Why there is belief in an afterlife

It’s not a refutation. It’s a clarification. Fixed Cross is neglecting you and others in this thread by not going in-depth.

Dante’s epic work did create new depths and notions into the Roman Catholic idea of hell and the devil. The modern “devil” is an artistic, poetic invention, in this regard. And Fixed already pointed out that “hell” was created by the Romans. You are saying it was created by Roman Catholics… are you aware that Rome became Christian? And that Christianity became… Roman? There is no disagreement in your two positions here.

Yes we know the dark ages were terribly ‘dark’. That doesn’t clarify what Fixed was saying, in any way.

Why don’t you pick out what you think Fixed said is inaccurate or significantly insufficient, and demonstrate what is missing? Because if your claim to this effect is basically “the dark ages sucked” and “Hell was invented by Catholics and used for the purposes of social control”, that doesn’t disjoint with anything Fixed was saying. He already basically said the exact same thing. But you are free to actually make your case, if you want. It would be preferable for you to make the case rather than just come in here, post a couple obvious supplementary things, and then say Fixed doesn’t know what he is talking about.

This, “Fixed Cross, you amateur…” is not supported by what you have written so far here.

“Fixed Cross is neglecting you and others in this thread by not going in-depth.”

Really?

^ seems pretty in-depth to me.

You are both doing in-depth analysis here. I do not understand your unreasonable antipathy for what Fixed said. Especially since you haven’t pointed out a single thing he said with which you disagree.

Personally speaking, I think that it all comes down to fear ~~ of one’s losing self, ego, whatever you want to call it. We find ourselves very attached to this life, to our human experience.

How do you figure this, Jakob? Are you projecting again? :stuck_out_tongue:
Many who believe in an afterlife take no time at all to question its validity, to step out on that limb and ask their selves? "But do I really believe? Is there really something after death? Or is Death the very end to me?
Then what do they do? They stifle that urge to question so that their ego may always live on in the back of their minds.

How does belief in an afterlife mark one as being more fit?
Well, I suppose that just may depend on the individual.

The way I look at it ~~ going on, living one’s life while knowing that Death is always there, that one cannot escape it, and that that may very well be all there is ~~ just this one life ~~ this to me is what may make one FIT in all ways possible.

But again, I think it would depend on the INDIVIDUAL.

Of course, there is no way to prove anything either way. So we all have our own way of dealing or detaching from this and learn to live in negative capability.
We look up at the sky and the stars and come to ask ourselves: What’s the difference? I am Here and Now ~~ and just Look what I have!
We flow on.

Obviously Dantes tortures were based on real tortures.
You missed the point of this thread about afterlife.

I don’t think there is any literate who doesn’t know this.
You’ve credibly backed up my suggestion that the Church commissioned Dantes work.

I can’t argue with opinions.

Arc, dont. Youre not a troll, youre not funny when you try.

I can accept that the is probably the case for weakened, urbanized people. However, I made a logical argument for its origin as a quality that allows for more courageous living. Id like to see my arguments addressed.

It is very easy to see the logic of how cowardice can not, in the original, uncivilized situation on Earth, have been prior to courage in the process of creating such myths.

I respect your opinion.

We can actually prove these things by logic, as you can see in this thread, where I did just that.

Or else what? God will ruin my life? As if my life doesn’t already suck?

And you’re telling me kissing feet is not sexual at all? The Americanized word love implies the totality of all 6 different Greek words of Love. This includes sexual and romantic love. If heaven doesn’t have sex in it, I’d don’t want to go.

The Bible says God commanded the Jews to slaughter the philistines and gentiles. What do you think of that? God is more evil than Hitler because God both genocided and created Hell, Hitler genocided, but didn’t even create Hell.

Now you keep talking about this Truth thing. Truth is what is. Like, what is apparent to your waking, non-fantasy consciousness. God doesn’t seem to exist, according to my waking consciousness.

Fixed Cross

Hi Jakob,

Yet, don’t you think that for the most part, what we are arguing about in here is just our own opinion, perspective, subjective thinking ~~ based on what we as individuals see ~~ except for what we know, what has been proven to be fact.

Jakob, is there a difference between affectionate teasing and trolling?
An enquiring mind would like to know. I did not see that as trolling.

I think that that may be an individual thing. As for your so-called weakened, urbanized people, do you really believe that many of them have a belief in God, considering what their lives are? Some yes but many no. Some may believe without caring either way. But that’s just my subjective thinking.

