Paradox of vu

The unsensed versus the sensed. When the two come together as a collision of the “chaotic infinity” versus the internal conscious space. The “chaotic infinity” being the unsensed - an infinity of potentially “sensible” and “not sensible” impressions from the ultimate reality. When something “sensible” already exists as a part of our conscious space and some new sensible impression is plucked from the “chaotic infinity” a collision happens. Something magnetic; something resonating and when these two impressions overlap a “sense paradox” happens. This “sense paradox” presents itself in the form of a strong feeling.

That feeling people describe when they find their soulmate. That feeling of Déjà vu. Experiences of feelings discussed in this thread . . . I am not sure how far this can be extended but I imagine quite a way.

encode_decode … seems the scope of your OP is sprouting like mushrooms … today your choice of “vu” rather than “déjà vu” in the title seems prescient. Déjà vu is a tiny piece of the puzzle.

Amorphos … with the introduction of the word “imprint” has created a certain resonance with the French word “vu” … exploding the scope of your OP … for me … in a positive direction.

You wrote:

… maybe “its” imprint gets washed away over time struck a chord with me … for me though … I think the opposite is sometimes true. Seems to me any repetition of a specific “imprint” increases the longevity of the “imprint”.

The above thought prompted me to post George Sand’s comments … I’ll repeat them here for ease of reference:

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[/b]

The “imprint” George Sand describes … mid 19th century France … seems not only to have survived the past 175 years or so as a “vu” (imprint) … it seems to have hardened … as in become permanent … in human consciousness.

Any thoughts?

Maybe we have a “paradox of the social sensed” or “social vu”.

I really like it - I hope you don’t mind I will work it into an example as follows - just for the visual impact:

Even after something dies it has left its impact on the fabric of reality. Like a footprint in the sand. Maybe “its” imprint gets washed away over time but its impact would still remain diluted among the fabric of reality.

Conversely it > Seems to me any repetition of a specific “imprint” increases the longevity of the “imprint” < upon the fabric of reality.

Anything or everything that is alive is constantly modifying and reinforcing “imprints” among the fabric of reality. Like a tree that branches but it’s general leafness stays the same.

I do have some thoughts on this for example, some things would have changed but most would have stayed the same. As per the quote of George Sand’s it seems that it does resemble the modern day in a few ways; where the palaces are even more numerous as well as more diverse*; the people still envy the rich**; the wealth is still in a few men’s hands; avarice, immorality, and ineptness remains***;

  • by this I mean the old palaces are still there but new palaces have arisen like palaces of corporation.
    ** Even at the expense of there own happiness.
    *** People want everything the easy way these days. Sometimes they will break the law to achieve it.

In some ways it seems we have reached a cultural and spiritual entropy by keeping specific “imprints” strong. Hence a paradox.

:banana-dance:

Enter the new banana republics - makes you wonder that is for sure.

:-k

I also think emotions warrant some thought given that mental processes are essential to forming any given emotion in the first place.

We have been talking about strong feelings - these feelings could lead to emotions that are in themselves strange.

:-k

I guess you could say anything is up for analyses. Anyway I am just spraying my thoughts around here as someone else I know puts it.

:laughing:

encode_decode … spraying thoughts … like scattering seeds … has merit.

Yet … the ‘spraying’ is a two edged sword.

How so?

In spraying additional thoughts you distract readers from the ‘beauty’ of your previous post … and that wasn’t your intent … was it?

Oh I don’t know . . . I think it has merit . . .

I guess I am used to going through the posts that I haven’t read but I see what you mean in that a lot of people just read the first and last post in a thread.

I like the duality you present with the double edge sword. But then again it is all one in the same when considering totality.

Take emotions alongside “social vu” - “social e vu” or “social emotional vu” or “social e sense” or “social emotional sense” . . . it could be a part of conscious . . .

