hell

The inherent state of existence is torment.

We are inherently, perpetually bored. Femininity is an additive force. We must always exert force (work, energy) in order to avoid the inherent state of existence (neutrality).

Pain and pleasure can be roughly quantized into numerical values.

Pain tends to feel to last longer, while “time flies when we are having fun”.

If we measured how much pain and pleasure someone has, on average, the pain would be more often.

We fear death only because it is a brief moment of intense pain, sickness is a brief moment of intense pain.

We value life only because we chase after brief moments of intense pleasure.

People cling to life like cockroaches.

They are cowards in all their actions.

Stop being so miserable and nihilistic and go and find something to occupy your Mensa size brain theres plenty for you to do
You sound like an old man waiting to die you sound like me except I am not actually miserable and never really am anymore

How did you cure it?

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Death … of the ‘self’ … the ‘ego’ … the ‘I’ . The death of ‘self’ while still standing is a long difficult and painful journey.

The journey passes through five stages:

  1. denial

  2. anger

  3. bargaining

  4. depression

  5. acceptance

The above 5 stages are a part of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the one we lost(the ‘self’ … the ‘ego’ … the ‘I’). They are tools to help us frame and identify what we may be feeling.

Good stuff!

Do you think depression is anger turned inwards?

What does bargaining mean?

“A man may be born, but in order to be born he must first die, and in order to die he must first be awake.” - Gurdjieff, not that it matters :wink:

Read a bit about Gurdjieff … interesting.

A few personal opinions:

  1. One never voluntarily embarks on a journey towards the death of ‘self’.

  2. Most people on the ‘journey’ have no idea/understanding what is happening to them. Modern psychology/psychiatry can’t help … one needs to experience it to really 'know’ it. Imagine most of the people currently taking prozac … or similar anti depressants … being told they are perfectly healthy … ergo … no need of the chemical concoctions … only a need for a change in world view and consequently a change in lifestyle.

  3. Other people … often strangers … can ‘see’ what you can’t. Two personal experiences at the end of this post.

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I think depression is a manifestation … and awareness … of the ‘disconnect’. The individual’s connection to the world and worldly affairs animates us … a fracture in this connection is like a crack in a dam … at some pointy the dam will burst.

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Suppose like all notions/concepts it means different things to different people. IMO it’s the stage where one has an awareness that something happened … is happening … and they want to go back to the way it was. These people engage in a series of compromises … meant to mitigate the discomfort of a complete death of ‘self’. Eventually fatigue sets in … none of the compromises have long shelf life … and the individual moves along to the next stage.

Personal encounters/experiences along the ‘way’ that helped me understand what was happening in my ‘inner being’.

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He’s a character :slight_smile:

Definitely not while sleeping :wink:

Antidepressants are expensive tic tacs newsweek.com/why-antidepress … ebos-71111

That’s insightful because the ego is essentially our opinion of other’s opinions of us through the lens of our biases. Discovering the truth of what people see can shatter the ego.

I heard that on the sopranos. twitter.com/TheSopranoQuote/sta … 6209783808

I figured if ‘anger turned outward’ were step 2, then ‘anger turned inward’ could come next… and the realization of futility would follow.

So it’s the realization of futility?

What’s that?

Yeah, it seems the universe has an element of irreducible rascality. Any effort to tame nature seems to be met with rebellion and I suspect is has something to do with the ego not being aligned with or an artifact of nature. The ego is a fabrication and construct of imagination and doesn’t exist in reality.

Paradigms. Some animals stick to the herd and some run away. When the herd-model stops working, the species will evolve into an independent-model paradigm. The rascality is necessary for natural selection; there needs to be some rascals by chance.

Rascals are necessary.

Pretty cool!

Fencing others out fences you in.

That was a nice story. Thanks for sharing!

Serendipper … for me … vanity is a constant threat … despite serious efforts to avoid it … it bites me in the ass regularly.

This morning your thoughtful response to my post feels good!

I have come to believe that personal thoughts … not confirmed by personal experience … are like farts in a windstorm.

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My first serious attempt at expressing personal thoughts occurred in Spain in October 2000. At the time … somehow sufficient courage to attempt putting in print the result of several years of “talking to the wall” materialized … hence, the birth of my ‘sheep philosophy’ … in print.

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At the time of this experience my thoughts/feelings were:

  1. The solitary sheep in the small pen symbolizes the natural human state … isolated and detached.

  2. The heart wrenching sounds the sheep was uttering symbolize human discomfort with our natural state of isolation and detachment.

  3. The flock of sheep grazing peacefully 50 or so metres away symbolize the “balm” of congregation … a worthy distraction yet doesn’t alter our fundamental nature … isolated and detached.

