Weakness is strength??

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It just always confounds me when a word is defined by using the exact word.

Have you caught up yet? A bit of shorthand would be good.
I wasn’t so much speaking about understanding what a person says although that can be extremely helpful. I was speaking more about digging down and trying to understand where that person is “coming from”
~~ in a way, understanding where that person “lives”, who he is at his core.

I agree with you but even more so as to the latter. But then again, maybe at times we are not even aware when we are trying to deceive others. Perhaps it becomes so engrained within us if we do it so often that it appears to be truth. It isn’t just about lying - we become the Lie.

We have to be aware that we have a dark side and be unafraid to peer into it.

Sigh…

Would you consider having sex with a person you perceived as undesirable?

From my own point of view, it would be pretty bloody awful.

Magnus Anderson

Because his hands are roaming around, silly. His eyes are intent on that.

Many perspectives are subjective because it is the particular mind regarding something. But many can also be more objective than others.

Yes, the concept of a god is subjective. No one has ever proved or disproved a god’s existence.

That’s not the point that was made. I wasn’t even talking about human sexual attraction. I was just responding to:

Sexual feelings are not a prerequisite to perceiving this or that as beautiful, and also, that which inspires sexual feelings does not need to be perceived as beautiful by the subject.

Do you only find a thing beautiful if it stimulates you in that way?

Why did you change my name?

Anyway, I think that there are many different ways we come to consider a thing or a person beautiful. Generally, and this is the type or experience of beauty most people allude to, its related to certain forms we are receptive/sensitive to - this type of beauty is a response to sensory stimuli. Other ways we come to experience beauty is due to our own personal experiences which lead us to respond to certain stimuli more strongly than we would have without those experiences - this type of beauty is a response to, or consequence of, historical awareness or past events (this is related to the first point, but within a tighter time frame). Beauty is an experience, what’s the point of limiting it to, or conflating it with, the perception of physical symmetry or otherwise? Many people can appreciate great physical symmetry, and nevertheless, have no experience of beauty. Happens all the time, constantly.

I will confer with Kris when she’s back… she’s not been on for a while.

I have found that I’m even more lassiez faire/care not than I used to be, but at the same time more sterner, but still resolving issues with others in a hypocratic way… like I’ve always done.

Yes, and I’ve found them on a CF forum where we swap advice and give support to each other… which nobody else can truly understand or give, or the entailing dark humour that goes with it.

So I had to nearly die to see more clearly? I’m not sold on the idea, but I’m not sceptical of it…

They cannot currently undo the state of human hibernation that some of us have found ourselves in, but they think it a reaction to a toxic world to survive… says a lot about the current state of our planet, food, and environment, doesn’t it.

Without a lacking, a weakness, why would we grow to be more, better, than we were? What does perfection need to be or do?

That’s a positive sign Mags … at the end of this post I reprinted some babble I wrote about 15 years ago … at the time I was already 10 years past my ‘milestone’ experience and still wasn’t sure what was going on.

I have always found we get precisely the help we need … when we need it … even when we are not aware that we need it.

There may be a mathematical relationship between the severity of the ‘jolt’ and the difficulty of the task(s) that lie ahead. Such a serious ‘jolt’ suggests you will be facing some serious and difficult task(s).

Hibernation is a wonderful choice of words … it’s a survival instinct … sleep when nature doesn’t provide conditions or food conducive to survival. I went into “hibernation” mode several times during the past 25 years. Seems we are brought out of hibernation when the circumstances are appropriate to our journey.

I do not think I am yet in a position to self-analyse my situation, but I can see the manifestation of the effect from the cause(s) and the journey that got me there… my visualisation of the situation is of a train… as opposed to your egg, but a rusty rust-bucket of a train… a deserted one… not one all shiny and in service.

Not a good situation for those that aren’t great with responsibility to find themselves in :neutral_face:

Do you have any idea what triggered yours? Did the state diminish the quality of your life… relationship/career wise? and what brought you out of it/of the cycle?