When one person is down they tend to bring another person down and when one person is up they tend to bring another person up. You can see this on the mass scale too with the sophism politicians bring to the equation when they speak - thereby making the people feel the upwardness of happiness(albeit temporary) when in fact they have brought the fabric down(not all the way); bringing the fabric down with just enough force to leave a negative impact that they were unaware might happen. Leaving an awkward situation in the wake of nontruths.

If people want honest governments then people have to be honest themselves. The way things are now is just that people do not know what to do so they internalize their actions to become self centered instead of selfless.

So as you say:

Indeed it has merit - as do you - thank you for the compliment on the other post - most of all thank you for making me think - I think you may have brought my ego down a couple of notches which I am most happy about.

PS: Just in case I give you the wrong impression; I will say this now; I am not offended. I can not imagine being offended by you pilgrim-seeker_tom.

:smiley:

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Perhaps progress … progress as in higher consciousness … progress as in deeper wisdom … is conditional on putting one’s ego in one’s pocket … if only temporarily.

Reminds me of some thoughts we exchanged recently … discrete frames of consciousness … the birth/death dance … the constipation in the absence of the dance.

I’'ll get back to you on your Lao Tzu quote later … I’m washing the dishes at the moment. :laughing:

The philosophers stone is that ‘which can become anything’ ~ like the empty oneness at the beginnings of all things. as above so below is a contemplation upon its mirror-like aspectation [reflection is akin to duality].

That I would say is what happens to the present, where each moment is washed away. I don’t suppose there would be a beach they all end up at, like a place of all moments. Some eastern scholars suggest each and every moment is an eternity. On the other hand, I also like the notion that everything changes and nothing is permanent [also a kind of eternal, like it just keeps rolling along or something] ~ as you suggest.

yes, then perhaps it is so that we become more real the greater the duration of said repetition which elapses. Like how infant to child to adult is that happening. Especially noticeable is the lack of memory we have respective to that duration, like when we are babies.

Awesome pilgrim-seeker_tom. I think we have the metaphorical cogs ticking over in the mind.

I believe so.

Now that you mention it - it seems to fit in well. It made me smile when I read this.

I was adding this quote for intensity - I find connections between it and what we are talking about - in oneness and twoness. But much more - I think we have known the truth for many thousands of years but most of us have chosen to ignore it and make up fantasies to justify actions.

So when dissecting the duality to make it one again - or more wholesome - we have so much rubbish to sift through - even tricks of our own mind. But I like to think we are on the right track.

:laughing:

Enjoy the dishes.

Amorphos

I can totally appreciate that. Thank you.

This makes me scratch the thinking chin. Again thanks. I wonder if each moment is indeed permanent but because moments flow into the past they become watered down for us and thus their impact is less felt over time except for the moments that keep getting brought forward - here you are inspiring thought for me to fix a conjecture that I have.

Awesome. Makes me think - expect I will be getting back to you on this one after much thought.

:-k

I like to describe the future as a blank page full of potential.

Though, with today’s technology, a serious thinker must include extinction as part of such potential … for the first time in human history … excluding of course extinction as a result of cosmic activity. The extinction I refer to is man invoked.

Prophetic words Amorphos?

Isn’t the “Global Village” … in a non literal sense … a beach of sorts where all of humanity is headed.

Again … for the first time in human history … mankind is nearing this reality … excluding of course the story of Noah’s Ark. :slight_smile:

Perhaps lack of memory recall … does memory ever really disappear … the Deja Vu thang :slight_smile:

encode_decode

:-k Yes, I would certainly agree that emotions warrant some thought ~ I’d say a lot of thought. Observing them and reflecting on them in the moment is important.
As for the latter part of that, I may be wrong but it seems to me that our mental processes do not form any given emotion in the first place. Well, perhaps I am partly incorrect about that. Our negative thought processes can lead us to have negative emotions.
But also and at other times, first come the emotions, which we sometimes think come out of nowhere but definitely do not.
I think the two are interchangeable.

Do you see a distinction between “strong feelings” and emotions? What is the distinction to you? Is there a difference?

