What are you doing?

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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Pandora » Tue Apr 11, 2017 6:40 am

United Airlines has always treated its passengers like cattle, but I guess you get what you pay for. :-?

United Airlines new commercials: 8-[

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntf05SPWWJM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ4WcR36GgM
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Kriswest » Tue Apr 11, 2017 10:22 am

Yea but, how many of us actually read the tickets we buy? The fine print is more often than not, ignored. I think I would rather take a train or drive. Buses can be pretty nasty as well.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby MagsJ » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:28 am

Arcturus Descending wrote:
MagsJ wrote:...too many things.. too few things.. not enough.. too much. What kind of place is this...


Hi :evilfun:

lol MagsJy, can you narrow that down a bit?

I am simply wallowing in my current state of misery.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Pandora » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:59 am

Kriswest wrote:Yea but, how many of us actually read the tickets we buy? The fine print is more often than not, ignored. I think I would rather take a train or drive. Buses can be pretty nasty as well.
Yeah, now I've read it. :lol: Rule 21 regarding refusal to transport does not actually include anything that would fall under this situation, that is, to make space for UA employees:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/conten ... riage.aspx
And this was not an overbooking situation, either. However, reading about this "doctor's" history, I wonder if the computer algorithm also might have included previous felonies, because apparently this doctor is no angel, either. :-k http://nypost.com/2017/04/11/doctor-dra ... s-for-sex/
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby WendyDarling » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:05 am

Being a terror! :evilfun: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Kriswest » Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:59 pm

Pandora wrote:
Kriswest wrote:Yea but, how many of us actually read the tickets we buy? The fine print is more often than not, ignored. I think I would rather take a train or drive. Buses can be pretty nasty as well.
Yeah, now I've read it. :lol: Rule 21 regarding refusal to transport does not actually include anything that would fall under this situation, that is, to make space for UA employees:
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/conten ... riage.aspx
And this was not an overbooking situation, either. However, reading about this "doctor's" history, I wonder if the computer algorithm also might have included previous felonies, because apparently this doctor is no angel, either. :-k http://nypost.com/2017/04/11/doctor-dra ... s-for-sex/

I dunno this section of 21 could apply look at the assets and cost them money part.

Any Passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, consents and acknowledges that he or she shall reimburse UA for any such loss, damage or expense. UA has the right to refuse transport, on a permanent basis, to any passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, or who has been disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent. In addition, the activities enumerated in H) 1) through 8) shall constitute a material breach of contract, for which UA shall be excused from performing its obligations under this contract.
UA is not liable for its refusal to transport any passenger or for its removal of any passenger in accordance with this Rule. A Passenger who is removed or refused transportation in accordance with this Rule may be eligible for a refund upon request. See Rule 27 A). As an express precondition to issuance of any refund, UA shall not be responsible for damages of any kind whatsoever. The passenger’s sole and exclusive remedy shall be Rule 27 A).


And well probably the Doc did give it a hiccup.:)
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Pandora » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:44 pm

I think this would boil down as to whether freeing up your seat for an employee would be considered a reasonable request by the company, because otherwise, an airline would be able to make arbitrary requests of its passengers and cite this rule in justification (by refusing to take off unless the request was executed thus actually indirectly causing loss of business to itself).
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Carleas » Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:19 pm

Wow, I'm surprised this agreement doesn't cover a situation like this more clearly.

If they hadn't already boarded him, this would still probably be an "Oversold Flight":
Oversold Flight means a flight where there are more Passengers holding valid confirmed Tickets that check-in for the flight within the prescribed check-in time than there are available seats.

Since a seat that is needed for United employees would not be an 'available seat', they could deny boarding involuntarily on the grounds the the flight is oversold.

But the only right they have is to "deny boarding", a term that I don't see further defined. Clearly, this doctor wasn't denied boarding, he's sitting on the plane, he's been boarded. Beyond that, they may be able to change his seat (it isn't clear if 4(D) applies after boarding), but I wouldn't read that to increase the scope of the right to deny boarding, or to revoke boarding once it's been granted.

Thanks for linking, Pandora. I just assumed that the agreement would be maximally airline-friendly, but I think this gives the doctor a pretty strong case that United did not have the right under the contract to remove him from the plane.

I'm a little bewildered by the reporting on the doctor's history, it seems entirely irrelevant to the interpretation of the contract between him and United.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Pandora » Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:23 pm

Carleas wrote:I'm a little bewildered by the reporting on the doctor's history, it seems entirely irrelevant to the interpretation of the contract between him and United.
The reason I brought it up is because someone mentioned of an incident which supposedly happened some years ago with the airline (It is not verified and needs to be confirmed but it does raise some interesting questions). Some years back, UA needed to get a certain passenger off the plane because he had some problems with the law (I do not know specifics) so the airline, unbeknownst to the rest of the people at the time, decided to have an "overbooking" situation in order to get him off the plane, which it did. The flight was not technically "overbooked" as well, so one may think that the "overbooking" situation is used by airline for other reasons. In that particular case it was supposedly done for safety and security reasons. So, I am wondering if the computer algorithm which selects at random, is not all that random after all. Dr. Dao had six previous felony charges so could it be that the airline was aware of his criminal history before hand and it had something to do with random selection? (this could also bring the safety and security issue into play as justification)
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Kriswest » Sat Apr 15, 2017 12:12 am

To know that we would have to know how often he has flown on that airline or others.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Carleas » Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:13 pm

United has not claimed that its passenger management was commandeered by the police in order to apprehend a passenger. That seems like it would an affirmative defense to their breach of contract (i.e., yes they broke their promise to Dao, but it was OK because the police made them do it).

