Drugs & Weed & Ketamine

R you sure its delusion? I believe in telepathy. I mean the last bit could be partly real? Maybe drugs like they unfilter, they both allow for delusions and super-truths, and supertruth and delusion mix, and they become a trip which is a bad trip often.
But telepathic fears seem really common. Maybe it is all delusional. I cant tell for sure. Who can?
I definitely believe in telepathy though. I dont think our thoughts are exactly leadlined.
Now elon musk is developing telepathic machines and apps, which work telepathically on the brain, so… the brain is telepathic, potentially. Otherwise Elon Musk couldnt make money off it.

But this sounds like a very cozy trip. In the car, was it raining? I hope so that would be nice.
Yes we can slow down the heartbeat by breathing very slow. I can do kung fu quite well and we need to slow the heart in combat.
When I was in the deepest training I smoked a joint once with a dude and he said later that night that he hadn’t seen me breathe once.
it was because I was using taostic breath, like one breath a minute.

Unfortunately that seems pretty real to me possibly, like The Real, from Lacan.
And also Schelling says this about primordial chaos of drives which ends its pain by becoming the universe.

Thanks gib. These were great stories.

For me, there is no difference between truth and delusion, only permanent truth and temporary truth.

You mean like a device you strap on your head to receive a remote signal?

Geez, I can’t hold my breath for more than 30 seconds.

Yeah, I don’t know what to think of it. I guess we must go through life never really knowing the answers to these things. We find out when we die.

Glad you liked them.

Just seems like most people think there’s more to it than there is.

Care to elaborate on what that may be?

Nah.

We appear to have perceptions and creations, that is all. Perceptions: senses - sight, sound etc. Creations: ideas, mental visualisations, interpretations. What else? What ‘truth’ do we have? How does one know oneself to be delusional? ‘knowledge’ seems to be delusion to me. My perceptions do not strike me as accurate messengers of reality, more diagramatic representations of reality (like an elaborate form of the little bleepy LED screen in the submarine that shows the missile approaching) designed by evolutionary forces to manipulate my mind to serve the survival of the ever more sophisticated machine-like DNA. Spirit serving seemingly non-conscious matter, in essence an unthinkably elaborate rock that engineers reward and suffering to achieve it’s ever increasing sophistication and power to do more of the same … :open_mouth: Hello, beastie. Cows like eating grass, hawks like eating meat but not grass - it’s not that grass tastes bad and cows are just stupid to eat it, it’s that the senses portray life to the mind as is most befitting the survival interests of the DNA - in reality I doubt grass is either tasty or not. In fact I think the taste exists only in the mind… what is the sound of a tree falling in the rainforest with no-one to hear it? Perhaps the experience itself is a truth if not one revealing of any truth other than itself, but even that is supposition and therefore less than certain. Beyond the contorted mirror of reality that is your senses are your creations, which seem to be error prone. Perhaps the most common mistake of youth is to suppose knowledge or trust value judgements with naive assurance and meet with suffering if not tragedy as a consequence. I did, most I know did. Open your eyes, gamble wisely, forsake your knowledge. Maybe you should listen more? Something worth hearing might be being spoken

…Glad you know your stuff. In this case seemingly that ‘it’s a small affair’. I could challenge the assertion, but underestimation, lack of accurate impressions and the such appear to result in suffering, which makes a more compelling point than little I ever could. Let’s hope you’re right… If not I guess it’ll turn you around or obliterate you for your refusal. If it’s broke fix it, if you can’t fix it, chuck it. OK. ‘be-cause’. ‘dis-ease’. It’s so funny the way we speak without seeming to realise what we are saying, or even that we are saying it. Planet earth. ‘Earth’. Billions of years of Dead things. Dance on a grave? All the dancing we do is on graves. The winners write the rule books, the ground was once a trillion trillion trillion stories, but those appear to have been swallowed by the sands of time… Consumption is the transformation of other’s order into yours via the destruction of theirs. Order feeds on chaos.

I think delusion is indeed a temporary form of truth - it appears to be self-extinguishing (shudder…). Yet ‘delusion’ refers to inaccurate reflections or misleading ‘sign-posting’, doesn’t it? The un-truth is real, but it’s claim is false. An accurate mirror is not what it reflects, but it may still give a truthful impression. I think we ought to distinguish between truth and delusion rather than confuse the matter…

Let’s accept an argument, for the sake of discussion: Some mind-altering molecules can induce a valuable experience (perhaps recreational, perhaps self-transformational, like healing or personal growth and development) without ill effect providing appropriate and mature handling. How would we go about transforming a hysterical and oppositional society into one that was basically less mentally ill, and instead prepared to respect such a technology and honour it’s demand for maturity and best-practice?

Are you suggesting I don’t be afraid of the voices? Try going through it yourself and then tell me to listen.

I choose my delusions wisely–as wisely as I can–not every one that invades my mind is healthy.

I think we ought to recognize which truths we have to live with and which can be entertained for only a few hours.

Just watched the news ,900kg ice bust (was headed for Melbourne). Talk on everybody’s lips: must we accept Australia has a drug problem?

Age 15, huddled on my floor in the fetal position, I needed to run and hide so badly in either case. The angel whispered as quietly as she could, but being the size of a galaxy her voice was overwhelming none-the-less. I blocked it out. Maybe I was crazy, maybe not.