Okay, there is always another side to the coin Jakob. I have known and know some people (and I am sure that there are many) for whom their belief in God allow them to be strong and to move forward…as you say ~~ to be fit. They believe that God has given them a purpose. They believe that this God, their God, will not fail them. That kind of faith gives them the strength to go on, no matter how afraid they are, no matter what it is that is going on their lives. Pain, loss, disease. They have the will to go on because of what they believe.
So I will grant you that it does make for more courageous living.
But, what is the bottom line here?

Aren’t/weren’t myths created to explain the unexplainable, the unknowable? That’s not to say that there is not great beauty and meaning within myths and truths. I don’t like to throw the gorgeous baby out with the dirty bath water.
As for the rest, I’m not sure that i understand what you’re saying here. But then, I’m not such a logical person, as you well know. :evilfun:
But if I am understanding you, can we actually know this? There would be both the coward ~~ and the dreamer, the creator, the seeker after truth, the builder, ad continuum…
But show me the logic please.

Thank you for respecting my opinion. I think that when it comes right down it, that is an important part of discussion; that is unless the opinion is really off the wall.
Then what do we do in a case like that? I’m really asking for your opinion.

What is it again which you have proven by logic? How people become more fit and live more courageously for their belief in God and the afterlife?
If that is the case, I don’t think that this has been proven so much by logic, Jakob, but perhaps I am wrong here. Maybe I wouldn’t know logic if it hit me in the face lol but I will say that the proof is in the pudding.
But I would also say that faith and belief can stand on very unstable ground.
I’m a skeptic.
But would I wish for a collapse of people’s religious beliefs and faith?
No, not if it would cause them great harm and anguish…unless it would cause the same for others. I’ve already gone through the anguish part of it and so I know how valuable it can be to others.
We all need something that we can reasonably believe in.

Sometimes I think it would be better for me to stay out of all religion threads. I want to be a kind agnostic but sometimes I can see it not happening that way. I flare up inside. lol

Just because I am not capable of seeing something, and have my own opinion of things which I see in a certain way as not being in a certain way , and even to say in a certain way, do I have even have a right to express my opinion when it comes to certain particular ways of thinking?
I have an ego but do I have a right to topple over another’s canoe? I grapple with that thought.

Erik,
Why do I get the impression that you avoided most everything that I wrote so far?

If life is indestructible then wouldn’t belief in an afterlife be anti-nature?

Like anti-matter?

I don’t know what that means, really.
Existence is not a zero sum game, its not like for every human there is an anti-human.

Like going against nature, negating this life. But I’m thinking of the Christian afterlife which is absolute and which completely blunders what “eternity” is.

From WTP

“The places of origin of the notion of “another world”: the philosopher, who invents a world of reason, where reason and the logical functions are adequate: this is the origin of the “true” world; the religious man, who invents a “divine world”: this is the origin of the “denaturalized, anti- natural” world; the moral man, who invents a “free world”: this is the origin of the “good, perfect, just, holy” world. What the three places of origin have in common: the psycho-logical blunder, the physiological confusions. By what attributes is the “other world,” as it actually appears in history, distinguished? By the stigmata of philosophical, religious, moral prejudice. The “other world,” as illumined by these facts, as a synonym for nonbeing, nonliving, not wanting to live-- General insight: it is the instinct of life-weariness, and not that of life, which has created the “other world.” Consequence: philosophy, religion, and morality are symptoms of decadence.”

Why isn’t this the “another world?” What makes you think that you are mortal, that your consciousness is mortal, rather than just your human body?

Belief in afterlife means that you cannot accept reality i.e. that once you die you lose everything.
Once you start believing in afterlife then dying becomes easy because the consequences of death are then perceived to be positive.
It’s much more difficult to kill yourself when you know that by killing yourself you lose everything.

Earth is one reality, plane of existence, dimension, you only lose what it provides, not your actual self.

There is no afterlife, it’s all life, eternal, you just wear different bodies.

Immortality is no piece of cake. If you think “humanity” is insane now, try 4000 years from now. How long can a being live without going insane?

You lose your body and whatever your body supports.
It is true that you do not lose everything in the literal sense of the word.
For example, you can die but your children can continue to live.
Many philosophers died childless but their work continued to live.
All of these are earthly.
No need for heaven.

It has more to do with brain health, keeping it from oxidizing, living a happy and rewarding lifestyle, you’d be suprised.

It’s not about brain health, it’s about soul health…sorry.

So like…if you are immortal, and you drink a bunch of neurotoxin, your soul, will carry on, and you definitely won’t go insane?