  4. At the time I was uncomfortable in the ‘crowd’ … mainstream society and equally uncomfortable alone … isolated and detached. I was in Liminal Space … in transition. Today I find myself increasingly uncomfortable in the ‘crowd’ and increasing comfortable alone … isolated and detached.

Confirms UP’s opening sentence in this OP …

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A thought … like a brick … has some utility but not much.

OTH … a pile of bricks cemented together in a specific pattern provide considerable utility … for example … a shelter.

Likewise a cluster of thoughts knitted together by the symbiotic relationship between individual thoughts and personal experiences provide considerable utility.

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Hmmm!

Maybe only “during sleep” can one be placed on this journey?

UP’s comments may apply …

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Seems to me people who ‘know’ via academia … an inferior sense of knowing … experience is superior to knowledge … are ‘awake’ yet lack the motivation to embark on such a journey … the journey is the antithesis of academia.

OTH … people who unknowingly have been on the ‘journey’ … perhaps for several years … before realizing/understanding it … find it more difficult to turn back than to go forward. This has been my experience.

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Futility as in Einstein’s take on insanity … “people who do the same thing over and over again expecting a different result” :slight_smile:

No … at least not in my experience. Futility has never been much of an obstacle for a large chunk of the human family.

I’ll stick with the word “fatigue” … that state of mind, body and soul where one simply has nothing left … one is completely spent. Experienced this condition so many times during my 4,000 kilometre walk … especially the days I walked 25+ kilometres in 35+ C.

When utter fatigue finally sets in you simply don’t care any more … one way or the other. Before long stuff starts to happen without any effort, stress or motivation … Wu Wei … as interpreted by Super Chakra. In my case … coming to China in 2005 was one such event. China wasn’t even on the radar … ever in my life … and my 12th anniversary living in China is just around the corner.

Alan Watts has helped me a lot. You may enjoy listening to his lectures, but do so only if it’s fun :wink: What I’ve learned from him is if our motivation is anything but fun, then it’s likely feeding the ego.

Here is an example he gave:
Student: Teach me to meditate.
Master: Why do you want to know?

If we meditate for the purpose of becoming ‘better’, then it’s feeding the ego. Therefore the only reason to do it is because we like to do it and nothing more.

Another example he gives is, “Anyone who goes to a shrink ought to have his head examined.” That means if you think you need help, then you must seek it until you realize that help is futile. It’s a process one has to endure to come to the necessary realization that acts of self-improvement only serve to perpetuate our condition.

A proverb is no proverb until life has illustrated it. - John Keats

Sheeple :animals-sheep:

Reminds me of, “If I am I because I am I, and you are you because you are you, then I am I and you are you. But if I am I because you are you and you are you because I am I, then I am not I and you are not you!”

If I am distinct because of ‘others’, then I depend on others to be distinct, therefore I am not distinct but part of a codependency.

What do you think when you see this?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1Q-EbX6dso[/youtube]

Maybe there is no shepherd?

That one had relevancy for me many years ago while dating someone who pushed people away. The rest of the story is “You have to go out on a limb because that is where the fruit is.” Don’t push everyone away. You have to trust someone.

Life is supposed to be difficult so that the best survive and evolve in the right direction. If pain were not elemental, then there would be no direction for natural selection. Of course, we have to eat bitter to taste sweet.

Coincidentally, it dawned on me today what the “light that never warms” means in this song:

Four winds at the Four Winds Bar
Two doors locked and windows barred
One door left to take you in
The other one just mirrors it

Hellish glare and inference
The other one’s a duplicate
The Queenly flux, eternal light
Or the light that never warms
Yes the light that never, never warms

People have said that the light that never warms is the moon, since the song is called astronomy, but what about knowledge? You can build a shelter from knowledge, as you pointed out, but it can’t warm you.

Full lyrics azlyrics.com/lyrics/metalli … onomy.html

You appear to be reinventing Zen :wink:

I transcribed this from an Alan Watts video:

Just had another one of those "I don’t care one way or the other" moments

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Hell beyond the realm of human suffering is redundancy.
“No God will punish a mortal for following his energy”(paraphrase)----Wm.Blake.
Eternal punishment for what is done in a lifetime is an example of the punishment outweighing the crime.

Agreed Ierrellus.

On reflection, UP’s OP suggests … Hell = life on earth (The inherent state of existence is torment.)

Life on earth can be quite enjoyable in a dream-like state … dream like meaning when one learns to block out all the pain and suffering (torment) one’s actions hoist onto one’s neighbors.

Ergo …

Life in my little world is OK … who cares if life in “The World” is not OK.