an orthodox communist country, nor is it an orthodox Feudal society as you keep insisting. Economically, it is pure communism. Politically, it is sovereignty ruled by a tyrant who wishes to be a king who has unlimited tickets for purchasing power. :astonished:

Why the rest of the world puts up with Kim’s ridiculousness while he torments and murders his own people, I’ll never understand.

All the tyrannies in the world need to be laid to rest.

Of course, she did not witness those things.

You use the word ‘tyranny’, and I would say this:

‘Tyranny’ is simply a subjective judgement, whether a system is tyranny or not totally depends on where you stand, and where you stand depends on where you sit under that system.

For example: In America before the black right movement, the black people in America can not vote, sometimes they are not even treated like humans by the police, for lots of black people at that time, America is a ‘white tyranny’ maintained by white police officers. But if you were a white person you will never consider America as a ‘tyranny’ country, because after all you can vote and you have your freedom of speech, and the police officers will respect your personal rights.

Likewise, for a ordinary North Korean guy, if he more or less accepts those free welfare the state provides to him and his family and he can accept many other daily inconvenience of living in North Korea, he will not likely be disloyal to the state, for him, the state is not a tyranny, the state is at worst another daily inconvenience he will live with in his life. However, the state will only becomes a ‘tyranny’ if a guy in North Korea wants more than what the state can give to him (like the right to vote) , then the state will become a tyranny for him.

How would you like to be married to him? :violence-shootself: What a treat! :evilfun:

Kim Jong un doesn’t respect the lives of his own citizens, so there would be no mercy from him towards the rest of the world.

Yes, lets. No, Trumps feelings are based on the tyranny and not exposing the rest of the world to it.

Any country ran by a ruthless dictator who has no problem executing his own citizens for trivial offenses, does not deserve to have the power to execute the rest of the world for trivial offenses.

NK is not any old country. If NK was a democratic country where the government was run by its free citizens freely, then we would not be having this silly discussion.

Trump has an obligation to the USA to take Kim Jong uns threats against the USA seriously, seriously may entail war for threatening the USA with nuclear weapons is a call to war made by NK.

North Korea is making nuclear weapons not because Kim himself wants it, but because Kim and the power structure beneath Kim–the Workers’ Party of Korea collectively want nuclear weapons, To make North Korea abandon nuclear weapons, America has to destroy the very power structure itself, and the only way to do that is for America to capture Pyongyang.

However, North Korea will 100% likely use its nuclear weapon in war to defend the capital if necessary, and this means South Korea and Japan are unlikely to join hands with America and enter the war. The result will not be the collapse of North Korea, but the collapse of South Korea- Japan- America military alliance in the far east.

Without South Korea and Japan providing necessary air and naval bases, the American army will not win the war, even if America win some battles and clear a path that leads to Pyongyang, the Chinese army right across the border will not stand idle, they will secure Pyongyang first before America

The chance of America attacking North Korea in a major war is 0,
because when you consider all the real costs of starting that war for America, the benefits of that war simply does not justify the costs.

And don’t forget the oppurtunity costs of entering a major war, if Trump decides to start the war machine, there will be not much tax-payers money left in the treasury to allow him to rebuild the broken infrastructure in America. :cry:

You’re damned if you interfere with sovereign countries and you’re damned if you don’t.

Concentration camps - look the other way. Starvation - send them free food. Human rights abuses - a strongly worded condemnation in the media and the UN. Secret police - that’s just to be expected. Etc.

The rule of thumb is that only weapons of mass destruction warrant any kind of real action. You know, maybe. Gasing a few thousand people isn’t really “mass” so it doesn’t count.

This is not the TR era : “Speak softly and carry a big stick”.

White women and all women had less rights than black men in the USA if you read the history, so being white did not necessarily give everyone a golden pass as you so mistakenly believe.

Also, there have been many unfavored white people here in the USA since the country was founded. Many whites came to the USA as indentured servants, foregoing their rights. The Irish immigrants were ill-treated as well during one period of US history.

Public executions for trivial offenses is not tyranny? And it’s not that he wants more than what the state can give him, for the state can give him much more, it’s that the state doesn’t want to give him enough food, proper water and shelter, access to adequate healthcare, etc., etc.

You would rather deny the hardships that the average folks in NK endure, insulting their humanity by trivializing hunger and fear as daily inconveniences? Where is your common sense? Where is your humanity?

At least we have access to them if needed. :evilfun:

For Kim, a North Korean citizen who accepts the free housing, free education, free food and free healthcare but hate the very system that provides those welfare is not a citizen under the system.

Under feudalism, disloyal to your lord is not some trivial offenses.

By capture, you mean flatten Pyongyang and all the other large cities?