Probably and isn’t that so cool:

Hopefully they won’t have to be neutralized like the skunk’s. :evilfun:

:character-jestercolor:

Indeed I do see a distinction - when one feels one is correct and indeed they are correct and they can feel it but there is no emotion attached - feelings are like senses but are synthesized internally of the mind. The extra feeling that comes with Déjà vu is not familiarity alone but a composite feeling and can have no emotion attached. I think the last two questions are like the first except to say of the last one; yes there is a difference.

From google search[define feeling]:

noun: feeling; plural noun: feelings

1. an emotional state or reaction.
"a feeling of joy"
synonyms:	love, care, affection, fondness, tenderness, warmth, warmness, emotion, sentiment; 

More
passion, ardour, desire, lust, infatuation; adulation, adoration, reverence, devotion
“he was amazed at the strength of her feeling”

compassion, sympathy, empathy, fellow feeling, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, tender-heartedness, tenderness, love, brotherly love; pity, sorrow, commiseration, condolences
"Emma felt a rush of feeling for the poor child"

    the emotional side of someone's character; emotional responses or tendencies to respond.
    "I don't want to hurt her feelings"
    synonyms:	sensibilities, sensitivities, self-esteem, ego, pride; 

More

    emotions, passions, sentiments
    "he hadn't meant to hurt her feelings"

    strong emotion.
    "‘God bless you!’ she said with feeling"

2. an idea or belief, especially a vague or irrational one.
"he had the feeling that he was being watched"
synonyms: suspicion, sneaking suspicion, notion, inkling, hunch, fancy, apprehension, presentiment, premonition, foreboding; idea, vague idea, impression; informal gut feeling, feeling in one's bones, funny feeling, sixth sense
"I had a feeling that I would win"

adjective

  1. showing emotion or sensitivity.
    “she was a feeling child”
    synonyms: sensitive, warm, warm-hearted, tender, tender-hearted, caring, soft-hearted, sympathetic, compassionate, understanding, empathetic, responsive, receptive, intuitive, thoughtful; emotional, demonstrative, passionate, fiery; archaic sensible
    “he considers himself to be a feeling man”

The second definition in particular is of interest here.

What about when you are feeling the cool temperature of the water?

When we no longer use the conjugation we end up with the word feel. google search[define feel]: for an interesting result.

Yes

I think that is very cool.

I imagine the Paradox of the sensed(vu) to be like an analogy of stepping out of a shadow - normally our mind and memory flow with the shadow that is the brain substrate but occasionally we seem to step out of the shadow and see our own shadow. This disparate effect that seems to temporarily throw us out of alignment with perceived reality could be an effect of some deeper process at hand. Paradoxes must exist as some means to reinforce our own concept of reality/time/memory.

:-k

encode_decode"]

:chores-chopwood:

One of my favorite smilies> Can you sense why?

Actually, I may just have been wrong in the way in which I worded that. “Strong feelings” are a part of “emotions” ~~ emotions are just categorized differently. For instance, love, hate, rage, joy, fear, relief, sorrow, et cetera.

Feeling are not necessarily based in truth or evidence. I suppose what you are saying though is that when one discovers that he/she was right, there can be detachment.

I do not know what “extra” feeling you’re speaking about here but wouldn’t you say that there has to be, by necessity, some kind of emotion or feelings attached ~~ to something which is usually rare and of a different kind?

I love words too. My “almost” favorite subject in school was English. :mrgreen:

The second definition being the below:

  1. an idea or belief, especially a vague or irrational one.

I may not be understanding what you’re saying here but a “feeling” itself is not an idea or a belief but may rise up because of an idea or belief.

But that’s a physical feeling as opposed to an emotional one although they rise up from the same place…the brain.
As far as your example goes, at least for me, the answer to that one would depend on how hot or cold it is.

I don’t understand this. Will you please decode it for me. What does conjugating “to feel” have to do with it?
It’s probably just my brain at the moment.