It’s some powerful shit, I respect that. I’m saying choice sounds like a good idea, and should be treated as such, not a certainty. Maybe you were deluded and better off disregarding the voices (sounds like a plan), or maybe you tapped the deeper self, or another schism of the consciousness we call ‘someone else’… you/I/we don’t know, but why not remain open to the idea? Close a door for sure, take it easy and keep it simple, cool. But keep the key, you might want to open it another day. But yeah I’d suggest not being afraid - positivety (what you like) heals and strengthens, negativety (what you don’t) has the opposite effect. Fear sounds like the bringer of harm - how ironic. You may fear a bully, but the fear makes the bully. A=B=C, A=C. The fear is the bully. To understand this can destroy fear. To go on holiday may mean to have injections… it’s the price you pay, but it’s worth it. Accept it, get as much of ‘the good stuff’ (what you like) as you can, the spike is part of that so it’s ok. Maybe one day you’ll want to listen to the voices… if it can be served to it’s satisfaction it may serve in kind. Dogs are good when they find it rewarding to be.

yeah, delusion is a real thing, it’s the relativity (in this case, inaccuracy) that defines it as such. All beneficial thoughts I’ve found.

Mutation changes DNA - if the change promotes survival the trait is likely to establish (aid the survival efforts, appear in offspring which enumerate and therefore making the trait abundant), whilst that which contradicts the survival effort is likely to eliminated. We generate ideas, if they hurt us we get rid of them, if they benefit us we incorporate them into our psyches. The more we confirm them the more we instil them, the more effortless and ingrained they become - it’s our nature. I found delusion (inaccurate certainty) hurtful time and time again, and open mindedness (coupled with sound decision making process) beneficial time and time again - since it works for me I try to give it away. People don’t reward quality, they reward service. Nobodies paying you to be great, they pay for services, and don’t part with their money otherwise (money = services, that is all…).

900kg of ice in Oz? That’s like a kg per person, right? I jest. It sounds like it could be a problem, yes.

That’s what it comes down to for me. A strong trip is an exercise in mind control, an opportunity to practice choosing what you want to believe. The scarier, the better.

I thought you were arguing for ignoring the voices? I can believe that ultimately the negative (hear defined as what you don’t like) is ultimately good, but I’m going to keep things simple and avoid it in favour of what I find pleasing. No more salvia for me!

I was arguing for deciding when I’ve had too much. It was intense, and I didn’t want to go insane and start doing stupid shit.

Yes, salvia is a good test. It tests how keen you are at exploring alternate mind states just for their own sake, and not for any pleasure or “buzz” you might get from it (like with marijuana or cocaine). It’s definitely a very wild, jarring experience but without the pleasure. ← You definitely get to experience an altered mind state.

That being said, I wanted a chance to mention something about salvia (thank! :smiley:). The experience I had with the voices–their threatening to turn my entire world inside-out–well, with salvia, that actually happens. The good thing with salvia is it only lasts 5 minutes. So as jarring as the experience is, it’s over relatively quickly.

Yes that may be. I was warned about it , as it was legal, at least until I think that was reversed. But, the time thing I don’t know, Gib. My experience with stronger stuff was that time itself inverted and stretched to the conceivable limit, one minute felt like a day. So my mind learned slowly to groove on to reverse anticipating the end of it, because that increased the discomfort of waiting it to stop, while at the same time excluding the attempts to begin to accept a seeming sense of timelessness and begin to accept the imminent pleasurable feelings of going with it.

The store that sold it told me it may be criminalizes along with all the other substances out there, I don’t know its legality now.

Are you in the States? I this a federal law or state law? If state law, have all states band salvia? I don’t know if it’s legal or not here in Canada, but I do have a stash that I haven’t touched in ages. If you’re ever in Calgary, Alberta, contact me and I’ll give you some (that is, if you want to experience it again).

The timeless thing is interesting–it seems everyone’s story of their experiences with salvia is different. I read once a story of a man who did salvia and experienced (or so he said) several centuries of warfare as a knight in the middle ages. I once experienced myself as a child in a completely different family, but even that lasted less than a minute. In any case, the 5 minute thing is your saving grace. You can know going in, and remember coming out, that as timeless and jarring as timelessness may seem, it is just an illusion and will end soon enough.

I’ve done a lot of drugs myself honestly. It usually starts out for fun or something to alter perspective.

Ketamine is used as a fast acting pain killer for people who say, have a broken arm or whatever like that. It’s also recently been used to snap people out of suicidal depressions. I haven’t done ketamine but the people I know who have say it’s great until you accidentally do more than you need and end up in a k hole.

I have.

Can you describe the trip?
My friend said she lost her balance and kept falling down, but then there tends to be a lot of ice here where you can easily slip.

Yes, she’s right… it screws your balance up, it’s a sedative horse tranquilizer. It’s a lot like walking when drunk, stumbling and falling. But I do not suggest it, it’s dangerous…

the guy I got mine from for free as a sample or taster mixed mine with Coke, so I had kind of a bad trip on it… don’t ever mix psychedelics with short uppers that can give you a big come down… the come down will scare you shitless, it did with me.

No ice here, I was falling and stumbling, could barely walk in my own apartment… it was like a very minor acid trip, It was as if I microdosed and was on LSD, I saw very minimal visuals, like slight breathing walls, slight colors…

But Ketamine can be scary, if you go into a K-hole and do too much, it will paralyze you temporarily, like lucid dreaming sort of I think, it will not be as scary if you expect it… but remember, this is a sedative. If you ever wanna try psychedelics, try lsd, shrooms or dmt, they’re stronger, and more fun. You have more control and it isn’t dangerous in regards to body coordination.

Ketamine was fun, but the coke come down with it was not.