“a rusty rust-bucket of a train” … very a propos analogy Mags … a caterpillar is not very attractive either … but who doesn’t love a butterfly. :slight_smile:

Mags … not sure if my memory serves me well … senility set in some time ago … seems I recall you taking some test post on ILP and the results clearly labelled you as a “leader” … you replied something to the effect … I prefer to sit in the middle of the bus and observe. The term “reluctant saint” comes to mind. :slight_smile:

I prefer to believe the “how it happened” is irrelevant … the result is always the same … it’s like being “thrown off the train” … “plucked out of the crowd” . In the very early stages of my milestone experience the local priest said to me … “If God is calling you … He will call you alone” I understood his comment to mean God will hearken no competition … no distractions. :slight_smile:

Mags I have published more than 700 pages of babble … some anecdotal (answers to your questions) … some thoughts … some opinions etc. When I read my earlier babble I clearly see how my thinking has changed … evolved … over the past 25 years.

pilgrimtom.weebly.com/

thoughtsofamisfit.weebly.com/

Mags … I learned the term “reluctant saint” recently … here … decentfilms.com/articles/reluctantsaint

Not so much a transformation as a re-introduction to self… I guess a jolt would facilitate the need for that in anyone?

…or simply just nosey? :smiley:

…it is indeed a lone predicament to be in… a retrospective journey for one, but yet they compete and distract. How did you cope?

Over 700 pages :astonished: I hope it’s chaptered and headed…

Apologies for the late reply… I’ve been taken up with gathering myself and my thoughts of late…

What were you doing there Tom? :smiley:

From that article, it seems that Saints are simply different/stand out, but that’s what I got out of it. What did you glean from the words?

A re-introduction to self has a familiar ring to it. In the early years … after my watershed moment … a look at my former self revealed that my former self was not my true self. The demands of society/culture pounded some of my true self into oblivion. Since that time my true self has percolated to the surface.

At times … too many to count … coping was a serious struggle. Eventually the following strategies took hold …

  1. Surrender

  2. Wu Wei

Does that suggest you haven’t read all my babble yet? :open_mouth:

Happy to learn you are making some progress.

Can’t remember the details but Youtube/Google algorithms triggered the visit … first to the movie and later the article.

Every once in a while Guiseppe …the reluctant saint … talks to me … or I talk to him. :slight_smile:

Happens when I’m reluctant to feed my wife’s geese, chickens and ducks … 21 in total. I’m usually totally spent at the time from helping with my wife’s farming project.

Guess that means Guiseppe encourages me to be more thoughtful towards animals … kindness to animals must surely lead to an uptick in kindness to people … no?

…and now I have joined you in that percolation of true self… it’s a less-stressful self to be, and simply means taking a step back from society and once again observing rather than partaking, and only partake of life with those of a similar ilk or not partake at all… I simply cannot not afford to do that any more.

…once the decision is made, and wheels set in motion, coping isn’t a struggle anymore. The decision to please others at the expense of self has come to an abrupt end, for they are happy when we suffer discontent… my mother would be so pleased. :icon-rolleyes:

If you only hang out with people of “a similar ilk”, then you don’t grow.

One becomes better by being challenged.

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Reminds me of John Lennon … the community he sings about is growing steadily … one individual at a time … in their own way … on their own terms … at the appropriate time.

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Cave dwellers, desert fathers, the monastic culture were born of the same sentiment. Some people lament at the decline of church and monastic patrons … I see it as positive. The institutional church continues to fulfill it’s role and “death” is a part of the process … the last phase. As Augustine said … each successive word we utter must die to make room for the next word.

The “death” of the institutional church has created empty space as a womb for the next paradigm. For the past several centuries secular institutions filled this space … though they have chosen to play the same game … expecting a different result … ergo Thucydides “The strong will do as they wish and the weak will suffer as they must.”

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Ah yes … the “decision” … the mysterious inflection point … a decision so many contemplate … a decision so few make. NT “many are invited … few are chosen.”

I like Augustine’s metaphor …

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I watched a documentary on part of the life of Ste Teresa of Avila … yesterday was her Feast Day.

youtube.com/watch?v=A9xJe_aabaI

Seems it took her 20+ years to reach the deflection point … and she wrestled with church leaders all along the way … she wanted to “wake up” and church leaders wanted her to go back to sleep.

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Anything less would be suicidal.

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Your comment triggers … at least in me … a torrent of empathy and compassion. Like so many others your mother lived a life conscious of her misery yet without the blessing associated with “waking up”.

If you “wake up” you will feel differently … and feel much better.

Wake up to what? Wake up how? :sleeping-sleeping:

Maybe THIS is my true self. Why not? O:)

Why should weakness be strength? Don’t you know that weakness is already weakness and that sterngth is already strength?