This is also one of those times when a strength can be a weakness and visa versa. I sometimes try to analyse things too much. I can be like a dog with a bone. lol
One needs to know when to let go of that bone. :laughing:

Arcturus Descending

:laughing:

I will answer you properly later but I just want to say how cheery your last message made me feel. Not that I was feeling down just that you provided me with a giggle or two.

Thank you so much.

=D>

…and THAT is what makes the world go round and round. :angelic-blueglow:

We’ll have to work on multiplying those giggles though.
Laughing is just as good for clearing the body/mind of toxins as is crying albeit you did say that you were not feeling down.

TICKLE TICKLE.jpg

Mind you ~~ I am not trying to be forward here. :laughing:

@ Arcturus Descending - now back to that post.

MMM, I might have to think a little harder to get an answer to you. Is it that you want to split my brain in two maybe? Make me consider new things. Is it maybe that you want to cut my thread up? Lol - I have never been good at these games.

#-o

I see what you mean. Wikipedia has the following to say:

I guess what I was saying is the other way around.

The first sentence I agree with. In the second sentence - I agree - I have personally had that feeling of detachment.

Hence the paradox - familiarity is not Déjà vu - I also meant ‘no change in ones emotional state’ - The sense is like a super ‘familiarity’ - so the composite being ‘familiarity’ and ‘detachment from reality’. I hope that makes some sense.

Srtangely eonugh - English was the subject that I did the least well in. Lol.

Let me get back to you on that.

A good point regarding whether it is hot or cold.

You have a good sense of humour, re ‘decode’. I was merely referring to the slight differences between the words feel and feeling.

I like the reference to: strength can be a weakness and visa versa. I think we all analyse things too much sometimes. I am yet to learn when to let go of that bone.

:laughing:

encode_decode

By MMM, did you mean HMM? :laughing:

Hahaha ~ split your brain in two? Perish the thought. Now why would I want to do that? No.
You mean “derail” your thread? No.
Actually, the smilie is more of a mandate or a reminder to me.

I also think that sometimes we aren’t able to figure out what brought us to particular mood. They are more subtle than particular emotions, I think.

As to MY last statement above, I’m not so sure now that i am even correct, in a sense that is. What I mean is that when one comes to discover that he/she is right, what need is there for detachment. Ego has been satisfied. If that even made sense to you. #-o

But how can there be deja vu without that sense of "familiarity ~~ which I mean by the below definition?
Are you saying that deja vu is devoid of a sense of familiarity?

fa·mil·iar·i·ty
fəˌmilyˈerədē/
noun
close acquaintance with or knowledge of something.

synonyms: acquaintance with, awareness of, experience with/of, insight into, knowledge of, understanding of, comprehension of, grasp of, skill in, proficiency in

:blush: No, it didn’t make sense to me but perhaps that’s just part of the workings of my brain. lol
Hmm, I guess the question would have to be asked: "Can the experience of deja vu be considered to be “a detachment from reality”?
Can reality be considered to be ONLY consciousness in the present moment. I don’t think I expressed that in a way that would give you clarity.
But wouldn’t there have to be a sense in one’s emotional state also? I mean deja vu is not a natural, customary-occurring experience.

Why would that be so strange? :evilfun: I’m just teasing you here but the question does have some validity, doesn’t it? hahaha

Well, I suppose maybe if we were to use the word “feeling” to express an intuition, which is kind of a “gut” feeling, we might say that a feeling is an idea. A scientist has an idea of something. Can that also be expressed as a “feeling”? I too might have to also get back to you on that one. I think that some words are closely related but not quite the same.

Tell me again, if you will, why the username?

That’s me in a nutshell. :mrgreen:

I can certainly agree with this. If our hubris tells us that we have all the answers, or know the answer to this or that, then what need would there be to doubt and thereby seek to know what is “real”.

Actually, one could say “not much” depending on what one is speaking about.
If we use that statement in regard to the god question, where do we go from there?
"Perhaps knowing something in this instance is simply a lazy response or a fearful one, keeping us hanging within that cocoon.

