What Of Your Essence?

Now you are making a distinction between a true statement and a truth, why? I mean, you are still not answering my question. I’m talking about the totality of what’s behind the Wizard of Oz’s curtain, not how to id a circle.

Other than a property of statements, I’m not sure what a “truth” is. Like I said, I don’t believe truth is an object, it’s not something floating around out there. I suppose what you’re talking about is what some people call “the Truth”–as in, “I want to know the Truth.” ← But what is that? What is “the Truth” in general? Is it the whole body of specific truths? Is it the state of reality summed up in one principle? Is it just the state of reality itself? What?

Hey, what’s going on here? :-k You are supposed to be answering questions, not asking a gazillion more. :smiley: :laughing:

Oh, I’m just getting started. :laughing:

Maybe we can do this: you seem to be partial to “essences”–the being of things that defines them as what they are, a sort of “soul” of things–I’m not against essences at all–I believe in them too–but I think they project from us–we give things their essences–they project from thought, from concepts. For me, this sort of puts them in a timeless state. If the essence of something is what defines it as the thing it is, then essences are definitions, the “is-ness” of a thing. Definitions are timeless. If we define a square as a polygon with four equal sides and four right angles, then that holds for all squares for all time–it doesn’t change as a function of time. ← This is where you get your constant. The only difference for me is that I think of such definitions as timeless–not time-bound and unchanging throughout time–but literally outside time (or rather, atemporal). For me, the word “constant” or “unchanging” makes little sense in this context–constancy and change only makes sense within time, a medium in which things can be constant or changing. I don’t think of things outside this context as “constant”. ← And that is probably where our communication breaks down.

Fine, essences are timeless, now what?

Now we have a whole new understanding of what it means for an essence to be “constant”–one that we can agree on. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Great, how will you identify your constant? :-k

You see innocence there. Do his eyes and body language tell you anything different or more?

idunno. If I identify something, I see its essence. ← That would be its constant.

What about you is constant?

Arcturus Descending

I have decided to remain hung up on extraneous, external change for the time being.

:smiley:

You mean what is my essence? I see myself every time I look in the mirror. I identify myself. I say: “That’s gib.” This happens every time. The next time I stand in front of the mirror, I will say: “Yep, still gib.”

But this identification is a recurrence. I sometimes pull away from the mirror and think of other things. The identification comes back only on occasion.

As for the gib I’ve identified, I’m not sure he will stay the same gib forever. I may look in the mirror in 10 years from now and say: “That’s not the same gib I used to be.” Or I may not. I may think it’s the same gib, but trust me, I will have changed.

My constant is my Ich und Du love relationship with the universe which includes nature - the above and below. I cannot see that as ever changing.
The universe is my Lover and I am the Universe’s. I and Thou.

Arcturus Descending

That is beautiful. I like the way you think.

:smiley:

Thank you. And where do those thoughts come from, encode_decode? :evilfun:

Arcturus Descending

Umm . . . quite possibly a beautiful mind . . . what do you think Arcturus Descending?

:evilfun:

:evilfun: Thank you again, encode_decode, but I was referring to a much deeper place though the mind does touch down and affect everything.

I was considering sensations of the Heart. But then again, a sense of qualia come from both, right?

I speak in terms of spirit - and heart - qualia in terms of conscious and conscience - I would say all three is where your Ich und Du love relationship is coming from.

I was saving this for another occasion but I will put it here too:

I also have reason to believe that the universe is intelligent - just not as we know it - whether it is aware of us in a way that we are used to being aware is unknown to me. Our awareness seems to boil down to reality, logic and emotions. The universe might experience these properties in a much different way. The fact that love is a fact of life may even suggest that the universe understands love - just not in a way that we are able to comprehend. Everything that we experience may be much different in the universe’s experience. The universe and everything in it has a tendency to organize itself. A star system is just an organization of configured and evolved objects that displace the area that they occupy. A planet is configured and a star evolves.
[-o<

That was beautiful and I do agree with you ~~ the Universe can be seen to be intelligent in the way in which it is structured, evolves and operates. It boggles my mind but perhaps that is just because I do not much understand its workings. This is why I remain an agnostic.
We can never know but we can have such an experience of not knowing that it becomes beautiful to us.

As for the rest, I have also intuited what you say but I find that there is just such a veil before my eyes that so much is left hidden but again I have the experience of it and that I am somehow loved by the Universe.

I truly sense as Shakespeare said through Hamlet that “there are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio,than are dreamt of in your philosophy [science]”. Even though so much less was known in Shakespeare’s time, I can say that even today he might be uttering these same words with what has become known to us.