Reality - Version 0.1

James

I stated once before - language has become quite the chasm; this is one of the few reasons I avoid this thread for longer than I would like to.
With a bit of “luck” I may be able to shed some light on the situation from my corner of the globe . . .

I agree. Fear seems to be what stops people finding their highest priority for certain. But I sense there is more to it than this - more to it than the clouds and the light too. I sense anger specifically. Why is it that I sense that? The answer comes down to specifically the wording you are using: obfuscation and extortion is Man’s current means to manage the masses. It really drives a point home - so to speak. I believe people are angry too.

Do we have solid proof of this in either case?

► I do not believe so because it is difficult to trust nearly every source of information that is not able to be verified.
► We are left with assumptions in many cases . . . because . . . most sources of information are unable to be verified properly.
► We are left with ballyhoo and hysteria - which in turn also affects are other regular items of life - like conversations.

That makes perfect sense if I read it outside the rest of the conversation we are having. If I read it with the rest of the conversation we are having in mind I come to the following: so are you saying because you have MIJOT you know or because I did not give you an answer straight away I don’t/didn’t or both? Hopefully a little further into this post I am able to demonstrate this in a way that is clear to you.

I kind of see what you mean here - I know a lot of things that affect people but I am not certain if they would be specifically the things you are talking about.

It appears to be a statement of curiosity to me - a declarative sentence - can you please tell me how it appears to be two questions to you?

Perhaps because I added the following:

In which case it was possibly left open and in an ambiguous state wasn’t it? After all I may have been referring to the following:

Perhaps I was even referring to the whole conversation or perhaps it appeared to be two questions to you for some other reason that I am missing entirely - in which case the best thing for me to do is read back over this conversation from the start of this conversation after I finish this post - and the kindest thing you could do is elaborate if you know what I am missing in this instance - it should become more obvious to either of us who the other answers first - in other words I am willing to make an addendum if I find it(that which I might be overlooking) first.

I have made concessions for the cultural and language usage differences because it is quite obvious to me that we are from different backgrounds/countries.

To get somewhere however I feel it is necessary for us to be providing some meta-information on our individual contexts.

encode_decode wrote:

I thought about this for awhile and I am tending to agree with James here, encode_decode.
You made the statement that your highest priority is your family’s survival.
That can also be taken to mean that your ongoing highest priority goal is you family’s survival.
One’s highest priority would necessarily be one’s highest goal. I think that the goal is understood in highest priority.

But, what you would appear to be saying, at least to me, is that at some point your family’s survival would might cease to be your highest priority.

There are such fine nuances within the English language that we don’t even realize at times what it is we are actually saying.
I have no doubt though that your family’s survival is your highest priority at whatever moments in time.

I hope that I have no muddied the waters here.

I really don’t understand where I am going wrong - everything is working fine in my location.

No, you have not muddied the waters.

James

I have thought about this further . . .

So “best rules” are variable?

:-k

Why does rational thought require a highest priority goal? You are saying that a person can not think logically if they do not have a goal.

encode_decode

I know that ultimate here is an adjective for you but what definition mostly speaks to what you are pointing to?

adjective

  1. last; furthest or farthest; ending a process or series:
    the ultimate point in a journey; the ultimate style in hats.

  2. maximum; decisive; conclusive:
    the ultimate authority; the ultimate weapon.

  3. highest; not subsidiary:
    ultimate goal in life.

  4. basic; fundamental; representing a limit beyond which further progress, as in investigation or analysis, is impossible:
    the ultimate particle; ultimate principles.

  5. final; total:
    the ultimate consequences; the ultimate cost of a project.

  6. not to be improved upon or surpassed; greatest; unsurpassed:
    the ultimate vacation spot; the ultimate stupidity.

noun
7. the final point; final result.

  1. a fundamental fact or principle.

  2. the best, greatest, or most extreme of its kind.

By a clear truth, do you mean only one?

I am not saying that one necessarily cannot as I do not know but is it actually possible to achieve a clear truth in life as a goal?
When it comes to truth, aren’t many more or less simply opinion, even though perhaps informed opinions?

Does truth as you have it include proven fact? I think, but do not know, that you may be referring to truth as more metaphysical.

Can there ever really be a clear truth in life since truth can change, our perspectives or subjective truths, can change, scientific knowledge can change (yes or no?

You are bringing out the big guns - did you take a proton pill?

:laughing:

Truth does not change. It is an absolute, like one’s gender (XX or XY chromosomes).

Maybe the only thing we can say with certainty is that we exist.

:-k

Non-existence is a fantasy.

Exactly.

Wow, that was too easy! :-k What are you up to? :evilfun: :laughing:

WendyDarling

I do believe we were already agreeing on existence - I suggested that the only thing we can say with certainty is that we exist - you suggested that non-existence is a fantasy. There are many aspects of existence that we already agree on WendyDarling.

I have been spending some time looking around ILP, reading many different threads and posts. I have become quite interested in the differing points of view that people have. The human mind is breathtaking when I consider the diversity of imaginings possible that it can collectively give us.

The mind reminds me of the ancient Chinese game, Go. Go has more possibilities than the number of atoms in the visible universe. That tells me that the mind has many more possibilities - if I am calculating this correctly then the mind is capable of devising more versions of reality than the total number of atoms in the visible universe.

Staggering - and that is just the versions of reality . . . Now I am contemplating whether non-reality is also fantasy . . .

That is what I have been up to on ILP.

Otherwise I have been digging deeper into the complexities of emotions and logic - fun stuff . . . :laughing:

That was of course prior to responding to you.

:smiley:

How about you? What are you up to? :evilfun: :laughing:

But then, what does it mean “to exist”?

James

I think that what it means to exist, is to have objective reality, to occur, to be affected by the surrounding existence and to affect the surrounding existence.

At a more abstract level: To consume and be consumed. Your constituents are permanent.

My head is pounding - so slap me silly if you have to, and correct me if I am mistaken.

Non-existence is but a shallow concept . . .

In which case, isn’t it also certainly true that something else exists besides us, “surrounding us”?
That makes two. :sunglasses:

James

Part of what I said previously is summed up in your signature:

The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is = “The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is”.

An unchanging situation is a fantasy.

Yes it is certain that something else exists besides us - yet another truth. What it is that we are a part of, surrounds us and also exists - to put it simply.

To neatly summarize:

  1. The Real God ≡ The reason/cause for the Universe being what it is . . .
    . . . “The situation cannot be what it is and also remain as it is”.
  2. It is a certainty that we exist.
  3. To exist is to be affected by the surrounding existence and to affect the surrounding existence.
  4. What it is that we are a part of, surrounds us and also exists . . .
    . . . “We are inseparable from that which surrounds us”.
    I believe that to say that we can be separate from that which surrounds us is yet another shallow concept.

What I have learnt from you among other things is that infinite homogeneity cannot exist - each point in space has the potential to affect - anything without physical affect cannot physically exist. Hopefully I got those three things right.

I am happy enough with my answer to hit the submit button. I am not quite certain if it is the answer to your question though.

The number of things that can be said with certainty is endless. :sunglasses:

… the exact opposite of common rhetoric.

I disagree if a constant is unchanging (pi or the speed of light), but I would also add that the unchanging situation that exists, exists among other unchanging situations, so variety (or the appearance of change) is found in the multiple of situations recognized as a whole. Is the path of a charged electron constant?

James

I already believe:

That would be the meaning of: My ultimate goal is a clear truth in life - that could take some time to achieve.

The list of four in my previous post is far from complete - however I do not think it is a list that can be completed.

To obtain a clear truth in life, is not necessarily, to obtain the complete truth. Truth is endless.