Only that which has already been proven by others. But then again, haven’t some things which have already been proven, been disproved at some future date.
But what I do emphatically know is that i know very little and what I intuit is even far less than that. That keeps us humble.
:evilfun:

Arcturus Descending

Actually where I come from both can mean the same. Also MMM can be used to indicate interest and HMM can be used to indicate confusion. MMM is also used to say something is tasty. It all depends upon tone and body language/facial expression.

You are quite correct; in another thread is discussed where mood is more an indicator of an overall emotional state, I think.

As in the following:

- - - Detachment - - -

It makes sense - interestingly enough I am currently working on something called Paradoxical Confinement whereby paradoxes become a natural part of the universe and our own reality, maybe you will understand more of what I am talking about when I create a thread about my Confinement Philosophy.

Interesting. Déjà vu is indeed different to familiarity - I don’t remember saying that déjà vu happens without a sense of familiarity. Again my Confinement Philosophy might explain it better when I create a thread about it. For now lets just treat déjà vu as hyper-familiarity: familiarity with an extra dimension.

I see no problem with how your brain is working - what I see is curiosity at work - I see we may have some sort of semantic paradox taking place. Yes déjà vu can be considered “a detachment from reality” as in two different reality dimensions connecting. Yes reality can be considered to be only consciousness in the present moment - there is also a pretty major problem with time - déjà vu then would be part of a hyper-reality or sub-reality. If I read what you are saying correctly then you have expressed yourself very clearly.

I do not think we can prove that déjà vu is unnatural.

I would say it is rather strange given that now I often work in Natural Language Processing(NLP) - using linguistics, philosophy, mathematics and other tools to help me perform my tasks at hand. So your question becomes quite valid given that “Srtangely eonugh - English was the subject that I did the least well in. Lol.”

Yes to intuit, a premonition, sense among other things and these are each synonymous with feeling. Yes an idea can indeed be expressed as a feeling and not only are some words closely related but “same” most often becomes relative.

encode_decode simply means yin yang - the underscore is a blank or a hidden layer - the hidden layer is the language of the neural patterns - you take in information from your senses which is then encoded into the language that your neurons speak - that language is processed by your neurons and the resulting thought is that of decoding back to a natural language which in our case is English.
Regarding: Pride is the major blocker to knowledge. I should have said it is but one blocker - there also exists other psychological blockers as well as chemical and electrical blockers - there are other blockers too as discussed in Confinement Philosophy - there are many blockers too numerous to mention.

Re-Regarding: Pride is the major blocker to knowledge.

Indeed. I do however believe in a healthy amount of self-confidence.

Regarding: What is there to be achieved in saying “I do not believe… I know”…

Deep stuff . . . “Actually, one could say “not much” depending on what one is speaking about.”; I could not have put that better myself. I decided a long time ago not to dismiss the GOD question - who/what/where is GOD is something I can not prove to be true/false and there may be some things we are not meant to answer or have an answer too - it could be the death of us - I see many hints of a higher power - I keep exploring the hints - that is where I go from there. Well the cocoon is something we have to put up with because we can not leave existence while we are here and I am not sure death takes you there - I guess we may have to wait and see.

Regarding: and what is it that you Know?

Can we really say anyone has proven anything with out a reasonable doubt - I have my doubts about nearly everything - I have an idea that all we have done is stumble upon information systems that kind of work for us - to what we perceive as fairly accurate - but you can only have faith that an electron microscope is telling the truth despite its usefulness to name but one example. Knowing that our perceptions live in and on past information keeps me humble. Knowing that free will and destiny live side by side gives me an idea that reality is all about paradoxes. Modesty is the easiest of things to find if one cares to admit it.

Don’t be too sure that what you intuit is less than what you know.

:smiley:

A taste of my philosophy:

Clearly we are in a state of confinement whether it be for better or for worse. We exist in the captivity of our own mind limited by space, scope and time.

:-k