Moreover, since the police were called anyway, and had to physically subdue and remove him anyway, it doesn't seem likely that that's what happened.

Kris, I don't follow. Can you plug in some arbitrary values to help me follow? What's the significance of him having flown zero times? A thousand?
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Kriswest » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:34 am

That was in reference to Pandora's comment about their computer picking him out due to his felonies. I presume the largest airlines all use the same program or similar ones. United is not the only airline that purposely overlooks or boots people off due to overbooking. They just have had no loud complaints yet.
I will be bitchy, cranky, sweet, happy, kind, pain in the ass all at random times from now on. I am embracing my mentalpause until further notice. Viva lack of total control!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is not a test,,, this is my life right now. Have a good day and please buckle up for safety reasons,, All those in high chairs, go in the back of the room.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:07 am

So I tried the impersonal philosophizing approach and that was more painful than a root canal in the olden days. :-? That's not gonna happen again anytime soon. =;
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby gib » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:19 am

WendyDarling wrote:So I tried the impersonal philosophizing approach and that was more painful than a root canal in the olden days. :-? That's not gonna happen again anytime soon. =;


Let's see this valiant attempt at impersonal philosophizing, Wendy (I assume it's online).
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It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:42 am

I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby WendyDarling » Fri Apr 21, 2017 5:22 am

Crap giblib. After rereading my activities in that thread, I did crack once, but only once until I was targeted as just another...honey. :mrgreen: It's difficult to be a bland, run-of-the-mill honey.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby gib » Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:43 am

WendyDarling wrote:Crap giblib. After rereading my activities in that thread, I did crack once, but only once until I was targeted as just another...honey. :mrgreen: It's difficult to be a bland, run-of-the-mill honey.


Wendy, from what I read it seems like Anderson was the one who cracked--you seemed to keep your cool--but I do have to hand it to Mr. Anderson, he kept his cool for a good long while at least.

I didn't see anything wrong with your style of argumentation or its content, but it did seem you couldn't muster up the passion to go into depth about your thoughts and feelings on the subject. To me, your attempts at keeping cool (or impersonal, I guess you'd say) seem to throw out the baby with the bath water--to suppress the passion but at the cost of the inspiration to say what you want to say--like being overwhelmed with the feeling of "why bother". <-- Would you say this is in the ball park?
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:03 am

Bingo! Tedium through and through.
Last edited by WendyDarling on Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Apr 22, 2017 1:12 am

You are #1 honey. Maiden is #2.
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby gib » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:12 am

WendyDarling wrote:Bingo! Tedium through and through.


Well, that's good news. It means tedium is all you have to wade through... that is, if you really wanna try this "dispassionate" thing (which, in my experience, isn't really a matter of dispassion, but knowing where to channel your passion).

You could try this:

Just write one paragraph. 4 or 5 sentences max. Try it in a moment where you have that "why bother" feeling, but plow ahead anyway. Dissect your thoughts, figure out the best way to express your feelings, structure your words in a relatively coherent/logical way--and take your time, hit "preview" more than once--there's no rush. You know you can do it because tedium never stopped anyone. It can be done.

The least you'll get out of it is a sample of what you can do, a measure of how well you can perform even without the passion. And if you like it, if it exceeds your expectations, that can be reinforcing. Reinforcement in turn can attach passion to that which would otherwise be devoid of passion--indirectly at first, of course--but after a while, you can start having fun with it. And fun is an awesome passion to be motivated by--it yields the best products.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby WendyDarling » Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:30 am

gibgob
The least you'll get out of it is a sample of what you can do, a measure of how well you can perform even without the passion.

This may become reasonable once the trauma subsides. Thanks for your suggestion. :happy-smileyflower:
I AM OFFICIALLY IN HELL!

I live my philosophy, it's personal to me and people who engage where I live establish an unspoken dynamic, a relationship of sorts, with me and my philosophy.

Cutting folks for sport is a reality for the poor in spirit. I myself only cut the poor in spirit on Tues., Thurs., and every other Sat.
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:59 pm

Maybe you should leave thinking to men and be a good girl instead.
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
-- Mr. Reasonable
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby gib » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:14 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:Maybe you should leave thinking to men and be a good girl instead.


You too.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby Magnus Anderson » Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:17 pm

Thinking is the antonym of tedium to me.
I got a philosophy degree, I'm not upset that I can't find work as a philosopher. It was my decision, and I knew that it wasn't a money making degree, so I get money elsewhere.
-- Mr. Reasonable
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Re: What are you doing?

Postby gib » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:00 pm

Magnus Anderson wrote:Thinking is the antonym of tedium to me.


Well, they can both be done at the same time. It just isn't as fun. That was my point to Wendy.
My thoughts | My art | My music | My poetry

It is impossible for a human being to go through life not thinking irrationally even if they think of themselves as rational
Also just as irrational decisions are not always bad then rational ones are not always good no matter what the intention
- surreptitious75

The rating of rationality can be higher and always is higher than the person trying to be rational. Rationality is less emotional than the person delivering it.
- encode_decode

Is that a demon slug in your stomach or are you just happy to see me?
- Rick Sanchez
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gib
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